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Global Warming



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Original post

Posted by Konrad, 23.08.2006 - 20:52
Global waming is the observed increase in the average temperature of the Earth's atmosphere and oceans in recent years. Primary causes of global warming, are increased amounts of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. Both components are induced by humans and are released into the atmosphere by the burning of fossil fuels, clearing of land, etc.

Rising sea level and changes in precipitation have been directly affected by global warming. These changes MAY increase the frequency and intensity of various extreme weather events namely, floods, droughts, heat waves, hurricanes, tornados, glacier retreat, species extinctions and an increase in disease vectors. Although the above listed events have been occuring, it is difficult to scientifically connect them with global warming. However, only a small minority of climate scientists discount the role that humanity's actions have played in recent warming.

This issue has been a growing political debate, as well as how to deal with the predicted consequences. Please assess these various scientific facts before posting your opinion on the matter:

Fact 1. 2005 was the warmest year since reliable instrumental mesurements became available in the late 1800's.

Fact 2. Increase in greenhouse gases and carbon dioxide are due to both natural or internal processes (solar activity, volcanic emissions) and external processes (humans).

Fact 3. Increase in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere directly leads to the melting of ice near the north and south poles. As the ice melts, land or open water take it's place.

Fact 4. Land and water are less reflective than ice, thus absorbing more solar radiation. This causes more warming in that specific area, which in turn causes more melting.

Fact 5. Higher temperatures, lessened snow cover, rising sea levels effect ecosystems, and forced various species out of their habitats. Other species however, may flourish. Lowering of ocean pH (which is a direct result of increased carbon dioxide) and changing water temperature will have a direct impact on coral reefs.

The possibility that the Earth's temperatures will continue to significantly increase has led people to take various actions in order to retard the process, which are:

1. Energy conservation
2. Alternative energy sources
3. Carbon capture and storage
4. Development of wind power, nuclear power, solar power, hybrid automobiles etc.

Here are some various models I found on wikipedia in direct corrolation to this topic:

1. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png
2. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png
3. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr-2.png
4. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e5/Glacier_Mass_Balance.png

Please mention your stance on the matter and consider the following questions:

Do you believe that global warming proposes a serious problem to us in our lifetime? Do you feel that this issue should be pushed, or are you sick of hearing about it? If you think this a serious issue, what can we do to help? Do you think anything can be done to completely stop global warming, or is it too late?
15.04.2010 - 10:43
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight
You can also think about why measuring stations located far from civilization and high in mountains are being removed from counting the average temperatures...
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21.04.2010 - 00:18
the stranger

Written by akatana on 15.04.2010 at 12:28

Written by the stranger on 15.04.2010 at 07:53

Written by akatana on 14.03.2010 at 17:30

If on the other hand, you want to talk about it by presenting scientific papers and results, than you are more than welcomed to. But I doubt you will find something like that graph in a peer-reviewed journal.


Have you read anything about Milutin Milankovitch cycles? I used to think that global warming or climatic change was man caused, but after reviewing paleoclimatological articles(since i'm studying archaeology it's a basic thing) I was more convinced that this is natural AND man made. The problem is how much of it is natural and how much of it is man made?
I'm gonna bring more articles(written stuff obviously not crap from the internet) after I revise the things I have from past cycles. So you can read and see that it's not only man made.


Yes, I am aware of this research. First of all, there are natural cycles in the climate, no doubt about that, the problem of the influence that man has on the climate is another, namely that of potentially generating the conditions for a positive feedback. There are discussions, asfar as I have read about the Milankovitch cycles. There is the transition problem and other inconclusive issues like the cycles predicting that we are in a cooling period, yet the earth is warming and so on. Since climate is a very complex system, the difficulty lies in determining how much influence man has on climate. There is no doubt that man has a significant influence but it is very difficult to isolate the particular culprits and their share. But the consensus is that even if the Milankovitch cycles turn out to be accurate, an stil lhas the greater influence to tilt the balance in global climate into a positive feedback loop. And if you worked with control mechanisms you know the problem oscillation poses in positive feedback.

But I think no one argues that fluctuations in the climate are entirely man made since the natural cycles are widely known. So yes, climate change is natuaral and man made, but the natural cycles can be easily controlled by the earths natural mechanisms.


So we are on the same page. But fluctuations on the climate are not entirely man made, don't forget that above all things the main factor about the planet's climate is the sun. It's cycles of every 11, 22, 200 & 5000 years have much more influence than man's activity. And this are cycles that can not be controlled.
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21.04.2010 - 13:04
Ernis
狼獾
Now that Eyjafjallajökull has erupted and created a mess in airplane traffic and fucked tourism industry up on a large scale, we also might have cooler summers and who knows what more if Katla starts as well...

So what shall we do then? Place heavy tax on Icelanders for huge dirt and CO2 emission? How nasty of them Icelanders... they have done a lot more with their smoke holes than Chinese car owners or worse... a zillion cows farting...

Now we have proof... more climate changes ain't not just entirely man made but also, more precisely, ICELANDER made... boycott Björk! She is from Iceland. She makes climate change!
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21.04.2010 - 13:09
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight
Ellrohir likes it
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My rest seems now calm and deep
Finally I got my dead man sleep


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22.04.2010 - 07:08
the stranger

Written by akatana on 21.04.2010 at 10:08

Written by the stranger on 21.04.2010 at 00:18

Written by akatana on 15.04.2010 at 12:28

Written by the stranger on 15.04.2010 at 07:53

Written by akatana on 14.03.2010 at 17:30

If on the other hand, you want to talk about it by presenting scientific papers and results, than you are more than welcomed to. But I doubt you will find something like that graph in a peer-reviewed journal.


Have you read anything about Milutin Milankovitch cycles? I used to think that global warming or climatic change was man caused, but after reviewing paleoclimatological articles(since i'm studying archaeology it's a basic thing) I was more convinced that this is natural AND man made. The problem is how much of it is natural and how much of it is man made?
I'm gonna bring more articles(written stuff obviously not crap from the internet) after I revise the things I have from past cycles. So you can read and see that it's not only man made.


Yes, I am aware of this research. First of all, there are natural cycles in the climate, no doubt about that, the problem of the influence that man has on the climate is another, namely that of potentially generating the conditions for a positive feedback. There are discussions, asfar as I have read about the Milankovitch cycles. There is the transition problem and other inconclusive issues like the cycles predicting that we are in a cooling period, yet the earth is warming and so on. Since climate is a very complex system, the difficulty lies in determining how much influence man has on climate. There is no doubt that man has a significant influence but it is very difficult to isolate the particular culprits and their share. But the consensus is that even if the Milankovitch cycles turn out to be accurate, an stil lhas the greater influence to tilt the balance in global climate into a positive feedback loop. And if you worked with control mechanisms you know the problem oscillation poses in positive feedback.

But I think no one argues that fluctuations in the climate are entirely man made since the natural cycles are widely known. So yes, climate change is natuaral and man made, but the natural cycles can be easily controlled by the earths natural mechanisms.


So we are on the same page. But fluctuations on the climate are not entirely man made, don't forget that above all things the main factor about the planet's climate is the sun. It's cycles of every 11, 22, 200 & 5000 years have much more influence than man's activity. And this are cycles that can not be controlled.


There are many external factors that contribute to the climate, but for the current warming they do not have more influence than man, this is where you and I disagree.

I refer you to following article:
http://aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/ClimateChange/whyClimate/human/human.htm


No, we don't. It just seemed like if you were saying that fluctuations(in general) are man made, that's why I pointed out the sun cycles. So, yes, current warming(as the last hundred, two hundred years) is man made.
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25.07.2010 - 06:08
DoommooD

Real dangerous PHYSICAL POLLUTION is a problem that we humans can work to solve. global warming is however out of our hands. global warming is the biggest hyped sinister aweful evil greed corrupt filled scam con game in history.
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25.07.2010 - 06:15
DoommooD

Please remember that my opinion/belief against global warming is in no way to say that i dont respect yovr all opinion on this subject. i do respect your opinions.
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02.10.2010 - 06:25
CrypticMyth
Metal Scientist
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"You're all the same, the lot of you, with your long hair and faggot clothes. Drugs, sex, every sort of filth. And you hate the police, don't you? You make it easy."
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02.10.2010 - 10:24
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight
Talking about all this global warming shit...why not to ask:

- how can "exhaust permits" business even exist? those are commercial papers substantiated by literally nothing...still billions are drowning in it, not talking about immense cheats happening here and there...
- when it is all for the planet - why is Al Gore one of the co-founder and co-owner of Chicago exhaust permits stock exchange?
- who allowed US and GB retirement funds to invest into those obscure exhaust permits? (relatively recent action of Obama and Labourists party)
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My rest seems now calm and deep
Finally I got my dead man sleep


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27.02.2011 - 11:48
JD
Account deleted
Global Warming SUCKS.
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27.02.2011 - 12:27
ErnilEnNaur
Account deleted
Written by DoommooD on 25.07.2010 at 06:08

Real dangerous PHYSICAL POLLUTION is a problem that we humans can work to solve. global warming is however out of our hands. global warming is the biggest hyped sinister aweful evil greed corrupt filled scam con game in history.


We should act as if global warming was our fault, whether it is or isn't. We won't get a second chance if we're wrong, we don't have another planet to run this experiment on. And as for "scam", how many scientists do you think those running the scam could possibly pay off? Get real.
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07.03.2011 - 10:58
Valentin B
Iconoclast
Written by CrypticMyth on 02.10.2010 at 06:25

http://denialdepot.blogspot.com/2010/09/arctic-news-and-global-cooling-update.html

'nuff said.

that blog is the shit man . sadly there are many people who believe this stuff, and even more bullshitting pretentious bloggers who will gladly jump on any "alternative theory" just to look so cool and non-mainstream. they're also the kind of people who listen to Hoobastank, The Kooks and The Killers and think they're so not mainstream when it comes to music.
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12.03.2011 - 02:30
odious.infinity

Written by Guest on 27.02.2011 at 12:27

We should act as if global warming was our fault, whether it is or isn't. We won't get a second chance if we're wrong, we don't have another planet to run this experiment on. And as for "scam", how many scientists do you think those running the scam could possibly pay off? Get real.


I find that a lot of people with this mentality would think differently if they were aware of the true cost differential between wind and coal/nuclear/natural gas.

The short of it is, A lot of wealthy people are getting even wealthier through the consumer reaction to widespread eco-guilt hysteria that is being spread by easily digested faux-science in the media. By telling consumers and governments that 'green' technology (which would be otherwise laughed out of the marketplace) is saving the world from the evil capitalists, things such as hybrid cars are being sold in droves.

PEOPLE ARE BEGGING ENERGY COMPANIES TO CHARGE THEM TWICE AS MUCH MONEY TO IMPLEMENT WIND POWER. Think about that. Think about how inefficient that industry really is. Why would you want to exchange reliable power plants for a power grid supplied by something so fleeting as the wind? The battery backup needed is huge, and frankly it would be almost impossible to predictably power a whole country off wind power alone. Big batteries have a short lifespan, and are extremely toxic and hazardous to the environment in a way that is REAL. And the rare earth magnets used to generate the power in a wind turbine? Responsible for huge lakes of tailings in China, where the government turns a blind eye as volatile toxins destroy the land, people and wildlife for miles around. Sounds familiar...oh yes, this is what Big Oil in the Alberta Oilsands is being crucified by the environmental movement for...except in the oilsands it is extensively monitored and there are no populations of human life to be tainted. They have 'bird deterrent systems' worth millions of dollars to prevent birds from getting sick for christ sake. These measures do not exist in China's rare earth magnet production industry.

Details of the consequences of the industry are here. http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_212353495.shtml

If you ask me, it would seem that those same people who are guilting the average Joe into buying products produced by wind power, or lobbying governments to protect the environment and promote wind energy, are really just the same people who average Joe thinks he is defeating. They are the same people environmentalists think are the enemy. You are all being manipulated, and are trying to make everyone who doesn't buy it feel bad for killing seals and polar bears by driving a vehicle with more than 3 cylinders.

You can buy a hybrid Cadillac Escalade now...how retarded is that?

All I am trying to say is, a lot of people have a lot to gain by making us think that we are killing the world through greenhouse gasses. I believe Gore and his shenanigans have already been covered, so I'll leave that part out of my rant.

P.S. I am all for REAL renewable energy...for example, photovoltaics are approaching the point where they may make a significant difference when implemented on an INDIVIDUAL basis. If your home can use energy from the sun, it will cut down on cost to the consumer, strain on the grid, and reduce needs for new energy infrastructure. This is especially true if it can be done efficiently without significant dependence on batteries.

Again, I am all for real sustainable energy, just try to research what is real and what is bullshit...and I mean for real, beyond the Greenpeace homepage and beyond the tip of your nose. We should not need to create mass poverty in order to relieve our false guilt. There are real solutions to real problems out there...but the masses are just listening to the wrong people.
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Sonorous Odium...
...Embrace the consonance.
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26.01.2015 - 03:50
ThunderAxe1989
Account deleted
I don't understand why so many social conservatives are so adamant about denying it, like, what do they truly gain? It's strange to mix scientific fact with politics.
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29.01.2015 - 23:46
Mercyful_Kate

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30.01.2015 - 16:49
Risto
Wandering Midget
Yeah, warmest since Krakatoa. Climate changes all the time, but the rapid increase in carbon dioxide levels is a new phenomenon. It also has to be noted that the atmosphere is still too chaotic for us to try and model any warming trends accurately enough.
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21.09.2022 - 23:54
Spiritual Anarch

Trojan Horse, that is all.
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What is the difference between the man who fools you from the pulpit, and the other man who fools you from the platform?
Both of them seek to obtain power over you - To rule your mind, control your property interests or labor power.
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24.09.2022 - 15:16
Metal Rambo

Some time ago our local politicians freaked out when some poll revealed that majority of people don't take this climate thing seriously anymore, and I really don't blame them. Politicians and mass media have pushed climate fear porn up their asses for years now, there's just horror scenario after horror scenario, politicians use the fear to sell one moronic solution or tax after another that wouldn't pass in normal circumstances and most the time don't necessarily even have the claimed effect to the environment, but the fearmongering just keeps on going and going and going. Now we have this energy crisis and some European countries are shutting down their nuclear power plants because climate something green whatever while burning more coal and other fossil fuels.
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You've got a lot of guts. Let's see what they look like!
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24.09.2022 - 15:20
Karlabos
Meat and Potatos
Written by Metal Rambo on 24.09.2022 at 15:16

Some time ago our local politicians freaked out when some poll revealed that majority of people don't take this climate thing seriously anymore, and I really don't blame them. Politicians and mass media have pushed climate fear porn up their asses for years now, there's just horror scenario after horror scenario, politicians use the fear to sell one moronic solution or tax after another, but the fearmongering just keeps on going and going and going. Now we have this energy crisis and some European countries are shutting down their nuclear power plants because climate something green whatever.

It's sorta the same that happened with corona virus on a far smaller time scale. The problem may be serious and existent, but treating it as means of generating profit will always attract doubt from the masses. Media and corporations deal with it in a way that is hard to take seriously every piece of info that's scattered there, and thus people start not taking it as seriously as they should.
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Growing up is the worst. I hope I never do it.
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24.09.2022 - 15:35
Metal Rambo

Written by Karlabos on 24.09.2022 at 15:20

It's sorta the same that happened with corona virus on a far smaller time scale. The problem may be serious and existent, but treating it as means of generating profit will always attract doubt from the masses. Media and corporations deal with it in a way that is hard to take seriously every piece of info that's scattered there, and thus people start not taking it as seriously as they should.


Goes little off-topic but I think people's concerns regarding the handling of corona were mostly legit, since at the end of the day the virus itself clearly wasn't another spanish flu or black plague as was hyped, not even close, so shutting down the economy was a highly questionable solution and partly to blame for the economic crisis were facing now. Most people still don't even understand the function of that vaccine, which was not to prevent anyone from catching the virus or spreading it, but to fight all the nasty side-effects since the virus could damage your lungs, heart etc. so many of the policies regarding it were basically just complete bullshit and probably implemented just to make it seem like everything's under control and no reason to panic.
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You've got a lot of guts. Let's see what they look like!
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