Written by Piro on 28.12.2007 at 21:32

I also don't think this album should get a ten. Its a very good album, no doubt, but people have to realize that there is no such thing as perfection. I would give this album (actually, I did http://soundofmetal.se/index.php?page=wintersunwintersunreview) an 8.7 even though I very rarely give stuff above 8 unless its truly great. There are some flaws in this album, and people don't seem to get that for some reason.

Written by Urizen367 on 22.01.2008 at 02:49

"let it be said that if Angus Young is TNT, then listening to 'Wintersun' is an apocalyptic barrage of H-bombs."

that is fucking classic.

Written by Clintagräm on 23.02.2008 at 04:11

Written by Urizen367 on 22.01.2008 at 02:49

"let it be said that if Angus Young is TNT, then listening to 'Wintersun' is an apocalyptic barrage of H-bombs."

that is fucking classic.

Fuck me. Is this what the world's coming to? Wintersun over AC/DC? Fuck me, again.

Written by Hyvaarin on 27.02.2008 at 05:43

Written by Clintagräm on 23.02.2008 at 04:11

Written by Urizen367 on 22.01.2008 at 02:49

"let it be said that if Angus Young is TNT, then listening to 'Wintersun' is an apocalyptic barrage of H-bombs."

that is fucking classic.

Fuck me. Is this what the world's coming to? Wintersun over AC/DC? Fuck me, again.

Hahahahahahahaah. Though I really don't like AC/DC, and though I admit that my review is quite hyperbolic, I stand by my belief that Maenpaa is way fucking better than Angus Young.

Written by Clintagräm on 27.02.2008 at 05:58

Are you seriously going to claim that after one album (I know he was in Ensiferum) vs. years of classic albums, songwriting, skill, and influence? Are you kidding me? Is he better than Iommi and Page too?

Written by Hyvaarin on 02.03.2008 at 17:20

Written by Clintagräm on 27.02.2008 at 05:58

Are you seriously going to claim that after one album (I know he was in Ensiferum) vs. years of classic albums, songwriting, skill, and influence? Are you kidding me? Is he better than Iommi and Page too?

Yes I am, and I'll tell you why. Angus Young's playing bores me. Note that I said his "playing", and not his albums, "skill" (which, if you are referring to measurable technical ability, is an absolute joke compared to Maënpäa's anyway), influence, etc. AND you'll hopefully also note that my comment in the review concerned Angus Young's playing, and none of the other shit that you've brought up.

Written by Clintagräm on 02.03.2008 at 17:22

Written by Hyvaarin on 02.03.2008 at 17:20

Written by Clintagräm on 27.02.2008 at 05:58

Are you seriously going to claim that after one album (I know he was in Ensiferum) vs. years of classic albums, songwriting, skill, and influence? Are you kidding me? Is he better than Iommi and Page too?

Yes I am, and I'll tell you why. Angus Young's playing bores me. Note that I said his "playing", and not his albums, "skill" (which, if you are referring to measurable technical ability, is an absolute joke compared to Maënpäa's anyway), influence, etc. AND you'll hopefully also note that my comment in the review concerned Angus Young's playing, and none of the other shit that you've brought up.

Wow. Alright man. By the way, skill doesn't involving playing fast or shredding, true guitar skill involves not only technical ability, but fluid and memorable songwriting. It's something like AC/DC's riffs that people remember, over Wintersun, which in my opinion is often very recycled sounding riffs that leave me right after they're played. Hmm...I might create a topic about this.

Written by Judas on 03.03.2008 at 14:53

Written by Clintagräm on 02.03.2008 at 17:22

Written by Hyvaarin on 02.03.2008 at 17:20

Written by Clintagräm on 27.02.2008 at 05:58

Are you seriously going to claim that after one album (I know he was in Ensiferum) vs. years of classic albums, songwriting, skill, and influence? Are you kidding me? Is he better than Iommi and Page too?

Yes I am, and I'll tell you why. Angus Young's playing bores me. Note that I said his "playing", and not his albums, "skill" (which, if you are referring to measurable technical ability, is an absolute joke compared to Maënpäa's anyway), influence, etc. AND you'll hopefully also note that my comment in the review concerned Angus Young's playing, and none of the other shit that you've brought up.

Wow. Alright man. By the way, skill doesn't involving playing fast or shredding, true guitar skill involves not only technical ability, but fluid and memorable songwriting. It's something like AC/DC's riffs that people remember, over Wintersun, which in my opinion is often very recycled sounding riffs that leave me right after they're played. Hmm...I might create a topic about this.

Um, dude, 'playing with skill' and 'songwriting' are two very, very different things. Obviously, the reviewer isn't confusing the two, unlike you. By your definition, someone like Steve Harris would be a very talented guitarist, because he can write 'fluid and memorable' stuff, and can play what he writes without the technical virtuosity of a 'shredder' like Jari, right? But here's the thing: Steve Harris plays bass! Not all songwriters are guitarists, and not all guitarists are songwriters, so don't put 'guitar skill' and 'songwriting' under the same banner.

Written by Clintagräm on 03.03.2008 at 19:08

Written by Judas on 03.03.2008 at 14:53

Written by Clintagräm on 02.03.2008 at 17:22

Written by Hyvaarin on 02.03.2008 at 17:20

Written by Clintagräm on 27.02.2008 at 05:58

Are you seriously going to claim that after one album (I know he was in Ensiferum) vs. years of classic albums, songwriting, skill, and influence? Are you kidding me? Is he better than Iommi and Page too?

Yes I am, and I'll tell you why. Angus Young's playing bores me. Note that I said his "playing", and not his albums, "skill" (which, if you are referring to measurable technical ability, is an absolute joke compared to Maënpäa's anyway), influence, etc. AND you'll hopefully also note that my comment in the review concerned Angus Young's playing, and none of the other shit that you've brought up.

Wow. Alright man. By the way, skill doesn't involving playing fast or shredding, true guitar skill involves not only technical ability, but fluid and memorable songwriting. It's something like AC/DC's riffs that people remember, over Wintersun, which in my opinion is often very recycled sounding riffs that leave me right after they're played. Hmm...I might create a topic about this.

Um, dude, 'playing with skill' and 'songwriting' are two very, very different things. Obviously, the reviewer isn't confusing the two, unlike you. By your definition, someone like Steve Harris would be a very talented guitarist, because he can write 'fluid and memorable' stuff, and can play what he writes without the technical virtuosity of a 'shredder' like Jari, right? But here's the thing: Steve Harris plays bass! Not all songwriters are guitarists, and not all guitarists are songwriters, so don't put 'guitar skill' and 'songwriting' under the same banner.

Well, I'm not confusing the two. I understand what they are, and how they're different but to me, guitar skill involves both technical ability and "good" songwriting. I think we just have a difference in preference, and not in understanding. I agree when most people think of skill, they think of technical proficiency, but I also think of songwriting. Malmsteen fucking shreds like no other, but what makes someone like Petrucci (in my opinion) or Jason Becker a more skilled guitarist has to do with their songwriting skills, and not just virtuoso ability. Otherwise, we get to a point where a guitarists can play everything, but it depends on what they write that makes them skilled, in my opinion. I can see what you thought from my post though. Get me?

Written by Urizen367 on 06.03.2008 at 02:44

in terms of skill. jari wins. yes he plays fast, but take it from me (a guitarist), his stuff is insanely difficult to emulate. he pulls off sweep arpeggios like nothing, his tapping sounds like he's gonna punch a hole in the fretboard, and not to mention his dexterity, speed, strength, and precision with his fingers. every note on that album is perfect. in terms of song-writing, the two are far different. Ac/Dc is more of a poppy style (yes, i said it), jari's is just your standard power-folk metal crazy off the wall style song writing. so there is no true winner there. maybe if one wrote more like the other, it'd be a different call.

now as mentioned in the last of the quotes, you consider guitar skill to be: technical ability and good songwriting. and i'm going to use one of the afore mentioned bands as an example: Iron Maiden's Dave Murray. Davey has been with the band since 76 and in that time has co-written about...15 songs? ish? he does not have one song solely of his own writing, in 32 years. he is and has been Iron Maiden's BEST guitarist. though i do prefer Adrian meself, i will not doubt that Dave far surpasses both Janick and Adrian in terms of technical ability. so, does it demean Dave's "guitar skill" knowing he's only written a handful of songs, but technically is a bomber of a guitarist?

Written by Clintagräm on 06.03.2008 at 06:21

Written by Urizen367 on 06.03.2008 at 02:44

in terms of skill. jari wins. yes he plays fast, but take it from me (a guitarist), his stuff is insanely difficult to emulate. he pulls off sweep arpeggios like nothing, his tapping sounds like he's gonna punch a hole in the fretboard, and not to mention his dexterity, speed, strength, and precision with his fingers. every note on that album is perfect. in terms of song-writing, the two are far different. Ac/Dc is more of a poppy style (yes, i said it), jari's is just your standard power-folk metal crazy off the wall style song writing. so there is no true winner there. maybe if one wrote more like the other, it'd be a different call.

now as mentioned in the last of the quotes, you consider guitar skill to be: technical ability and good songwriting. and i'm going to use one of the afore mentioned bands as an example: Iron Maiden's Dave Murray. Davey has been with the band since 76 and in that time has co-written about...15 songs? ish? he does not have one song solely of his own writing, in 32 years. he is and has been Iron Maiden's BEST guitarist. though i do prefer Adrian meself, i will not doubt that Dave far surpasses both Janick and Adrian in terms of technical ability. so, does it demean Dave's "guitar skill" knowing he's only written a handful of songs, but technically is a bomber of a guitarist?

Well, just because Jari puts all of his ability into this songs doesn't make him the best. Once you get to certain limits, you can't go anywhere except songwriting. That's what makes, in my opinion, someone like Jason Becker way better than Malmsteen. They both could shred like fucking crazy, but Jason wrote way better songs, in my opinion. That's where I am coming from. Do you see? With Dave Murray it's the exact same, I think you have weigh both options, skill and songwriting. Sure, he (or anyone else) could be technically amazing, but (obviously) with Murray maybe aren't utilized with their songwriting skills because it isn't good or doesn't fit or you have someone better. I was comparing the two MAIN songwriters, so obviously with the little material Dave's name's tied to, it's up for debate, just like everything else.

Written by Urizen367 on 07.03.2008 at 06:22

i think i speak for a lot of people reading this, when i say, dude you are confusing the hell outta me.

Written by Clintagräm on 07.03.2008 at 06:25

Written by Urizen367 on 07.03.2008 at 06:22

i think i speak for a lot of people reading this, when i say, dude you are confusing the hell outta me.

So you don't understand the difference between technical skills and songwriting skills?

Written by Evil Chip on 11.03.2008 at 05:35

Written by Clintagräm on 07.03.2008 at 06:25

Written by Urizen367 on 07.03.2008 at 06:22

i think i speak for a lot of people reading this, when i say, dude you are confusing the hell outta me.

So you don't understand the difference between technical skills and songwriting skills?

So you are saying that actually a guitar player most improve their composing skills (not songwriting skills). There is no thing in music such as called: songwriting skill, there's no such thing like the 10 rules to make the perfect song.... And if there would then it wouldn't be called music, it wouldn't be called an art. Everyone with some music theory knowledge can know that wintersun makes songs that are more well crafted and professional than AC/DC. But that make them better? .. No, just DIFFERENT.

Written by Clintagräm on 11.03.2008 at 05:42

Written by Evil Chip on 11.03.2008 at 05:35

Written by Clintagräm on 07.03.2008 at 06:25

Written by Urizen367 on 07.03.2008 at 06:22

i think i speak for a lot of people reading this, when i say, dude you are confusing the hell outta me.

So you don't understand the difference between technical skills and songwriting skills?

So you are saying that actually a guitar player most improve their composing skills (not songwriting skills). There is no thing in music such as called: songwriting skill, there's no such thing like the 10 rules to make the perfect song.... And if there would then it wouldn't be called music, it wouldn't be called an art. Everyone with some music theory knowledge can know that wintersun makes songs that are more well crafted and professional than AC/DC. But that make them better? .. No, just DIFFERENT.

Well, that is where our opinions part. I personally think someone can be a terrible songwriter, while someone else can be fantastic. Obviously they're different, but when music is uninspired, repetitive, and stale (among other attributes) that is what I call poor songwriting. Obviously, this is largely an opinion, but everyone has them, so I voice mine. I say this band is totally overrated and while songs are technically respectable, their lukewarm nature is not. To each their own.

Written by [user id=20536] on 11.03.2008 at 07:01

...

I don't see how this band is lukewarm in nature at all. I suppose that's your own opinion, but I have had this album for two years and still play it almost daily. If your not into it than that's cool, but there is nothing lukewarm about this band. Jari didn't leave Ensiferum to be lukewarm. He fucking recorded everything except for drums on here. He worked hard on this album, nothing at all about this album is lukewarm. Say it's not your cup of tea or you would rather listen to old Children of Bodom songs, songs that just rip off the classical composers, or if you are expecting some extreme folk metal album, this isn't, but don't say something that Jari worked on for about 10 years is lukewarm. That's a pretty dick move. I'm not trying to be an ass, but its not like a few "elite" metal wannabes like this album, a bunch of people do. Saying this album is lukewarm is like saying George Bush is a great president, The majority isn't going to agree with you. You don't have to like the album, but you can show some respect.

Written by [user id=20536] on 11.03.2008 at 07:01

I don't see how this band is lukewarm in nature at all. I suppose that's your own opinion, but I have had this album for two years and still play it almost daily. If your not into it than that's cool, but there is nothing lukewarm about this band. Jari didn't leave Ensiferum to be lukewarm. He fucking recorded everything except for drums on here. He worked hard on this album, nothing at all about this album is lukewarm. Say it's not your cup of tea or you would rather listen to old Children of Bodom songs, songs that just rip off the classical composers, or if you are expecting some extreme folk metal album, this isn't, but don't say something that Jari worked on for about 10 years is lukewarm. That's a pretty dick move. I'm not trying to be an ass, but its not like a few "elite" metal wannabes like this album, a bunch of people do. Saying this album is lukewarm is like saying George Bush is a great president, The majority isn't going to agree with you. You don't have to like the album, but you can show some respect.

Written by [user id=22888] on 11.03.2008 at 09:36

The fact that people can both love Wintersun and despise Wintersun is proof that the album is a work of art.

Written by Clintagräm on 11.03.2008 at 19:35

...

Yeah, and obviously art is highly subjective, so there's often no "good or bad." I could take a shit on a piece of paper and call it art. I'm sure many people would hate it but I bet I could find one person out there who likes it. Does that make it a work of art? Yeah okay...

Written by [user id=22888] on 11.03.2008 at 20:13

Written by Clintagräm on 11.03.2008 at 19:35

...

Yeah, and obviously art is highly subjective, so there's often no "good or bad." I could take a shit on a piece of paper and call it art. I'm sure many people would hate it but I bet I could find one person out there who likes it. Does that make it a work of art? Yeah okay...

Now that's hardly a reasonable comparison! I wouldn't even draw that parallel with St. Anger. What did Jari ever do to you?

Written by [user id=22888] on 11.03.2008 at 09:36

Written by [user id=20536] on 11.03.2008 at 07:01

...

I don't see how this band is lukewarm in nature at all. I suppose that's your own opinion, but I have had this album for two years and still play it almost daily. If your not into it than that's cool, but there is nothing lukewarm about this band. Jari didn't leave Ensiferum to be lukewarm. He fucking recorded everything except for drums on here. He worked hard on this album, nothing at all about this album is lukewarm. Say it's not your cup of tea or you would rather listen to old Children of Bodom songs, songs that just rip off the classical composers, or if you are expecting some extreme folk metal album, this isn't, but don't say something that Jari worked on for about 10 years is lukewarm. That's a pretty dick move. I'm not trying to be a butt, but its not like a few "elite" metal wannabes like this album, a bunch of people do. Saying this album is lukewarm is like saying George Bush is a great president, The majority isn't going to agree with you. You don't have to like the album, but you can show some respect.

When I first heard this album, it blew me away. I found it to be very moving and emotional - not how I usually respond to metal music. For the longest time I had it listed as my favourite album, until I discovered Agalloch. I can hear the effort and time that Jari put into it whenever I listen. But when something is this good, many people will not be able to understand it. I am not surprised that a lot of people think that Wintersun is no big deal. That's alright, because the very best work always causes strong reactions in people - both positive and negative. The fact that people can both love Wintersun and despise Wintersun is proof that the album is a work of art.

And remember, the majority of Americans do think that George Bush is a great president. That's why he was elected twice. Don't wait for the majority to agree with you when you are perfectly capable of making up your own mind! Even if only a few people liked Wintersun, it wouldn't stop me from knowing that it was a fantastic album.

Written by Clintagräm on 11.03.2008 at 19:35

Written by [user id=20536] on 11.03.2008 at 07:01

I don't see how this band is lukewarm in nature at all. I suppose that's your own opinion, but I have had this album for two years and still play it almost daily. If your not into it than that's cool, but there is nothing lukewarm about this band. Jari didn't leave Ensiferum to be lukewarm. He fucking recorded everything except for drums on here. He worked hard on this album, nothing at all about this album is lukewarm. Say it's not your cup of tea or you would rather listen to old Children of Bodom songs, songs that just rip off the classical composers, or if you are expecting some extreme folk metal album, this isn't, but don't say something that Jari worked on for about 10 years is lukewarm. That's a pretty dick move. I'm not trying to be an butt, but its not like a few "elite" metal wannabes like this album, a bunch of people do. Saying this album is lukewarm is like saying George Bush is a great president, The majority isn't going to agree with you. You don't have to like the album, but you can show some respect.

Well, it's of my personal opinion that everything I've heard from this genre (CoB, Norther, Kalmah) is all lukewarm. That's my descriptive opinion. I didn't say it was a "fucking disgrace to metal" or "a steaming hunk of shit." I said it seemed lukewarm, and to me, it's just that. I don't feel much direction in the music. I don't see a purpose to it. I don't enjoy it. I commented saying it was technically proficient, but that's not what makes an album or a song to me. I personally find more emotion or feeling in a Burzum song like "Lost Wisdom" than I do in anything I've ever heard from Wintersun. I am indifferent to this album and this band. It's nothing special to me, but I don't go out of my way to prove how shitty it is, like you seem to say I am. I respect him for being a great musician, but I don't enjoy the album that much. Hell, I love Blind Guardian but I found their latest to be "lukewarm" also. Does that mean I hate them or despise their music? No. I just felt the album was uninspiring. You're exactly the type of person that makes me dislike this album even more, because I get grilled for speaking my opinion about it being moderate and unenthusiastic. I'm not saying he didn't put hard work into it, and obviously it's emotional to him and you and others, but IN MY OPINION, it isn't. Get a grip and deal with it.

Written by [user id=22888] on 11.03.2008 at 09:36

The fact that people can both love Wintersun and despise Wintersun is proof that the album is a work of art.

Yeah, and obviously art is highly subjective, so there's often no "good or bad." I could take a shit on a piece of paper and call it art. I'm sure many people would hate it but I bet I could find one person out there who likes it. Does that make it a work of art? Yeah okay...

Written by [user id=20536] on 11.03.2008 at 20:57

I just don't think you are in any place to be judging the songwriting on this album as lukewarm, uninspired, stale, etc. If you don't like the genre then don't judge the music in it. When brewers bring their beers to compete against other brewers, the judges panel is not going to be made up of people who dislike beer. If one appreciates the album cool, but if one doesn't, doesn't even like the bands in the genre, then why say anything at all, stop wasting your time here. I would understand your comments more perhaps if you were a fan of extreme power metal, but the fact that you find most bands within the genre lukewarm, uninspired, etc tells me you aren't. I'm not a big fan of Dream Theater, but I'm not going to go say their music is uninspired when a lot of other people seem to enjoy it and just because I'm not a fan of it. Why waste your time here bashing this stuff, when you could be commenting about the good stuff or doing something more positive.

Written by [user id=20536] on 11.03.2008 at 20:47

...

I was talking to wyatt in my comment and contrary to your beliefs, Bush won the first election without winning a majority vote. He won because of the electoral college. And Bush's current approval rating is 19%. I would say 19% is hardly a majority.