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Russia's invasion of Ukraine



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Original post

Posted by corrupt, 24.02.2022 - 12:18
This thread is meant to be a place to leave thoughts and feelings about the current political situation around Ukraine. Feel free to discuss the matter. If you can provide sources explaining the situation and motivations of individual parties in an unbiased way, feel free to share those as well.

Upfront notice:

We expect every one of you to respect each other and keep this discussion civil. This is an extremely emotional, hard to grasp topic and not a few of us here are or will be personally affected by these events. Listen to each other and remember that a state is a political entity and not a collective of synchronized minds.

Any "Fuck X" or similar statements will be removed and we will give warnings and time-outs to anyone failing to contribute more than polemic. Please take this situation as serious as it is for the people involved.
01.03.2022 - 02:32
BitterCOld
The Ancient One
Admin
Written by Metren on 28.02.2022 at 22:05

Well, I sent some money to Ukraine through the Estonian arm of Red Cross today. I hope it helps. If any Ukrainians or anyone else knows of a better way to send help LET ME KNOW IN THE PMs PLEASE!!! I have Ukrainian friends and co-workers. I have Russian friends and co-workers. I am afraid what I don't have is any clever worlds to say on this topic. Wish I did, but I guess it wouldn't ultimately matter much anyway. All the brave Ukrainians fighting, all the refugees, you are my brothers and sisters. All Russians who oppose this illegal war in action or in their hearts, you are my brothers and sisters. I embrace you all. You are welcome in Estonia, you are welcome in my town and in my home. I fucking mean that. My house is small and I am not rich, but knock on the door and it won't be shut in your face, I swear. One day we'll all sit side-by-side, share a drink and shed a tear over the atrocities currently happening and we'll say: "Never again" and we'll mean it and we'll make it so.

I hope the site's rules will overlook this one-time of non-English, when I say: Слава Україні! And my deepest respect and admiration to all the Russian people who oppose the aggression and protest against it on the streets of Russian cities and towns. You all possess a level of courage that I can only dream of achieving.

IMPORTANT: If there are any Ukrainians in Estonia in need of a place to stay, in need of any assistance that is within my power to provide: PM me!


(insert Thunderous Applause gif here)

Well said, PM me if anyone takes you up on the offer. I'm certainly not rich, but will gladly bypass some craft beer for a week or two to help a muthatrucka out. If you have PayPal or GoogleWallet can kick a few $$ your way to help.

And, who knows, if the world comes out of clown world mode, Covid fades away, this war is resolved, and my wife and i re-schedule the World Trip we had planned for 2020, beer is on me if you can make it to Tallinn.
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get the fuck off my lawn.

Beer Bug Virus Spotify Playlist crafted by Nikarg and I. Feel free to tune in and add some pertinent metal tunes!
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01.03.2022 - 11:57
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Shmelevod on 01.03.2022 at 11:37

Draconian have canceled their concerts in Moscow and St.-P.


I believe Russians might miss many international bands live in Russia next 2-5 years
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I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens.

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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02.03.2022 - 11:07
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Apparently, Putin wants to reinstate Yanukovych as president of Ukraine.

So, we back to 0 fighting all over Euromaidan in 2014 tussle between US and Russia whose pro-govt needs to install to operate Ukraine.
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03.03.2022 - 13:28
Imagine a world in which all diplomacy was done by children attending international tea parties, and sent the aging populace to do battle with canes and walkers, while regularly wagering their candies on which miracle viagra pill will give an old goat or battleaxe the right pep to settle disputes.
I dare say, that may just be entertaining.
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Live, Die, Rise, Revenge, Repeat.
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04.03.2022 - 07:41
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
What did I just read.
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04.03.2022 - 09:40
SamuelYK
In Austria we have too many pro-russian separatists unfortunately
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04.03.2022 - 11:38
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by SamuelYK on 04.03.2022 at 09:40

In Austria we have too many pro-russian separatists unfortunately


Separatists I would say activists and worshipers
Its in whole Europe. In whole world...many are idiots, but few gets money to agitate kremlin propaganda.
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I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens.

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Loading...
04.03.2022 - 15:13
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 04.03.2022 at 07:41

What did I just read.


Either Satire designed to invigorate the imaginations of others as to how frivolous the reasons for war are amid the disastrous and destructive consequences, the ramblings of a madman.. or the next evolution of mankind.
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Live, Die, Rise, Revenge, Repeat.
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04.03.2022 - 21:05
RaduP
CertifiedHipster
Staff
Title and subtitles are in Romanian, but the audio recording is in English.

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Do you think if the heart keeps on shrinking
One day there will be no heart at all?
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05.03.2022 - 15:16
dao8571428
Hello everyone. I'm from Kyiv, Ukraine. The source of reliable information about our situation without russian propaganda: https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/ or you may use Telegram channel https://t.me/up_strichka
Thanks for your support, americans!
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05.03.2022 - 16:02
RaduP
CertifiedHipster
Staff
Written by dao8571428 on 05.03.2022 at 15:16

Thanks for your support, americans!

There's way more than just Americans here. Thanks for the info and stay strong!
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Do you think if the heart keeps on shrinking
One day there will be no heart at all?
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05.03.2022 - 17:45
Roman Doez
Hallucigenia
Written by RaduP on 05.03.2022 at 16:02

There's way more than just Americans here. Thanks for the info and stay strong!

We seem to not have a huge proportion of americans compared to other websites... leaving that idea for a potential stats article
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05.03.2022 - 17:46
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by dao8571428 on 05.03.2022 at 15:16

Hello everyone. I'm from Kyiv, Ukraine. The source of reliable information about our situation without russian propaganda: https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/ or you may use Telegram channel https://t.me/up_strichka
Thanks for your support, americans!

I stand whit you...i stand whit Ukraina
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I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens.

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Loading...
24.02.2023 - 08:14
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Not to touch chords of anyone reading this post, but if I may, this war is escalating to newer heights like never before. The strain is amplified without giving de-escalation a major priority from any factions.

War policies framing on Twitter through warhawks speeches. Money pounding on warhawks policies. If you compare the patterns of WW1 and WW2, you would witness a remarkable resemblance in Russia-Ukraine war. It narrowly whisked from Syria massacre as well.

I'm refraining from blame gaming on any geopolitical country.

But the current situation is fucking menace.


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24.02.2023 - 13:02
corrupt
With a lowercase c
Admin
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 24.02.2023 at 08:14
Not to touch chords of anyone reading this post, but if I may, this war is escalating to newer heights like never before. The strain is amplified without giving de-escalation a major priority from any factions.

War policies framing on Twitter through warhawks speeches. Money pounding on warhawks policies. If you compare the patterns of WW1 and WW2, you would witness a remarkable resemblance in Russia-Ukraine war. It narrowly whisked from Syria massacre as well.

I'm refraining from blame gaming on any geopolitical country.

But the current situation is fucking menace.

I‘m not sure what you mean by de-escalation. I don‘t think I‘ve seen a war in my lifetime that was so black and white; where it was so clear who was the attacker and who the victim and that nothing would ever warrant such aggression. There is no room for de-escalation because Putin is dead set on exterminating Ukraine as a political and sociological entity.

I agree that it feels nonsensical. And I think I feel about as helpless as anyone else in the face of such raw brutality, ahistorical reasoning, and utter lack of diplomatic options.

How this war compares to both WWs I don‘t see. So far the whole world has carefully avoided getting involved.
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24.02.2023 - 13:29
F3ynman2000
Nocturnal Bro
Contributor
Written by corrupt on 24.02.2023 at 13:02

I‘m not sure what you mean by de-escalation. I don‘t think I‘ve seen a war in my lifetime that was so black and white; where it was so clear who was the attacker and who the victim and that nothing would ever warrant such aggression. There is no room for de-escalation because Putin is dead set on exterminating Ukraine as a political and sociological entity.

Exactly. And Putin will never settle for anything less than victory. The only language he understands is force. Therefore, the only way for the free world to live in peace is to crush Putin by force. Just like how it was with Hitler. Sadly, many Russians who don't wish to die in this war either will suffer as well.
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25.02.2023 - 09:38
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Written by corrupt on 24.02.2023 at 13:02

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 24.02.2023 at 08:14
Not to touch chords of anyone reading this post, but if I may, this war is escalating to newer heights like never before. The strain is amplified without giving de-escalation a major priority from any factions.

War policies framing on Twitter through warhawks speeches. Money pounding on warhawks policies. If you compare the patterns of WW1 and WW2, you would witness a remarkable resemblance in Russia-Ukraine war. It narrowly whisked from Syria massacre as well.

I'm refraining from blame gaming on any geopolitical country.

But the current situation is fucking menace.

I‘m not sure what you mean by de-escalation. I don‘t think I‘ve seen a war in my lifetime that was so black and white; where it was so clear who was the attacker and who the victim and that nothing would ever warrant such aggression.


I do share your sentiment seeing havoc ensue in Ukraine as months flip off the calendar. We can't undo what's devastated Ukraine and to be blunt here, it was inevitable. You can't keep provocateurs out of the context here on how they infused critical elements to keep NATO expanding towards West moving arms closer and closer to Russia border on the pretext of keeping Ukraine off Russia's radar and making it an official NATO member. And it didn't cease in provoking further when Maidan revolution in 2014 hit the final straw for Putin to annex Crimea. I might cherry pick bulletins more out of the history here to prove why the wind of the war fleeing towards NATO, but it's to no avail.

As Abdul Kalam once said, "War is never a lasting solution for any problem"...until you left with no fucking choice.

Look, not pro-Putin here and I strongly condemn the invasion of Ukraine on all humanitarian grounds. There are certainly critical elements that might have addressed more diligently in avoiding to brim up the war than letting your warhawks extol pro-war fucking speeches on Twitter.
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25.02.2023 - 09:56
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by F3ynman2000 on 24.02.2023 at 13:29

Written by corrupt on 24.02.2023 at 13:02

I‘m not sure what you mean by de-escalation. I don‘t think I‘ve seen a war in my lifetime that was so black and white; where it was so clear who was the attacker and who the victim and that nothing would ever warrant such aggression. There is no room for de-escalation because Putin is dead set on exterminating Ukraine as a political and sociological entity.

Exactly. And Putin will never settle for anything less than victory. The only language he understands is force. Therefore, the only way for the free world to live in peace is to crush Putin by force. Just like how it was with Hitler. Sadly, many Russians who don't wish to die in this war either will suffer as well.


That's why we need give to Ukraine fighter jets, panzers and re open our military industry as it was in WWII: I even might go radical move and consider mandatory military service duty re opens, because you never know . Now thanks god Ukraine heroes stand in our guard and stop war coming furder.
After WWII Germany had de hitlerization de nacification ,m now we need de putinisation. To that we need push whit heavy sanctions and isolation and war crime investigations and punishment against war crimes .
After war I want see Russia week, crushed, economically weak, military weaker, but as one country whit some functioning government, because no one want see nukes flying.

Cynic Sarkozy and Merkele denied Ukraine as NATO , reason why we had this mess. This war proves Russia can not go in war whit whole NATO as Putin thought.
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I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens.

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Loading...
25.02.2023 - 17:59
corrupt
With a lowercase c
Admin
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 25.02.2023 at 09:38
You can't keep provocateurs out of the context here on how they infused critical elements to keep NATO expanding towards West moving arms closer and closer to Russia border on the pretext of keeping Ukraine off Russia's radar and making it an official NATO member. And it didn't cease in provoking further when Maidan revolution in 2014 hit the final straw for Putin to annex Crimea. I might cherry pick bulletins more out of the history here to prove why the wind of the war fleeing towards NATO, but it's to no avail.

That take is pretty much exactly what Putin brings forth to justify this slaughter. I would be very careful about making that narrative my own.
We are not talking about a force of nature, we are talking about the actions of a dictator who will use any pretense as justification for his neo-imperialistic fantasies. So the term inevitable is doing some very heavy lifting there.
This is not just a territorial war but a systematic attempt to eradicate everything Ukraine from history. Russia's troops are destroying Ukranian books, forcing the use of the Russian language over Ukranian, and slaughter, rape, and mutilate civilians so methodically that I can't see how anyone can fall for that protection against a NATO threat narrative. And - to nobody's surprise - it was just leaked that the Kreml has the same plans for Belarus, a country that at this point is strongly allied with Russia and even serves as staging ground for Russian attacks on Ukraine. None of this is inevitable and it is just naive to look for mono-causality that way.

The parties you call provocateurs here have carefully tried diplomacy after Russia violated Ukraine's sovereignty twice. The Minsk Agreement and protocol were attempts to establish peace after the invasion of Donbas and led to only a cease-fire; the Normandy Format culminated in guarantees by Russia to uphold the cease-fire and resolve the "remaining differeneces" not even a month before the invasion. And that's ignoring the Talks in Turkey early during the war and diplomatic attempts of several European countries, including France and Germany to prevent the worst. To speak of provocateurs in reference to the involved parties is either ignorance or sarcasm. Both Crimea and Donbas were clear violations of international law; of treaties that were signed by Russia that recognize the sovereignty of nation states. Putin is deliberately violating these treaties and all he has to show for is a shallow narrative of a threat to Russia's own sovereignty. But the only country that is repeatedly threatening not only the sovereignty of several neighboring countries but their very existence and cultural identity is Russia itself.
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28.02.2023 - 13:27
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Look, I would be very careful not be drawing out conclusions being susceptible to Russia and keeping West's favorite cannon fodder "Ukraine" out of the sight here.

Quote:
it was just leaked that the Kreml has the same plans for Belarus


Only I thought that you would never take 'Kyiv Independent' as secured source who half of the time manufacture absurd stats for media to bark on.
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01.03.2023 - 00:06
corrupt
With a lowercase c
Admin
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 28.02.2023 at 13:27

Look, I would be very careful not be drawing out conclusions being susceptible to Russia and keeping West's favorite cannon fodder "Ukraine" out of the sight here.

Quote:
it was just leaked that the Kreml has the same plans for Belarus


Only I thought that you would never take 'Kyiv Independent' as secured source who half of the time manufacture absurd stats for media to bark on.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say. With any of this.
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01.03.2023 - 15:35
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by corrupt on 01.03.2023 at 00:06

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 28.02.2023 at 13:27

Look, I would be very careful not be drawing out conclusions being susceptible to Russia and keeping West's favorite cannon fodder "Ukraine" out of the sight here.

Quote:
it was just leaked that the Kreml has the same plans for Belarus


Only I thought that you would never take 'Kyiv Independent' as secured source who half of the time manufacture absurd stats for media to bark on.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say. With any of this.



He tried to say that VP thought as Kiev will surrender as Crimea in 2014 and Russia will walk whit real resistance due fact that VP dop not get information about situation but lies of long coruption and bullshit in Russian elite.
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I stand whit Ukraine and Israel. They have right to defend own citizens.

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
apos;'
[image]
I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Loading...
16.05.2023 - 11:19
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Ukraine is almost on the verge to lose this war due to NATO.
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17.05.2023 - 19:23
Nejde
CommunityManager
Moderator
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 16.05.2023 at 11:19

Ukraine is almost on the verge to lose this war due to NATO.


Please elaborate what you mean by that. Because in all honesty I think Asians in general know as little of the conflict as Europeans do about the Kashmir conflict between India and Pakistan that has been going on forever.
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18.05.2023 - 09:07
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Written by Nejde on 17.05.2023 at 19:23

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 16.05.2023 at 11:19

Ukraine is almost on the verge to lose this war due to NATO.


Europeans do about the Kashmir conflict between India and Pakistan that has been going on forever.


I don't know about you, but most Europeans knows about the history between India and Pakistan. Now with annexation of Article 370 of constitution of India which led Kashmir to be integral part of India, there isn't much left in it.
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18.05.2023 - 10:44
Nejde
CommunityManager
Moderator
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 18.05.2023 at 09:07

Written by Nejde on 17.05.2023 at 19:23

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 16.05.2023 at 11:19

Ukraine is almost on the verge to lose this war due to NATO.


Europeans do about the Kashmir conflict between India and Pakistan that has been going on forever.


I don't know about you, but most Europeans knows about the history between India and Pakistan. Now with annexation of Article 370 of constitution of India which led Kashmir to be integral part of India, there isn't much left in it.


I have a decent insight of what the Kashmir conflict is about but I'm no expert on the matter. But I can confidently say that most Europeans doesn't know about it since it doesn't have any general interest to people here. The thing people might know is that it's a piece of land on both sides of the border that both countries claim is theirs and that's about it.

But my question was what you meant when you wrote that Ukraine is about to lose because of NATO. It's thanks to NATO that they can stand their ground against the Russian aggressors.
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18.05.2023 - 11:33
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Well, Russia wouldn't be attacking Ukraine if the NATO dirty laundering into Ukraine's affair from so many years. You talking about aggressor here -- it's NATO that have at unprecedent level provoked Russia by making Ukraine its pawn which infused Maidan Revolution causing a horrific Ukraine-Russia war in 2014.
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18.05.2023 - 13:14
corrupt
With a lowercase c
Admin
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 18.05.2023 at 11:33

Well, Russia wouldn't be attacking Ukraine if the NATO dirty laundering into Ukraine's affair from so many years. You talking about aggressor here -- it's NATO that have at unprecedent level provoked Russia by making Ukraine its pawn which infused Maidan Revolution causing a horrific Ukraine-Russia war in 2014.

I‘m saying it one last time. This isn‘t your personal rant about NATO thread. Take your growing pains elsewhere.
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18.05.2023 - 15:47
Nejde
CommunityManager
Moderator
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 18.05.2023 at 11:33

Well, Russia wouldn't be attacking Ukraine if the NATO dirty laundering into Ukraine's affair from so many years. You talking about aggressor here -- it's NATO that have at unprecedent level provoked Russia by making Ukraine its pawn which infused Maidan Revolution causing a horrific Ukraine-Russia war in 2014.


The war in Ukraine is the cause of one paranoid and megalomaniacal man wishing to bring back the "glory days" of the Soviet Union. NATO (and the EU) isn't even fighting the war, they just provide weapons and weapon systems so that Ukraine can defend themselves from an unprovoked invasion. Putin's reason, as declared, is to rid Ukraine from "nazis" which only is a hollow excuse for invading a friendly country and killing innocent people. Only thing NATO and the EU did wrong was to not intervene when Russia annexed Crimea in 2014.

I don't even understand why someone from India even cares about the war in Ukraine and NATO. It doesn't affect you since India is trading with Russia like nothing's going on in Europe.

But I'm not gonna get into a discussion about any of this because I can already tell that discussing this with you is pointless. So as corrupt said: Keep your opinions about NATO to yourself. There are other forums on the internet for this. You've been warned.
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20.05.2023 - 21:56
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Some serious reports spawning across the news capturing the Bakhmut by Russians.

If it's true, that's a serious blow for Ukrainian forces.
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