Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 12:54

that has to be highly exagerated.

Nah, it's about accurate.

Written by [user id=101272] on 19.08.2014 at 19:19

Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 12:54

that has to be highly exagerated.

Nah, it's about accurate.

Can't say I agree with you. Describing bands like Artillery, Sodom, Exumer, Coroner, Destruction or Living Death as "not good" doesn't feel right. Even Holy Moses or Paradox which aren't that great nowadays, managed to put out great stuff back then.

Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 20:30

Can't say I agree with you. Describing bands like Artillery, Sodom, Exumer, Coroner, Destruction or Living Death as "not good" doesn't feel right. Even Holy Moses or Paradox which aren't that great nowadays, managed to put out great stuff back then.

Out of all of those, I'd only give valid credit to Sodom, Holy Moses and Coroner for having a modest body of work, and The Antichrist by Destruction which is the only album I've fully cared for by the band. Artillery and Paradox are super-overrated. Eurothrash is mostly remembered because of the Trio for a reason, compared to the wave of American thrash at the time like Slayer, Overkill, Voivod, Toxik, Megadeth, Anthrax, Demolition Hammer, Testament, Flotsam And Jetsam, Suicidal Tendencies and crossover acts like D.R.I. and S.O.D.. Also considering most of the popular bands in the new wave of thrash (Warbringer, Toxic Holocaust, Vektor, Skeletonwitch) are from America as well further solidifies the point.

Your point is: "America has better Thrash Metal". While I partly agree in terms of quantity, the subject in question is "Europe didnt had any good Thrash bands back in the days" which is clearly, not true.

I'd still put "Persecution Mania", "R.I.P", "Eternal Devastation", "Possessed By Fire", "Agent Orange", "By Inheritance" and such against "Reign in Blood", "Horrorscope", "The Legacy", "Rust in Piece", etc... and they hold just fine.

And nowadays Europe has Evile, Angelus Apatrida and Lost Society so...yeah

I like Kreator a little more, mainly because throughout Kreator has been more solid and in addition to classic stuff, like Pleasure to Kill and Extreme Aggression, they've developed a bit different, more epic sound which really appeals to me. Slayer has released tons of classics as well and their influence on death metal is undeniable. Their chaotic sound is very unique as well, but their latest albums lack that sparkle they once had. However I prefer old Slayer to old Kreator, but overall my vote goes to Kreator.

Overall I like the US thrash more than teutonic. It's just more diverse over the ocean - ranging from melodic Anthrax to ultra thrashy Sadus.

Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 20:30

Written by [user id=101272] on 19.08.2014 at 19:19

Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 12:54

that has to be highly exagerated.

Nah, it's about accurate.

Can't say I agree with you. Describing bands like Artillery, Sodom, Exumer, Coroner, Destruction or Living Death as "not good" doesn't feel right. Even Holy Moses or Paradox which aren't that great nowadays, managed to put out great stuff back then.

Atillery as a great European band is toally laugable since they were and still are total Bay Area rip offs. Exumer were second/thiird rate at best Coroner were great, true that, Sodom were the lauging stock of thrash at the time and rightly so, Destruction weren't much better. Living Death were wannabe's no one had ever heard of. Holy Moses started off as a Anthrqax wannabe but failed. Paradox third rate as well...

Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 22:44

"R.I.P",

wtf? That is Coroner's owrst by far

Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 22:44

, "By Inheritance"

The single most overrated album here on MS and by far the weakest by Atillery of their first three. And the other two weren;t that gret either to be honest.

Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 22:44



And nowadays Europe has Evile, Angelus Apatrida and Lost Society so...yeah

Copycat crap crap and crap. There is not a single modern day thrash band which is really good. No not even hyped Vektor

Marcel man you are going crazy in this thread. It's not the worst thing in the world for people to have differing opinions.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 21.08.2014 at 03:14

Marcel man you are going crazy in this thread. It's not the worst thing in the world for people to have differing opinions.

well somehow some who don't disagree whit his opinion he is , well pssed to say polite
and not only about metal

Why is there so much hate for new thrash bands?
If originality is your only complaint then that's really pathetic.
Just my opinion though.
As for the topic, its tied for me.
80's Slayer and Kreator are really good.
But 90's Slayer > 90's Kreator, except Coma of Souls. I like that album.
2000's till now both are really good.

Written by Totenlieder on 21.08.2014 at 03:29

Why is there so much hate for new thrash bands?
If originality is your only complaint then that's really pathetic.
Just my opinion though.
As for the topic, its tied for me.
80's Slayer and Kreator are really good.
But 90's Slayer > 90's Kreator, except Coma of Souls. I like that album.
2000's till now both are really good.

90's Kreator was so so, much better 00's . only Endorama what is not thrash is good
Slayer only 80's is good , rest is nothing special even to search torent

Well, thrash could use some originality btw. I guess it's more likely to find an original power metal band than a thrash one =P

Written by deadone on 21.08.2014 at 03:40

Written by Totenlieder on 21.08.2014 at 03:29

Why is there so much hate for new thrash bands?
If originality is your only complaint then that's really pathetic.

Really? I personally don't see the point of listening to unoriginal clones that are just pale immitations of bands they're copying. And a big problem for me is that the new Thrash bands aren't just copycats, they also suck at song writing compared to the best of the original bands. For the most part they offer nothing and are completely mindless.

Not all of them are good, I'll agree on that.
But most I've listened to I've enjoyed.

Marcel, I found that all your 4 quotes are all drawn into "personal-opinion Waters" instead of "mere facts". If I wasnt at work, or if youtube wasnt blocked here, It would be the PERFECT oportunity to quote you and leave the "The Big Lebowsky's - Well...that's just your opinion....man" scene. That would be rather funny and clearing but would be poor in terms of discussion.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.08.2014 at 02:40

Atillery as a great European band is toally laugable since they were and still are total Bay Area rip offs. Exumer were second/thiird rate at best Coroner were great, true that, Sodom were the lauging stock of thrash at the time and rightly so, Destruction weren't much better. Living Death were wannabe's no one had ever heard of. Holy Moses started off as a Anthrqax wannabe but failed. Paradox third rate as well...

I get you are older and that you remember the stuff back then. I can only speak for the more recent years and judge everything by what I listen today. I never saw Artillery as a Bay Area rip off. They have a distinctive sound and that's way more than you can ask for most of the second and third wave of Thrash bands that started to emerge. As for Exumer, while I agree that their second one isnt that great, the debut was spot-on. Don't know about Sodom so I'll let their work speak for itself: its awesome. They also have a big cult of followers for some reason, same as Destruction (however, I'd say on a much smaller scale). Never liked Holy Moses that much but I have to admit they made a solid carreer over the years.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.08.2014 at 02:41

wtf? That is Coroner's owrst by far

[INSERT THE BIG LEBOWSKY SCENE]

I consider everything up to Mental Vortex a fair candidate to that spot but R.I.P. feels the "Thrashiest" and its my personal favourite.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.08.2014 at 02:44

The single most overrated album here on MS and by far the weakest by Atillery of their first three. And the other two weren;t that gret either to be honest.

Not just on MS, on plenty of other websites as well. It's an amazing album with a clear distinctive sound, every song is a killer, awesome artwork, awesome production (which is obvious...) and theres a reason why its considered a Thrash Classic. The other two are good as well, not just on the same level.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.08.2014 at 02:44

Copycat crap crap and crap. There is not a single modern day thrash band which is really good. No not even hyped Vektor

Again, mere personal opinion which is redudant to the point. Those 3 bands can be considered sucessfull in the nowadays Thrash scene and have quite a following.

Written by deadone on 21.08.2014 at 02:22

Written by [user id=151504] on 20.08.2014 at 21:08

I like Kreator a little more, mainly because throughout Kreator has been more solid

Did you like Renewal, Cause for Conflict and Outcast? I thought Slayer's output was far better during this period than Kreator's. I do have a soft spot for Endorama as it reminds me of late 1990s Megadeth!

Not a big fan, but neither do I like the same era Slayer's stuff that much. As far as old thrash bands experimentation in the 90's went, I think Kreator did relatively well. I may be in the minority, but post-2000 Kreator sounds fantastic to me. They were able to add this whole new epic texture to their music, while remaining heavy and even brutal for thrash metal. This is actually the main reason I voted for them and I guess saying that they've been "more solid throughout" was a bit of an overstatement. So I'll take that back.

Well I read some of Marcel comments and figured we will never agree on thrash (may be some exceptions)... "By Inheritance" is not overrated, it's good. There's a reason why people like it man, it's not cause you think something is overrated that it is, get over it man.
Now for your comment on Modern Thrash Bands, here a soap box old man *Throws*. You can't just go *All new thrash bands SUCK! Because I think So* No man, there's a lot of very good young thrashers. I don't care one bit for your nostalgia... especially if it makes you go bat shit crazy when it comes to new thrash. According to you we should just bury thrash with the old fucks... Well fuck that. Oh and btw Vektor's amazing. And I do agree with you on R.I.P, I'd rather listen to Punishment, No More Color and Mental Vortex any day.

Now for the thread, I can't believe Kreator is winning this, I mean I love Kreator but they are actually winning over Slayer
That's like... incredible.

Written by deadone on 22.08.2014 at 01:45

Written by [user id=151504] on 21.08.2014 at 19:51

Not a big fan, but neither do I like the same era Slayer's stuff that much. As far as old thrash bands experimentation in the 90's went, I think Kreator did relatively well. I may be in the minority, but post-2000 Kreator sounds fantastic to me. They were able to add this whole new epic texture to their music, while remaining heavy and even brutal for thrash metal. This is actually the main reason I voted for them and I guess saying that they've been "more solid throughout" was a bit of an overstatement. So I'll take that back.

I totally agree Kreator did really well in the post-2000s and much better than Slayer. I do prefer Slayer's 1990s output to most of Kreator's 1990s output. I really disliked their industrial/hardcore/groove tinkerings for the most part. It's not because they stopped playing Thrash (I like Load and Youthanasia) but I just don't like Kreator's stuff of that period. It sounds too souless.

Yeah, I completely understand your point of view.

On a side note, while not bad albums I don't dig Loads at all, aside from few songs, and even Black Album sounds a little repetitive. Megadeth on the other hand did some cool sounding albums in the 90s (even Cryptic Writings is ok), despite Risk which is too poppy. And RiP is obviously excluded also from the 90s tinkering list, which is probably my favorite thrash album of all times.

Actually that's why I have such a hard time deciding on who to vote for. I prefer Slayer's back catalog, but Kreator's quality is better spread across their discography. It becomes a battle of condensed quality vs longevity.

Kreator. Slayer and Kreator were head-to-head in the early years, but Kreator just kept cranking up great stuff. Slayer has been hit and miss.

Written by Z1N1 on 03.05.2015 at 05:12

Kreator. Slayer and Kreator were head-to-head in the early years, but Kreator just kept cranking up great stuff. Slayer has been hit and miss.

yes and Kreator survive dbecause they had 2 gothic albums what makes them come back to thrash genre heavyer, Slayer plays same, in 90's and that's same sounds lame... Kerry King must be kicked out and some other guitarist come in
Kreator after Endorama , has no problems whit thrash

Kreator

Written by deadone on 04.05.2015 at 03:18

Written by Bad English on 03.05.2015 at 12:52


yes and Kreator survive dbecause they had 2 gothic albums what makes them come back to thrash genre heavyer, Slayer plays same, in 90's and that's same sounds lame...

Slayer got heavier, more hardcore and more groove metal in 1990s. I much prefer Divine Intervention and Diabolus In Musica (and cover album Undisputed Attitude) than any of the indutrial/goth crap Kreator put out in the 1990s. Endorama was good but I still prefer Slayer.

Even Coma Of Souls is nowhere near as good as Seasons In The Abyss.

By the way I think Kreator's Endless Pain is phenomenal and better than anything Slayer has done save Reign In Blood.

And looking at Kreator v Slayer in the 1980s, Slayer wins. Slayer never released such average albums as Terrible Certainty in 1980s.

I'd say:

1980s - Slayer (close but Slayer wins)
1990s - Slayer (by miles)
2000s - Kreator (by miles even though they've just kept releasing versions of Enemy of God every couple of years)

And from an individual song writing perspective, Slayer slaughters Kreator. Slayer has far more memorable songs that Kreator. And even today when Slayer gets it shit together (e.g. World Painted Blood), the songs are far more memorable, far more intense and far more individual than Kreator whose modern songs blur into one another.



I still love both bands, but upon reflection I prefer Slayer for the all reasons above.

Agreed

Written by deadone on 22.08.2014 at 01:45

Written by [user id=151504] on 21.08.2014 at 19:51

Not a big fan, but neither do I like the same era Slayer's stuff that much. As far as old thrash bands experimentation in the 90's went, I think Kreator did relatively well. I may be in the minority, but post-2000 Kreator sounds fantastic to me. They were able to add this whole new epic texture to their music, while remaining heavy and even brutal for thrash metal. This is actually the main reason I voted for them and I guess saying that they've been "more solid throughout" was a bit of an overstatement. So I'll take that back.

I totally agree Kreator did really well in the post-2000s and much better than Slayer. I do prefer Slayer's 1990s output to most of Kreator's 1990s output. I really disliked their industrial/hardcore/groove tinkerings for the most part. It's not because they stopped playing Thrash (I like Load and Youthanasia) but I just don't like Kreator's stuff of that period. It sounds too souless.

yes, totally agree with you guys
post 2000 Kreator are best then Slayer
Slayer are amazing in 90. New Slayer stuff are good but no as old ones

Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 12:54

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.04.2012 at 15:40

Written by Branzig on 27.04.2012 at 15:37

It's funny how it seems that mostly European dudes are picking Kreator and State side guys are picking Slayer.

Demographic much?

Slayer all the way. Most overrated thrash is imo German thrash. Europe didn't have that many good thrash bands at all back then and still to this day. Worst country of course being England with only Sabbat being great and Onslaught being okay.
American thrash all the way.

that has to be highly exagerated.

I m european and I usually prefer teutonic thrash but... in this case... I vote for Slayer

I love Kreator, but Slayer shits on them.

Guys I do believe Slayer slay Kreator twice a day+ how many time is it for life?;D

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.08.2014 at 02:44

Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 22:44



And nowadays Europe has Evile, Angelus Apatrida and Lost Society so...yeah

Copycat crap crap and crap. There is not a single modern day thrash band which is really good. No not even hyped Vektor

That is true. Thrash is dead. It has been dead for at least 25 years and it will never resusitate. Get over it. And to answer the question, Slayer all the fuckin way.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 21.08.2014 at 02:44

Written by raveneffect on 19.08.2014 at 22:44

, "By Inheritance"

The single most overrated album here on MS and by far the weakest by Atillery of their first three. And the other two weren;t that gret either to be honest.

I thought you was an Artillery fan haha