Nice to know you like my mom, she's a really nice person...
But why so much hate? I hate too some things, but I don't go nuts with these!!!
Think of Gandhi! Tolerance and Self-Control is everything! I don't like Limp Bizkit, but I tolerate them, when I listen them on the radio. I don't like when the same station doesn't play any other legend metal bands, but I do tolerate that too...

what IS tiring in this so-called discussion is people DENYING that nu-METAL is metal.
I for one don't like nu-metal AT ALL, but I would be one of the last people around to deny them being metal. And they have as much right to be here as another genres I hate, namely Euro Power Metal and Gothic Metal.
And so what if nu-metal is repetitive to some of your ears, well Euro Power Metal is repetitive and boring and has sucky lyrics as well for me and the same goes for Gothic Metal with their lame lyrics. But even in those two genres there are bands with talent just like within nu-metal.
And people keep on goign on about having matured and therefre having grown out of nu-metal. What kind of b.s. is that? I knwo people who got into metal with Euro-power and Gothic metal and also don't listen to it anymore. And guess what they say... that they have matured and therefore grown out of those genres which are also marketed at kids ad are commercial as hell. Yes, people, you read it right, also genres as Euro-power and Gothic metal are music for the masses, are made for MTV (snigger, snigger, as if nu-metal was made for MTV, fuck no, Korn when they started out didn't get any airplay at all cause it was too loud for a thing as MTV) For fuckssake back in the 80s MTV played loads of metal and you wouldn't hear people complaining about that or saying that those bands were just in it for the money.

So, stop whining...

You don't have to like nu-metal but at least recognize the fact that there are bands in that genre that ARE talented (just like any genre has talented and non-talented bands) that there are nu-metal bands that aren't in it for the money and fame (just like in ANY other genre). Just accpet the fact that nu-metal is one of the MANY branches of that diverse tree called metal.

That's what I'm trying to say man!!!

Written by Promonex on 13.11.2006 at 17:17

Written by 4look4rd on 13.11.2006 at 16:56

Im gonna explain:
WHY WE METALHEADS HATE NU-METAL part 100000000000001
Nu metal combines the 2 generes that all metalheads hate, PUNK and RAP, with cheap/cheese/lame/repeted riffs, and ofcorce crapy lyrics.
Nu metal is like adding the cheeseness of punk, the repetition rap, + crepy lyrics

LOL, that actually made me laugh!
You haven't really read ANYTHING in this entire topic, have you? :

And that's why every metalhead hates bands like Slayer, Tankard, Nuclear Assault, Stormtroopers of Death and Suicidal Tendencies, coz they are all more or less punk influenced (and the latter even uses hip hop influences), which is hated by all of us metalheads, right?

And dude, you're a Manowar fan, I don't really think you have the legitimation to blame others of being cheesy

first of all, manowar is self-conscienceously cheesy, just like Gwar (to a slightly lesser extent). Second of all I think you took his punk bashing far too seriously, yeah punk sucks, but slayer (though may be influenced) are a long stretch from punk in comparison to nu-metal.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 15.11.2006 at 11:32

what IS tiring in this so-called discussion is people DENYING that nu-METAL is metal.
I for one don't like nu-metal AT ALL, but I would be one of the last people around to deny them being metal. And they have as much right to be here as another genres I hate, namely Euro Power Metal and Gothic Metal.
And so what if nu-metal is repetitive to some of your ears, well Euro Power Metal is repetitive and boring and has sucky lyrics as well for me and the same goes for Gothic Metal with their lame lyrics. But even in those two genres there are bands with talent just like within nu-metal.
And people keep on goign on about having matured and therefre having grown out of nu-metal. What kind of b.s. is that? I knwo people who got into metal with Euro-power and Gothic metal and also don't listen to it anymore. And guess what they say... that they have matured and therefore grown out of those genres which are also marketed at kids ad are commercial as hell. Yes, people, you read it right, also genres as Euro-power and Gothic metal are music for the masses, are made for MTV (snigger, snigger, as if nu-metal was made for MTV, fuck no, Korn when they started out didn't get any airplay at all cause it was too loud for a thing as MTV) For fuckssake back in the 80s MTV played loads of metal and you wouldn't hear people complaining about that or saying that those bands were just in it for the money.

So, stop whining...

You don't have to like nu-metal but at least recognize the fact that there are bands in that genre that ARE talented (just like any genre has talented and non-talented bands) that there are nu-metal bands that aren't in it for the money and fame (just like in ANY other genre). Just accpet the fact that nu-metal is one of the MANY branches of that diverse tree called metal.

Gothic Metal (in refernce to the more mellodic offshoot of doom like TSotB and Tristania not Witihn Temptation/Lacuna Coil) and power metal are not mainstream marketed. Power metal is so geeky and uncool that it's never going to be radio friendly except as almsot reverse psychology ('this is so lame its cool'), not to mention it is devoid of anger and agression which is the main selling factor for most things in the metal section of record stores. Gothic metal is too dark and miserable. And in the case of symphonic metal, classical music is as far from cool as it gets, and Therion aren't going to be on Scuzz and Kerrang any time soon.


Aside, judging genres on lyrics is foolish. All genres are stale repeated themes of which nu metal is probably not the worst candidate:
Doom - depression
Nu - angst
Glam - sex
Power - fantasy
Black - satanism and winterdemonnecroforestgoats
Folk - drinking and fighting christians
Death - gore

Prog is about the only exception

Haivng said that I don't like nu metal musicaly, and I also dislike the associated fashion/image. I'd rather have my epic mellodies and silk and steel clad Italians.

this was a good article but it was a bit short there is much more to say on the subject about the different ways bands mix up the different sounds for instance some Nu metal bands are much closer to the rap roots and punk roots while others stay truer to their metal roots and just add a bit of the different genres to their music. I dont feel like all new metal bands are bad Slipknot is one of my favorite bands but i do hate other new metal bands actually slipknot is the only nu metal band i like. But people try to be kinda fuckin open mided. and people Killswitch Engage is fucking new metal and they fucking blow

Indeed it's short... I wanted to write the core of the subject. If I started writing too much stuff, people would be bored to read the whole article and the article itself would lose its purpose...
Dude posting once every comment is enough! We got your point the first time

Hey! This is a good article! I've listened many nu-metalbands and haven't disliked none but KoRn abit. I especially like Slipknot.

Written by Darth Satanious on 12.11.2006 at 06:45

This is part of the problem with these Metal fans who bash Nu Metal endlessly: they cannot handle more than two ideas at the time, it seems.

Like i said, if you like Korn and Slipknot riffs - it's ok - no need to insult my brain's ability to process tasks simultaneously! I'll have you know that i am a fan of System of a Down (nu-metal, right?) and while i acknowledge that they are a trully amazing band i still say theyr music is "simple". I would say the majority of nu-metal consists of simple music while the majority of Death, Thrash etc is made up of more complicated music. However, this does not not mean that ALL nu-metal bands have super-easy guitar riffs and All extreme metal groups have insane guitar licks!

System of a Down is NOT Nu-Metal! It's more Alternative ROCK...

I grew up with Nu Metal it sucks theres no way around it all of my friends were allways into that Killswitch Engage Bullet For My Valentine Dumb shit of a band kinda shitty music but i dont claim that its not metal it is Nu metal is still Metal Its Just Shitty metal thats all

OMFG some comments here are so profound!!! But the case is, when I see/hear the phrase shitty metal, I think of power metal.... Oopsy Daisy :rolleseyes:

Written by [user id=12867] on 12.11.2006 at 12:25

What they imply is based upon my perception as well as others in this community, some share similar views in this case.

There is no problem in that. Now, you must not pass perceptions/assumptions as reality for there is where the problem resides.

Written by [user id=1868] on 12.11.2006 at 17:44

@Darth Satanious:
"Do you believe otherwise? Then, tell me what justifies bashing Nu Metal."
Simple. Metalheads who don't accept Nu Metal generally have a better appreciation of metal 'brotherhood'. This might sound like it has no logical connection, but actually communities which accept Nu Metal, take influence of the popular society, ergo lose touch with the 'outiders' world.

To start, you are saying "generally", right? Give me the numbers. Show me the statistics that allow you to fall to this conclusion. Is the people surveyed enough to make such a generalization? Some people have this easy way of throwing results that come from nowhere as if their ideas and generalizations can give them a right to assure that this is reality. Yes, it has no connection, especially when you are arguing that part of the fanbase that a subgenre of Metal gardens is a reason to judge the music, even the fanbase as whole. Thus, here you can see how what I wrote fits perfectly: when there are fans that you consider to ignore X or Y thing (being the "brotherhood" of Metal in this case) direct your cannons towards those fans instead of bashing the bands.

Likewise, that same thing that you are denouncing, taking influence from the media, is driving you and thus influencing you; in an opposite way but it comes to be an influence nonetheless. That is why I stand against this argument. When I asked: "Do you believe otherwise? Then, what justifies bashing Nu Metal?" you told me that the whole ignorance of the "outsiders" and the influence of the popular culture is enough to bash Nu Metal. You did not give me any other reason. Therefore, I see that the only reason that you are giving me, at least for now, is that media exposure and ignorance of an underground world is enough to discriminate the genre, right? If it is so, then the massage that you are giving me is that you would leave anything behind which is related to popular culture, you would even stop listening to the bands you love if they receive acceptance from the popular culture. Where does your musical taste fall into? Are you living just as an opposite reaction against things? Don't you have a mind of your own which can follow its own likes or dislikes independently of other factors?

By the way, I find curious how you feverously try to separate Metal from the rest of the popular music when you lump Metal along with all this music without any distinction in the "Christians Playing Black Metal" thread.

"To you it may sound like a good thing, but in my opinion there should always be a place where those who "don't belong" to popular culture could feel at home."

The question is: what would you do if you find yourself in a reality in which the bands that you love receive media exposure after people come to like them as much as you do? Would you renounce to them? Is their becoming of part of the popular culture a factor to stop listening to them?

"Today difference between metalheads and popular culture blurs and disappears. Metal community changes from counter culture to simple sub-culture. There's no longer anything that could attract outsiders and as such it loses 'fresh' and 'unique' touch. There's no longer anything special about metal. Just some dudes headbanging. That's all there is to it."

This can come to be the idea that the media and the none-Metalhead people could have from Metal but we, the people who have the knowledge, know that there is more to Metal than this. The question is: do we have to worry about the ignorant conclusion in which the rest of the people fall into?

"The breed of metalheads is dying. Instead of laid back people we have band of people who insist on being politically correct on their every step. "Don't bash this, don't bash that. Keep yourself open to popular influence and turn the other cheek when it destroys what you love so much". You like it this way? Fine. But not everyone does."

This doesn't destroy anything. It seems to me that you are too concerned about the popular view of Metal, thinking that it should stay as an unresolved mystery for them, as it remains, and that any "wrong" idea that they can have of Metal will destroy it. Let them be drowned in their own ignorance and "assume" (see how wrong it is to assume) whatever they want about the genre. In the end, only those of us who have the knowledge are the ones to hold the truth and the ones to win any argument regarding our musical genre.

Allow me to give you an example. I was wearing one of my Iron Maiden t-shirts at my University this one day. This t-shirt is the one that has Eddie playing bass as if he was Harris. I entered the Post Office at the University and the old woman attending there direct her words towards me and "assumed" that the band in my t-shirt was Satanic. Her wrong idea of having a monster-like mascot related to the band seemed to be enough for her to swear that the band had a relation with devil worshipping. Now, she was left with no argument when I told her that the drummer was Christian. Do you see what I mean? We cannot live our lives in reaction to what the rest of the people believes, likes and/or dislikes, and if they swear that they know equally or even more about Metal than us Metalheads the time when they will collide to the wall is bound to happen sooner or later; the same goes for ignorant fans.

It is not about being politically correct but defending and destroying the arguments of those who discriminate a genre without real justifications. Yes, we are discussing this last argument of yours but to me the argument has no validity at all as do the rest presented here. The rock is at the side of your field now and it is time for you to prove me wrong, if it is in your interest.

Again, I perceive this stance of you of rejecting anything that threatens the underground approach of Metal. In my case, I don't listen to Metal because it is underground but because I find it enjoyable and thus anything that I find as such has my attention regardless of it's status of popularity.

"What you said there also is what you're talking about. You actually assumed I have no reason to say this, didn't you? But proof that this is Metallica's aim is so obvious that it hurts. Or maybe you somehow didn't notice their change of attitude towards money?"

I haven't assumed anything at all. All the time I have been asking you for evidence so that I can pass what seems to be assumptions from you as facts. However, you haven't shown me any evidence yet, just more and more conclusions that come from your common sense which, as I presented before with the Square-World analogy, isn't that reliable to begin with.

What you find as obvious does not come to be necessarily the explanation of how reality works. We human beings are forced to see things as we have experienced and make them fit within our mind's schemes. It is of the wisest to understand that there are things unknown to us that we have yet to experience and that we could possibly never have the chance to. These things can come to be aspects of life such as the purpose of our life (if there is any), the intentions behind human beings (as in this case), etc. We can only play with the reasons of why, but we should never hold this assumptions as the definite reality.

When you talk about the bitching of Metallica with money, are you talking about the whole Napster incident? Just for the record, as far as what I have found, the lawsuit made by Metallica against Napster was done in 2000 and Metallica already took a different direction with their music in their ?And Justice For All album and the definite redirection in the Black Album; this comes to be in the late 80s and early 90s. In addition, another band joined the efforts against Napster and it was the grim band Motley Crue; I just felt that I should mention this.

Metallica is not the only band to worry about money. I remember a band (I tried to look for the band over the Internet but I couldn't find anything to remind me which band was) that wasn't famous at all and that was requesting fans not to make bootleg versions of the DVD they were putting out. The same goes with a band such as Orphaned Land which has MP3s for download at their website but which still request fans to buy their albums, just giving the free MP3s to those who cannot get to find the albums. Does this make bands to look as money-eaters? Why shouldn't they have earns out of their creativity? Is Metallica bound to stop from requesting what is theirs just because they have enough money? Are artist forced to complain about money losses for music download just before a certain amount of money earned? Does a band not commercially successful as it is Orphaned Land with more right of being concerned about the earning of their creativity than a band such as Metallica which has millions? Can't musicians reach millionaire status after their musical creations? Are musicians bound to be humble enough as to renounce to the earnings of their works?

"I don't totally agree with those bands being added there, but I don't bash them for doing so either. It's their site and they can do whatever they want.
As for staying away from true metal this way, from my experience the bands they add this way are rather borderline and usually their members are connected with metal in one way or another. I know this is the case for Dargaard, Piorun, Perunwit, Fejd or Of The Wand & The Moon. I don't know about those bands listed by wiki, so I cannot comment on that."

What we are talking about here is regarding their so called dedication to Metal when they add these bands by having a relation to Metal bands when they do not add any Nu Metal bands which come to be real bands within the Metal world. Additionally, a member from Slipknot is also related to other Metal bands that are even featured in Metal Archives. Joey Jordisson played live drums for Satyricon, composed a song for Glenn Benton, did guess vocals in a Necrophagia song and currently plays drums for the band Ministry. Slipknot is not only Metal but is also related to other Metal bands. Now, is Slipknot added to Metal Archives? No. But why is that?

"Bacause I took a look at history of metal community and how it developed. Such mentality evolved together with evolution of metal from the rock music. It was also response to the wave of commercial music (back then music commercialisation wasn't as normal as it is today, so it caused strong responses)."

Please, don't try to insult my intelligence trying to play with the sentences in order to correct what you said. We are not talking about evolution here; we are talking about what you said that the idea behind Metal since the beginning was "to reject the modern lifestyle". Before there were Metal fans in the World the genre had to be first created in order to have people liking it. There was no Metal community that could share similar thoughts, it developed and had an evolution as you said but then again you weren't talking about the evolution of Metal back there but of its creation instead.

Are you also trying to say that Nu Metal was crafted to receive popular acclaim? Where do you take this from? When something is started or created is impossible to tell what the outcome of this creation will be. I already wrote about his previously in the "True Metal" thread in the General Forum so I won't write it all again. Instead, I will give you the link:

[url] http://www.metalstorm.ee/forum/topic.php?topic_id=1465&topicsearch=&page=3[/url]

Are you saying that Nu Metal is commercialized Metal? How do you know this? What made you fall to this conclusion? As I said before, if the level of accessibility in the style of bands is an excuse to call them as "commercial", then those Gothic, Melodic Death, Folk, Symphonic, Power, Heavy, etc. bands are commercial to the eyes of the most extreme and musically demanding genres of Metal.

"You made another assumption, didn't you?"

Which one? I am asking you for evidence as I have done throughout the whole post in order to validate that which you assure me; I am not saying that you don't know what you are talking about, I am just asking for evidence. However, you haven't presented me any facts that support what you said but instead you took another turn and changed from talking about the creation of Metal to its evolution.

"Also, I'm interested in how you simplify everything to make a point. Or do you actually believe the world is that simple? I mean, sure - let's put Iron Maiden next to any Nu Metal band. Obviously if both earn a lot of money, it must be from same reasons, right?"

The World and all within it is far from being simple for it is full of complexity and secrets; however, understanding this is very simple and that is what I have been pointing out since the beginning. Not every band in this World can stand to the side of Iron Maiden, but not just Nu Metal bands but several other bands from the rest of the Metal subgenres. The importance of Iron Maiden within Metal is exceptional due to their heavy influence and, excluding Bathory, any band in your profile does not have the right to be compared to Iron Maiden in importance within Metal, even when I could possibly consider them as being good and great.

If they sell albums is because people who have gotten to know those bands liked what they heard. It is as simple as that. Of course that there are bands out there that deserve equal and even more recognition than some bands that have gotten famous but this is not only for bands of Nu Metal but other bands of other genres. It is neither a factor to go and bash the bands. Now, are you complaining that the bands you consider worthy do not receive the media exposure they deserve? I ask because, if that is the case, I am confused for I received the message that relation to popular culture was taboo for you and thus media exposure is not a virtue but a degrading thing.

"But no, okay. Let's be politically correct. Nu Metal bands are so popular because they're extremely talented."

It is not about being politically correct but about being objective throughout this whole matter. Of course that seeing people who just listen to two or three bands and declare themselves the ultimate Metal fans pisses off, but you have to separate those feelings from the fact that not every fan from those bands are like that, that ignorant fans are found everywhere, that the bands have nothing to do with those fans, and that their music has nothing to do with your resentment. It is as if I decide to call all Christians assholes just because some of them try to throat-shove their believes in me.

If you are to question the talent that Nu Metal bands can have, direct yourself to my first post here and argue that which I have written there. And, if we are going to reject bands because there are far more talented bands than them, then stop listening to Korpiklaani for there are far more talented bands than that band. By the way, Joey Jordisson can play whatever Matti Johansson comes up with without even sweating.

Yes, there are some simplistic songs within Nu Metal but not just within this genre, not just within Metal but everywhere. Is all simplistic music bound to be regarded as less just because of that: their simplicity? Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata is very simple but it doesn't take a single ounce out of the greatness from that masterpiece.

"I'll also add that it was only Metallica's inspiration that turned them to the new sound. And it's nothing more than a coincidence that it happened in the same period of time when Lars started bitching about money."

I think I already answered this up there. I think I have answered everything you directed towards me and if I skipped something point it out for me. Likewise, I hope you do the same and discuss every point I have brought, if you are to answer this post, of course.

Written by 4look4rd on 13.11.2006 at 21:32

Written by Promonex on 13.11.2006 at 17:17

Written by 4look4rd on 13.11.2006 at 16:56

Im gonna explain:
WHY WE METALHEADS HATE NU-METAL part 100000000000001
Nu metal combines the 2 generes that all metalheads hate, PUNK and RAP, with cheap/cheese/lame/repeted riffs, and ofcorce crapy lyrics.
Nu metal is like adding the cheeseness of punk, the repetition rap, + crepy lyrics

LOL, that actually made me laugh!
You haven't really read ANYTHING in this entire topic, have you? :

And that's why every metalhead hates bands like Slayer, Tankard, Nuclear Assault, Stormtroopers of Death and Suicidal Tendencies, coz they are all more or less punk influenced (and the latter even uses hip hop influences), which is hated by all of us metalheads, right?

And dude, you're a Manowar fan, I don't really think you have the legitimation to blame others of being cheesy

I did read some, however I got really bored. I think that WE are metalheads, and even if you dont want to admit we all are closeminded, and thats a good thing, we dont want our favorite kind of music to be converted in a "money machine", and also we dont want posers do listen it. Thats also why people hate metalheads like us.

Believe me, if you got bored of the posts written here we can be bored doubly by these senseless arguments that you people are coming up with. This that you have written has been written like five times before here; it seems as if you are all the same person but with different usernames. If you believe that these reasons you have given here are arguments, try to destroy the arguments I have brought in my first post here. I dare you to try and shut my mouth. I have discussed every single one of these arguments you have just mentioned.

Stop with this generalizations by using that "we this, we that" of yours. I am a Metalhead and I don't agree with any of your inconsistent arguments. Also, I listen to Punk and I like it very much and, as I have seen, there are Metalheads here who listen to Rap music so don't come up with this unfounded generalizations.

By the way, you didn't answer Promonex's argument about how cheesy is Manowar, band that is in your favorite list, while you denounce a supposed cheesiness of Nu Metal and thus seeing it is a bad aspect of the music. Also your argument about Punk being degrading when used as an influence and how Thrash was conceived out of Hardcore Punk. When you are proved wrong, the least you can do is accept your mistakes.

You say that Nu Metal lyrics are crappy? Let us take this song in consideration:

Mudvayne - Nothing To Gein

Cold and silent, soiled face I will wash it all away,
With my love,
That's all she's ever needed, from me
It's my time, to mother,
One of my own in my life,
I am so alone, left with no one
In my life, I'm so alone

Life submissiveness,
Hypnotizing the ignorant a little boy's best friend's always his
mother,
At least that's what she said,
Life of a simple man,
Taught that everyone else is dirty,
And their love is meaningless,
I'm just a soiled dirty boy,
I'm just a soiled dirty boy,

Sheltered life innocence,
Insulated memories, spark reflections of my head,
Duality in my consciousness,
Caught in the war of hemispheres,
Between the love lost in my head,
Mommy do you still live inside of me,
I'm so lost in my life without any guiding,
Protected me my whole life from everything,
Nailed shut the doors to the shrine,
To screen your dead eyes from me and my sickness,
Mutilate and sew my new clothes for masquerading,
Aprons of flesh corpse scalped hair with skin upon my face,

Deliver the remains from her womb of earth,
Prep the rack and tie up for new love's rebirth,
Covert understanding of novice surgery,
I'll focus concentration and only take just what I need
For sickness I'm masticating,
Dancing and masturbating,
Celebrate in fields of night with skin upon my face

If I soak my hands in others blood am I sick,
If I wash my hands in others blood am I sick,
If I drench myself in others blood am I sick,
If I bathe myself in others blood

Blame mother for the sickness,
Mutilate and sew my new clothes for masquerading,
Aprons of flesh corpse scalped hair with skin upon my face,
Dance and masturbate in night light by myself..

Nothing is left for me to gain they're coming to take me far
away,

[Chorus]

Life of a simple man taught that everyone else is dirty and love is
meaningless
I'm so soiled
Soiled

This song was inspired by famous American killer Theodore Gein whose curiously bizarre killings, actions and life inspired movies such as Psycho (movie regarded as one of the most important horror movies of all time) and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Gein's personality was molded after his mother's strictness, who kept him from having friends, told him that all women apart from her were all whores, and that sex was only acceptable for procreation for Gein's mother was a fanatic religious person. She once doused Gein in scalding water after catching him masturbating in a bathtub. Additionally, she read both Gein and his brother passages from the Bible, mainly from the Old Testament, which dealt with death, murder and divine retribution. Gein's isolation led him to mannerisms and anti-social behaviors such as randomly laugh as if he would be laughing about his own jokes.

After this relationship between Gein and his mother, Gein developed a love-hate sentiment towards his mother. Once she died, he found himself all alone and incurred into some bizarre actions such as killing people, digging up the corpses of recently buried middle-aged women and practicing Necrophilia by gaining sexual pleasure after playing with his victim's sexual organs, taking off their skins and making several objects out of them including, among others, the creation of vests and masks (Dead Skin Mask from Slayer) out of the bodies. He is said to have told that he dug the bodies of women who resembled his mother. Dresses were made out of the bodies from women what led some people to think that this action was some kind of "insane transvestite ritual" after Gein admitting that he desired a sex change, leading to think about his sexual orientation.

You can take a look at Ed Gein's biographic data at this location:

[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gein[/url]

Regarding the song, if we take a look at the song and just by looking at the title, we can see a play of word between "gain" and "Gein". As if the title announces us that the song will deal with Gein's life that came to be nothing to gain for him. Throughout the song, is presented to us what could easily pass as a monologue of Theodore in the manner of a reflection of what left to him this relationship with his mother, entering in his psyche and getting deeper into his madness and dualism, his dependency of his mother, her lessons, and his depression for his mother's loss.

Of course, nothing related to this song is as deep as songs talking about battles, swords, drinking, etc.

By the way, a Staff member did a review off this album here in Metal Storm, if you are interested in taking a look to what he said here is the link:

http://www.metalstorm.ee/bands/album.php?album_id=6749&band_id=&bandname=Mudvayne

Written by [user id=5959] on 14.11.2006 at 01:44

i still hate nu metal lol, i was a nu metal listener few years ago, but then i realized is crappy, real crappy, repetitive, and all the other stuff 4look4er said. It is anyway you look at it, bad music. Good music does not repeat it self, has a level of complexity and have a hard time writing lyrics. So. NU METAL SUCKS! Get it already.

You criticize Nu Metal of supposedly being repetitive and yet you have The Berzerker listed as one of your favorite bands when they play an Industrial form of Death and Grind and while Industrial, apart from other factors, relies in repetitiveness of riffs and drums patters (see Ministry and Nine Inch Nails). Good music doesn't repeat itself, you say? Then you listen to crap with this assertion of yours.

You say that good music has complexity? Tell me where is the complexity of the song, for example, "Trollhammaren" from Finntroll? This is a good example of what I wrote previously, a song that has a stupid melody, some guitar distortion, and a chorus (in this way that brainwashes after saying "Trollhammaren" like ten times) to keep it all together. Also, it is all very repetitive and has no variety; even Slipknot's "The Blister Exists" song has far more variety in riffs than this song. I like Finntroll, but as I said before, facts remain as facts regardless of opinions and there is this concept called "objectivity" that you should learn.

Yeah, you enjoy masterful lyrics:

Oh what a gal!
She seems such a perfect victim:
This I can tell, for if beauty by guilt,
she's guilty

Ordinarily,
I'd not wish to frighten her or hurt her,
But such beauty inspires one
to give the gift of murder

She's the kind of girl you want to
run up and tackle through a window some floors up
and spatter you both to hell

Come and get it;
your stuffed bunny's at the window,
But not that far out...
Reach little one! Reach!...

I bet that they felt mentally exhausted after writing this masterpiece.

Written by [user id=5959] on 14.11.2006 at 06:55

haha, thats a good joke, emo and nu metal being complex. HAHAHA
and i dont really listen to black metal and goregrind, i like a lot of prog, thrash and death, and some doom. anyway, is way more complex than emo and nu, dont know whats up ur head.

Do you think that laughing at someone's assertion is some kind of answer to it? That is one of the lamest actions you can take. Tell me, what makes this remark so funny? Why does he seem funny to you? Answer with details instead of trying to seem smart by laughing when it just shows that you have nothing to say.

The level of complexity between bands and their music varies and there are often bands that will come to have more complexity than the others and others that will have more complexity than them. Then, does Anathema (band from your favorite list) have to be considered worthless because Dream Theater beats the crap out of them musically speaking? Is Finntroll shit as well?

Written by Mega-Slayer on 14.11.2006 at 07:29

You both have good points,I mean Manowar and Tankard have some really dumb and simplistic music,but damn Metalcore and nu-metal suck dick,I would know I have grown up with them.When I was at my friend josh's b-day party,he played a Bullet For My Valentine album all the way through,and boy was it the biggest most unoriginal and repetitive piece of shit.I looked them up,and they look like fucking posers,they are trying to be gothic and wanksta's at the same time,and that is how all metalcore fans try to dress now.

So you base your perception of Metalcore after a sole band you listened to. Indeed, it is understandable after you, like so many within this thread, incurs to this smart use of generalization:

"they are trying to be gothic and wanksta's at the same time,and that is how all metalcore fans try to dress now"

All Metalcore fans try to look this way? How many have you seen? Like one hundred or one thousand? Do you think that this is enough to say that ALL Metalcore fands dress this way? I haven't seen a sole Metalcore fan dressing this way, the ones I have seen dress with the band's t-shirts and with jeans (as other Metalheads I have seen). I listen to Metalcore and I don't dress like that so there goes your smart use of generalization.

Written by Mega-Slayer on 14.11.2006 at 07:39

Written by Promonex on 14.11.2006 at 07:33

Written by Mega-Slayer on 14.11.2006 at 07:29

I looked them up,and they look like fucking posers,they are trying to be gothic and wanksta's at the same time,and that is how all metalcore fans try to dress now.

Ahhh, now we are back to that argument: "I don't like their looks, so their music is crap" :

Well,I know you cant judge someone by their looks,but I also stated why I didn't like their musical talents,becuse its unoriginal,boring,repetitive and lame.Therefore it appeals to people who dont know REAL metal.

Unoriginality, boringness and repetitiveness are found in all Metal genres and Nu Metal has bands that are far from being this way. Even if you haven't heard a Nu Metal band that isn't unoriginal, boring and repetitive there is always room for bands that you haven't heard and bands that are still yet to come. You haven't heard all there is to hear from Nu Metal as too definitively lay an X mark over it and crucify it forever more. Do you believe that Nu Metal is incapable of coming up with bands that are original, entertaining and that have variation? Why is that? Tell me how do you know it?

Just to start, Nu Metal was something original that separated itself from the rest of the genres, thus the new categorization of style. If there are bands that are ripping the pioneering bands over and over again it is their problem. Nonetheless, the first bands were very original and original bands can spawn any time by now.

Considering something boring is completely subjective and someone can easily disagree with you in regarding this music as boring and this assertion of you have shit of validity.

Nu Metal and Metalcore bands only appeal to fans that don't know anything about Metal, you say? How do you know this? How many people have you seen in order to establish this conclusion? Do you think that those people you have seen are enough as to establish this generalization? Here we have another of these smart Metalstormers who make use of unfounded generalizations. I listen to Nu Metal and Metalcore, does this mean that I know shit of this supposed "real" Metal. Nu Metal and Metalcore are as real Metal as Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Black Metal, Folk Metal, Gothic Metal and so forth. If subgenres of Metal are not to be considered as "real" Metal just because they deviate from the early form of Metal and because they take influence from other musical aspects, then all this subgenres of Metal have done it as well. Try to answer to this, I double dare you.

Written by Mega-Slayer on 14.11.2006 at 19:16

Written by Promonex on 14.11.2006 at 10:18

Each genre has its good and bad representators. Let's face it, bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan, Burst or The Red Chord are musically far superior to Tankard, Manowar and Korpiklaani. But metalheads don't even acknowledge the first mentioned bands and continue bashing them for the sole reason that they play metalcore instead. "Unoriginal, boring, repetetive and lame" are only the latter mentioned bands and whoever has listened to the first mentioned will agree that those certainly don't match your prejudices of metalcore. The truth is you just bash metalcore and nu metal coz everyone does! I've been like that as well some years ago and I've grown up to see that each genre has good and bad bands and that talent deserves to be acknowledged, whether you like the music or not (I personally can't stand hardcore at all and only very few metalcore). Just like nu metal and metalcore have become trendy, it has become trendy to bash those two genres. If "being against the system" really is the sole purpose of metal as someone else stated in this thread, then one has to ask himself whether he really is against the system if he just does what all the others do.

I have heard plenty of nu-metal and metal-core,like I said I grew up with it.So I have the right to judge what I have heard plenty of.I used to always listen to Limp-Bizkit,Korn,Slipnot,Godsmack and Disturbed,until I listened to great thrash bands and death bands,and then I realized the nu-metal bands had re-used some of their riffs and their shit was very generic.

You have no right to judge that of which you have heard plenty of, you can only judge that which you have heard. You cannot talk about bands of which you have not heard. There are generic bands within every Metal subgenre.

Written by [user id=5431] on 17.11.2006 at 00:00

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 15.11.2006 at 11:32

what IS tiring in this so-called discussion is people DENYING that nu-METAL is metal.
I for one don't like nu-metal AT ALL, but I would be one of the last people around to deny them being metal. And they have as much right to be here as another genres I hate, namely Euro Power Metal and Gothic Metal.
And so what if nu-metal is repetitive to some of your ears, well Euro Power Metal is repetitive and boring and has sucky lyrics as well for me and the same goes for Gothic Metal with their lame lyrics. But even in those two genres there are bands with talent just like within nu-metal.
And people keep on goign on about having matured and therefre having grown out of nu-metal. What kind of b.s. is that? I knwo people who got into metal with Euro-power and Gothic metal and also don't listen to it anymore. And guess what they say... that they have matured and therefore grown out of those genres which are also marketed at kids ad are commercial as hell. Yes, people, you read it right, also genres as Euro-power and Gothic metal are music for the masses, are made for MTV (snigger, snigger, as if nu-metal was made for MTV, fuck no, Korn when they started out didn't get any airplay at all cause it was too loud for a thing as MTV) For fuckssake back in the 80s MTV played loads of metal and you wouldn't hear people complaining about that or saying that those bands were just in it for the money.

So, stop whining...

You don't have to like nu-metal but at least recognize the fact that there are bands in that genre that ARE talented (just like any genre has talented and non-talented bands) that there are nu-metal bands that aren't in it for the money and fame (just like in ANY other genre). Just accpet the fact that nu-metal is one of the MANY branches of that diverse tree called metal.

Gothic Metal (in refernce to the more mellodic offshoot of doom like TSotB and Tristania not Witihn Temptation/Lacuna Coil) and power metal are not mainstream marketed. Power metal is so geeky and uncool that it's never going to be radio friendly except as almsot reverse psychology ('this is so lame its cool'), not to mention it is devoid of anger and agression which is the main selling factor for most things in the metal section of record stores. Gothic metal is too dark and miserable. And in the case of symphonic metal, classical music is as far from cool as it gets, and Therion aren't going to be on Scuzz and Kerrang any time soon.


Aside, judging genres on lyrics is foolish. All genres are stale repeated themes of which nu metal is probably not the worst candidate:
Doom - depression
Nu - angst
Glam - sex
Power - fantasy
Black - satanism and winterdemonnecroforestgoats
Folk - drinking and fighting christians
Death - gore

Prog is about the only exception

Haivng said that I don't like nu metal musicaly, and I also dislike the associated fashion/image. I'd rather have my epic mellodies and silk and steel clad Italians.

Really, you believe that Power Metal has this reception? Why don't you read this that I took from Wikipedia?

Blind Guardian's popularity has continued to grow from an initial following in Europe and Japan to one of the most well-known power metal bands in the world. The single for "And Then There Was Silence," for instance, reached #1 in Spain and #7 in Canada, despite its fourteen-minute length.

A band as aggressive as Devourment won't sell even a quarter of what bands such as Nightwish, Blind Guardian, Sonata Arctica, etc. sell. After Nu Metal and Metalcore, the most fans of Metal I have met listen to Power Metal.

Classical music is very cool to listen to; there are several people in this World that listen to it. The fact that Classical Music is not radio friendly doesn't mean that it has several followers.

That list of lyrical themes can only characterize the genres, but never to limit them. Progressive Metal is far from being the "last Coca Cola in the desert" for there are Prog bands that have lyrics from this other genres and there are bands from these other genres that write about the themes that Progressive bands write about.

Written by Remus on 17.11.2006 at 23:04

Written by Darth Satanious on 12.11.2006 at 06:45

This is part of the problem with these Metal fans who bash Nu Metal endlessly: they cannot handle more than two ideas at the time, it seems.

Like i said, if you like Korn and Slipknot riffs - it's ok - no need to insult my brain's ability to process tasks simultaneously! I'll have you know that i am a fan of System of a Down (nu-metal, right?) and while i acknowledge that they are a trully amazing band i still say theyr music is "simple". I would say the majority of nu-metal consists of simple music while the majority of Death, Thrash etc is made up of more complicated music. However, this does not not mean that ALL nu-metal bands have super-easy guitar riffs and All extreme metal groups have insane guitar licks!

You said that pointing out that one likes Nu Metal is "getting out of the closet" and acknowledging that one likes Nu Metal is no reason to be ashamed of. The only ones who can be afraid of acknowledging that they like Nu Metal are the ones who want to fit in the circle of these ignorant so-called experts of Metal that discriminate Nu Metal senselessly. I prefer to hang out with someone that only listens to Nu Metal because he/she doesn't like the other Metal subgenres than an ignorant person who discriminates Nu Metal for no reason and that swears that he/she is superior to any Nu Metal fan after this. Nu Metal fans that swear that the Metal world starts and finishes in Nu Metal and Metalheads that swear that Nu Metal is shit without any justifications are both ignorant that I regard equally.

Darth, you may have put forward brilliant rebuttals, but I personally think you've taken the whole matter way too seriously, judging from what you have typed above. I think it's best that this article gets deleted, like the last one that appeared, otherwise it will be an eternal and utterly pointless argument between those in favour and those who oppose nu metal as a whole or just a fraction of it.

Well I support Darth Satanious wholeheartedly. Seriously @Darth, this needed to be said!!! Personally I am totally fed up with arguing about nu metal and I have accepted the fact that ignorance of people about nu metal who hate it will probably never disappear. It took some time to read it, but I agree with each word he said.

Especially the thing that people who listen to nu metal and metalcore don't know any good metal: I started out with rock and Metallica then went on with black metal, went on to gothic and thrash and THEN I got to Nu Metal, so that argumentation had no weight at all, so nobody will ever tell me I don't know good metal.

Written by [user id=12867] on 21.11.2006 at 13:19

Darth, you may have put forward brilliant rebuttals, but I personally think you've taken the whole matter way too seriously, judging from what you have typed above. I think it's best that this article gets deleted, like the last one that appeared, otherwise it will be an eternal and utterly pointless argument between those in favour and those who oppose nu metal as a whole or just a fraction of it.

What? You dare compare my article with the last "I hate nu metal??!!" That wasn't even an article, it was something belonging to a forum, that's why it got deleted. The solution of deleting articles and halting the mouth of the press is FASCIST behaviour. You can't just recomend an article for deletion because of some arguments. Read the title better "Nu Metal - A Controversial Subject". Controversional means something debatable/disputable. It's natural to cause different opinions and debates.
It's easy to suggest deleting an article from the comfort of your sofa... Have ever tried writing one?

That was beyond a shadow of doubt one of the most boring set of posts I have ever read, but I read it all none the less to gain a deeper understanding of the subject. Everyone here has got their own opinions of the subject, myself included so there is no point in me providing it (getting a bit repetitive would you all not agree?) so I propose a solution...

Make friends with a Nu Metal fan, borrow some of his/her C.D.s and lend him/her some of yours. Then a week later discuss what you have heard with this friend of yours, stating good points or bad points, if there are any, stating why you think so. This is what I have been doing for sometime now and while I have NOT converted I can appreciate aspects of Nu Metal, and whats great is my Nu Metal friend has grown to appreciate my favourite styles of metal.

NOTE: appreciate does not mean "like" it means "respect"

I know this sounds like a stupid idea but it helps to keep you passionate about the music, which is the most important thing.

I personally think that there is a place and time for all styles of music, I have found that Nu Metal strikes a good compromise so that if you are with a group of people that likes a variety of different music there is something for everyone. When I put Gorgoroth on around my friends I am guaranteed complaints, but Nu Metal is something everyone can deal with.

Sharing music around is great, (especially when a friend is singing lyrics to Amon Amarth when he doesnt know you are listening, true story by the way). I have got to the point where I am willing to go to Nu Metal concerts and my friends are willing to come to Death Metal/Black Metal/Thrash Metal etc concerts with me.

Basically instead of trying to find faults with a genra try and learn about it, at the same time teach someone about your genra. At the very least you will have fun debating with someone (the above posts, excempting some, is not a debate it is petty bickering). I tried to keep this post as neutral as possible but I also like to swap ideas so if anyone has something they would like to say to me even if it isnt something good p.m me.

Written by iaberis on 21.11.2006 at 23:20

Written by [user id=12867] on 21.11.2006 at 13:19

Darth, you may have put forward brilliant rebuttals, but I personally think you've taken the whole matter way too seriously, judging from what you have typed above. I think it's best that this article gets deleted, like the last one that appeared, otherwise it will be an eternal and utterly pointless argument between those in favour and those who oppose nu metal as a whole or just a fraction of it.

What? You dare compare my article with the last "I hate nu metal??!!" That wasn't even an article, it was something belonging to a forum, that's why it got deleted. The solution of deleting articles and halting the mouth of the press is FASCIST behaviour. You can't just recomend an article for deletion because of some arguments. Read the title better "Nu Metal - A Controversial Subject". Controversional means something debatable/disputable. It's natural to cause different opinions and debates.
It's easy to suggest deleting an article from the comfort of your sofa... Have ever tried writing one?

No, not quite Iaberis. You obviously didn't get why i said that, it was because of Darth, not your article in particular.

Written by [user id=14346] on 22.11.2006 at 07:59

That was beyond a shadow of doubt one of the most boring set of posts I have ever read, but I read it all none the less to gain a deeper understanding of the subject. Everyone here has got their own opinions of the subject, myself included so there is no point in me providing it (getting a bit repetitive would you all not agree?) so I propose a solution...

Make friends with a Nu Metal fan, borrow some of his/her C.D.s and lend him/her some of yours. Then a week later discuss what you have heard with this friend of yours, stating good points or bad points, if there are any, stating why you think so. This is what I have been doing for sometime now and while I have NOT converted I can appreciate aspects of Nu Metal, and whats great is my Nu Metal friend has grown to appreciate my favourite styles of metal.

NOTE: appreciate does not mean "like" it means "respect"

I know this sounds like a stupid idea but it helps to keep you passionate about the music, which is the most important thing.

I personally think that there is a place and time for all styles of music, I have found that Nu Metal strikes a good compromise so that if you are with a group of people that likes a variety of different music there is something for everyone. When I put Gorgoroth on around my friends I am guaranteed complaints, but Nu Metal is something everyone can deal with.

Sharing music around is great, (especially when a friend is singing lyrics to Amon Amarth when he doesnt know you are listening, true story by the way). I have got to the point where I am willing to go to Nu Metal concerts and my friends are willing to come to Death Metal/Black Metal/Thrash Metal etc concerts with me.

Basically instead of trying to find faults with a genra try and learn about it, at the same time teach someone about your genra. At the very least you will have fun debating with someone (the above posts, excempting some, is not a debate it is petty bickering). I tried to keep this post as neutral as possible but I also like to swap ideas so if anyone has something they would like to say to me even if it isnt something good p.m me.

I have far more friends beyond metal and i know they wouldn't even accept this idea, so where does the solution lie?

Written by [user id=14346] on 22.11.2006 at 07:59

That was beyond a shadow of doubt one of the most boring set of posts I have ever read, but I read it all none the less to gain a deeper understanding of the subject. Everyone here has got their own opinions of the subject, myself included so there is no point in me providing it (getting a bit repetitive would you all not agree?) so I propose a solution...

Make friends with a Nu Metal fan, borrow some of his/her C.D.s and lend him/her some of yours. Then a week later discuss what you have heard with this friend of yours, stating good points or bad points, if there are any, stating why you think so. This is what I have been doing for sometime now and while I have NOT converted I can appreciate aspects of Nu Metal, and whats great is my Nu Metal friend has grown to appreciate my favourite styles of metal.

NOTE: appreciate does not mean "like" it means "respect"

I know this sounds like a stupid idea but it helps to keep you passionate about the music, which is the most important thing.

I personally think that there is a place and time for all styles of music, I have found that Nu Metal strikes a good compromise so that if you are with a group of people that likes a variety of different music there is something for everyone. When I put Gorgoroth on around my friends I am guaranteed complaints, but Nu Metal is something everyone can deal with.

Sharing music around is great, (especially when a friend is singing lyrics to Amon Amarth when he doesnt know you are listening, true story by the way). I have got to the point where I am willing to go to Nu Metal concerts and my friends are willing to come to Death Metal/Black Metal/Thrash Metal etc concerts with me.

Basically instead of trying to find faults with a genra try and learn about it, at the same time teach someone about your genra. At the very least you will have fun debating with someone (the above posts, excempting some, is not a debate it is petty bickering). I tried to keep this post as neutral as possible but I also like to swap ideas so if anyone has something they would like to say to me even if it isnt something good p.m me.

Shaering tastes like that is indeed a good idea, I do it quite often with friends who listen to totally different sorts of music as well. Country, classical, r&B, etc. friends, and we have a great time doing that. Soemtimes we give each other cd's to listen to and then do some sort of homework on it and compare notes about a week later while enjoying some good food and drinks.

@iaberis?: my article was an article and it got deleted to my own request, because it wasn't of a musical but more psychological nature. At least I wrote it myself without any references and it was a bit too subjective therefore, that is why I had it removed after the mod implied that it lacks musical background and that is what the articles are supposed to be here.

Well, my appologizes then, I didn't mean to insult you

Written by iaberis on 22.11.2006 at 21:39

Well, my appologizes then, I didn't mean to insult you

did you read what i said too?

I have come to the conclusion that so many people are reluctant to stop bashing Nu-Metal because it is their only mean to remain "metal" or "cool" or "true". Of course, I'm generalizing, so don't tell me that I'm wrong, that I'm assuming, bla bla bla. I'm just saying that that's my conclusion for most, if not all, of the people who have come into this article and have posted "Nu-metal sucks!"

Very nice post Darth, I agree with most of the things you said. And yes, Joey Jordison is an awesome drummer, not at all repetitive, not at all un-complex. My only request from now on in this article is to please stop just saying "Nu Metal Sucks ass!", because it's no longer an argument, as it's not an argument to say "they're posers" or "they're uncomplex".

To me, the only reason why I don't enjoy Nu Metal bands in general is because they strike me as falsely motivated to do their music. When I hear Limp Bizkit, I can't help remembering Fred Durst and his ridiculous antics with Britney Spears and his attitude of "I'm so sad and pissed", so I can't listen to his stuff. The only song I liked back in the day was "Break Stuff", and that was before I discoverd Death metal, cause now I listen to the song and I laugh, cause it's so ridiculous to say "give me something to break", as if someone was actually going to come up and say "here you go, Fred, break this plate".

I LOVED the idea of sharing music, I really enjoy talking to my friends about music, especially because they're not familiarized with the styles I like (they think the only difference between Death and Black metal is that in Death there's Cookie Monster Growls and in Black it's high pitched, Dani Filth-style screeches), so I agree with the idea of discussing why you like/dislike certain music styles or bands. Which is why I completely disagree with deleting this article. If anyone does, I'll blow their head off

Keep up the good discussion!

It's Rozz's "defining goth metal" article all over again!

I used to listen to the likes on Marilyn Manson, Korn, Disturbed, Powerman 5000, Downfall, Slipknot, System of a Down a long time ago, I dont hate people that listen to that, its not like Im gonna shove my shit down their throaght, whatever ya know? Because I once used to listen to that stuff when I wasnt aware of the world of metal.
Right now I have my own bias towards nu metal, but I will keep it to myself. This is a critical discussion so bias is left at the door.

Its only when people that listen to that genre criticize other genres because of their own ignorance that gets me off. I dont deny nu metal as metal, that would be unfair of me, and of anyone else. Fine there is stupid fans over there, whatever, idiots are everywhere, also in black/death/power metal. The way I see it, ( and I agree with genocide ) is that people should be made more aware of all genres of metal before judgeing.

There are some nu metal bands that I still every now and then listen to and Im not ashamed of it, deftones, tool, and older korn. Its not like there arent shitty death metal or power metal bands, Im very picky actually when it comes down to listening to a new extreme metal band.

I did not read all post, I'll just give my opinion about Nu-Metal.

I may like some things about it, but in general, I don't like it... not for following the treads of metal, just because... I don't feel the music. I listen to melodic metal like Siebenbürgen, Summoning, Catamenia... not only these one, many other well anyway... I may like one song nu-metal on an allbum but thats all

Written by [user id=12867] on 21.11.2006 at 13:19

Darth, you may have put forward brilliant rebuttals, but I personally think you've taken the whole matter way too seriously, judging from what you have typed above. I think it's best that this article gets deleted, like the last one that appeared, otherwise it will be an eternal and utterly pointless argument between those in favour and those who oppose nu metal as a whole or just a fraction of it.

Thanks for the first but really, do you think that there is another way to take this whole matter than seriously? If I offended someone, I apologize but there have been too much unfounded bashing towards Nu Metal already.

Written by AnGina-- on 21.11.2006 at 20:04

Well I support Darth Satanious wholeheartedly. Seriously @Darth, this needed to be said!!! Personally I am totally fed up with arguing about nu metal and I have accepted the fact that ignorance of people about nu metal who hate it will probably never disappear. It took some time to read it, but I agree with each word he said.

Especially the thing that people who listen to nu metal and metalcore don't know any good metal: I started out with rock and Metallica then went on with black metal, went on to gothic and thrash and THEN I got to Nu Metal, so that argumentation had no weight at all, so nobody will ever tell me I don't know good metal.

Indeed. Here you go, you Phoennix come to be the proof that generalizations can come to be so unwise when made.

Written by [user id=14346] on 22.11.2006 at 07:59

That was beyond a shadow of doubt one of the most boring set of posts I have ever read, but I read it all none the less to gain a deeper understanding of the subject. Everyone here has got their own opinions of the subject, myself included so there is no point in me providing it (getting a bit repetitive would you all not agree?) so I propose a solution...

Make friends with a Nu Metal fan, borrow some of his/her C.D.s and lend him/her some of yours. Then a week later discuss what you have heard with this friend of yours, stating good points or bad points, if there are any, stating why you think so. This is what I have been doing for sometime now and while I have NOT converted I can appreciate aspects of Nu Metal, and whats great is my Nu Metal friend has grown to appreciate my favourite styles of metal.

NOTE: appreciate does not mean "like" it means "respect"

I know this sounds like a stupid idea but it helps to keep you passionate about the music, which is the most important thing.

I personally think that there is a place and time for all styles of music, I have found that Nu Metal strikes a good compromise so that if you are with a group of people that likes a variety of different music there is something for everyone. When I put Gorgoroth on around my friends I am guaranteed complaints, but Nu Metal is something everyone can deal with.

Sharing music around is great, (especially when a friend is singing lyrics to Amon Amarth when he doesnt know you are listening, true story by the way). I have got to the point where I am willing to go to Nu Metal concerts and my friends are willing to come to Death Metal/Black Metal/Thrash Metal etc concerts with me.

Basically instead of trying to find faults with a genra try and learn about it, at the same time teach someone about your genra. At the very least you will have fun debating with someone (the above posts, excempting some, is not a debate it is petty bickering). I tried to keep this post as neutral as possible but I also like to swap ideas so if anyone has something they would like to say to me even if it isnt something good p.m me.

This comes to be an idealistic thing to do but you must understand that first you must have people respecting Nu Metal in order to accept something as album exchange and that is what some posters here and I have been trying to do all along: demonstrating that there is no other reason for not listening to Nu Metal apart from musical taste. However, it seems that no matter what anyone, not just me, do or say Nu Metal bashers won't get to understand this. You know what is close-mindedness? It is not thinking differently, it is staying in your argument, even when proven wrong (well, not proven wrong because close-mindedness comes to be the inability of accepting that you have been proven wrong) even when you have no arguments to refute back.

Written by [user id=12842] on 22.11.2006 at 22:43

I have come to the conclusion that so many people are reluctant to stop bashing Nu-Metal because it is their only mean to remain "metal" or "cool" or "true". Of course, I'm generalizing, so don't tell me that I'm wrong, that I'm assuming, bla bla bla. I'm just saying that that's my conclusion for most, if not all, of the people who have come into this article and have posted "Nu-metal sucks!"

Very nice post Darth, I agree with most of the things you said. And yes, Joey Jordison is an awesome drummer, not at all repetitive, not at all un-complex. My only request from now on in this article is to please stop just saying "Nu Metal Sucks ass!", because it's no longer an argument, as it's not an argument to say "they're posers" or "they're uncomplex".

You said "many people", and saying that you have seen many people is not generalizing but making an observation that you have seen a considerate number of people doing X or Y thing, so there is no problem in that. Additionally, saying that "most of the people who have come into this article have posted "Nu Metal sucks!" can be a correct use of generalization because we can easily view all the pages here and count the posters. Now, I haven't counted them myself so I can't say if most of the people that have posted here have done that. On the other hand, it is impossible to evaluate all the fans of both Nu Metal and Metalcore as to fall to any generalization.

Yes, Joey is talented but I feel that he is restraint in Slipknot. As I have known, he composes a great part of the music so it is not necessarily that he is restraint after what the rest of the musicians compose but also because f what he wants to achieve with their music.

-------------------------------

I think I have made my point and thus I part from this article; unless I am addressed directly of course.

Lol! Darths post is bigger than article it selfe
Never mind me, iaberis, great article, you allmost changed my mind

Written by Eight on 26.11.2006 at 02:15

Lol! Darths post is bigger than article it selfe
Never mind me, iaberis, great article, you allmost changed my mind

It doesn't matter the size of the article, but the quality of the info!!!
Why almost? You mean I failed?