So, on another thread a few metalstromers and I got into a convo about Atheism, however that was, I must admit, just a little bit off topic. So I decided to make a thread about it.

Atheism goes alot Deeper than most people realize, and is more than the simple idea of "there is no god/s, and when you're dead you're dead." There are a number of different atheist philosophy's and these are all widely practiced across the world. For example, "Epicurianism" was an ancient greek belief that since there was no god/s, you should live each day like it's your last, because this is the only life you have, and every day could very well be your last.

So when you come to this discussion, tell us, are you an atheist? What are your general thougts on atheism? Do you find it intresting? Let's make it a good conversation people.

also, here are some links
Atheism- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Epicurianism- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurianism

I am an atheist, however I live every day however I feel like living it, not according to any belief system, because I don't believe that it will be my last, and if it ends up being my last then it's not as if I'm going to be conscious to recognize the fact anyways. I believe in no gods, no afterlife and I do not live my life according to any religious doctrine.

@Arian Totalis: Interesting that you should bring up Epicurus. A guy that preceded him who had the same beliefs as him was the lovable Socrates. He believed that instead of worrying about the future, we should focus on the here and now. Unfortunately, he was persecuted and later executed for his beliefs.

Of course, you probably know that I am atheist. I do not worry about the future. Whenever I do, I get depressed, because I imagine that I'll be a poor man in the future. If I don't worry about the future, I feel great. Since I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, I don't worry about where I will go after I die. Since I am atheist, I also don't care about when people say that I will go to Hell just for being an atheist. I am not bound by religious limitations, and because of this, I am more free.

Written by [user id=5630] on 14.07.2007 at 06:07

@Arian Totalis: Interesting that you should bring up Epicurus. A guy that preceded him who had the same beliefs as him was the lovable Socrates. He believed that instead of worrying about the future, we should focus on the here and now. Unfortunately, he was persecuted and later executed for his beliefs.

Of course, you probably know that I am atheist. I do not worry about the future. Whenever I do, I get depressed, because I imagine that I'll be a poor man in the future. If I don't worry about the future, I feel great. Since I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, I don't worry about where I will go after I die. Since I am atheist, I also don't care about when people say that I will go to Hell just for being an atheist. I am not bound by religious limitations, and because of this, I am more free.

Yeah, I knew that Socrates was concerned with looking into present events and that he was a philosopher, but I didn't know he was an Atheist. However, he may have been sentenced to death, but he was ordered to kill himself, so you really couldn't call that an execution

I kinda figured you were an atheist because of your love for Deicide, your username says it all
But remember, religious beliefs do not always restrain us, sometimes they teach us things which are more valuable than to simply live life without caring or responsibility. That isn't to say that an Atheist can't have virtues either, but religion is very good at teaching virtue. My spiritual beliefs have done nothing but help me, I don't really feel restricted at all. And I have seen some posts you have made about me, I don't want to come off as presumptuous or pompous, or stuck up (even though I think I have that rep around here) but don't you somewhat admire me for my religious/spiritual beliefs? I would not be nearly the deep thinking person I am today without these tenants.

In any case, I still think your way of living is admirable, and I hope you don't really hold anything against me for making an assumption I perhaps shouldn't have.

Written by Arian Totalis on 14.07.2007 at 06:36

But remember, religious beliefs do not always restrain us, sometimes they teach us things which are more valuable than to simply live life without caring or responsibility.

That's nothing atheism can't do.

Written by Hyvaarin on 14.07.2007 at 13:31

Written by Arian Totalis on 14.07.2007 at 06:36

But remember, religious beliefs do not always restrain us, sometimes they teach us things which are more valuable than to simply live life without caring or responsibility.

That's nothing atheism can't do.

You should have read my whole post, because I also said

Quote:
That isn't to say that an Atheist can't have virtues either

Good thread!

I agree that religion doesn't neccessarily restrict but it may even be another way round. Because all religions do not have some strict codexes you have to follow, in my opinion it is a bit of a prejudice. It can be on an entirely different level and maybe there it can give you freedom you didn't have or know how to use before. But here I am not saying facts these are just thoughts.

Epicurus' philosophies were also very materialistic. I partially agree with his thoughts but I don't share his thoughts on materialism, because I feel I don't know enough about the universe to make such decisions and I think it is entirely possible there is a lot more to this world than we see or feel.

I would say I can be called an atheist. I don' deny the existence of gods, or maybe better would be to say, that I do but I leave the possibility that they may exist. I think it would be something closer to weak atheism. Then about life after death, I don't know what will happen, but I think that at least I will not experience anything after it but my stance on this question might still change.

Also all atheists don't think that when you're dead, you're dead(although you probably knew it), because some believe in reincarnation or have some other beliefs so I wouldn't classify it(the belief in absence of afterlife) as a neccesary part of atheism.

Written by Arian Totalis on 14.07.2007 at 19:15

Written by Hyvaarin on 14.07.2007 at 13:31

Written by Arian Totalis on 14.07.2007 at 06:36

But remember, religious beliefs do not always restrain us, sometimes they teach us things which are more valuable than to simply live life without caring or responsibility.

That's nothing atheism can't do.

You should have read my whole post, because I also said

Quote:
That isn't to say that an Atheist can't have virtues either

I read it all. The way you structured/worded your post just made it seem like you were creating a distinction between "living live with caring and responsibility" and "virtues". Ahh whatever haha.

Atheism is no better than any religion. People feel the need to blindly accept supposed "facts" on the basis that they were brought up to believe it or that it appears to be more logical in comparison to the other view whether it be that you believe that it is too much of a coincidence to believe that all this is just an amazing accident of cosmic parking or whether you believe that scientific theories can explain every aspect of this better than a "god-did-it" view.

We can never prove that god does or does not exist in some form and what difference does it make anyway? Yet there are people who have so much confidence in their view that not only will they constantly try to falsify the opposing view but they are unwilling to consider the opposing view in the slightest. Why do so few people acknowledge that A) We will never know and B) It's not really that important.

Religion should be viewed as a philosophy. It should provoke thought. Make you truely question your own views and everything around you. Zealotism has no place in philosophy.

We can't have any real confidence in either view of this if we're really being rational and logical about it. Ironic seeing as atheists are usually the first to insist that their blind acceptance of something they can't possibly know is logical and rational.

Ok, I'm pretty drunk (and therefore may retract this), but why should anyone believe in something (ie. God) just because its existence is "possible"? Pretty shithouse logic to me.

Why should anyone believe that there definitely is not a god in some form when it's existence is possible? My point was that it is ridiculous to state something as a fact when there is no evidence either way.

We don't know and will never know. It's possible to believe in something and accept that their is a level of doubt. We know very little for certain.

Well, yes, insisting that no gods exist is in a way same as for example Christian or Muslim saying that god definately exists.

Written by -tom- on 17.07.2007 at 19:30

Why should anyone believe that there definitely is not a god in some form when it's existence is possible? My point was that it is ridiculous to state something as a fact when there is no evidence either way.

We don't know and will never know. It's possible to believe in something and accept that their is a level of doubt. We know very little for certain.

Agreed. When the level of doubt is so enormous/total, though, it doesn't seem like the most logical choice to believe.

Atheism, I cannot believe in it because Evolutionists and Atheists are pretty mucht he same, correct? And to me Darwin's Theory cannot be real because Not all the monkies evolved. Me, I am a cross between Buddhism, Wicca and Hedonism (even though Hedonism is not a belief lol) . Buddha was a man way ahead ov his time, he stated that "Happiness is not found by serving / worshipping other gods" ...... He crossed Hinduism with Atheism thus creating Buddhism. But I am not a full-on Buddhist because like the Atheists, I believe that religion is a plague.......People worship Buddha just like fvcking celebrity worship, the dude never said he was a deity, because there is no supernatural. He is a hero ov mine for coming to realise there are no gods in a time where it was most difficult and for the will to attain inner pureness and divinity......But I do not 'worship' him or anybody.

Yes, as far as Atheism goes, I believe that it's good how atheists are 'proud heathens' and how they are brave enough to think for themselves and realise there are no gods out there deciding our fate. But the fact ov the matter is, many manyy Atheists just hate the world and everything around them, which to me is very sad.......They should get in touch with some spirituality to purify their hearts so they may live life abundantly. Not Religion! Spirituality! Hate not the world fellow non-believers!

Written by [user id=160] on 24.07.2007 at 22:39

Atheism, I cannot believe in it because Evolutionists and Atheists are pretty mucht he same, correct? And to me Darwin's Theory cannot be real because Not all the monkies evolved.

I'm not too familiar with evolutionary biology, but I am certain that the "it's not true because there are still monkeys" has been thoroughly refuted by actual evolutionary biologists.

Quote:
Me, I am a cross between Buddhism, Wicca and Hedonism (even though Hedonism is not a belief lol) . Buddha was a man way ahead ov his time, he stated that "Happiness is not found by serving / worshipping other gods" ...... He crossed Hinduism with Atheism thus creating Buddhism. But I am not a full-on Buddhist because like the Atheists, I believe that religion is a plague.......People worship Buddha just like fvcking celebrity worship, the dude never said he was a deity, because there is no supernatural. He is a hero ov mine for coming to realise there are no gods in a time where it was most difficult and for the will to attain inner pureness and divinity......But I do not 'worship' him or anybody.

So where does Wicca come into this?

Quote:
But the fact ov the matter is, many manyy Atheists just hate the world and everything around them, which to me is very sad.......They should get in touch with some spirituality to purify their hearts so they may live life abundantly. Not Religion! Spirituality! Hate not the world fellow non-believers!

Sorry, but that is a completely unfounded, idiotic assertion. And even if it is true and their hearts do need "purifying", I fail to see how some woo-woo "spirituality" is needed to do this

Written by Hyvaarin on 25.07.2007 at 04:56

Written by [user id=160] on 24.07.2007 at 22:39

Atheism, I cannot believe in it because Evolutionists and Atheists are pretty mucht he same, correct? And to me Darwin's Theory cannot be real because Not all the monkies evolved.

I'm not too familiar with evolutionary biology, but I am certain that the "it's not true because there are still monkeys" has been thoroughly refuted by actual evolutionary biologists.

Quote:
Me, I am a cross between Buddhism, Wicca and Hedonism (even though Hedonism is not a belief lol) . Buddha was a man way ahead ov his time, he stated that "Happiness is not found by serving / worshipping other gods" ...... He crossed Hinduism with Atheism thus creating Buddhism. But I am not a full-on Buddhist because like the Atheists, I believe that religion is a plague.......People worship Buddha just like fvcking celebrity worship, the dude never said he was a deity, because there is no supernatural. He is a hero ov mine for coming to realise there are no gods in a time where it was most difficult and for the will to attain inner pureness and divinity......But I do not 'worship' him or anybody.

So where does Wicca come into this?

Quote:
But the fact ov the matter is, many manyy Atheists just hate the world and everything around them, which to me is very sad.......They should get in touch with some spirituality to purify their hearts so they may live life abundantly. Not Religion! Spirituality! Hate not the world fellow non-believers!

Sorry, but that is a completely unfounded, idiotic assertion. And even if it is true and their hearts do need "purifying", I fail to see how some woo-woo "spirituality" is needed to do this

I was just saying that I cannot accept evolution because ov there being still monkies, that's just me.

and Wicca actually does not come into anything I posted. because I didn't actually write a whole essay explaining what I believe. I am only like 2-5% Wiccan anyway, I don't worship gods who they do because i don't believe in god/s. I like to take parts ov faiths to mold it around my life so it will work out best for me.

and about my "assertion", it's just that well......to me, Atheists, I don't know they just seem unhappy. Like they reject the existance ov any gods because they at some point in their life felt betrayed or let down by 'God' or Christians or whatever other faith. I just think, Yes, that has happened to many people [feeling let down by those types] even to me....... But I don't dwell on it, I don't turn it into hatred or misery. I strive for inner pureness in order to transcend all that, there is no 'War', I just develop an attitude ov "You speak your truth, I speak mine" and therefore I can live life more full. Don't get me wrong, I fvcking LOVE Atheists to death! In my school, I am pretty much the only non-atheist whom the atheists and agnostics can talk to about religion and spirituality because I'm the only non-atheist [it seems] that will understand and not get defensive over religion [cuz i don't have religion ]. The whole reason I posted parts ov that post is because I ACTUALLY DO GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE WELL-BEING OV ATHEISTS BECAUSE I TOO AM A NON-BELIEVER! Otherwise I would have said next to nothing. So please don't get defensive, I am not dissing you or anybody else in these forums.

Lowelas OF FIRE, I recommend you to read this if you have time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_evolution In my opinion it explains main concepts of evolution quite well. If I understand your opinion on this matter correctly, then all organisms should be the same now. But they are not, so some apes did not evolve into humans just as some microorganisms didn't evolve further too

About atheists being sad. I wouldn't say I have noticed a significant difference between believers and non-, but you might be right.

Written by [user id=20090] on 25.07.2007 at 23:03

About atheists being sad. I wouldn't say I have noticed a significant difference between believers and non-, but you might be right.

I believe I have an explanation for that. Are you familiar with the saying "ignorance is bliss"? This is true for religious believers. They are happy because they believe in fantasy and don't know the truth. Once they learn the truth, they become sad from disappointment. Atheists such as myself are sad because they realize that God has died and we must move on.

Written by [user id=160] on 25.07.2007 at 17:33

I was just saying that I cannot accept evolution because ov there being still monkies, that's just me.

and Wicca actually does not come into anything I posted. because I didn't actually write a whole essay explaining what I believe. I am only like 2-5% Wiccan anyway, I don't worship gods who they do because i don't believe in god/s. I like to take parts ov faiths to mold it around my life so it will work out best for me.

and about my "assertion", it's just that well......to me, Atheists, I don't know they just seem unhappy. Like they reject the existance ov any gods because they at some point in their life felt betrayed or let down by 'God' or Christians or whatever other faith. I just think, Yes, that has happened to many people [feeling let down by those types] even to me....... But I don't dwell on it, I don't turn it into hatred or misery. I strive for inner pureness in order to transcend all that, there is no 'War', I just develop an attitude ov "You speak your truth, I speak mine" and therefore I can live life more full. Don't get me wrong, I fvcking LOVE Atheists to death! In my school, I am pretty much the only non-atheist whom the atheists and agnostics can talk to about religion and spirituality because I'm the only non-atheist [it seems] that will understand and not get defensive over religion [cuz i don't have religion ]. The whole reason I posted parts ov that post is because I ACTUALLY DO GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE WELL-BEING OV ATHEISTS BECAUSE I TOO AM A NON-BELIEVER! Otherwise I would have said next to nothing. So please don't get defensive, I am not dissing you or anybody else in these forums.

Yeah dude, I get that you're not trying to diss anyone here - the reason I may have been a bit "heavy-handed" is because your claims about evolution and atheists are baseless.

Take your "it doesn't work for me, so I reject it" point about evolution. The only reason it doesn't work for you is because you don't understand it (that's not to say that I fully understand it either, but you know what I mean). It is completely unfair and irrational to reject a scientific theory just because it's currently beyond your scientific understanding.

And about many atheists turning to atheism out of negativity - of course there's lots of atheists for whom this is true, but you can say the same about members of any religious belief. Anyway, this point isn't *that* important haha.

Written by [user id=5630] on 26.07.2007 at 01:36

I believe I have an explanation for that. Are you familiar with the saying "ignorance is bliss"? This is true for religious believers. They are happy because they believe in fantasy and don't know the truth. Once they learn the truth, they become sad from disappointment. Atheists such as myself are sad because they realize that God has died and we must move on.

Can you prove that god doesn't exist?

You're right to some degree. People tend to believe what makes most sense to them to be fact rather than see the truth - We don't know and we can't possibly know. Accepting that there definitely isn't a god and there isn't anything after death (whether it be heaven/hell, reincarnation etc) is just as ridiculous as accepting that there defintely is and though there's nothing wrong with believeing one way or the other, accepting either view as the unquestionable truth is a bit silly.

It seems that most people are unable to accept that some things are unknown and feel the need to accept one view then go to great lengths trying to convince others that their view is right and everyone with a different view is unwilling to accept "the truth" but it's actually this kind of zealotism that causes problems anyway.

I consider myself an Atheist, because I can't see the existance of an God or deity above us all being logical. Even if there was a God I can't see what he has done for us exactly, and that science has explained most of the mysteries we as humans have encountered.

It's right that I can't prove there isn't a God. But I think with all honesty if these questions that were previously mysteries are starting to be answered with science then it's only a matter of time before we can explain most things.

Of course some things are still attracting doubt from some people. For example, evolution, which has already been discussed on the topic and maybe evolution isn't the "correct theory" but I understand the concept fully and it makes sense to me. But I don't think a lack of understanding of something should bring up the whole, "oh its cause of God init?" explanation.

Theres my say.

@Pinusar: thanks, I shall read it later


@Insineratehymn: "ignorance is bliss" i love it haha.

@Hyvaarin: Fair enough dude

Written by [user id=160] on 24.07.2007 at 22:39

to me Darwin's Theory cannot be real because Not all the monkies evolved

well actually that is due to mutation, and coincidences such as a type of food eaten by some specific apes enabled them to think better or something.

Has anyone in here ever heard of Russell's teapot, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Russell's teapot makes more sense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

I think it's pretty interesting, and proves a good point.

The difference is that there's no reason to believe that there is a microscopic teapot orbiting the sun and the idea of this is something we can comprehend and therefore make a judgement on whether it's likely to be true or not. The idea of whether a god exists in some abstract form goes far beyond our understanding and comprehension. Russell's comparison is overly reductionist as it ignores this.

Written by [user id=1445] on 26.07.2007 at 21:36

Has anyone in here ever heard of Russell's teapot, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Russell's teapot makes more sense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

I think it's pretty interesting, and proves a good point.

I have never heard of Russels teapot, but I do know the flying seghetti monster and I think it's really funny. I understand the concept of it just fine and I like the reason why it was ever thought up in the first place (A college propfessor created it in order to parody a bill which would require christian religious ideals to be a mandatory study). The idea is respectable, but that still doesn't mean I don't have any deity's.

Written by Arian Totalis on 27.07.2007 at 05:00

Written by [user id=1445] on 26.07.2007 at 21:36

Has anyone in here ever heard of Russell's teapot, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Russell's teapot makes more sense: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

I think it's pretty interesting, and proves a good point.

I have never heard of Russels teapot, but I do know the flying seghetti monster and I think it's really funny. I understand the concept of it just fine and I like the reason why it was ever thought up in the first place (A college propfessor created it in order to parody a bill which would require christian religious ideals to be a mandatory study). The idea is respectable, but that still doesn't mean I don't have any deity's.

You're right. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a parody deity. You can believe in him while still proclaiming that God is dead. I do that all the time.

Yeah, I've heard of them. I find particularly The Flying Spaghetti monster quite humorous and wittily done. I understand that these comparisons might be unfair to religions and too simplistic etc. but still they are funny. For example how Spaghetti Monster planted all the evidence of evolution to test the believers' faith and so on...

Haha! I'd never heard of The Flying Spaghetti monster before! I love the idea though and it makes a lot of sense in my eyes, as does the Russells Teapot analogy.

Wikipedia also mentions this has been mentioned in Dawkins' "The God Delusion".

Has anyone here actually read it? I was intrigued about it for some time but I heard it was quite poorly written with too much bias. So I never bothered reading it. Could anyone else give me their opinion on it?

Written by Arian Totalis on 13.07.2007 at 23:17

So, on another thread a few metalstromers and I got into a convo about Atheism, however that was, I must admit, just a little bit off topic. So I decided to make a thread about it.

Atheism goes alot Deeper than most people realize, and is more than the simple idea of "there is no god/s, and when you're dead you're dead." There are a number of different atheist philosophy's and these are all widely practiced across the world. For example, "Epicurianism" was an ancient greek belief that since there was no god/s, you should live each day like it's your last, because this is the only life you have, and every day could very well be your last.

So when you come to this discussion, tell us, are you an atheist? What are your general thougts on atheism? Do you find it intresting? Let's make it a good conversation people.

also, here are some links
Atheism- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Epicurianism- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurianism

It is fantastic, that someone knows epicurianism!
Yes, i live everyday as it was my last, knowing, that since there are no gods, there is no chance of Reincarnation/Afterlife.And thus, when you're dead, you're dead - simple as that.
I suggest everyone to read about it (Link provided in the quote above)