Written by [user id=136611] on 02.06.2014 at 07:20

good if he could have seen that post, how do you know when someone has put you on ignore anyway ?

Yeah it's in everyone's best interest to quote me as often as possible, just so I can hound deadcoward

Written by [user id=136611] on 02.06.2014 at 22:02

what i meant is how do you know someone has ignored you ? do you just start noticing they never respond to your posts or something ?

In deadone's case he had a strop on the To Mega Therion thread and outright said he was blocking me. Otherwise I don't think you can tell.

Not sure if he was trolling when he used LOCO by coal chamber to explain his point, since, well the guy raps on pretty much 60% of the whole song.

And for Spineshank, Well...I've relistened The Height Of Callousness that was probably their breakout album (had to put Floyd's The Division Bell on hold so...yeah....) just to refresh my memory: As I remembered, both New Disease and Synthetic, the singles for their album, both of them feature a Rap-based bridge between the Reffrain.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against Nu Metal, I love Deftones's first one and I hold Limp Bizkit's first two records as some of the best Mainstream Metal albums of those years. By any perspective and point of view, SoaD is as Nu Metal as Morbid Angel.

Written by deadone on 03.06.2014 at 02:10
Man I'm not hearing rap here. This isn't RATM or Limp Bizkit or Stuck Mojo.

That Coal Chamber album isn't really a good example of rap per se, but it definitely features elements of hip-hop, its parent genre, and is thus considered nu metal. The difference here is that System of a Down include (as stated before) a minimal amount of these elements at best and are better referred to as alternative metal since their primary focus isn't on melding metal and hip-hop.

Honestly, I think the issue lies with your inability to distinguish between the differences. Nu Metal is a relatively easy genre to pick out, both for its metal components and its hip-hop and funk ones. People here seem to be able to recognise the necessary Nu Metal elements in bands mentioned, particularly the clear rap components. There seems to be a pretty good consensus here that while Nu Metal bands have some inter-variation between themselves, that SoaD are quite far away from the establishes parameters that make up Nu Metal, but I guess you can't make people see what they apparently don't understand. There's also further room for discussion on the likes of Spineshank, Disturbed, Godsmack etc. who, perhaps like, SoaD, were lumped in with the Nu Metal crowd but perhaps wrongly so, but that's a topic for another thread.

What you're effectively arguing for is a total absorption of Nu Metal into the tropes of Alternative Metal by denying the specifics of Nu Metal's traits, or vice-versa might be more accurate in your case. You may as well deny the existence of Post-Grunge because of the existence of Grunge and in turn the identification of Grunge because it shares some traits of other subsets of Alternative metal.

Written by [user id=4365] on 03.06.2014 at 03:13
Honestly, I think the issue lies with your inability to distinguish between the differences. Nu Metal is a relatively easy genre to pick out, both for its metal components and its hip-hop and funk ones. People here seem to be able to recognise the necessary Nu Metal elements in bands mentioned, particularly the clear rap components. There seems to be a pretty good consensus here that while Nu Metal bands have some inter-variation between themselves, that SoaD are quite far away from the establishes parameters that make up Nu Metal, but I guess you can't make people see what they apparently don't understand. There's also further room for discussion on the likes of Spineshank, Disturbed, Godsmack etc. who, perhaps like, SoaD, were lumped in with the Nu Metal crowd but perhaps wrongly so, but that's a topic for another thread.

What you're effectively arguing for is a total absorption of Nu Metal into the tropes of Alternative Metal by denying the specifics of Nu Metal's traits, or vice-versa might be more accurate in your case. You may as well deny the existence of Post-Grunge because of the existence of Grunge and in turn the identification of Grunge because it shares some traits of other subsets of Alternative metal.

Quoting for truth and because I'm pretty sure deadone still has you ignored but can see nested posts.

Yeah he can

I see a lot of "at the time" comments from deadone, especially how he recognises Nu Metal eventually being regarded as a metal genre, just how we are trying to update SoaD's status with more a more modern and balanced perspective, but funnily enough with regard to SoaD he is belligerently relying on their status (entirely circumstantial status based on image and location btw) when they were first formed. Kind of a hypocritical argument there. Stretching the definitions of Nu Metal to incorporate SoaD instead of actually looking at SoaD is poor form in my opinion.

Having a cursory glance around it seems as though SoaD have more or less broken away from their Nu Metal classification. Sites like Wikipedia and RYM don't appear to make too much association with them and Nu Metal.

Actually we're focusing on SoaD and how they have virtually no characteristics in common with Nu Metal outside of their image. Precisely why the vague Alternative Metal subgenre is ideal for them because they tend to defy easy classification. Lumping them in with Nu Metal because that's how they were seen at the time is just lazy.

As I say: stretching the definitions of Nu Metal to fit SoaD. Modern "perspectives" would seem to agree that Alternative Metal suits them best, as we've attempted to illustrate.

Written by [user id=4365] on 03.06.2014 at 04:56
Actually we're focusing on SoaD and how they have virtually no characteristics in common with Nu Metal outside of their image. Precisely why the vague Alternative Metal subgenre is ideal for them because they tend to defy easy classification. Lumping them in with Nu Metal because that's how they were seen at the time is just lazy.

As I say: stretching the definitions of Nu Metal to fit SoaD. Modern "perspectives" would seem to agree that Alternative Metal suits them best, as we've attempted to illustrate.

Vicariously arguing through your comments again. You're saying more than what I could and doing a better job of stating your case but deadone can only see the quoted posts so... don't mind the notifs so long as you two have more to say in this thread.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.06.2014 at 04:59

Vicariously arguing through your comments again. You're saying more than what I could and doing a better job of stating your case but deadone can only see the quoted posts so... don't mind the notifs so long as you two have more to say in this thread.

It's cool. I suspect this will continue on with irrelevant history lessons from our friend. I think our points have been made and will eventually spiral into repetition at this rate. There's no "right" answer ultimately, but people can formulate their own thoughts using what's written here should they wish. I would encourage modern, balanced perspectives and an analytical mind rather than using history's shaky understanding of a burgeoning new wave of music, that relied too much on overzealous marketing, as the current day basis for a band's style. This is Dr. Hipster Joe's opinion.

Written by deadone on 03.06.2014 at 02:10

Man I'm not hearing rap here.

This is /thread for me. The rap component is crystal in that specific song, so yeah...it's you who dont want to listen, or maybe you cant make a clear distinction

Not to be off topic or anything but I really want a new album from these guys. Im not a huge fan of the side projects. I want System of a down.

There is no point in doing such. The lyrical structure of the song is Rap, plain and simple. The fact that you dont hear any rap there serves as an answer to your whole argument "Nu metal has little hiphop elements". Like JOE said, the problem is you being unable to identify those same elements, thus they arent present in those specific songs.

If you try analysing the Metrics on the lyrical component, you'll end up seing it resembles more, say, Public Enemy (merely an example) than Kreator. Hip-Hop has some very specific Metric (one of the reasons that make the whole genre so hard to innovate), unlike Metal, which is why its so easy to distinguis what Nu Metal actually is. Rap-based structured Lyrics doesnt mean the guys are using 101 Rap like Limp Bizkit or RATM, sometimes they use a Rispid Semi-Growl on top of that, other times theres some tone there. The Rap is still there, but mixed with a more Metal Vocal style, thus the word "Rap-Based Lyrical Style". Almost all of these bands do so. If you listen to, say, Corey singing, he oftenly shifts between normal Rap to Growl(somewhat) but the structure doesnt change.

They were one of the first metal bands I got into (though at the time I called them hard rock, wouldn't call them hard rock now), and are still one of my favorite. Their music is very unique, I love just how zany it is, and also love all the Middle Eastern influences. I really want another album from these guys.

Written by Ganondox on 20.06.2014 at 16:14
I really want another album from these guys.

Get in line.

System of a Down is one of the first metal bands I started listening to. First two albums were Steal This Album! and Mesmerize. That song "Fuck the System" still makes me laugh to this day.

They really should make another album.

We need some new System music! Please, do a single, at least!

Can't wait to see these guys in june!! #AmnesiaRockfest

SOAD has been the favorite band of my only metalhead friend for years. He gave me their entire discography one day which really helped me appreciate them more. They have a very strange style that takes some getting used to, but eventually I've grown to love their wackiness. One really unique thing I've found about them is that even though their one of the quirkiest bands I've ever heard, a surprising amount of people that I have met who don't even listen to metal enjoy their more well known songs.

Written by Sentinel65 on 18.05.2015 at 00:24

SOAD has been the favorite band of my only metalhead friend for years. He gave me their entire discography one day which really helped me appreciate them more. They have a very strange style that takes some getting used to, but eventually I've grown to love their wackiness. One really unique thing I've found about them is that even though their one of the quirkiest bands I've ever heard, a surprising amount of people that I have met who don't even listen to metal enjoy their more well known songs.

This is the part that I don't agree at all. I think it's really easy to get into SOAD and that's exactly why they're so good in the first place, they have the oddest time signatures and but they attach everything with such good riffs and melodic hooks that becomes accessible to everyone.

Written by raveneffect on 25.05.2015 at 16:27

Written by Sentinel65 on 18.05.2015 at 00:24

SOAD has been the favorite band of my only metalhead friend for years. He gave me their entire discography one day which really helped me appreciate them more. They have a very strange style that takes some getting used to, but eventually I've grown to love their wackiness. One really unique thing I've found about them is that even though their one of the quirkiest bands I've ever heard, a surprising amount of people that I have met who don't even listen to metal enjoy their more well known songs.

This is the part that I don't agree at all. I think it's really easy to get into SOAD and that's exactly why they're so good in the first place, they have the oddest time signatures and but they attach everything with such good riffs and melodic hooks that becomes accessible to everyone.

It's not just the time signatures that are weird, in the world of metal that's probably the most normal thing about them. The thing that's the most obvious to people is the lyrics and Serj's eclectic vocal style, but they also use unusual instrumentation and modes, which give them a distinctively middle eastern flair. Really I think their bizarreness actually makes them more accessible, rather than less, as it draws people in.

I would definitely agree that their hooks and riffs draw people in, I was more referring to their strange vocals and lyrical content. Their bizareness making them more accessible is an interesting way to think about it, I'm sure this is true due to the fact that it makes them stand out to people. In my experience, which granted doesn't involve many other huge metal fans, the strange vocals and lyrics have initially turned people off compared with the instruments.

Is this band still around? Never been a fan so that's why I'm wondering.

Written by Warman on 16.06.2015 at 18:41

Is this band still around? Never been a fan so that's why I'm wondering.

They recently reunited to tour, and are maybe doing another album. Before that they've been on hiatus forever.

I saw them live last week... t'was fucking amazing !
I really hope they'll release some new material.

Written by Guib on 23.06.2015 at 07:54

I saw them live last week... t'was fucking amazing !
I really hope they'll release some new material.

You could have drop a word in their ears related to new album.

They should come up with full new disc now.

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 23.06.2015 at 19:47

Written by Guib on 23.06.2015 at 07:54

I saw them live last week... t'was fucking amazing !
I really hope they'll release some new material.

You could have drop a word in their ears related to new album.

They should come up with full new disc now.

Drop a word in their ear lol what am I ? It's a festival, it's 1h30 am... and they don't even put an encore. What am I suppose to do lol
Jump the fences and escape the security while they rush to their tour bus lawl. I wish actually. Maybe next time.

Written by Guib on 24.06.2015 at 03:50

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 23.06.2015 at 19:47

Written by Guib on 23.06.2015 at 07:54

I saw them live last week... t'was fucking amazing !
I really hope they'll release some new material.

You could have drop a word in their ears related to new album.

They should come up with full new disc now.

Drop a word in their ear lol what am I ? It's a festival, it's 1h30 am... and they don't even put an encore. What am I suppose to do lol
Jump the fences and escape the security while they rush to their tour bus lawl. I wish actually. Maybe next time.

YES YES and YES!

You could have jump the fences and drop a few words. This is how fans deliver personal messages to band members. =P

I kinda love the original post to this thread, because it gives me a glimpse of what JOOE was like ten years ago

SUGAR!!!!

Written by Jaeryd on 23.06.2016 at 04:19

I kinda love the original post to this thread, because it gives me a glimpse of what JOOE was like ten years ago

SUGAR!!!!

Can't quite believe that was 10 years ago. I still love System though. I've been listening to them a lot on the way to work recently. It's funny how many new layers and instruments you suddenly notice in things you've listened to 100s of times after your taste has "matured" after so much dissonant and experimental crap.

Oddly enough I think the album I look forward to listening to most these days is Steal This Album. Not entirely sure why, possibly because of the melodic / melancholic edge it has. Highway Song may be my fave System song these days.