Great article
I suggest deadone and Rasputin have a look at it.

Written by mz on 15.01.2015 at 01:18

Great article
I suggest deadone and Rasputin have a look at it.

Recently read that and I have to agree with you 100%... although I would say everyone should read it

Written by mz on 15.01.2015 at 01:18

Great article
I suggest deadone and Rasputin have a look at it.

Lies damn lies and statistics.
Grouping acts of ideological vandalism and suicide bombings or beheadings? How many people were killed in the EU (referring to the less than 2 percent link) the last few years by religiously motivated Muslims compared to any other ideological group?
Grouping car accidents and ideological murders? Car accidents tragically happen, society tries best to prevent them, yet they don't target political/social structures or threat specific people for drawing cartoons/film who disobey religious blasphemy laws.
No other ideological has managed to get a country like France to mobilize 88,000 troops on its own soil and constantly raise UK's terror threat.

No, Islamic religious extremists isn't the be all and end all of security threats (in particular not in quantity), but is most definitely one of the most severe, if not the most.

A comic relief, this guy has "followers".

My face while reading that link about the neckbeard dude was literally the same as your avatar.

Written by deadone on 15.01.2015 at 00:40

Written by Rasputin on 14.01.2015 at 22:41

EU will burn by the end

I think EU will collapse but not only because of Islam but rather because the EU doesn't really work and because EU integrationism was reversed when the Dutch and French voted against the EU constitution. Since then EU has collapsed economically with only Germany propping most of it's economies up. Greece is teetering on the edge and the British are over it.

The EU was never going to work as a unified nation/federation and it was always going to struggle economically as it grew:

1. A lot of people don't like the undermining of national sovereignty, especially to what is considered by many to be an incompetent bureaucracy in Brussels.

And when economies fail, nationalism and scapegoating emerge.


2. EU partners states have extremely differing economic needs. For example the less developed EU states require low interest rates to keep economic growth chugging along whilst the more developed ones require higher interest rates to keep inflation low.

This makes economic and monetary policy difficult to implement and will always cause friction.

3. The integration of Eastern Europe drew in a lot of undeveloped economies with massive problems - lack of appropriate regulatory mechanisms, massive corruption, unstable democratic systems (e.g. Hungary and Bulgaria) and decades worth of engrained economic inefficiencies. Some also have questionable human rights records that have been unresolved (Croatia and it's ethnic cleansing of Serbs, Latvia and Estonia with their discriminated Russian minorities).

Basically they let in a whole heap of Greek type economies in.


4. EU promotes gross economic inefficiency e.g. Common Agircultural Policy subsidies which promote extremely innefficient agricultural practices. This costs the governments a lot of money and arguably has some impact on cost of fresh food and creates massive waste.

I agree. I am just saying that before that massive collapse happens and fragmentation, we will see an increase in terrorist activity, because they will not go down peacefully. This also begs the question, when the economy shatters, and for some of its members it is already not looking too good, how long will it be before various factions take the advantage of it, and piggy back their agendas. We saw Muslim fundamentalism when Yugoslavia fragmented, I would not expect anything less, especially from the people who moved from very rigorous backgrounds and very basic teachings. Either way, it does not look good.

People keep complaining about the rise of NAZI groups, which I think is the result of what you listed already, however it is also part xenophobia (some it justified) and part of the Muslims not conforming and embracing the culture and country they moved to. So each feed each other.


As far as the article is concerned, it is bullshit. Yes, we have other terrorists running around, but while those terrorists operate like IRA did on a national level, Muslims operate in almost every country, and when you check the dead body toll, it is really not that hard to see who causes the most damage, and who should be watched the most. Muslims want Islam to dominate the world, while other groups want separation or dominance in their countries exclusevely with some exceptions of course.

You and I deadone kept saying and explaining, and people just don't want to admit and get it. We don't care that not all Muslims are terrorists, we care that the core teaching, the base of their belief is driven by death and hate, and that ends any discussion. There are no Moderates and there are no radicals, there are only Muslims, period.

Again deadone, great point. This goes back to what I was saying before, they are nice and peaceful until they get the numbers. I doubt that caused any ruckus in Australia initially, until they got their own zones where if you are not a Muslim you are in deep shit. I just read an article, I will see if I can find it, in USA there is a city where non Muslim women have to cover their hair because the bus station is so close to the Muslim ghetto. This is just unacceptable, but it still happens because liberals scream bloody murder, they protect the ones who will oppress them in the end. Allegedly, aside from the known Muslim stronghold in Dearborn Michigan, they have a large community in Texas, California, Pennsylvania and New York, which is slowly but surely turning into a "no go" zone. Coincidence, I think not.

I keep asking people to explain that to me, and they simply cannot because they have no information, they draw a wrong parallel between Xtianity and Islam, and they believe that it was hijacked by these terrorists, but it is funny how much cognitive dissonance occurs, even when you show them the verses of violence where Muhammad himself demands death of non believers. I have never seen so much stupidity. Not to sound like a skinhead or anything, but the white race is already becoming the minority, because of those demographics where less and less white people in EU and other places are reproducing. I hate to see the world 30 years from now, it will look like shit.

Not going to linger or revisit this thread, don't feel like getting terribly engaged.

a Saudi cleric gives us all a reason to laugh by declaring a fucking fatwa on building snowmen.

Snowmen.

imagine if some infidel were to sculpt a snow woman.

Written by deadone on 16.01.2015 at 05:47

And lastly some very old observations of Islam from prominent western thinkers dating back to as as early as 18th century:

http://www.commdiginews.com/world-news/history-greatest-thinkers-islamic-extremism-33385/

What we're dealing with is a centuries old and has in many ways not moved on since 622 AD!

Indeed the best line comes from Sir William Muir (19th century historian):

Quote:
As a Reformer, Mahomet did advance his people to a certain point, but as a Prophet he left them fixed immovably at that point for all time to come."

And Churchill whose obsession with Middle East is well known:

Quote:
The Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. It was originally propagated by the sword above the people of all other creeds, to this form of madness. The more generous spirits become convulsed in an ecstasy of religious bloodthirstiness?and derive additional impulses from the influence of others, the hopes of plunder and the joy of fighting. Thus whole nations are roused to arms."

Excellent historical reference. I am not fan of Churchill, but I wonder where the hell are the other people in power that think like him? I don't think the majority of politicians have read enough books or any books for that matter aside from prescribed Political Science and whatnot reading.

And to comment Cold's comment, that is what I was talking about, if at whim, you can issue a "fatwa" what is stopping you to issue one that is far worse? Even if for a second we say that Islam dominates any country in EU, and let's say that all of them are "moderates" as the West and dumbass liberals like to call them, does anyone truly expect and believe that they will step in and stop the "radical" Muslims from doing mass murder, rape or terrorism? They have not done it in any country in the world, they sure as fuck do no look like they will start now. But, oh wait, we have "protests' and slogan chanting, that will regrow someones head and heal the injured, burned or stoned woman or non muslim.

Right.

I've watched a two hour documentary on the history of the Kurds and their implication in the present conflict with ISIS just two days ago. I just wish Arte (French/German independant channel) provided subtitles, I would have shared it here. As deadone said, it's proof Islam in general isn't incompatible with gender equality. There are cultural/ethnic factors that are at play that change even the treatment a woman gets in the street. I get harassed, insulted, and even molested in the North, and when I was living in the South (with a dominant Berber and Tuareg population), those attacks - which they are - were extremely rare and minimal. It's funny how Kadhafi used to repeat all the time that Arabs need to be educated. He was so fucking right.

Written by BitterCOld on 17.01.2015 at 04:11

fucking fatwa on building snowmen.

Someone found a snowman erotic?

Written by Ilham on 12.02.2015 at 01:30

There are cultural/ethnic factors that are at play that change even the treatment a woman gets in the street.

It's in culture of Kurds, you know they're so much into a woman-oriented structure.

Written by deadone on 12.02.2015 at 05:17

I think the Arabs and a few others (Pakistanis, Afghanis, some Muslim Africans etc etc) don't just need education. They need cultural and economic revolution. And for some reason even moving to the West doesn't necessarily change their way of thinking (but then moving to Australia and living there for 30 years didn't stop my reasonably well educated parents being socialist, primitive, homophobic Yugo-Balkanites who hated Australian culture).

I do think the biggest impediment to Islamic change is the dominance of ultra-conservative oil gulf states and particularly Saudi Arabia that has 2 of the most holiest sites of Islam in it. Their oil dollars and perceived success promote the growth of fundamentalist Islam

Incidentally the Kurds don't like Arabs much.

Indeed, totally true. But there was a time when things looked brighter. Before 9/11, I remember my parents talking about how everything seemed to get better (at least in Morocco), and with the little perspective I had, I could see change: the laws concerning women were completely re-written towards equality, you could see more women in higher places, on TV, etc. In the street every woman was dressed as if it were fashion week. That cultural revolution was happening. I think that was partly imputable to something Morocco has always done: following the example of another Arab country. At the time, Lebanon (and to a certain extent Syria) was in peace and thriving both economically and culturally. Every movie, every song produced over there was immediately imported here. And Lebanese women were known for being more emancipated than the Moroccan ones.

Now that every Middle-East country that Morocco followed is practically destroyed, the only cultural example Moroccans are following are those dickheads in the UAE and Saudi Arabia. Now every music clip is a guy with a bunch of other ones dancing behind him in a Bedouin tent singing about whatever. We don't have Syrian and Lebanese comedies (they were seriously hilarious) on TV anymore, now it's those Saudi tragedies that always involve a woman that has to follow what her family/husband wants her to do. And in the street, exit the fake blondes with huge sunglasses and ostensible make-up, now the only thing I see is those ugly long "modest" black dresses + veil that were used to be worn only in some parts of ME.

Of course there are other factors, I just find it interesting to talk about little details like TV, fashion, and music. It shows how deep in shit we are, how fast that cultural revolution was reversed.

Written by angel. on 12.02.2015 at 12:33

It's in culture of Kurds, you know they're so much into a woman-oriented structure.

Indeed, it's always been one of their strengths.

Written by deadone on 18.02.2015 at 06:55

Interesting article on ISIS and it's foundation in the original teachings of Mohammad:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

excellent article. i wonder when they isis will distinct all apostales of the world, long road, probably i wont meet they isis, probably i wont live long to see them or they cant live long to see me as their finish sacrify.. but speaking frankly, if they meet communist namese haha only superman survive.. imagine why soviet, china, nam has more than 70 years to endure, being brainwashing both physical and mentally,..communist still toughest murders.

Written by deadone on 19.03.2015 at 06:56

And yet another Islamist massacre - this time 19 tourists in a Tunisian museum killed and more than 40 wounded.

http://www.voanews.com/content/tunisian-parliament-calls-day-of-solidarity-after-deadly-attack/2686487.html

What appalls me about this and the whole IS, Taliban, terror, fundamentalist thing is why doesn't the supposedly "moderate" Islamic community do something more to deradicalise. Probably coz they don't care about dead infidels. And maybe cause their most powerful political and religious leaders (aka Saudis, Qatars, Emiris, Pakistanis and likes of Erdogan) actually support this kind of behaviour behind close doors.

It's probably like that... they know they can't really do that themselves but they're not against others doing the dirty work with relatively pleasing results...
I read that for example the Sunni inhabitants of Mosul didn't really have anything against the IS terror because they weren't the primary targets... and as they probably didn't really love the Shia, Christians, Yazidis, and others either, then it means that if there was any change for them, it was rather somewhat positive because someone got rid of their annoying "different" neighbours for them... Silent approval of crimes is atrocious...

I still remember how one Lybian classmate tried to explain to me how wrong my understanding of the world and God was... Fuck yeah, I don't walk around telling others how the way they live is wrong... but looks like there are a lot of people who think exactly the opposite... And then you do realise that whenever something awful happens, these people will probably say "Oh yes... it sure is tragic... but they had it coming!"

Written by deadone on 19.03.2015 at 06:56

What appalls me about this and the whole IS, Taliban, terror, fundamentalist thing is why doesn't the supposedly "moderate" Islamic community do something more to deradicalise. Probably coz they don't care about dead infidels. And maybe cause their most powerful political and religious leaders (aka Saudis, Qatars, Emiris, Pakistanis and likes of Erdogan) actually support this kind of behaviour behind close doors.

I agree that at civil level the moderate islamic community could do more. But it's clear that during the last years/months (mainly with ISIS related actions) there has been a significant increase of muslim speaking out/rejecting/protesting against fundamentalism, something that was (almost?) non existant before Taliban/ISIS/whatevergroup showed up
Obviously main medias won't voice such things as much as atrocious murders coz morbid news make cooler headlines, still there has been a change in this aspect.

Also at a political level I think there are quite a few changes. The threat of ISIS makes countries like Iran, Israel, Syria, USA,etc... fight a common foe which is quite interesting considering the position they regard each other. The fact that ISIS targets certain muslim communities make it clear that said muslims can't keep on being passive.

Written by deadone on 19.03.2015 at 23:38


The Americans are still keen on toppling Assad. They're training 5,000 rebel fighters in Saudi Arabia and are clearly spying on Syrian military assets - the Syrians just shot down a US drone near key Syrian naval facilities in Latakia. The American action against IS is pathetic - token air power and token training. There's no real military commitment to destroying IS, let alone political willpower to solve the Iraqi and Syrian messes (ie Shiastan, Kurdistan ann Sunnistan).
Whatever good stuff Obama is trying in Iran is offset by the fact that US main goals (including that of most Republicans and many Democrats) is toppling Assad in Syria, destroying Iranian influence and basically ensuring Saudi Sunni dominance in the region and allowing Israel to keep doing whatever the hell it's doing. In essence the US is a Saudi/Israeli puppet.
And Israel is not fighting ISIS. Their actions in Syria have been anti-Syrian - blowing up Syrian government weapon depots and assassinating an Iranian special forces commander with some Hezbollah guys.

Yeah well, maybe there is no cooperation for now but they share the same goal (for different reasons) despite opposite positions on the international scene (which was my point). Plus USA don't seem that sure to topple Al-Assad anymore, at least they way they did. Kerry proposed again to negociate with Al-Assad/the regime as the only way out of the conflict (as in political, no military outcome), which this last one promptly dismissed (lol@usa).
And yep, got Israel wrong but the recent involvement of Jordan might change that quite soon as the situation will evolve quite a bit I guess (considering the conflict as it is now is nowhere near of a denouement so unless they want to let it linger, which I doubt, current stances should change significantly).

Written by deadone on 20.03.2015 at 03:56

An interesting article on increasing anti-Semitism in Europe. The right wing extremists are still perpetrators but the vast majority of the growing anti-Semitism is by muslims. And by the sounds of it, it's not done by just fundamentalist nutjobs but rather by a large spectrum of the Muslim community:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/03/is-it-time-for-the-jews-to-leave-europe/386279/

"Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?" - By Jeffrey Goldberg

Oh wow, a Jew writing about the supposed woes of the Jewish people. This is the pinnacle of unbiased, professional journalism right here.

Newsflash guys, I don't know what Europe you've all been living in, but for every member of the extreme Anti-Semitic right wing, there are 8+ members of leftist "all races are equal, but blacks and Jews are equal-er" movement.

The Jews and non-Caucasians are more protected in EU than polar bears and pandas combined, if we're going by the official government stances and actions. This article is just another play of the race(religion)-card game. White guilt is tearing Europe to shreds and there is no soil more fertile to spread this bullshit propaganda in.

Written by Slayer666 on 20.03.2015 at 14:44

"Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe?" - By Jeffrey Goldberg

Oh wow, a Jew writing about the supposed woes of the Jewish people. This is the pinnacle of unbiased, professional journalism right here.

Newsflash guys, I don't know what Europe you've all been living in, but for every member of the extreme Anti-Semitic right wing, there are 8+ members of leftist "all races are equal, but blacks and Jews are equal-er" movement.

The Jews and non-Caucasians are more protected in EU than polar bears and pandas combined, if we're going by the official government stances and actions. This article is just another play of the race(religion)-card game. White guilt is tearing Europe to shreds and there is no soil more fertile to spread this bullshit propaganda in.

You're committing the circumstantial ad-hominem fallacy. Either you show how the content is wrong or your going down the path of mistakes named in Latin.

"White guilt" is cheap inverted racism and the ultra-nationalism on that's on the rise in Europe is no less worst. I spent a year and two months in "racial anthropology" forums and neo-Nazi websites, nine months with European Marxists and I read European newspapers daily - all horde after the most nauseating ideas. The identity politics, collectivism and romanticism are common to the entire spectrum of European politics.

Just had a conversation with a Belgium friend who claims "Why Jews need military protection? So what if 1/10 people killed were Jews?" as if it's some random events. After that another friend from Sweden kicks in saying "but look what the Jews are doing to the Palestinians" regurgitating cheap collectivism as if 'Ze Jews' killed Jesus all over again. Meanwhile another friend from Ireland kicks in, rejecting the previous but blames the Jews again for it "should have spoken louder against Israel" lacking basic civility.

Yes, it's time for Jews to leave Europe as it always had been.
Jews should have left Europe entirety after World War I - they were overrepresented in every category including military officers and deaths per ethics group and still were blamed with the stab in the back myth. Which many Europeans still hold a variation of it today just like most classic antisemitic canards.

Otherwise, isn't the topic of this thread "Islam"?

Written by Candlemass on 20.03.2015 at 15:45

You're committing the circumstantial ad-hominem fallacy. Either you show how the content is wrong or your going down the path of mistakes named in Latin.

"White guilt" is cheap inverted racism and the ultra-nationalism on that's on the rise in Europe is no less worst. I spent a year and two months in "racial anthropology" forums and neo-Nazi websites, nine months with European Marxists and I read European newspapers daily - all horde after the most nauseating ideas. The identity politics, collectivism and romanticism are common to the entire spectrum of European politics.

Just had a conversation with a Belgium friend who claims "Why Jews need military protection? So what if 1/10 people killed were Jews?" as if it's some random events. After that another friend from Sweden kicks in saying "but look what the Jews are doing to the Palestinians" regurgitating cheap collectivism as if 'Ze Jews' killed Jesus all over again. Meanwhile another friend from Ireland kicks in, rejecting the previous but blames the Jews again for it "should have spoken louder against Israel" lacking basic civility.

Yes, it's time for Jews to leave Europe as it always had been.
Jews should have left Europe entirety after World War I - they were overrepresented in every category including military officers and deaths per ethics group and still were blamed with the stab in the back myth. Which many Europeans still hold a variation of it today just like most classic antisemitic canards.

Otherwise, isn't the topic of this thread "Islam"?

Yes, I'm sure that every act of racist Neanthertals all over the world are actually acts of Antisemitism and not acts of total morons who barely have any idea of what they're actually doing.

I realize this is a touchy topic for you, as you're probably a Jew yourself, but this whole Antisemitism thing is blown so far out of proportion it's fucking ridiculous. Every single Jew-opposing group numbers a pitiful few thousand members, which gain some semblance of prominence by being very vocal. That doesn't mean they're relevant at-fucking-all.

It simply means they make for good sensationalist news.

As for "white guilt being inverted racism" statement you've made, I can only assume your head is so far up your own ass you can't tell up from down. Yes, white guilt is very real amongst the Western mainstream media and propaganda. It takes someone with room temperature IQ (the majority of people) not to see it.

Written by Slayer666 on 20.03.2015 at 16:30

Yes, I'm sure that every act of racist Neanthertals all over the world are actually acts of Antisemitism and not acts of total morons who barely have any idea of what they're actually doing.

A. Not what I claimed.
B. Being a moron does not contradict with being an antisemite.
C. Well articulated and educated hate exists and it isn't new, not against blacks, gays or Jews.

Written by Slayer666 on 20.03.2015 at 16:30

I realize this is a touchy topic for you, as you're probably a Jew yourself, but this whole Antisemitism thing is blown so far out of proportion it's fucking ridiculous. Every single Jew-opposing group numbers a pitiful few thousand members, which gain some semblance of prominence by being very vocal. That doesn't mean they're relevant at-fucking-all.

Indeed blown out of proportions but in different way. Jews are ~1% out of French population and suffer from ~50% of racist attacks including the most violent ones -- and it gets minimized, rationalized and trivialized by the vast of European politics. No one wants to hear about it. The right doesn't want to think about sub-communities with its dreams of purity and the left 'multiculturalists' don't want to hear their hellish utopia is failing.

Written by Slayer666 on 20.03.2015 at 16:30

As for "white guilt being inverted racism" statement you've made, I can only assume your head is so far up your own ass you can't tell up from down. Yes, white guilt is very real amongst the Western mainstream media and propaganda. It takes someone with room temperature IQ (the majority of people) not to see it.

Why so aggressive honey? I agreed with you. These are some interesting comments you may agree with. If anything I empathize with French conservatism and not the post-colonial left.
Like I implied I'm not a collectivist, not for the better (taking credit for the work of people who died before I was even born) or worst (white guilt) and it's a complicated issue.


isn't this "Islam" thread?

Like Candlemass said "isn't this the "Islam" thread?

So keep it on the subject of Islam, please.

Written by Candlemass on 20.03.2015 at 17:30

A. Not what I claimed.

In that case, I apologize, your claim was kinda vague.

Quote:

B. Being a moron does not contradict with being an antisemite.

True enough, but hateful morons according to statistics don't make a very relevant population sampling. Hell, even here in "backwards-as-fuck" Serbia people are generally content with the "live and let live" attitude, with a small but very vocal "kill all fags/Jews/blacks/whatever" minority causing trouble.

I'm somewhat ashamed to admit I was one of the said minority, until I've met a couple of Jewish, black and Mongoloid people at college who came there from all over the world and I concluded that they're all pretty cool dudes/dudettes. It's kinda hard to hate someone when you spend 10+ hours per day with them listening and discussing about differential equations, recursive algorithms and the polymorphism principles in C++.

So why is small retarded minority given such a massive part in the media? Because sensationalism fucking sells and that's why every media outlet focuses solely on it.

Quote:

Why so aggressive honey?

Because I'm so fucking tired of mainstream media telling me I'm a monster rapist white-supremacist for being born a Caucasian male and my supposed part in the oppression of black/Jews/what the fuck ever. Because of white guilt, because of retarded "journalist" articles like the ones you've linked.

Well articulated. One an Ex-Muslim (an Atheist), Faisal Saeed Al Mutar and another a Muslims reformist, Maajid Namaz:

"Self hating white liberals should be using their privilege not to avoid the topic of Islam so they wont appear "racists" but rather support reformers and fellow liberals in the Muslim world." - Faisal Saeed Al Mutar

Maajid Namaz:



Meanwhile in Ireland an ex-Muslim is not allowed to give a talk: "Activist pulls out of Trinity College talk due to 'restrictions' aimed at not 'antagonising' Muslims".

Written by deadone on 24.03.2015 at 02:23

We have turned our own values into a weapon against ourselves. And in the end that's what Mr Al Mutar's comments are about - we need true freedom of speech, true freedom of religiom, true freedom of sexuality.

It's a systematic ideological choice, not a pragmatic one and it's against all ex-Muslims and Muslim reformists. All of the above I mentioned had issues with official institutions in Europe
and public left wing figures in continental Europe and the UK.

They perceive Muslims as the new "weak" tribe in their post-colonial framework that need extra protection on ideological grounds even from mere offense in any context and that's group that contains sub-group produces the most violent offenders against other groups.
She receives regular death threats and the people who sent them were allowed to give a talk at the same academic institution justifying the killing (murder in Western societies) of apostates - all this does not taint their ideological convictions one little bit.

"And so the whitewash begins" she writes on her Facebook page - as the Irish times and other bastions of the Irish left try to blame the cancellation on her.

Written by deadone on 24.03.2015 at 02:23

I've never had a problem with say Hindus or Buddhists or Jews or most Christians in the West. They generally allow freedom or at least the freedom to disengage from the religion. I know Christian gay men who've been married by priests even if the government doesn't allow gay marriage. That's true freedom - they have their god and their sexuality.

The treatment is different. It is expected from them, especially in France and the US to find a sweet spot between integration and assimilation so of course they do better. The they are not kept in ghettos living off welfare. Have you read the hilarious statistics in Denmark that caused a debate in Denmark?
" just one out of every four refugees who came to Denmark between 2000-2003 was employed ten years later. " So no the Danish are correcting their rhetoric accordingly.
Although ideology plays an explicit and poverty as best a secondary-factor part it will be denied as well.

Written by deadone on 24.03.2015 at 02:23

It is in essence an authoritarian creed. Sure Christianity was like that 500 years ago but for the most part Christianity has been modernised or been neutered in terms of radical potency. This has not happened in Islam which is still stuck in the 7th century with a 17th century conflict (sectarian strife on Thirty Year's War) bolted on to it in the form of Sunni-Shia conflict.

Tell me about it. I follow regular Islamic apologetics like Dr. Zakir Naik and "Islam Net". It's nearly funny how the demagogic tactics and social dynamic are exactly the same as Christian and Jewish preachers. I see all the more reason why people should criticize these practices and ideologies when the reformist movement in Islam seems to small compared to the latter - but of course she got canceled

Written by mz on 27.03.2015 at 16:35

If bitching about 1000 people being killed is unnecessary then I don't know what is necessary.

It's the special standards and politicization of "human rights". Europeans are not different than Russians or Americans in their selective choices of appliance or personal hypocrisy. It was detailed before in this thread.

Written by mz on 27.03.2015 at 16:44

It's only your illusion that no one gives a fuck. Funny how you are ignoring the fact that the most important allies of US and West are involved in this attack.

What do you except exactly? I don't think Sunni Arabs will are not taking Iranian hegemony in the area (Iraq, Lebanon, Syria) very well and Yemen is Saudi's and Egypt's 'backyard'.

As far as "Civilian casualties" are concerned in any conflict, it's especially nauseating listening to people who have no military experience speak so lightly of it as a tool for a political end. Especially spoilt Europeans.
As a reminder: NATO operations which included countries like the Netherlands and Belgium bombed media centers, civilian infrastructure, refugee columns, rescue forces who came to assist those on a bombed civilian bridge on a bombing second run, embassies, hospitals and you that's a partial list of fuck ups which were labeled "a necessary evil".

War isn't a computer game or some cynical political tool by people who have no idea what they're talking about. i have better conversations with Arab opposition members from Egypt and Syria, which two I personally met (needless to say they could never go back to from where they came) then by the group* I mentioned above.

Written by Candlemass on 28.03.2015 at 12:18


It's the special standards and politicization of "human rights". Europeans are not different than Russians or Americans in their selective choices of appliance or personal hypocrisy. It was detailed before in this thread.

Well said.

Written by Candlemass on 28.03.2015 at 12:18


What do you except exactly? I don't think Sunni Arabs will are not taking Iranian hegemony in the area (Iraq, Lebanon, Syria) very well and Yemen is Saudi's and Egypt's 'backyard'.

It's frankly awkward that I have to defend IRI in this situation and I feel guilty of taking the side of such government but the fact is that the Saudi Arabia and likes of Turkey have supported ISIS and terrorists in the middle east. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has recently revealed his discomfort about what he calls the dominance of Iran, but he doesn't mention the fact that Iran actually does have constructive role in Iraq as it is the major force against the ISIS now.

Moreover, something similar happened before in Bahrain when Saudi Arabia forces intervened in the support of a dictator regime, acting against the Shia' majority.

If anyone is concerned about the Islamic terrorism, they he should first go for the role of Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Written by mz on 28.03.2015 at 17:26

It's frankly awkward that I have to defend IRI in this situation and I feel guilty of taking the side of such government but the fact is that the Saudi Arabia and likes of Turkey have supported ISIS and terrorists in the middle east. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has recently revealed his discomfort about what he calls the dominance of Iran, but he doesn't mention the fact that Iran actually does have constructive role in Iraq as it is the major force against the ISIS now.

Moreover, something similar happened before in Bahrain when Saudi Arabia forces intervened in the support of a dictator regime, acting against the Shia' majority.

If anyone is concerned about the Islamic terrorism, they he should first go for the role of Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Well, the politics in the ME are so tribal it's tragic. I'm glad things are seem to be working out in Tunisia.
The Iranians are not known for their positive roles as far as different ethnics groups go or any political opposition. In Iraq the Sunnis oppressed the Shia and now they're taking their turn. It's so bad people are talking about dictatorships in a positive way.

It's not a contradiction and I personally worried about Qatar (funding Hamas and with my luck I get called up every second summer for reserve). Regardless, sorry to sound cliched, but it's just depressing on the human dimension and it boiling down purity to political interest.

Written by deadone on 31.03.2015 at 01:17

It's because a lot of people are hypocritical anti-Semitic pieces of shit.

I'm waiting for the Northern European to come and reduce antisemitism (which he knows nothing about) into Israeli apologetics cliche. I use to think newspapers like The Guardian, Aftonbladet, BBC were bad - but conversations with 'regular' Europeans made it clear to me that nothing was learned from WWII, the political gap was simply filled with a different political elites i.e. (post)-Marxists..

The vulgar Anti-Americanism and Anti-French sentiment were as much as a surprise to me as the stagnant Islamophobia (which is pronounced more freely in private conversations, of course they know nothing about what we refer to by "Islam") and the questions I received: "Are there poor Jews"? and comments "Wow, your girlfriend and you don't look that Jewish".
I'd rather Europeans not teach Holocaust lessons given what it produces: cheap collectivism (false guilt that produces further hate) and cynical use of it by the Europeans left ("This is what happens when x"; x being any anti-'racist'-feel-good-PC imagination).

If there's no "white pride" there's no "white guilt" and the other way around.
They are a two headed monster that keep feeding each other.