Black Lives Matter
I debated with myself on whether I should start such a discussion or not, given the fact that a) this is a locked part of the forum, and b) often serious discussions get derailed and when it happens whole threads are deleted after having turned to despicable cesspools of intolerance. I decided to take my chances because, for me, the cold blooded murder of George Floyd and the events that followed are important enough to warrant a discussion here.
I have followed the story from the beginning. I was appalled to see the video of a police officer choking a person (a black person) to death while people were watching and were taking videos of it with their phones. I saw the other police officers doing nothing but watching and being ready to attack anyone who wanted to intervene. It is the worst thing I have ever seen in my life; and I can assure you that I have seen the most awful stuff you can imagine committed by the worst scum of the earth because of my job. Yet, I had never seen one person killing another in an act that lasted 8 minutes and 46 seconds and during which it is evident on the perpetrator's face that he is enjoying it. He is fucking sick in the brain for sure, so a big part of the responsibility lies on the recruiting system that put him there and the assessment system that kept him on the job all these years. I will not be convinced that this was his first incident.
What struck me as outrageous was that in the beginning it seemed that (from the news I was reading) just firing the policemen would be enough. I couldn't believe it. How can someone get away with murder just by losing his job? I don't know what exactly triggered the outpouring of reaction in the following days but it may as well have been the willingness (as I perceived it) by the media to just sweep it under the rug.
I personally hate Antifa with passion because I think that their inability to have any sort of discussion with anyone disagreeing with them puts them in the same block of nazi-scum morons. However, all the violence in the US is justified. I don't agree with it but I understand it. Non-violence has achieved nothing so far. The looting and the destroyed property is "collateral damage". Does the term remind you of something? The US government has used it plenty of times for decades when referring to massive deaths of civilians while bombing different parts of the world in order to "liberate" them. If innocent people's deaths can be called "collateral damage", a few TVs, cars, and other material things that are probably insured anyway can also be called that, especially if the rest of the mobilization will eventually bring a much needed and long overdue change.
We live in 2020 and we are still talking about race equality. Are we fucking serious? A change needs to happen, and clearly Obama didn't bring it. The USA is a very fucked up (and still wonderful in some ways) country but at the same time whatever happens there (both good and bad) slowly comes to the rest of the western world (eg. Europe) and I am not at all thrilled at the idea of living in a racist continent in a few years, where everyone has a gun and police can kill you because of a forged banknote.
As a person living in Europe, I am shocked to see that everyone over there has guns, that police are free to be as brutal as they like with no consequences, that being black or white closes or opens doors respectively. That being black can even get you killed. I watch South Park because I find it funny; however, I am starting to find it less and less funny the more I realize that it is becoming more of an animated documentary than an animated satire.
I know that for reasons beyond my understanding I am somehow privileged to be born a white male in the western world (even in a country as fucked up as mine). However, I don't have a guilt complex. I don't feel responsible for all the inequality or the injustice in the world. And I don't feel that I have to justify myself for other white males' actions. I am putting this up for discussion because it is the least I can do for George Floyd's memory and for the memory of all the people that have unjustly died before him. May they rest in peace.
Before commenting, please READ AGAIN the rules and policies of the website and the rules of posting. I take full responsibility for opening a subject that might create controversy but I am warning everyone that I will be monitoring this one closely myself. The other mods and members of staff will do the same, I am sure. If you break the rules you will be banned and your comments will be deleted. This thread will not become in any way disrespectful to the person(s) who died. The same applies to generalizing/fascist comments like "acab", etc.
Of course I believe that all lives matter and, personally, I find the term "hate crime" ridiculous and wrong. Murder is murder. Full stop. The "hate crime" term only condones further discrimination. However, IceT explained three years ago in a perfect way why we have to talk about black lives and not all lives right now:
It's unfortunate that we even have to say 'Black Lives Matter'
I mean, if you go through history nobody ever gave a fuck
I mean, you can kill black people in the street
Nobody goes to jail, nobody goes to prison
But when I say 'Black Lives Matter' and you say 'All Lives Matter'
That's like if I was to say 'Gay Lives Matter'
And you say 'All Lives Matter'
If I said, 'Women's Lives Matter' and you say 'All Lives Matter'
You're diluting what I'm saying
You're diluting the issue
The issue isn't about everybody, it's about black lives, at the moment
But the truth of the matter is, they don't really give a fuck about anybody
If you break this shit all the way down to the low fucking dirty-ass truth
I have followed the story from the beginning. I was appalled to see the video of a police officer choking a person (a black person) to death while people were watching and were taking videos of it with their phones. I saw the other police officers doing nothing but watching and being ready to attack anyone who wanted to intervene. It is the worst thing I have ever seen in my life; and I can assure you that I have seen the most awful stuff you can imagine committed by the worst scum of the earth because of my job. Yet, I had never seen one person killing another in an act that lasted 8 minutes and 46 seconds and during which it is evident on the perpetrator's face that he is enjoying it. He is fucking sick in the brain for sure, so a big part of the responsibility lies on the recruiting system that put him there and the assessment system that kept him on the job all these years. I will not be convinced that this was his first incident.
What struck me as outrageous was that in the beginning it seemed that (from the news I was reading) just firing the policemen would be enough. I couldn't believe it. How can someone get away with murder just by losing his job? I don't know what exactly triggered the outpouring of reaction in the following days but it may as well have been the willingness (as I perceived it) by the media to just sweep it under the rug.
I personally hate Antifa with passion because I think that their inability to have any sort of discussion with anyone disagreeing with them puts them in the same block of nazi-scum morons. However, all the violence in the US is justified. I don't agree with it but I understand it. Non-violence has achieved nothing so far. The looting and the destroyed property is "collateral damage". Does the term remind you of something? The US government has used it plenty of times for decades when referring to massive deaths of civilians while bombing different parts of the world in order to "liberate" them. If innocent people's deaths can be called "collateral damage", a few TVs, cars, and other material things that are probably insured anyway can also be called that, especially if the rest of the mobilization will eventually bring a much needed and long overdue change.
We live in 2020 and we are still talking about race equality. Are we fucking serious? A change needs to happen, and clearly Obama didn't bring it. The USA is a very fucked up (and still wonderful in some ways) country but at the same time whatever happens there (both good and bad) slowly comes to the rest of the western world (eg. Europe) and I am not at all thrilled at the idea of living in a racist continent in a few years, where everyone has a gun and police can kill you because of a forged banknote.
As a person living in Europe, I am shocked to see that everyone over there has guns, that police are free to be as brutal as they like with no consequences, that being black or white closes or opens doors respectively. That being black can even get you killed. I watch South Park because I find it funny; however, I am starting to find it less and less funny the more I realize that it is becoming more of an animated documentary than an animated satire.
I know that for reasons beyond my understanding I am somehow privileged to be born a white male in the western world (even in a country as fucked up as mine). However, I don't have a guilt complex. I don't feel responsible for all the inequality or the injustice in the world. And I don't feel that I have to justify myself for other white males' actions. I am putting this up for discussion because it is the least I can do for George Floyd's memory and for the memory of all the people that have unjustly died before him. May they rest in peace.
Before commenting, please READ AGAIN the rules and policies of the website and the rules of posting. I take full responsibility for opening a subject that might create controversy but I am warning everyone that I will be monitoring this one closely myself. The other mods and members of staff will do the same, I am sure. If you break the rules you will be banned and your comments will be deleted. This thread will not become in any way disrespectful to the person(s) who died. The same applies to generalizing/fascist comments like "acab", etc.
Of course I believe that all lives matter and, personally, I find the term "hate crime" ridiculous and wrong. Murder is murder. Full stop. The "hate crime" term only condones further discrimination. However, IceT explained three years ago in a perfect way why we have to talk about black lives and not all lives right now:
It's unfortunate that we even have to say 'Black Lives Matter'
I mean, if you go through history nobody ever gave a fuck
I mean, you can kill black people in the street
Nobody goes to jail, nobody goes to prison
But when I say 'Black Lives Matter' and you say 'All Lives Matter'
That's like if I was to say 'Gay Lives Matter'
And you say 'All Lives Matter'
If I said, 'Women's Lives Matter' and you say 'All Lives Matter'
You're diluting what I'm saying
You're diluting the issue
The issue isn't about everybody, it's about black lives, at the moment
But the truth of the matter is, they don't really give a fuck about anybody
If you break this shit all the way down to the low fucking dirty-ass truth
| Metal Rasputin Posts: 1108 From: Finland  |
This whole statue debate is laughable bullshit. Slavery was more or less the norm all over the world until 19th and 20th century, even millions of white Europeans were kidnapped and sold to slavery over the years, same goes with pretty much every other race and ethnic group and vice versa. If we really had to start destroying every monument that have or had links to slave owners or other such things centuries ago we might as well erase most of the material culture right away.
---- You've got a lot of guts. Let's see what they look like!
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| Metren Dreadrealm Posts: 1328 From: Estonia  |
Written by Metal Rasputin on 29.06.2020 at 02:51 I think this is a slippery slope fallacy. I don't think any reasonable person would demand the destruction or removal of everything that has ever had any relation to slavery. The confederacy statues issue has to do with statues erected for racists and traitors that fought for slavery in an era when their opponents already knew better. The "they were just doing what everyone was doing" argument doesn't apply, because they were directly opposing freedom and justice and the people fighting for freedom and justice. That said, I see you are from Finland. Apparently the Valio corporation is planning to change the names of certain ice creams and yogurts to "help combat racism and cultural insensitivity", as if that would actually achieve anything or as if having something as awesome as ice cream named after your people was a bad thing to begin with. Big corporations doing this virtue signaling bullshit for PR is dumb AF in my opinion and makes real problems seem trivial to the skeptics.
---- My one-man project's Bandcamp with free downloads: https://dreadrealm.bandcamp.com/
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| Metal Rasputin Posts: 1108 From: Finland |
Written by Metren on 29.06.2020 at 13:25 From what I've gathered, these protesters have actually also been vandalizing and taking down monuments that have had some connections to slave trade, like statues of known merchants and other wealthy and notable people, not just confederate statues. I agree that most sane people probably wouldn't even suggest anything like that, but political radicals and hysterical crowds usually aren't that sane to begin with. I remember reading headlines about these crazed extremists even vandalizing statues which actually honor people who fought the slavery and the real Nazis back in the days. By this point I think these rioters would gladly destroy any statue that isn't Marx, Lenin or Che Guevara. Quote: Yes, I absolutely 100% agree. This pretentious corporate PR is absolute crap.
---- You've got a lot of guts. Let's see what they look like!
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| RaduP CertifiedHipster Posts: 8628 From: Romania  |
It would be great if Americans stopped shooting people 7 times in the back in front of their children.
---- Do you think if the heart keeps on shrinking One day there will be no heart at all?
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| BetulaObscura Posts: 207 From: Poland  |
Written by Metal Rasputin on 29.06.2020 at 02:51 Wise words... and true! Actually EVRY big civilisation in the history (Roman, Egyptian, Great Britain - to name a few) built its wealth and prosperity on slavery work and destroying natural resources. It is impossible to build empire without slaves and devastating environment. Sad but true. For example Slav people were kidnapped and sold to Arabic countries for the centuries. Yes, for the centuries! Typical black man from BLM has no idea about it! Irish people even in the early XX century were consider by most of the Brits as kind of slaves or somebody "substandard". Guess who was mostly deported and prisoned in Australia back then? Many modern companies were destroying natural resources in Asia and Africa until local people and government started to eliminate this process. There are much more examples from every time and every possible place in the world! BLM is ignoring all this facts... Process of slavery is still going on in every possible place on the earth but on slightly different level, in much more sophisticated way. Result is still similar: lost of freedom. Underpay "workers" with poor or almost none social rights, polluted environment due to exploitation of the Earth, economical extortion, political control... this is pure slavery system and it will be even worst! It will be worst because (like many cyberpunk scenarios) people will be controlled digitally, biochemically and electronically - deeper and deeper. Step by step. They will be manipulated (we already are) by omnipresent media, computers and machines just to do "right" things. Year by year typical human will be pushed more and more into slavery position just to work hard for nothing, just to satisfy the biggest corporations/governments. BLM is nothing like ignorant movement controlled by those who wants to destroy and destabilise European/USA economy and culture. Lately I found this text somewhere on the Internet, it is called "Never cared": - I never cared if you were "gay" until you started shoving it in my face, and the faces of my children. - I never cared what colour you were, until you started blaming my race for your problems. - I never cared about your political affiliation until you started to condemn me for mine. - I never cared where you were born until you wanted to erase my history and blame my ancestors for your current problems. - I never cared if you were well-off or poor, until you said you were discriminated against, when I was promoted because I worked harder. - I never cared if your beliefs were different from mine, until you said my beliefs were wrong. NOW I CARE!!
---- "Inspired by the future of the past"
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| Bad English Tage Westerlund Posts: 60962 From: Sweden  |
Written by Irritable Ted on 18.11.2020 at 17:27 I feel same, but its hard to discuss those things, its can fire up fuel station whit sandbox matchbox.
---- Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!! Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''  apos;'[image] I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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| no one Posts: 591 From: New Zealand |
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| nikarg Posts: 7039 From: Greece  |
Not caring is actually one of the main reasons the problem still exists. Also, the fact that inequality and exploitation has been a very prominent feature of human history does not mean that we either have to accept it passively or that we should let it perpetuate until the end of times.
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| BetulaObscura Posts: 207 From: Poland |
Some things will never change. Some people holds control. Other want to take it back. This process is still repeating. All over again. Those who have power can shape society, gain money. If they lose this power somebody else will gain it. This is live. Constant fight. BLM is not a noble knight fighting for the justice. BLM is a another political agenda/political movement wanted to take some control and power and use it for their own purposes. Don't be fooled by any politicians. Don't trust any politicians. They are pure evil in most cases. They will sell you sooner or later. BLM is no exception.
---- "Inspired by the future of the past"
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| BetulaObscura Posts: 207 From: Poland |
PS BLM also totally ignores fact that not only black people were slaves. Like I mentioned in previous post: white people also suffers from slavery, wars, diseases, political abuse, genocide... much longer than black folks in USA. Europe or USA or Japan civilisation built mostly on hard work - not slavery or blaming everybody around. You can't deny it. BLM wants to do it: blame everybody except blacks. That's why I never support such agendas.
---- "Inspired by the future of the past"
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| Metren Dreadrealm Posts: 1328 From: Estonia |
Written by BetulaObscura on 19.11.2020 at 14:31 I don't think Black Lives Matter ignores the fact that members of other ethnic groups have been slaves, instead they are drawing attention to specific problems in the US. You wouldn't say that the L.A. fire department putting out fires in L.A. is ignoring fires in New York City by doing so, they're just focused on one area. I understand your hatred of politicians (I think everyone does), but I think you're misguided in your evaluation of BLM. Any movement can theoretically be taken advantage of by power-hungry individuals, just like the message of almost every positive movement can be used by shitty parasitic corporations for virtue-signaling, but we shouldn't let that distract us from the core message and the important issues regarding those movements. I have enough friends in the US to know that the problems BLM attempts to address and draw attention to, are very much real. I probably couldn't even count all the people that have told me or told someone I know about how they're afraid to go to their own cars in the dark on the fingers of both my hands. Also, as a white person, if I visited the US and cops pulled me over, I'd have zero fear of something bad happening, even though I am not even a US citizen, that's a privilege that African Americans don't have and they are US citizens.
---- My one-man project's Bandcamp with free downloads: https://dreadrealm.bandcamp.com/
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| BetulaObscura Posts: 207 From: Poland |
Written by Metren on 19.11.2020 at 17:30 Maybe you don't think so but facts are different. BLM is so ignorant and focused on their own political needs that BLM people destroy monuments of people who fought against slavery. It is only one example but you should get a picture. Most blacks in BLM don't fight for better world. They want to get rich by robbery and stealing. I don't hate politicians. I don't need them. if BLM like to draw attention to their problems they need to act in civilised way. Instead BLM is responsible for devastating objects, stealing, robbing and many more. They destabilise public order. Every revolution ends the same. read some history about French revolution or Soviet revolution. Majority crimes in the USA are committed by blacks on blacks. Check out very good interview with on YT "Conservatives, Black Lives Matter, Racism | Larry Elder | POLITICS | Rubin Report" The best part started from 21:57 I also have friends in USA...
---- "Inspired by the future of the past"
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| IronAngel Posts: 4872 From: Finland  |
Written by BetulaObscura on 20.11.2020 at 09:11 I'm not sure you grasp the point of activism. They have come to observe that "acting in a civlized way" is not, by itself, enough to stop them getting shot. The whole point is to destabilise a public order that is unjust to draw attention to problems and force change. This is common to all activism: when playing by the "civilized" rules imposed by those in power does not work, the moral imperative is to try somethign else. (This is not to say that all activism, or all kinds of BLM, is justified or effective, but it's ridiculous to criticise activism and protests for doing the very thing they're needed for.) Theft and vandalism, of course, are counter-productive and few people would explicitly defend them, but they're a relatively universal side effect of public protests. Regrettable, condemnable, and red herring. Do you also condemn Solidary and their 1980s strikes and protests? Nothing good ever came out of the anti-Soviet revolution, either?
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| BetulaObscura Posts: 207 From: Poland |
Don't compare Solidarity Movement with BLM. Much different context...Much different weight of the matter. Fighting against Soviet system is not equal with fighting against US government system. BLM claims they are victims of the US "oppressive" system and racism. They blame everything and everybody for their failures except themselves. Everybody who criticise BLM is racist and fascist. They have no answer to fix social issues except stealing, devastating and robbing. Do you think this is a good way (for any country)? BLM has no future because it is devastating the present. I suggest them one way ticket to Northern Korea, Russia or China - they will see what "oppressive" system means. Or they can invent time machine and go back to country like Poland under Soviet control. They have no respect - only demands. Like spoiled (rotten) kid. Over and out.
---- "Inspired by the future of the past"
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| Starvynth i c deaf people Posts: 2986 From: Germany  |
Written by BetulaObscura on 20.11.2020 at 09:11 I've spent quite some time thinking about how to put what I wanted to say in kind words, but in the end all I could think of was my first spontaneous reaction: your statement is plain stupid. I don't know the origin of your misbelief, but if you're seriously claiming that "most blacks in BLM [...] want to get rich by robbery and stealing", then you'd better provide a trustworthy source in order to back up your claims. So you are from Poland. Then you're most probably aware that a whopping 96% of your fellow citizens report Polish identity, 97% declare the Polish language as their mother tongue and 93% of all Polish citizens adhere to the Roman Catholic Church. Fact is, your home country is the most homogenous nation-state in Europe. According to the latest Global Peace Index, Poland is one of the safest places in the world and the latest figures indicate that Poland has the second lowest unemployment level in Europe. So if there's one place in Europe that doesn't has to deal with social strife, racial riots and ethnic-religious confrontation, then it's Poland.  This photo has been shot in Krakow, earlier this year. But where are the "black BLM thieves" you've mentioned and the movement destroying your culture, destabilizing your social system and threatening your life? I'll tell you something: they simply don't exist in your country. Because in the year 2019, less than 290.000 foreigners were living in Poland, that's a mere 0,8% of the population. Just for comparison, the city of Berlin (3.77 million inhabitants) is hosting 1.32 million people of foreign origin... Black people in Poland? Don't make me laugh. Their percentage of the population is so low that official statistics are not even available and even the boldest estimates suggest a total quantity of less than 8.000 Polish residents who are of African descent - that's 0,02% of the population. Yet you are feeding the fire by leaving several posts in this thread, talking about a topic that does not affect your personal life in any way. I'm genuinely curious to understand the intention behind your statements. Which invisible threat, apart from fear of the unknown, is driving you? Where are the unseen dangers impelling you of all people to continuously comment on this particular topic?
---- signatures = SPAM
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| Bad English Tage Westerlund Posts: 60962 From: Sweden |
Written by Starvynth on 22.11.2020 at 15:18 They have a lot kybols ... when people protested against abortion law, and polish govermant are half way to be like Belorussia whit Hungarian friends, Cz cooled down there. When poor women and people protested, football hools attacked to them, and basically they 95% has sympathies to Adolfino Hytlär . Sutuation and talk like this is in whole east Europe whit out Baltics. there are more shit talk but notactions in works, other countries are actions. I know few polish people irl, study in LTU. They said they never will go beck to Poland. Same goes whit his corona posts ,,, ehhhhhh KKK, Kibol, Kurwa , Kebab Eddit we had Taake 14 what was member of Boulogne Boys we hade Skinhead 3 what was member in super 3 njaa
---- Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!! Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die'' apos;'[image] I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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| BetulaObscura Posts: 207 From: Poland |
Written by Starvynth on 22.11.2020 at 15:18 You made wrong assumption that I can only comment on things which appears directly in my neighbourhood, region or country. You made wrong assumption that only big amount of certain people or ethnic/religious group can cause some troubles, social or law disorder in certain region/country. You made wrong assumption that events happening far away (geographically speaking) can't affect me or my country (sooner or later). You made wrong assumption that my comments on BLM are kind of hidden agenda. I can comment on whatever I want. Just for fun. It can be controversial - sure. it can "feed the fire" - sure. It can be unclear to you - sure. You may disagree with my opinion -sure. ...but as long as I respect facts and stick to the facts you can't prove that my interpretations are wrong and not true. Last but not least: Yes, I am still sure that majority of BLM is about stealing and robbing. You want trustworthy sources? Look what was/ is happening on the US streets. This is your answer. No politic rubbish, just plain facts. Take a look around. Look and listen. But don't tell me that everything is OK. OK, this is my last comment on this subject. I wrote everything I wanted. I don't want to repeat myself. I have no time to do it. If you like you may check out that interview I recommended few posts earlier.
---- "Inspired by the future of the past"
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| BetulaObscura Posts: 207 From: Poland |
Written by Bad English on 22.11.2020 at 16:08 Pathetic.
---- "Inspired by the future of the past"
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Posts: 21306 From: Canada  |
Written by BetulaObscura on 22.11.2020 at 16:42 I just wanted to say that despite the controversial nature of this topic and the potential for heated arguments, thanks for keeping it civil and simply stating your points without delving into personal insults and turning this thread into a shit show.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Starvynth i c deaf people Posts: 2986 From: Germany |
Written by BetulaObscura on 22.11.2020 at 16:42 You are entitled to have an opinion, but this is neither an opinion nor "fun". It's a combination of prejudices, distortion of facts and unproven assertions. Nobody's denying that the BLM movement has provoked criminal activities of individuals who were just waiting for an opportunity to plunder, steal and vandalize. It has happened, it will happen again and each of these criminal acts is condemnable. I guess that's something we can agree on. But an estimated 26 million people have already participated in the BLM protests in the US and you are repetitively claiming that a majority of these people are nothing but criminals. Over 13 million thieves and robbers!  Now that's a ridiculously large number I'd really love to see proven by facts.In stark contrast to your claims, the preliminary FBI crime report indicates a massive decline in property crimes for the first half of 2020. That's the exact opposite of your assertion. You've talked about plain facts - here's your chance to deliver. I want to see your crime statistics including 13 million felonies commited by BLM activists. Written by BetulaObscura on 22.11.2020 at 16:42 And yet I did.
---- signatures = SPAM
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| RaduP CertifiedHipster Posts: 8628 From: Romania |
Pacifism is a powerful strategy, but it's basically the willingness to take a bat to the face. What people who are demand "civilized" demonstrations are saying, whether they admit it or not, that the correct way to protest is to let a heavily militarized police force, that already demonstrated its willingness to murder people in full view of the public, beat them shitless. They aren't stating a preference for non-violence. They are stating a preference to whom the violence should happen to. Pacifism doesn't work if the public doesn't see it.
---- Do you think if the heart keeps on shrinking One day there will be no heart at all?
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| Icewings La Luna Posts: 1467 From: USA  |
Hey everyone, Thank you so much for this post and everyone engaging. I read all your comments and wanted to share my experience and add my perspective. I am a Colombian immigrant living in the United States and in solidarity with Black Lives Matter and movements for racial justice. One perspective I wanted to share with you about those of us living in this side of the world, is that while slavery, colonization and other things have happened in Europe, here in America we have been colonized and are still colonized. So while there is nothing wrong with being white, speaking English, etc all these things were imposed on to Indigenous peoples and Black people who were enslaved by Europeans brought to this side of the world. This is called supremacy so includes race, gender, religions, etc. This means that we weren't given a chance to evolve as a society with our own laws, languages, etc. One important thing to understand in the context of the U.S. and policing and racism is that it is structural, meaning because the Americas were colonized, all the laws are essentially racist because they were made by white men for white men and their families. So in the U.S. for example, Indigenous peoples land was taken and basically the country was built by Black people who were enslaved. For example, the police system in the U.S. was specifically made to protect property and to catch Black people who were enslaved who were trying to escape, this means that no matter how much you try to reform the police, it is made with racist laws and intentions. The police is the U.S. was full of KKK and it is still full of racist people, racist ideologies, and as we know violence against Black people and people of Color. As far as violence and protesting, like many of you have shared, Black people and social movements have tried to gain their rights by multiple forms. For example, in my city, there has been some police brutality cases for years. People petition the local government to have investigations and for example to have mental health program instead of the police. The local government never took action, no accountability, etc so when things continue to escalate and Black people are always at risk of the police killing them, it is a matter of survival and a matter of demanding change. I want to challenge that if you feel uncomfortable with some of the violence at protest, ask yourself WHY? why are you not as outrage at the killing of multiple Black people by police brutality, and why do you care more about property that can be replaced? Again, is about power. The police has guns and the state protects them, but who protects citizens? They don't have the same power and are not represented in government, the majority of government has been white old men. As far as antifa, you only see what you see in the news. You don't see the investigations that they do on white supremacist, KKK, etc. There are protest in which people from antifa literally put their bodies in the line so that racist don't punch protestors and marginalized communities. In a sense, for example, if I got to a protest and a racist person is going to punch my face for no reason, usually antifa puts their body in the line to fight them instead. I'm learning to be an abolitionist, so I do believe that the police should be defunded so that those funds can go towards community programs like housing, healthcare, mental health, etc. I think that we need to understand crime a little deeper, like why do people commit crime? and see how we can solve problems from the root. Reforming the police has been tried and hasn't protected people from dying. I want to share this article with you from a former cop who details how the police operates: https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759 The last thing that I will say is that this is not only about police brutality, when you look at the way the world was built, in the social pyramid Black people were placed at the bottom because of racism, so we also need to address racism that happens at the structural level and interpersonal level.
---- Metalheads for Black Lives and Land Back
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| Bad English Tage Westerlund Posts: 60962 From: Sweden |
In USA Police needs guns because criminsls, and thuggs has legal and illigal guns, you can buy it from truck illigal or legal from fun store, so we need better guns to law enforets. I stand whit Police. To me i wish USA always be English speaking country. After 1000 maybe spanish, same i wish French would weed out in Quebeck.
---- Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!! Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die'' apos;'[image] I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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| Drippy.Hippie Posts: 448 From: Bahamas  |
The way I see it, BLM is parallel to AIM (American Indian Movement) in some ways.... Both supposedly formed for the same reason (police brutality) But both suffer from the exact same problem: POOR LEADERSHIP 
---- What is the difference between the man who fools you from the pulpit, and the other man who fools you from the platform? Both of them seek to obtain power over you - To rule your mind, control your property interests or labor power.
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| no one Posts: 591 From: New Zealand |
Written by Drippy.Hippie on 01.03.2022 at 04:29 Who's there leader
---- Unable to connect to the database
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Thank you. This is what I have felt for so long. Not trying to upset anyone or group until they started to attack unprovoked. Now I'm less likely to support any minority cause. Being in the most hated demographic, white, middle age, straight, meat eater and male, I can't win whatever I say. So this is all I will say. No further comments. Thank you.- 1
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