Written by AtDawnTheySquee on 23.02.2014 at 00:01

Well Lifelover aren't active anymore because they guy died sadly, but they had post-punk influences and even poppy elements in their music.

Elvis died like 50 years ago .. so Mozard died like 3 centuries ago .

Written by Bad English on 23.02.2014 at 14:36
Elvis died like 50 years ago .. so Mozard died like 3 centuries ago .

What does this have to do with anything?

Written by Troy Killjoy on 23.02.2014 at 14:51

Written by Bad English on 23.02.2014 at 14:36
Elvis died like 50 years ago .. so Mozard died like 3 centuries ago .

What does this have to do with anything?

that guy said lifevlover dude died and ... well seems he tryd conince when ppl died music is bad something

Written by Bad English on 23.02.2014 at 14:57
that guy said lifevlover dude died and ... well seems he tryd conince when ppl died music is bad something

All he said was that Lifelover aren't active anymore because of B's death.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 23.02.2014 at 15:41

Written by Bad English on 23.02.2014 at 14:57
that guy said lifevlover dude died and ... well seems he tryd conince when ppl died music is bad something

All he said was that Lifelover aren't active anymore because of B's death.

Yea, that's exactly what I said. Why else would they not be active?

Written by AtDawnTheySquee on 24.02.2014 at 03:46


Yea, that's exactly what I said. Why else would they not be active?

yes if a band member dies there is just no possible way to carry on

Written by [user id=136611] on 24.02.2014 at 06:35

Written by AtDawnTheySquee on 24.02.2014 at 03:46


Yea, that's exactly what I said. Why else would they not be active?

yes if a band member dies there is just no possible way to carry on

they wouldn't be the same though

There's still BM bands with the same lyrical themes as in the late 80's/early 90's, but that cold chilling sound that we know from the bands of what you call the second wave. I don't really regard Venom as BM. I will agree that they used the term, but they still played thrash in my opinion. A buddy of mine from Germany occationally sends me links to awesome metal from the eastern parts of Germany, Czech Rep., and so on. Still bands playing in the same BM style that emerged in the early 90's. But every genre grows and evolves into other subgenres, so defining what is BM today, is a difficult task. I can name numerous Norwegian bands that considers their own music as BM, despite the fact that theyt sound quite different from what we know from the 90's.

Written by toxx on 24.02.2014 at 08:53

There's still BM bands with the same lyrical themes as in the late 80's/early 90's, but that cold chilling sound that we know from the bands of what you call the second wave. I don't really regard Venom as BM. I will agree that they used the term, but they still played thrash in my opinion. A buddy of mine from Germany occationally sends me links to awesome metal from the eastern parts of Germany, Czech Rep., and so on. Still bands playing in the same BM style that emerged in the early 90's. But every genre grows and evolves into other subgenres, so defining what is BM today, is a difficult task. I can name numerous Norwegian bands that considers their own music as BM, despite the fact that theyt sound quite different from what we know from the 90's.

IMO Bathory was the first black metal band, not Venom.

Written by AtDawnTheySquee on 26.02.2014 at 03:39


IMO Bathory was the first black metal band, not Venom.

I agree, though the question of who defined the genre must be asked as well. Who was the first band that played pure black metal?

Written by toxx on 26.02.2014 at 09:04

Written by AtDawnTheySquee on 26.02.2014 at 03:39


IMO Bathory was the first black metal band, not Venom.

I agree, though the question of who defined the genre must be asked as well. Who was the first band that played pure black metal?

idk probably Mayhem or Morbid

What are you guys meaning when you say "pure" black metal?
Is it the second wave black metal? Tremolo picking on guitars? harsh vocals? Because if you consider first wave bm as pure bm, then it was Venom, wasn't it?

Written by Karlabos on 28.02.2014 at 03:40

What are you guys meaning when you say "pure" black metal?
Is it the second wave black metal? Tremolo picking on guitars? harsh vocals? Because if you consider first wave bm as pure bm, then it was Venom, wasn't it?

Yes, if we consider the first wave to be what defines Black Metal as a genre, then Venom is pure black metal. But what does the bands of the second wave and up until today play?

I think the bands of the first wave was more like a link between "older" genres, and what was imo refined and molded in to black metal as we know it today. Venom, Bathory and also Hellhammer and early Celtic Frost laid the foundation for a Black Metal as we know it today. Mayhem, amongst others, brought the sound of these bands a step further, and BM in it's purest form was born in the latter half of the 80's. Again, this is my opinion/theory, and I know there are many other opinions about this subject

Pure bm is sound what immortal, taake, mayhem, burzum is playing,m its a fact as we all die. simple as that

Mayhem, Immortal and Burzum are hardly pure black metal nowadays.

It could be argued that Mayhem and Burzum were never "pure," as far as Immortal is concerned, they never really gave much shit.

@toxx
Well, it hardly manners anymore who did what, since like I keep saying, the era of BM as both a cultural and musical significance is over, we only have the music style, which keeps changing with each newer band, as any "genre" should. Honestly, at this point we are arguing semantics. If we looked at the era of each band, Celtic Frost, Mayhem, Burzum, Hellhammer, Bathory etc., each had its place in a specific timeframe, now, the place is among all other bands and styles that came before it. For instance, people use to listen to Jazz, Blues, Rock'N'Roll which later spawned Glam, Cock Rock and other musical styles, but you look at the music today, and we can hardly say that the newer generations understand the importance of Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton or any band from that era, since it was a different generation of people and like most music (except the Classical which withstood the stamp of time) it slowly but surely will become less and less important, and just another sound or style that bit the dust. I know what you going to say, "BM will never be forgotten" and you are right, it will not, but if we look 30-40 years from now, who will understand the music for real? Who will know what it meant back then? That is all I am saying. BM is going into new directions, and we have to decide what "label" we will put on them. Are we looking for sound and image, lyrics and relevance, old style versus new style? Honestly, will it matter 10-20 years from now? Does it matter now?

Instead of opening another topic, I just throw it in here. Could one call Botanist black metal? Yes / no? Why so?

Written by Fallen Ghost on 25.03.2014 at 08:22

Instead of opening another topic, I just throw it in here. Could one call Botanist black metal? Yes / no? Why so?

If I found the right "Botanist" on youtube, I would say that it has more elements of doom than black metal. So, no, I don't think one could call it BM.

Written by toxx on 25.03.2014 at 13:20

If I found the right "Botanist" on youtube, I would say that it has more elements of doom than black metal. So, no, I don't think one could call it BM.

You probably got some of his later stuff, his first album(s) are definitely black metal I'd say, only without guitars.

Strange that you can play black metal without the usual instruments and the bm "elements" will still remain on the songs. I don't think I'd recognize unplugged "death metal" for instance, unless for the vocals.
I still can't tell exactly what those "elements" are though...

Written by Karlabos on 25.03.2014 at 13:59

Strange that you can play black metal without the usual instruments and the bm "elements" will still remain on the songs. I don't think I'd recognize unplugged "death metal" for instance, unless for the vocals.
I still can't tell exactly what those "elements" are though...

Think it's good proof that metal is not incumbent on having guitars. Admittedly the drums and vocals are pretty integral in identifying the black metal elements, but it's an effective experiment I'd say.

Written by [user id=4365] on 25.03.2014 at 13:38


You probably got some of his later stuff, his first album(s) are definitely black metal I'd say, only without guitars.

This is more like it! Strange stuff. Never heard it before, but it sounds like BM. Has the same feel to it, but the guitar has been replaced. Could call it BM, for sure, but I would throw the "experimental" label in there as well.

Written by toxx on 25.03.2014 at 14:04

This is more like it! Strange stuff. Never heard it before, but it sounds like BM. Has the same feel to it, but the guitar has been replaced. Could call it BM, for sure, but I would throw the "experimental" label in there as well.

It's pretty enjoyable stuff. Would probably be quite generic if you were with guitars, but changing the most major component makes it fresh again.

Written by [user id=4365] on 25.03.2014 at 14:02

Admittedly the drums and vocals are pretty integral in identifying the black metal elements

I think this also is strange: For instance if you pick bands like Ekpyrosis or Raate you get black metal with clean vocals. Or Aluk Todolo for instrumental bm. So the vocals aren't essential for doing bm as well.
Also some Nortt or Gnaw Their Tongues stuff don't have the characteristical drums and are often classified as black metal. Meaning that even that isn't essential.
So: Drums aren't essential, neither vocals, neither guitars... So.. what is, lol?

Anyway if you take all of these out I don't think anyone will be calling it black metal anymore.

Written by [user id=4365] on 25.03.2014 at 14:05

It's pretty enjoyable stuff. Would probably be quite generic if you were with guitars, but changing the most major component makes it fresh again.

It is indeed! I think this is a good example of what BM can be nowadays.

Written by Karlabos on 25.03.2014 at 14:16

I think this also is strange: For instance if you pick bands like Ekpyrosis or Raate you get black metal with clean vocals. Or Aluk Todolo for instrumental bm. So the vocals aren't essential for doing bm as well.
Also some Nortt or Gnaw Their Tongues stuff don't have the characteristical drums and are often classified as black metal. Meaning that even that isn't essential.
So: Drums aren't essential, neither vocals, neither guitars... So.. what is, lol?

Anyway if you take all of these out I don't think anyone will be calling it black metal anymore.

Well that's probably why black metal is the most varied and versatile genre beause it encompasses so much, much of which is often beyond identification.

Written by [user id=4365] on 25.03.2014 at 14:18

Written by Karlabos on 25.03.2014 at 14:16

I think this also is strange: For instance if you pick bands like Ekpyrosis or Raate you get black metal with clean vocals. Or Aluk Todolo for instrumental bm. So the vocals aren't essential for doing bm as well.
Also some Nortt or Gnaw Their Tongues stuff don't have the characteristical drums and are often classified as black metal. Meaning that even that isn't essential.
So: Drums aren't essential, neither vocals, neither guitars... So.. what is, lol?

Anyway if you take all of these out I don't think anyone will be calling it black metal anymore.

Well that's probably why black metal is the most varied and versatile genre beause it encompasses so much, much of which is often beyond identification.

So, it's kind of necessary to place bands into subgenres then. A lot of bands are difficult to define, but if every band were to be labeled as BM... well.. Would be a mess wouldn't it.

Written by toxx on 25.03.2014 at 14:30

So, it's kind of necessary to place bands into subgenres then. A lot of bands are difficult to define, but if every band were to be labeled as BM... well.. Would be a mess wouldn't it.

You could get away with it for thrash, and *maybe* a few other genres, but definitely not black metal. Burzum don't sound anything like Deathspell Omega so a little bit of subgenre-ing is pretty much necessary!

Written by toxx on 25.03.2014 at 14:30

So, it's kind of necessary to place bands into subgenres then. A lot of bands are difficult to define, but if every band were to be labeled as BM... well.. Would be a mess wouldn't it.

Yes, and so they are. There are lotsa black metal subgenres. Some people even argue that they are useless or too many, but the more I know, the more I'm convinced that almost all of the existing ones are valid.
But even the subgenres should have the essential elements of the genre of which they are "sub". But it's hard to identify it on black metal.

This leads me to the question: Who plays BM in it's simplest/purest form today? Is there any bands that still sounds like it's 1990?