Written by Dane Train on 06.04.2008 at 14:29

Written by [user id=31729] on 06.04.2008 at 03:03

Divine Fire...their amazing,check'em out.

What can you tell us about them? I have never heard them before.

Me to but I found em in MA and http://www.myspace.com/divinefireofficial

I kind of like Trouble. Doom melds with Christian themes better than other metal subgenres, I find.

Written by eximius on 05.04.2008 at 20:46

I think Christianity has nothing to do with rocking therefor I cannot see/understand the use of such a metal genre. Rocking is about breaking rules, feeling free whereas Christianity sucks a lot of grandma's ass... maybe someone can enlighten me!

Pretty much. If rocking is irrelevant to Christianity, then metal is its antithesis. Pretty telling that the only way you can make them compatible is if you remove one of them of all meaning:

Written by Dane Train on 06.04.2008 at 02:52
As Doug Pinnick once said "There is no Christian music. There is no Satanic music. There is just music."

:

Written by totaliteraliter on 07.04.2008 at 00:04

I kind of like Trouble. Doom melds with Christian themes better than other metal subgenres, I find.

Why exactly is that? I am not saying you're right or wrong with that conclussion, I am just wondering why you think that.

Written by Dane Train on 07.04.2008 at 01:01

Written by totaliteraliter on 07.04.2008 at 00:04

I kind of like Trouble. Doom melds with Christian themes better than other metal subgenres, I find.

Why exactly is that? I am not saying you're right or wrong with that conclussion, I am just wondering why you think that.

Its better at conveying themes of despair, submission, reflection... doom sounds a lot more like "turning the other cheek" than thrash or death metal does.

Written by totaliteraliter on 07.04.2008 at 04:35

Its better at conveying themes of despair, submission, reflection... doom sounds a lot more like "turning the other cheek" than thrash or death metal does.

I am not sure what your connection between despair and submission and that of Christianity have in common. Would you please explain?

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 00:46
despair

As in, doom metal can capture that stage of despair that makes one turn to Christianity, or the mood of the believer expressing doubt.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 00:46
submission

This should be obvious what with all those slavery metaphors in the bible. This is they main point where Christianity comes into conflict with the core themes of metal.

Written by totaliteraliter on 10.04.2008 at 07:16

This should be obvious what with all those slavery metaphors in the bible. This is they main point where Christianity comes into conflict with the core themes of metal.

No, actually it is not obvious. I am not really sure what slavery metaphors you are referring to. I still do not see how Christianity is at conflict with Metal.

Also, what are these so called "core themes"?

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 17:35
I am not really sure what slavery metaphors you are referring to.

Luke 17:7-10, "slave of Christ" in Paul...

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 17:35
I still do not see how Christianity is at conflict with Metal.
Also, what are these so called "core themes"?

Metal is about freedom and personal empowerment to name a few.

Written by totaliteraliter on 10.04.2008 at 18:55

Luke 17:7-10, "slave of Christ" in Paul...

First, what does Paul have to do with this? This is from the Gospel of Luke, Paul is not even in the picture yet.
Second, your translation is wrong. The word is not "slave" but "servant". The line is translated as "We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty." Nothing about "slaves of Christ". So, please get your facts right.
Third, this term "servant" is nothing like what we think of today when we think of a servant (or as you wrote, slave).

Written by totaliteraliter on 10.04.2008 at 18:55

Metal is about freedom and personal empowerment to name a few.

Wow, sounds a lot like Christianity to me...

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 19:06
First, what does Paul have to do with this? This is from the Gospel of Luke, Paul is not even in the picture yet.

The comma should have indicated that those were separate examples. To clarify: a) the slavery metaphor in Luke, b) "slave of Christ" in Paul.

Also, I'm pretty sure the gospel of Luke is post-Paul...

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 19:06
Second, your translation is wrong. The word is not "slave" but "servant". The line is translated as "We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty." Nothing about "slaves of Christ". So, please get your facts right.
Third, this term "servant" is nothing like what we think of today when we think of a servant (or as you wrote, slave).

I'm just using the standard academic translation. What translation are you using?

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 19:06

Written by totaliteraliter on 10.04.2008 at 18:55
Metal is about freedom and personal empowerment to name a few.

Wow, sounds a lot like Christianity to me...

Metal's freedom is obviously not equivalent with whatever freedom you have derived from Christianity. It's freedom not to follow divine laws, and personal empowerment that comes from the self.

Written by totaliteraliter on 10.04.2008 at 19:21

The comma should have indicated that those were separate examples. To clarify: a) the slavery metaphor in Luke, b) "slave of Christ" in Paul.

Also, I'm pretty sure the gospel of Luke is post-Paul...

I'm just using the standard academic translation. What translation are you using?

Metal's freedom is obviously not equivalent with whatever freedom you have derived from Christianity. It's freedom not to follow divine laws, and personal empowerment that comes from the self.

The proper translation into English would be servant. Both the ancient Hebrew and Greek word for slave found in the Bible is not the same word we use in English. So the correct term to be using is servant/follower.

Luke wrote his Gospel and the History of the Young Church (commonly known as the Book of Acts) around 60 A.D. with Acts a few years later (and some conclude there may have been a third book as well, but that is another topic). Luke was a friend and companion of Paul's. Paul began his writing shortly before Luke (most notably the letter to the Church in Rome) and continued it after Luke had written Acts.

As for my translations, I use multiple English translations. My favorite is J.B. Phillips translation of the New Testament. For further understanding, I sit down with scholars and read the books in their original language to get the full understanding.

Metal's freedom? Dude, Metal is a type of music. Not some deep theosophical lifestyle. And since when was there a specific identification to Metal. I guess I missed the Metal Ten Commandments. Metal isn't some sort of freedom, it is primarily a bunch of drunk dumbass kids with long hair.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 19:40
The proper translation into English would be servant. Both the ancient Hebrew and Greek word for slave found in the Bible is not the same word we use in English. So the correct term to be using is servant/follower.

Luke wrote his Gospel and the History of the Young Church (commonly known as the Book of Acts) around 60 A.D. with Acts a few years later (and some conclude there may have been a third book as well, but that is another topic). Luke was a friend and companion of Paul's. Paul began his writing shortly before Luke (most notably the letter to the Church in Rome) and continued it after Luke had written Acts.

As for my translations, I use multiple English translations. My favorite is J.B. Phillips translation of the New Testament. For further understanding, I sit down with scholars and read the books in their original language to get the full understanding.

Ok, clearly you take a faith-based approach rather than a scholarly one. Since you are so quick to dismiss mainstream academic opinion as incorrect, I doubt there is much point to continuing this line of discussion.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 19:40
Metal's freedom? Dude, Metal is a type of music. Not some deep theosophical lifestyle. And since when was there a specific identification to Metal. I guess I missed the Metal Ten Commandments. Metal isn't some sort of freedom, it is primarily a bunch of drunk dumbass kids with long hair.

: As I said, regarding Christianity and metal:

Written by totaliteraliter on 07.04.2008 at 00:04
Pretty telling that the only way you can make them compatible is if you remove one of them of all meaning.

Metal means nothing to you, fair enough; this doesn't make it meaningless.

What are you even talking about now? You don't seem to be making any points here.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 20:53

What are you even talking about now? You don't seem to be making any points here.

a) Discussing the bible is probably pointless since you seem to lean more towards fringe viewpoints.
b) Discussing metal is probably pointless since you dismiss it as just music.

Written by totaliteraliter on 10.04.2008 at 21:45

a) Discussing the bible is probably pointless since you seem to lean more towards fringe viewpoints.
b) Discussing metal is probably pointless since you dismiss it as just music.

Hardly at. The problem is you don't seem to know much about true Christianity. I hardly lean towards "fringe" view points. Everything I have stated in this thread is solid. You put down a mistranslation, and I corrected you. That is not fringe, that is the truth.

And I do not dismiss Metal as just a music style. What I do dismiss is that there is one universal view point in Metal that is anti-God.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 21:51
Hardly at. The problem is you don't seem to know much about true Christianity. I hardly lean towards "fringe" view points. Everything I have stated in this thread is solid. You put down a mistranslation, and I corrected you. That is not fringe, that is the truth.

Your "correct" translation disagrees with the mainstream academic translation. Your opinions on Luke (authorship, date) certainly place you with the minority of scholars. This is why I say "fringe", and though that may be an exaggeration, it is certainly not mainstream. Calling your position "the truth" doesn't encourage me to continue the discussion either.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 21:51
And I do not dismiss Metal as just a music style. What I do dismiss is that there is one universal view point in Metal that is anti-God.

Not ant-God. Just unfriendly to Christianity.

Written by totaliteraliter on 10.04.2008 at 22:00

Your "correct" translation disagrees with the mainstream academic translation. Your opinions on Luke (authorship, date) certainly place you with the minority of scholars. This is why I say "fringe", and though that may be an exaggeration, it is certainly not mainstream. Calling your position "the truth" doesn't encourage me to continue the discussion either.
Not ant-God. Just unfriendly to Christianity.

Really? I looked at six different English translations, and they all say "Servant". I also asked a friend of mine, who is not only a Biblical scholar, but also fluent in Ancient Hebrew and Greek, and he confirmed that it should be be translated as servant. So I please inform me, what translational re you using?

And last time I looked, the Gospel of Luke was written by Luke. Who are you attributing it to? Could you please give me the correct author and date, because obviously my two college degrees in Biblical studies mean absolutely nothing since it appears we were taught wrong from the very beginning.

So why does Metal have to be unfriendly to Christianity? Was there some secret council in the early days where Jimi Hendrix said to John Kay and Robert Plant that what they were starting was supposed to be unfriendly to Christianity? Well, with an attitude like your, I can fully understand why Christians can be against Metal. You trying to make the music in opposition of them.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 22:11
Really? I looked at six different English translations, and they all say "Servant". I also asked a friend of mine, who is not only a Biblical scholar, but also fluent in Ancient Hebrew and Greek, and he confirmed that it should be be translated as servant. So I please inform me, what translational re you using?

The current NRSV. The academic standard.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 22:11
And last time I looked, the Gospel of Luke was written by Luke. Who are you attributing it to? Could you please give me the correct author and date, because obviously my two college degrees in Biblical studies mean absolutely nothing since it appears we were taught wrong from the very beginning.

The Gospel of Luke is anonymous, and most scholars date it in the neighborhood of 85 CE.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 22:11
So why does Metal have to be unfriendly to Christianity? Was there some secret council in the early days where Jimi Hendrix said to John Kay and Robert Plant that what they were starting was supposed to be unfriendly to Christianity? Well, with an attitude like your, I can fully understand why Christians can be against Metal. You trying to make the music in opposition of them.

Metal doesn't have to be against Christianity. It just usually is because that's what works best, that's what it has been developed for. And I'm talking about metal as it is known today, not metal as a vague term for loud 1960s-70s rock music.

Written by totaliteraliter on 10.04.2008 at 22:25

The current NRSV. The academic standard.

The Gospel of Luke is anonymous, and most scholars date it in the neighborhood of 85 CE.

Metal doesn't have to be against Christianity. It just usually is because that's what works best, that's what it has been developed for. And I'm talking about metal as it is known today, not metal as a vague term for loud 1960s-70s rock music.

Actually NRSV is not standard, because there is no standard English translation. The standard is Ancient Hebrew and Greek.

The authorship and date of the Gospels will always be debated because some people are just looking for an argument. The fact is, none of this is relevant to this thread.

Yes, a lot of Metalheads think they're badass because they can rebel against the church. Who the fuck cares. The fact is Metal can be about what ever you want it to be about.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 22:36
Actually NRSV is not standard, because there is no standard English translation. The standard is Ancient Hebrew and Greek.

: The NRSV is the English academic standard because it used the best Hebrew/Greek manuscripts we have. This is the one I use.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 22:36
The authorship and date of the Gospels will always be debated because some people are just looking for an argument. The fact is, none of this is relevant to this thread.

But your opinion is the "truth", right? Even though you disagree with mainstream academic opinion? Anonymous authorship around 85 CE isn't put forth because people are looking for an argument, but because it's the most reasonable conclusion to come to based on the evidence we have.

Written by Dane Train on 10.04.2008 at 22:36
Yes, a lot of Metalheads think they're badass because they can rebel against the church. Who the fuck cares. The fact is Metal can be about what ever you want it to be about.

Yes, it can. But if it's about Christianity it's probably going to suck. Because Christianity is in opposition with the ideas behind metal.

And now back on-topic cause this topic is about "Your Favorite Christian Metal Band?" and not "your favourite Bible translation" :-)
If you want to continue this discussion do it in the Christianity thread or create a thread for it.

Indeed Marcel, this is not the topic for theological discussions (there is a nice serious discussion in the serious discussions part called christianity). And I am pretty shure that the best christian metal band is Mortification. They don't complaint about getting rid of their freedom or so, they just make metal for their master of which they love to be a slave anyway. Being a slave of God isn't bad anyway as I can tell you. Some can make metal for the one he loves. And still rock!
Mortification!

I'll mention the bible bits in the Christianity thread. I'm always up for discussion on either the bible or metal vs Christianity, but not in this thread I guess...

Written by [user id=30512] on 12.04.2008 at 15:12
Being a slave of God isn't bad anyway as I can tell you.

, that's the spirit.

Im atheist and I hate religion, however Antestor has a very good sound IMO.

Marcel sad its not realigion tread but fab christian metal band

I thought how you guys were saying there is a "universal viewpoint of metal as anti-Christianity" is pretty false. Power metal seems to be primarily produced by people of Christian origins, even if the music is mostly secular. That's like saying all metal people have long hair, hang in malls, like metallica or whatever.

i voted for Extol but they're an old favourite for me!
as for american 'metal' i'd choose As I Lay Dying, Haste The Day.
early Vengeance Rising is good if not a bit strange. stranger still is the story behind the bands chief songwriter, who turned to Satanism, then later atheism. its a weird one.

i just like Reverend Bizarre

who are not christian.

Written by [user id=31891] on 03.05.2008 at 18:04

i just like Reverend Bizarre

thay are not cristians and never had been , it was joke post

Written by Bad English on 04.05.2008 at 09:46

Written by [user id=31891] on 03.05.2008 at 18:04

i just like Reverend Bizarre

thay are not cristians and never had been , it was joke post

http://www.metal-archives.com/

search it there i saw this: lyrics: religion- .....
then i saw that they have big cross on their neck so thought they r Christian!

PS:i like them so i wish they werent christian(im not sure that they r or not)