Written by Clintagräm on 03.04.2008 at 03:57

Written by Doc G. on 03.04.2008 at 03:41

Written by Clintagräm on 03.04.2008 at 03:38

Written by Doc G. on 02.04.2008 at 11:57

Religion doesn't cause wars, I cause wars!

Ha. I guess it's just that. Religion doesn't cause war, people do. And if people pull certain interpretations from the Bible, or any other book, it's their fault, not the scriptures, right? Right? RIGHT? (IRONY! READ BELOW.)

Exodus 22:22 - ""Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed."

Interpretation? Hm...

Exodus 22:22 reads: "Do not mistreat any widow or orphan"

Ha! I know, fixed that one, look above. 22:20.

Yes, but at the same time, in Leviticus it states that when a woman has her period she is unclean and needs to stay in seclusion for 7 days, and anyone who touches her becomes unclean, and anything she touches becomes unclean, and anyone who touches anything she touched becomes unclean, and once here 7 days in seclusion is over she needs to sacrifice 2 doves or 2 pigeons. Who the hell follows that? Old testament is so bizarre sometimes it shouldnt be taken in any way, not literally or symbolically. Also keep in mind it was written for people of a different time.

Written by Doc G. on 03.04.2008 at 04:36

Who the hell follows that? Old testament is so bizarre sometimes it shouldnt be taken in any way, not literally or symbolically. Also keep in mind it was written for people of a different time.

I don't think this is a legitimate argument to dismiss religion with. One of the "many great things" people say about religion is that it is applicable in the present day! Hell, I heard it today in class.

Written by Clintagräm on 03.04.2008 at 05:02

Written by Doc G. on 03.04.2008 at 04:36

Who the hell follows that? Old testament is so bizarre sometimes it shouldnt be taken in any way, not literally or symbolically. Also keep in mind it was written for people of a different time.

I don't think this is a legitimate argument to dismiss religion with. One of the "many great things" people say about religion is that it is applicable in the present day! Hell, I heard it today in class.

I didn't say I was dismissing religion. If you read my few posts above in fact Im saying the exact opposite. What I'm saying is the extremists who cause war generally pick and choose rules and what not. As in they probably wouldn't force that rule upon people but they'd also use the bible as an excuse to kill other people. That if one is going to follow the bible word for word, one should do that as well.

Written by Doc G. on 03.04.2008 at 05:25

I didn't say I was dismissing religion. If you read my few posts above in fact Im saying the exact opposite. What I'm saying is the extremists who cause war generally pick and choose rules and what not. As in they probably wouldn't force that rule upon people but they'd also use the bible as an excuse to kill other people. That if one is going to follow the bible word for word, one should do that as well.

Ah, I got you. But I was just pointing out one of many things people can either choose to interpret literally or not, and maybe we should start taking some books for what they really are: full of both shit, evil, and (possibly) morals.

Written by Clintagräm on 03.04.2008 at 05:40

Written by Doc G. on 03.04.2008 at 05:25

I didn't say I was dismissing religion. If you read my few posts above in fact Im saying the exact opposite. What I'm saying is the extremists who cause war generally pick and choose rules and what not. As in they probably wouldn't force that rule upon people but they'd also use the bible as an excuse to kill other people. That if one is going to follow the bible word for word, one should do that as well.

Ah, I got you. But I was just pointing out one of many things people can either choose to interpret literally or not, and maybe we should start taking some books for what they really are: full of both shit, evil, and (possibly) morals.

Yeah, I see. I'll leave at this; Religion doesn't cause wars, over zealous people cause wars. Now im going to leave the serious discussion forum forever because I despise it....not even sure why I came in in the first place.

Written by Clintagräm on 03.04.2008 at 05:40

Written by Doc G. on 03.04.2008 at 05:25

I didn't say I was dismissing religion. If you read my few posts above in fact Im saying the exact opposite. What I'm saying is the extremists who cause war generally pick and choose rules and what not. As in they probably wouldn't force that rule upon people but they'd also use the bible as an excuse to kill other people. That if one is going to follow the bible word for word, one should do that as well.

Ah, I got you. But I was just pointing out one of many things people can either choose to interpret literally or not, and maybe we should start taking some books for what they really are: full of both shit, evil, and (possibly) morals.

Haha,the "Mother Goose Cult"

Written by Doc G. on 03.04.2008 at 04:36

Also keep in mind it was written for people of a different time.

I honestly don't know how much you know about Biblical history, so I don't want to assume anything, so I am ridding off of what you said there to address everyone.

You guys are quoting from Leviticus. How much do you all know about what that book really is? Do you know how it also fits in with Christian teachings? Or are you just finding some anti-Christian website and quoting the uneducated spiteful bloggers who don't know the difference between foresight and forthsite?

Leviticus was a set of laws for the Hebrews during the Exodus. The majority of it does not apply anymore to Christians. Now, there are many, many Orthodox Jews who still hold to it.

Written by Dane Train on 03.04.2008 at 20:47

Written by Doc G. on 03.04.2008 at 04:36

Also keep in mind it was written for people of a different time.

I honestly don't know how much you know about Biblical history, so I don't want to assume anything, so I am ridding off of what you said there to address everyone.

You guys are quoting from Leviticus. How much do you all know about what that book really is? Do you know how it also fits in with Christian teachings? Or are you just finding some anti-Christian website and quoting the uneducated spiteful bloggers who don't know the difference between foresight and forthsite?

Leviticus was a set of laws for the Hebrews during the Exodus. The majority of it does not apply anymore to Christians. Now, there are many, many Orthodox Jews who still hold to it.

I actually found it searching Exodus for personal pleasure, and was referring not to Christians, but anyone who would take it wrong in the first place.

Written by Clintagräm on 03.04.2008 at 20:51

I actually found it searching Exodus for personal pleasure, and was referring not to Christians, but anyone who would take it wrong in the first place.

OK, good. I didn't think you'd be going to one of those anti-Christian sites looking for crap. I totally agree with you about people taking things wrong in the first place.

Written by Dane Train on 03.04.2008 at 20:47

Written by Doc G. on 03.04.2008 at 04:36

Also keep in mind it was written for people of a different time.

I honestly don't know how much you know about Biblical history, so I don't want to assume anything, so I am ridding off of what you said there to address everyone.

You guys are quoting from Leviticus. How much do you all know about what that book really is? Do you know how it also fits in with Christian teachings? Or are you just finding some anti-Christian website and quoting the uneducated spiteful bloggers who don't know the difference between foresight and forthsite?

Leviticus was a set of laws for the Hebrews during the Exodus. The majority of it does not apply anymore to Christians. Now, there are many, many Orthodox Jews who still hold to it.

Since when do rules don't count anymore since we as christians don't keep them. As a christian you believe that God has given this rules for us to keep. No bullshit about that. So, when a woman has her monthly period she is unclean and when I or another man has had a wet dream he is unclean. That the sacrifice don't have to be given anymore is because Christ has been the sacrifice. That we must not kill those who worship other gods (idols) is because God says that the judgement is not ours. But the judgement remains the same, death, only God will judge.

That is the only reason that christianity must not use violence, for noone can be forced to believe anything you want and God is the one to judge. But the rules, also in exodus or levite apply still to us.

Aei Ontos, check out the tenth chapter of Acts.

I know the thenth chapter of acts. I understand your point, but even though Christ died for us, stange things still happen in our body. As you see, many of the laws in the Tora have, besides their religious function, also a medical or hygienic function. Of course I know that we cannot be saved by keeping the law anymore, but the laws are made with a function. I, for myself, try to keep the law as far as I think it should be, even though I fail completely in keeping it, that's for grace. But not keeping the law can hardly be seen as a compliment, right?

Written by akatana on 05.04.2008 at 18:15

what does it matter if you keep any law if in the end you can murder 6 million jews and still get to heaven, while gandhi is probably rotting in hell for being a hindu.

and who said that Gandhi is in hell cause he is a hindu
Everyone disserve to go to heaven , Christain , Jew , Muslim, and all other religion and even who don't believe in hell and heaven . It depends on what you do in this short time we have in this world .

As you well known there are different interpratation of salvation. But let put that aside. All human being disserve to live and to live a happier live. Every one wants this live but as you said , our world does not let you in peace and a happy life. And for this there is a hope to change one's life. If a person is at his bottom of his misery wants to change his life. Life have a meaning , if we loose this point we don't disserve to be a human being. Being a religious person will surely help to change one's life into a better one . This is for me salvation. There are many ways to safe your soul. There are the longer ones and the shorer one, but all of them have some up/down moment . We are a human being , and we are a subject to fall and raise again. Theologians are theologians that from time to time raise arguments on different topics . This is the way have religion develops by time.

That's true. We cannot interpret everything the way that we want it.
About salvation, Noone can get to the Father than through Jesus. But There is also a verse, I couldn't find it so quick which says that someone who doesn't know Gods laws, but he keeps them even, will be justified because he keeps Gods laws. God is just, as the bible tells us.
@Taka, theologians have many ideas about the trinity, but it still isn't really devined. In fact, the trinity is not something excisting in the bible, it is only a theologian word (nothing wrong about theologians, their sometimes very hard working and dedicated) that may be right, but may be not also. Scripture is hard to understand, and when you understand the scripture completely (by miracle or so) than you might still have no idea about God. Knowing God is a little easier. He is out there looking for you!
That is cool thing about christian faith. We had a service last sunday: Religion Sucks!!!!!!! Jesus Saves. So it is.

Did you read my post well?
It is God that justifies you or not and He is just. There can be people that have never heard of God, but still have some kind of love for Him. Who really are looking for Him. They will be found by God. But many people are loving their live and hating God and therefor, hating His Son Jesus and they will go exactly where is no God. To hell. That's right.

Written by [user id=30512] on 07.04.2008 at 18:08

Did you read my post well?
It is God that justifies you or not and He is just. There can be people that have never heard of God, but still have some kind of love for Him. Who really are looking for Him. They will be found by God. But many people are loving their live and hating God and therefor, hating His Son Jesus and they will go exactly where is no God. To hell. That's right.

i'm reading the divine comedy by Dante Alighieri and there the virtuous non-believers (like Ganddhi) are in the outer circle of hell where they live in eternal desire because they devoted their lives on earthly desires without looking to God. Even the converted have to stay in purgatory as long as they lived in ignorance for God

Written by akatana on 07.04.2008 at 18:14

I admire you for being so patient, I really do, I looked over maybe half of your posts on religion and I conclude you are a very calm person indeed...

anyone want to try this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUhyd9vG2cE
I can feel the tension in all the religion threads. that's a good movie to relax on

Everyone is an atheist about the majority of Gods!

Written by belisarius on 08.04.2008 at 22:26

Written by [user id=30512] on 07.04.2008 at 18:08

Did you read my post well?
It is God that justifies you or not and He is just. There can be people that have never heard of God, but still have some kind of love for Him. Who really are looking for Him. They will be found by God. But many people are loving their live and hating God and therefor, hating His Son Jesus and they will go exactly where is no God. To hell. That's right.

i'm reading the divine comedy by Dante Alighieri and there the virtuous non-believers (like Ganddhi) are in the outer circle of hell where they live in eternal desire because they devoted their lives on earthly desires without looking to God. Even the converted have to stay in purgatory as long as they lived in ignorance for God

Ghanddi didn't want to become a christian. He has had contact with christians and apparently these christians did not make him to become christian. Ghanddi certainly has had his reasons to become not a christian. I am not going to critisize him for it. I really don't know if he is going to be in hell or not, I don't know and I really don't wanna know. But the Divine Comedy is no theology and must certainly not be seen as theology. It is not what the bible learns us. Read it as literature, but not as the divine inspired word or so.

Written by [user id=30512] on 09.04.2008 at 15:00

Written by belisarius on 08.04.2008 at 22:26

Written by [user id=30512] on 07.04.2008 at 18:08

Did you read my post well?
It is God that justifies you or not and He is just. There can be people that have never heard of God, but still have some kind of love for Him. Who really are looking for Him. They will be found by God. But many people are loving their live and hating God and therefor, hating His Son Jesus and they will go exactly where is no God. To hell. That's right.

i'm reading the divine comedy by Dante Alighieri and there the virtuous non-believers (like Ganddhi) are in the outer circle of hell where they live in eternal desire because they devoted their lives on earthly desires without looking to God. Even the converted have to stay in purgatory as long as they lived in ignorance for God

Ghanddi didn't want to become a christian. He has had contact with christians and apparently these christians did not make him to become christian. Ghanddi certainly has had his reasons to become not a christian. I am not going to critisize him for it. I really don't know if he is going to be in hell or not, I don't know and I really don't wanna know. But the Divine Comedy is no theology and must certainly not be seen as theology. It is not what the bible learns us. Read it as literature, but not as the divine inspired word or so.

i don't read anything as a divine inspired word, but dante based this idea on books of real theologians like thomas of aquino and he based his ideas on the bible (and plato)

Written by akatana on 07.04.2008 at 18:14

I understood that. But in this way jesus is unnecessary. IF you can go to heaven without believing in jesus then he is not important. And I am not talking about people who did not know of christianity and jesus(although this actually proves the illogical nature of religion) but of those like gandhi that knew but did not believe jesus was the son of god.

In this case I was talking about those who did not know Jesus. To say it hard, not for the sake of being hard, but to make sure that my point is very clear: If you do not believe in Christ and repent from your wicked ways you'll probably go to hell.
And I'm no better than you, I know, so, I've repented a while a go, and so I know I'm saved. And I would like to see you on the new earth too, so please...

Written by [user id=30512] on 09.04.2008 at 15:00


Ghanddi didn't want to become a christian. He has had contact with christians and apparently these christians did not make him to become christian. Ghanddi certainly has had his reasons to become not a christian. I am not going to critisize him for it. I really don't know if he is going to be in hell or not, I don't know and I really don't wanna know. But the Divine Comedy is no theology and must certainly not be seen as theology. It is not what the bible learns us. Read it as literature, but not as the divine inspired word or so.

God has to make a tough decision about Ghandi's fate. I am curious how will Ghandi share the Christian Hell and the Hindu Heaven in the same time. For me it makes a lot of sense , he has to multiply or something like that or half of his "body" will feel extreme hell fire and the other will cool in the sweet touch of a cherry ice cream... I always wondered how would a spirit feel the extreme hell fire if it/he has no nervous cells!!

Hmm, I don't want to be god on this, tough decision...

indeed, neither would I like to be God and have to decide.

Written by eximius on 09.04.2008 at 16:24

I always wondered how would a spirit feel the extreme hell fire if it/he has no nervous cells!!

Interesting question, could you please show me where in the Bible it says:

1. Spirits go to Hell?
2. Those in Hell actually burn?

Written by Dane Train on 09.04.2008 at 16:43

Written by eximius on 09.04.2008 at 16:24

I always wondered how would a spirit feel the extreme hell fire if it/he has no nervous cells!!

Interesting question, could you please show me where in the Bible it says:

1. Spirits go to Hell?
2. Those in Hell actually burn?

No, it says our SOUL goes in hell/heaven but the soul is not matter so the association of the soul with the spirit is not that wrong . I didn't say they burn , I said they feel

There is actually a big difference between soul and spirit according to Christian theology. And no, you didn't say burn, but it was implemented in your statement. If you didn't mean to that, than I apologize for misreading it.

In order to burn you will need a considerable amount of Oxygen (which is matter) and I don't know where can you find that in Hell . If you do believe that there is oxygen in hell (or heaven) then these places are parts of our universe and we can go one day with our rockets and say hello

I was wondering, if everyone is of the opinion that religion doesn't cause wars, then how would you define the wars in Israel? Zionists believe that it is their divine right to occupy Israel. It is in their scripture and thus part of their religion. Is this not religion fueling war?

Written by Clintagräm on 09.04.2008 at 19:11

I was wondering, if everyone is of the opinion that religion doesn't cause wars, then how would you define the wars in Israel? Zionists believe that it is their divine right to occupy Israel. It is in their scripture and thus part of their religion. Is this not religion fueling war?

People are causing war, religion is just a meme, a virus spreading from bran to brain or shall i say from lack of brain to lack of brain?
... good point