Written by Aristarchos on 27.12.2010 at 16:15

Written by RavenKing on 28.11.2010 at 00:35

Written by [user id=107773] on 27.11.2010 at 22:06

I would like to hear some examples though, some contemporary 'flower metal', anyone who supports this ridiculous ideology, please, any and all examples will be accepted :p Let's see if you can xD.

It is examples you need? Fine. I'll give you a few ones. I could give dozens of others.

Alestorm
Avantasia since "The Scarecrow"
Celesty
Circle II Circle
Elvenking
Excalion
Freedom Call after "Eternity"
Hammerfall after "Renegade"
Heavenly
Helloween "Chameleon"
Holyhell
Iron Fire
Dreamquest
Metallium
Mob Rules
Narnia
Nightwish
Power Quest
Pretty Maids
Revolution Renaissance
Rhapsody of Fire since "SOEL II"
Royal Hunt
Sabaton
Sonata Arctica since "Unia"
Terasbetoni
Vision Divine (at least the last album)

Add to the list pretty much all female-fronted 'symphonic metal' bands.
And there are many others but, in lots of cases, I don't remember how they sound.

Why is HammerFall after "Renegade" flower metal? They became heavier and more heavy metal-oriented, not more hard rock-oriented.

Because the music became slow, simple, soft and often sounds pop-ish. Don't confuse weighty sound with metal attitude. All they do is childish choruses and ballads. Also, sorry but it shares a lot with hard rock.
Anyway, I prefer not talking too much of Hammerfall. All I have to say is this band sucks, doesn't evolve in any way and should have called a quit long ago. All they do is trying to appeal to the mainstream nowadays.

A band that haven't been mentioned which usually is mentioned is Europe. Their earlier stuff is much heavier than "The Final Countdown". I wouldn't call it power metal (or maybe not metal at all), but they have inspired many power metal bands, and probably have the most power metal-sounding sound in 1983. Their first two albums are highly recommended!

Quote:
Because the music became slow, simple, soft and often sounds pop-ish. Don't confuse weighty sound with metal attitude. All they do is childish choruses and ballads. Also, sorry but it shares a lot with hard rock.
Anyway, I prefer not talking too much of Hammerfall. All I have to say is this band sucks, doesn't evolve in any way and should have called a quit long ago. All they do is trying to appeal to the mainstream nowadays.

I just think it's funny that you wrote after "Renegade" when "Renegade" is their most poppy sounding record, while especially "Chapter V" is quite heavy.

"Renegade" is not especially heavy and not rough at all but at least there is some speed metal in it. After that, their albums are quite slow and damn boring.

Written by Aristarchos on 27.12.2010 at 16:21

Written by Death To Posers on 18.12.2010 at 00:49

Not sure if someone said this already but what about Rainbow? Especially with Dio. IMHO those guys were power metal before we got into labeling and trying to define every category and sub-category got kind of ridiculous. Songs like "Temple of The King", "Man on Silver Mountain" could be considered power metal, they just didn't call themselves that. Also Dios solo projects have songs that could be considered power metal.

"Kill The King" is usually named to be the first power metal song, but I don't think the rest of their songs is power metal.

Yeah, "Kill The King" for sure is Power.. "Man on Silver Mountain" sounds Power Metal too, but too each his own.

Written by RavenKing on 27.12.2010 at 16:59

"Renegade" is not especially heavy and not rough at all but at least there is some speed metal in it. After that, their albums are quite slow and damn boring.

Strange that I agree with you lol. I can't stand Hammerfall one bit; they don't deserve their praise.

Written by Death To Posers on 18.12.2010 at 00:49

Not sure if someone said this already but what about Rainbow? Especially with Dio. IMHO those guys were power metal before we got into labeling and trying to define every category and sub-category got kind of ridiculous. Songs like "Temple of The King", "Man on Silver Mountain" could be considered power metal, they just didn't call themselves that. Also Dios solo projects have songs that could be considered power metal.

Id say Judas Priest's "Exciter" could be called the prototype for power metal, as it certainly fits the criteria for being a blueprint for melodic speed metal, which is what was orginally defined as power metal.

Written by Angelic Storm on 07.01.2011 at 13:35

Written by Death To Posers on 18.12.2010 at 00:49

Not sure if someone said this already but what about Rainbow? Especially with Dio. IMHO those guys were power metal before we got into labeling and trying to define every category and sub-category got kind of ridiculous. Songs like "Temple of The King", "Man on Silver Mountain" could be considered power metal, they just didn't call themselves that. Also Dios solo projects have songs that could be considered power metal.

Id say Judas Priest's "Exciter" could be called the prototype for power metal, as it certainly fits the criteria for being a blueprint for melodic speed metal, which is what was orginally defined as power metal.

I'd personally more associate that song with the beginnings of the more pure forms of speed metal, such as Agent Steel and such. It's very speedy, but not very powery, so to speak.

I'm sure it was very influential, but I wouldn't call it any sort of prototype for anything but speed metal.

Written by ForeverDarkWoods on 07.01.2011 at 18:59
I'd personally more associate that song with the beginnings of the more pure forms of speed metal, such as Agent Steel and such. It's very speedy, but not very powery, so to speak.

I'm sure it was very influential, but I wouldn't call it any sort of prototype for anything but speed metal.

I see what you mean, but the harmony solo in that song is the type of thing that a lot power metal bands started doing later on. Prototype for power metal? Debateable. Prototype for speed metal? Most definitely. lol xD

Written by Angelic Storm on 07.01.2011 at 19:13

Written by ForeverDarkWoods on 07.01.2011 at 18:59
I'd personally more associate that song with the beginnings of the more pure forms of speed metal, such as Agent Steel and such. It's very speedy, but not very powery, so to speak.

I'm sure it was very influential, but I wouldn't call it any sort of prototype for anything but speed metal.

I see what you mean, but the harmony solo in that song is the type of thing that a lot power metal bands started doing later on. Prototype for power metal? Debateable. Prototype for speed metal? Most definitely. lol xD

Well, I'd say that 70s priest had some really mindblowing solos in the 70s that served as a blueprint not only for power metal bands, but also for just about any style of metal you can think of.

Sad Wings is full of great solos that could also be cited.

But about Exciter, it's so much speed metal that I can almost imagine someone hijacking the song with a "Masters of metal! Agents of STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!" and it would almost be natural.

Written by Angelic Storm on 07.01.2011 at 19:13
Well, I'd say that 70s priest had some really mindblowing solos in the 70s that served as a blueprint not only for power metal bands, but also for just about any style of metal you can think of.

Sad Wings is full of great solos that could also be cited.

But about Exciter, it's so much speed metal that I can almost imagine someone hijacking the song with a "Masters of metal! Agents of STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!" and it would almost be natural.

That's actually very true. lol If you take "Tyrant" for instance, that has a very power-metallish harmony solo near the end of the song. I think Priest more than any other band, helped shape so many sub-genres of metal as we know them today. Their influence, both direct and indirect, has been the most far reaching of any other metal band in my opinion. xD

I can only imagine what it must have been like to hear "Exciter" back in the 70's when it was originally released. Listening to it now, it doesnt seem very fast, but Im sure back then, it probably would have been like "woah, this is insane!"

Written by Angelic Storm on 07.01.2011 at 22:14

Written by Angelic Storm on 07.01.2011 at 19:13
Well, I'd say that 70s priest had some really mindblowing solos in the 70s that served as a blueprint not only for power metal bands, but also for just about any style of metal you can think of.

Sad Wings is full of great solos that could also be cited.

But about Exciter, it's so much speed metal that I can almost imagine someone hijacking the song with a "Masters of metal! Agents of STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL!" and it would almost be natural.

That's actually very true. lol If you take "Tyrant" for instance, that has a very power-metallish harmony solo near the end of the song. I think Priest more than any other band, helped shape so many sub-genres of metal as we know them today. Their influence, both direct and indirect, has been the most far reaching of any other metal band in my opinion. xD

I can only imagine what it must have been like to hear "Exciter" back in the 70's when it was originally released. Listening to it now, it doesnt seem very fast, but Im sure back then, it probably would have been like "woah, this is insane!"

Yeah, I can definitely hear how songs like "Exciter" could have influenced power metal. I just listened to Edguy "Nailed to The Wheel" in the car. I can definitely hear similarities.

Written by [user id=107773] on 27.11.2010 at 15:30

@Flying Circus: I think it's hard to pinpoint one specific point in time...As Power Metal is a subgenre of Heavy Metal; Classical Metal and Speed Metal. Although I would agree that the 80's was when the rise was most prominent. If you believe what you read on sites like Wikipedia, then Power Metal started in the US [yeah sure] in the form of speed metal, and then moved to the UK in the form of NWOBHM and Japan in the form of early visual kei bands like X Japan, Night Hawks etc. Then finally, melodic metal, i.e, European Metal.

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I just logged on for the first time in a while. I actually agree with your idea quite a bit - I myself am also against the idea that one can define specific points in time in which a genre was "invented." I also agree with Wikipedia that NWOBHM and visual kei played an important role in the creation of power metal. However, I think that "Keeper of the Seven Keys" was a revolutionary album, in that it added to the genre a sense of melody rarely seen in earlier speed metal efforts, which was widely emulated by other bands, eventually becoming one of the defining characteristics of power metal. The same can be said (although not in all cases) of the symphonic element in "Legendary Tales" - that it changed something within the genre that was later emulated and became (relatively) standard. But, of course, this is all my opinion. The specific albums are simply used as markers to denote important points, not as definitive hitorical turning points.

Since when is visual kei of any importance in the creation of pm?

ffs I grew up on metal from the late seventies until now and back in the 80s not a single Japanese thing influenced the formation of pop and metal whatsoever. Japan was just a nation copying Western styles at the time and more or less still are doing so nowadays. VK had no influence on PM whatsoever.

Since when is visual kei of any importance in the creation of pm?

ffs I grew up on metal from the late seventies until now and back in the 80s not a single Japanese thing influenced the formation of pop and metal whatsoever. Japan was just a nation copying Western styles at the time and more or less still are doing so nowadays. VK had no influence on PM whatsoever.

Oh and citing Wikipedia for anything relating to the history of metal is one of the very worst things to do. Wiki are the worst around when it come to metal and its hostory and anything related to it. aNUS are even way way way way way better.
Somehow people regard Wiki as the be all and end all. No idea why cause anyone can submit anything there without it being verified right at that moment.

Written by Aristarchos on 27.12.2010 at 16:21

Written by Death To Posers on 18.12.2010 at 00:49

Not sure if someone said this already but what about Rainbow? Especially with Dio. IMHO those guys were power metal before we got into labeling and trying to define every category and sub-category got kind of ridiculous. Songs like "Temple of The King", "Man on Silver Mountain" could be considered power metal, they just didn't call themselves that. Also Dios solo projects have songs that could be considered power metal.

"Kill The King" is usually named to be the first power metal song, but I don't think the rest of their songs is power metal.

Rainbow-power metal??? Are you people insane? Rainbow is a hard rock. Later they became maybe even something like pop-hard-rock with Turner as vocalist. Rainbow formed Ritchie Blackmore after Deep Purple split up. and Ritchie has nothing to do with power metal. Dio has nothing to do with power metal either. Dio is a classic heavy metal singer (by the way, he is in my top 5 singers of all time).
I think that power metal started Yngwie Malmsteen.

Big four of Power Metal:
1. Blind Guardian
2. Helloween
3. Gamma Ray
4. Stratovarius

But Sabaton is also great! so is Edguy, Hammerfall...
My top power metal band is Iced Earth, but I think they are more something like Power/Thrash metal, so I didnt put them in big four. Anyway, I recomend them to you, my friend! I even saw them live. that guitarist Jon Schaffer eats James Heatfield for breakfast...
Sorry for my not-good English.

Written by LichBorne on 25.10.2011 at 13:53
Rainbow is a hard rock.

Hard rock/heavy metal.

Written by LichBorne on 25.10.2011 at 13:53

Written by Aristarchos on 27.12.2010 at 16:21

Written by Death To Posers on 18.12.2010 at 00:49

Not sure if someone said this already but what about Rainbow? Especially with Dio. IMHO those guys were power metal before we got into labeling and trying to define every category and sub-category got kind of ridiculous. Songs like "Temple of The King", "Man on Silver Mountain" could be considered power metal, they just didn't call themselves that. Also Dios solo projects have songs that could be considered power metal.

"Kill The King" is usually named to be the first power metal song, but I don't think the rest of their songs is power metal.

Rainbow-power metal??? Are you people insane? Rainbow is a hard rock. Later they became maybe even something like pop-hard-rock with Turner as vocalist. Rainbow formed Ritchie Blackmore after Deep Purple split up. and Ritchie has nothing to do with power metal. Dio has nothing to do with power metal either. Dio is a classic heavy metal singer (by the way, he is in my top 5 singers of all time).
I think that power metal started Yngwie Malmsteen.

Only one song with Rainbow could be considered power metal. Most is hard rock. But Yngwie is a borderline to metal too, and more neoclassical than power.

Written by Aristarchos on 27.10.2011 at 18:03

Written by LichBorne on 25.10.2011 at 13:53

Written by Aristarchos on 27.12.2010 at 16:21

Written by Death To Posers on 18.12.2010 at 00:49

Not sure if someone said this already but what about Rainbow? Especially with Dio. IMHO those guys were power metal before we got into labeling and trying to define every category and sub-category got kind of ridiculous. Songs like "Temple of The King", "Man on Silver Mountain" could be considered power metal, they just didn't call themselves that. Also Dios solo projects have songs that could be considered power metal.

"Kill The King" is usually named to be the first power metal song, but I don't think the rest of their songs is power metal.

Rainbow-power metal??? Are you people insane? Rainbow is a hard rock. Later they became maybe even something like pop-hard-rock with Turner as vocalist. Rainbow formed Ritchie Blackmore after Deep Purple split up. and Ritchie has nothing to do with power metal. Dio has nothing to do with power metal either. Dio is a classic heavy metal singer (by the way, he is in my top 5 singers of all time).
I think that power metal started Yngwie Malmsteen.

Only one song with Rainbow could be considered power metal. Most is hard rock. But Yngwie is a borderline to metal too, and more neoclassical than power.

ye, bu anyway yngwie plays power now. and of all power metal bands today, yngwie is the oldest... so I think its him that started power... I dunno... its just my opinnion.

Written by [user id=111172] on 26.10.2011 at 02:07
I think that the pioneers are Helloween, Grave Digger, Rage & Running Wild

I think the true pioneers of the genre were Helloween. The blueprint for the genre existed long before them, but it was Helloween who took that, and made it into something truly unique. The way they blended speed, aggression and melody on their first EP and debut album, was something that had never been done before. It was a sound quite unlike anything that preceded them. xD

I think I am too young to say Helloween as a pioneer of Power Metal.I didn't heard Helloween very well so I dont have any opinions to construct them as a pioneer. I was introduced to Power Metal by Manowar and then went upto listening Stratovarius, Gamma Ray, Blind Guardian, Nightwish, Holyhel, Powerworlf...! For me it was Manowar

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 30.10.2011 at 17:52

I think I am too young to say Helloween as a pioneer of Power Metal.I didn't heard Helloween very well so I dont have any opinions to construct them as a pioneer. I was introduced to Power Metal by Manowar and then went upto listening Stratovarius, Gamma Ray, Blind Guardian, Nightwish, Holyhel, Powerworlf...! For me it was Manowar

Manowar is not even Powermetal. It's standard Heavy Metal.
The other bands you mention are Powermetal, however.

Written by RavenKing on 30.10.2011 at 17:54

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 30.10.2011 at 17:52

I think I am too young to say Helloween as a pioneer of Power Metal.I didn't heard Helloween very well so I dont have any opinions to construct them as a pioneer. I was introduced to Power Metal by Manowar and then went upto listening Stratovarius, Gamma Ray, Blind Guardian, Nightwish, Holyhel, Powerworlf...! For me it was Manowar

Manowar is not even Powermetal. It's standard Heavy Metal.

IMO its a powerful US Power Metal band. They do have some good elements of Heavy Metal enriching their compositions but overall they play quite a good Power Metal stuff.

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 30.10.2011 at 19:45
IMO its a powerful US Power Metal band.

They might have some power metal elements but overall Manowar are best known as a heavy metal band.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 30.10.2011 at 20:06

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 30.10.2011 at 19:45
IMO its a powerful US Power Metal band.

They might have some power metal elements but overall Manowar are best known as a heavy metal band.

This is about pioneering, so Manowar can be named here just as Rainbow, even though they aren't power metal they did influence and more o less pioneered power metal.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 30.10.2011 at 20:10
This is about pioneering

I know that.

He didn't say they were pioneers, he just said they play power metal. While I agree they definitely helped pioneer the genre, I wouldn't call them a power metal band before I would a heavy metal one.

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 30.10.2011 at 19:45

IMO its a powerful US Power Metal band. They do have some good elements of Heavy Metal enriching their compositions but overall they play quite a good Power Metal stuff.

Their music is too slow and basic (simplistic) to be called Powermetal.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 30.10.2011 at 20:10
This is about pioneering, so Manowar can be named here just as Rainbow, even though they aren't power metal they did influence and more o less pioneered power metal.

By that token, you may as well call Judas Priest and Iron Maiden power metal pioneers, as I think these 2 bands more than any other, were the biggest influences on early power metal bands. Both bands also contain more power metal elements than Manowar. You could argue that their cheesiness was adopted by many PM bands, but even then, I think that's going a bit far. As cheesy as a lot of power metal is, Manowar are in a different league where that's concerned to most other bands.