If I'm ridiculous having Believe In Nothing as my favourite Paradise Lost album, what is it not having Headless Cross as favourite Black Sabbath album?

Look man, I do not mean you any harm. I actually like Headless Cross too, and I think you have all the right in the world to have Headless Cross as your favourite. I just think you need to learn how to express yourself in a less arrogant way.

Written by Aristarchos on 03.03.2014 at 13:38

If I'm ridiculous having Believe In Nothing as my favourite Paradise Lost album, what is it not having Headless Cross as favourite Black Sabbath album?

Look man, I do not mean you any harm. I actually like Headless Cross too, and I think you have all the right in the world to have Headless Cross as your favourite. I just think you need to learn how to express yourself in a less arrogant way.

Arrogance? Not one bit. First of all, I cannot find any redeeming quality in Believe in Nothing, it is just average electrogoth Depeche Mode wannabe music that fails badly in contrast with Host that has some good moments. Sure, if we put these on the same pallete with what Theatre of Tragedy done with Musique and Aseembly, it would be superior, but if you compare it with Shades of God, Draconian Times or Gothic... ultimately is average/mediocre material. On the other hand, the Tony Martin BS era is severely underrated due to BS purists worshiping the first 5 albums (even though Ozzy is an abysmal vocalist) and even the Dio years are rather underrated, as Heaven and Hell pretty much redefined the 80s metal scene. I chose Headless Cross simply because it is the most consistent BS work. Great song-writing from top to bottom, great performance, every song has its climax, an occult like atmosphere that sends chills to your spine, and a vocalist that is like the middle choice between Ozzy and Dio. It is also the album that blends succesfuly 70s era BS (Headless Cross) with 80s era BS (Devil and Daughter). It is also a concept album attempt done by the band. The only fault I can find is with the production quality, but it is a small detail which can be easily resolved with a remaster edition that hopefuly, Iommi will release soon. Sabbath never maid a bad album from top to bottom. Even the atrocious Forbideen and the last to 70s era Ozzy albums have at least 1-2 good songs. But the only album that is good from the beginning until the end is Headless Cross. Period.

All I can say is, what a ridiculous list.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.03.2014 at 00:50

All I can say is, what a ridiculous list.

Not only are lists dedicated to ranking one's preference in albums from a single band useless in my opinion, but putting Headless Cross at number one is crazy. Bah if I were to make the same list not a single things would be in the same place. Kudos to the author for staying true to his opinions though.

Njap and I have been acused to talk ''like I dont unerstand metal'' but I never ever have made such list

Written by Alex F on 04.03.2014 at 01:05

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.03.2014 at 00:50

All I can say is, what a ridiculous list.

Not only are lists dedicated to ranking one's preference in albums from a single band useless in my opinion, but putting Headless Cross at number one is crazy. Bah if I were to make the same list not a single things would be in the same place. Kudos to the author for staying true to his opinions though.

I do not get what's the whole hate on Headless Cross... the Tony Martin era is way too underrated. Headless Cross, Tyr and Cross Purposes were great works. I placed Headless Cross on top because it is the only Sabbath album that I liked from the beginning until the end.

Well, surprising choice of album order but hey, everyone is entitled to an opinion

Written by TheMAGAmvm on 03.03.2014 at 14:26

Arrogance? Not one bit.

All I can say is: hahaha

Written by Aristarchos on 04.03.2014 at 19:51

Written by TheMAGAmvm on 03.03.2014 at 14:26

Arrogance? Not one bit.

All I can say is: hahaha

I do not get what you see arogant in my replies. I've been sincere in all of them. Whether you take it as arrogance that is you problem... didn't mean any harm though...

Written by Aristarchos on 03.03.2014 at 13:38

If I'm ridiculous having Believe In Nothing as my favourite Paradise Lost album, what is it not having Headless Cross as favourite Black Sabbath album?

Look man, I do not mean you any harm. I actually like Headless Cross too, and I think you have all the right in the world to have Headless Cross as your favourite. I just think you need to learn how to express yourself in a less arrogant way.

So you think it's arrogant for someone to call something overrated, and here you think it's arrogant for someone to describe their favourite albums in the form of a list? apparently you think everyone is arrogant.

Written by Aristarchos on 03.03.2014 at 13:38

If I'm ridiculous having Believe In Nothing as my favourite Paradise Lost album, what is it not having Headless Cross as favourite Black Sabbath album?

Look man, I do not mean you any harm. I actually like Headless Cross too, and I think you have all the right in the world to have Headless Cross as your favourite. I just think you need to learn how to express yourself in a less arrogant way.

I've only encountered a few of your posts, but I'm not entirely certain you understand what the word "arrogance" means.

Never Say Die! last? Why do people (even Ozzy)hate that album?

Written by KingDiamondHead on 05.03.2014 at 06:48

Though I don't have Headless Cross at the top of my Sabbath list, I think that you are looking at some cold hard truths that a lot of metal fans aren't willing to accept about the founding fathers. I guess that's what some of the other posters are flipping out over. Sure, some of the Ozzy albums are overrated while some of the later non-Ozzy ones are underrated. I thing that it's really more of a testament to the other members contributions, namely Iommi and Geezer.

"Everyone's entitled to their own opinion." Yes, we can't overstate the obvious. I had no idea that one's musical preferences are opinion as opposed to established facts.

The only thing I can pinpoint as being not good at Headless Cross is the production quality (much of it has been resolved on Tyr and the following ones). A remastered version would do this album an immense pleasure, but I do think that this album is a criminaly underrated record for the quality that it contains. The Ozzy era albums are good to brilliant (Paranoid), but some people give too much credit to the debut which IMO and same as Iommi's opinion, was a rushed work. Sure, it influenced heavy metal, it influenced doom metal, but I think their second and third top it. Vol 4 and Sabotage are overrated too while the last two 70s albums are deplorable (except a few tracks).

Dio's era albums are also kind off underrated too (Dehumanizer, Mob Rules) but at least it received some critical acclaim that it really deserved for Heaven & Hell. The Tony Martin era is though a special story. While The Eternal Idol was indeed kinda lackluster, I do not understand what's the reason for hating Headless Cross and Tyr. Even Cross Purposes (though this one is a little bit difficult to stomach as it has some filler tracks). These albums should've been right there with the classics.

Ozzy's BS era is way too overhiped for what it really was. I think that part of hipe comes from Ozzy's status within the metal scene and BS's status for the metal scene. In other words, its just another case of mindless worship the classics which manifests for many bands, especially early ones.

13 was also not a bad album at all, but not brilliant either. The fact that it won the surprise award for 2013 is purely because of the 18 year gap between album releases toppled with the fact that 3 members of the classic line-up contributed on it. If somebody expected another winner can only be labeled as naive.

Written by [user id=4365] on 04.03.2014 at 21:21

Written by Aristarchos on 03.03.2014 at 13:38

If I'm ridiculous having Believe In Nothing as my favourite Paradise Lost album, what is it not having Headless Cross as favourite Black Sabbath album?

Look man, I do not mean you any harm. I actually like Headless Cross too, and I think you have all the right in the world to have Headless Cross as your favourite. I just think you need to learn how to express yourself in a less arrogant way.

So you think it's arrogant for someone to call something overrated, and here you think it's arrogant for someone to describe their favourite albums in the form of a list? apparently you think everyone is arrogant.

What I think is arrogant is to call someone else's opinions ridiculous.

Written by Diverge on 04.03.2014 at 23:37

I've only encountered a few of your posts, but I'm not entirely certain you understand what the word "arrogance" means.

Do you mean that you think I am arrogant? If so, please give me an example where I have started to be arrogant to someone who hasn't been arrogant to me. I really try the best I can to speak in a respectful way towards other people, but if I have failed I really want to know what I should change. I just don't like when people are talking like their opinions is all that matters.

I think this is an interesting list, the general shape of it being... defendable in an argument. There are two comments I would make:

1) Sabotage is way too low on the list. Maybe I like prog and this is the proggiest they ever reached, but it would be top 2 or 3 for me.. .
2) If I had a secret cupboard of shame, it would contain a copy of 'Headless Cross'... I really should know better, but it is a great album... ;-)

Written by Aristarchos on 07.03.2014 at 18:30

Written by Diverge on 04.03.2014 at 23:37

I've only encountered a few of your posts, but I'm not entirely certain you understand what the word "arrogance" means.

Do you mean that you think I am arrogant? If so, please give me an example where I have started to be arrogant to someone who hasn't been arrogant to me. I really try the best I can to speak in a respectful way towards other people, but if I have failed I really want to know what I should change. I just don't like when people are talking like their opinions is all that matters.

Not really. I feel like you use the word indiscriminately, in situations where it honestly shouldn't be applied.

He posted his opinion about the album of choice in the description of the list, and at no point in that description did he exaggerate his own abilities to judge music relative to everyone else. In order to call somebody arrogant, you would need to have textual evidence that was very suggestive of this claim. I wouldn't even call him presumptuous. It's an unconventional order, but he's acknowledged it and has explained why he has ordered the albums this way, especially in relation to the vocalists.

Also, some people DO have ridiculous opinions. It's a phenomenon I see every single day.

Written by Diverge on 09.03.2014 at 18:27

Not really. I feel like you use the word indiscriminately, in situations where it honestly shouldn't be applied.

He posted his opinion about the album of choice in the description of the list, and at no point in that description did he exaggerate his own abilities to judge music relative to everyone else. In order to call somebody arrogant, you would need to have textual evidence that was very suggestive of this claim. I wouldn't even call him presumptuous. It's an unconventional order, but he's acknowledged it and has explained why he has ordered the albums this way, especially in relation to the vocalists.

What I was referring to was this:

Quote:

Quote:

At least Believe In Nothing is my favourite, and then Lost Paradise and Host.

Believe in Nothing and Host are weak albums, quality wise. I placed Host over LP and the other one simply because I like Depeche Mode and this one resembled in several moments that band. But placing these three over Shades of God, Gothic, Draconian Times or even their latest ones, quality wise is just ridiculous.

Written by Diverge on 09.03.2014 at 18:27

Also, some people DO have ridiculous opinions. It's a phenomenon I see every single day.

But I can't say anyone have the right to say that someone else has a ridiculous music taste?

Written by Aristarchos on 10.03.2014 at 14:11

What I was referring to was this:

Quote:

Quote:

At least Believe In Nothing is my favourite, and then Lost Paradise and Host.

Believe in Nothing and Host are weak albums, quality wise. I placed Host over LP and the other one simply because I like Depeche Mode and this one resembled in several moments that band. But placing these three over Shades of God, Gothic, Draconian Times or even their latest ones, quality wise is just ridiculous.

If you don't talk about your opinion in great detail in order to justify it, these are the kind of comments you are to expect. I also don't think this is really arrogance. I don't think it was meant to be a personal attack; it was just sort of absurd to him. It's just some guy's opinion on the Internet. Get used to it. Besides, I think it is clear that the author of this post has a taste in metal that is odd to a lot of people, so you shouldn't really feel this upset about the situation.

Written by Diverge on 09.03.2014 at 18:27

Also, some people DO have ridiculous opinions. It's a phenomenon I see every single day.

But I can't say anyone have the right to say that someone else has a ridiculous music taste?

You can certainly tell other people that they have a ridiculous music taste-- provided you're prepared to back up your comments with justifications of your own. Or you can just grin and bear it. Some people really don't like the albums I listen to and rate highly, but I'm not going to go insane if someone tells me my 2014 list is just ridiculous. I don't really take myself or my opinions too seriously.

Written by Diverge on 10.03.2014 at 14:47

You can certainly tell other people that they have a ridiculous music taste-- provided you're prepared to back up your comments with justifications of your own.

Of course it wasn't meant as a personal attack, but I don't think the purpose is the most important.

Which justifications can legitimize someone to call other's music taste ridiculous?

Totally agree with you that the post-Dio era Black Sabbath is WAAAAAAY underrated. Love the Tony Martin era (Tyr is pretty awesome), and Born Again is really overlooked too.

Hate the Tony Martin-era, and if you ask me the White Sabbath Dio-era is WAAAAY overrated. The Ozzy-era deserves all the ass-kissing it gets, sans Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die (though I did really like that title track).

Like Marcel said, this is a ridiculous list.

Written by [user id=101272] on 16.03.2014 at 18:20

The Ozzy-era deserves all the ass-kissing it gets... Like Marcel said, this is a ridiculous list.

To be fair, he put Paranoid at #2 and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath at #3, so obviously he appreciates the Ozzy-fronted version of the band as well