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Original post

Posted by Arian Totalis, 26.05.2007 - 21:32
So, I was listening to a conversation about multi-million dollar corperations and stocks, when it suddenly dawned on me that I could open a thread about this.I notice that there are already a few smoke related threads on here, but there is no actual thread about the subject of smoking. This thread is basicly exactly what the title says, what is you oppinion about smoking? Be detailed, about things like smoking in public places, around children, age apropriate, whether or not you smoke, if it should even be allowed to continue legally.

As for my personal oppinion, I personally don't smoke, but I know lots of people that do. I have family that smokes, my parents smoke, I have friends that smoke, I witness people doing it every day, after school, in the park, at resteraunts, etc. The Way I see it, it is someones personal choice to smoke or not, and should be legal. However I choose not to smoke because in my oppinion choosing to do so is stupid, because you have to spend excess amounts of money on a habbit which is quite frankly useless, you can contract terminal illnesses, and it has a ridiculous amount of poisons in it. On the subject of poisons, I feel that th government should probably step in and remove all unnatural additives, and sell the tobaco as a pure product. I feel that it is quite frankly wrong to put addictive chemicals in a product to make it sell better. So I feel people would be a lot better off if that were a forced maneuver. On the subject of smoking around children, I don't think it's so bad really. I'm used to being around it and I don't smoke, so I don't see the big deal. I do have a problem with women smoking or being around smoke while pregnant though, because that damages and deforms fetuses, and I think to myself Fucking trash bitch when I see a pregnant woman smoking. Oddly enough my mother smoked when she was pregnant with me and I was lucky enough to come out only with Johndas. So this of course only further fuels my hatred for it.

So what about you guys?
10.01.2011 - 12:40
Doc G.
Full Grown Hoser
Staff
Written by Guest on 08.01.2011 at 23:57

Stuff like ecstasy, cocaine, LSD etc. are far less destructive

I've never known anyone to O.D. from a cigarette.
----
"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
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10.01.2011 - 15:38
!J.O.O.E.!
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Written by Doc G. on 10.01.2011 at 12:40

Written by Guest on 08.01.2011 at 23:57

Stuff like ecstasy, cocaine, LSD etc. are far less destructive

I've never known anyone to O.D. from a cigarette.

I've never known anyone to OD from ecsasy or LSD either. It just doesn't happen, not in any practical way, not the way people think it does.

I haven't known any of the above to give you lung or throat cancer. Look up how many people die per year from that lot then compare it smoking.
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10.01.2011 - 15:43
!J.O.O.E.!
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Written by Zenzero on 09.01.2011 at 23:49


I don't think it... cocaine and lsd are not less destructive than smoking!

The whole cocaine addiction/destruction thing is primarily totally celebrity lead fantasy that gives an out of proportion perspective. It's nowhere near as addicitve as people probably think of it is: it certainly is not physically addictive like people seem to think it is, although I'm not denying some people develop a problem so I may be wrong about its addictiveness in retrospect.

Seriously though, LSD destructive? Can you cite any examples? It's non-addictive, you can do a night of the stuff and then go to work (if you wanted to) and yeah, the only real documented people dying from it are the fabled thinking they can fly thing, which again is the kind of thing people people focus on and probably think there's a chance that would happen. Seriously not gonna happen unless you're unlucky/an idiot. You're a hundreds times more likely to wander into the path of a moving car when drunk.
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10.01.2011 - 15:49
!J.O.O.E.!
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Written by Kennoth on 09.01.2011 at 23:35

Written by Guest on 08.01.2011 at 23:57

cocaine far less destructive


wut?

OT: Never tried smoking in my entire life. And I'm not planning to either. Truly hideous habit. I'm also avid supporter of banning all kinds of indoor smoking. My country has already enacted laws against it, but it seems it's not heavy in practice. There's far less indoor smoking true, but some places go around the law such as registering bars as 'clubs' with 'membership only' cards so that they can be exempt from it.

wut wut? Cocaine is not physically addictive, smoking is ;] Stop thinking the only people that do coke are celebrities. The only time you ever hear about drugs are when celebs die.
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10.01.2011 - 15:58
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Elite
Who's talking about celebrities here?
I know quite a few normal regular people with with a cocaine habit who actually ARE physically addicted to it. It's nonesense claiming cocaine is not physically addictive for quite a lot of people it is. And for others it isn't just like there are regular smokers that are not physically addicted to smoking (not many mind you but there are people like that)
And imo alcohol is still the more dangerous of the two. No I don't smoke and yes I do drink.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
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05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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10.01.2011 - 16:04
!J.O.O.E.!
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Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 10.01.2011 at 15:58

Who's talking about celebrities here?
I know quite a few normal regular people with with a cocaine habit who actually ARE physically addicted to it. It's nonesense claiming cocaine is not physically addictive for quite a lot of people it is. And for others it isn't just like there are regular smokers that are not physically addicted to smoking (not many mind you but there are people like that)
And imo alcohol is still the more dangerous of the two. No I don't smoke and yes I do drink.

It's not a physical addiction, it's a psychological addiction, look it up, it's a myth that it can hook you physically. There are no physical withdrawal symptoms from cocaine. I know someone too who has a coke problem but she has a personality of someone you would expect too. I also know a lot of people that have integrated coke-use into their life and had no problem. It's still a risk, which is why I don't do it myself.

I think you'll probably find most people who have smoked for a period of time are addicted, it's just not an immediate problem nor have they ever tried to quit. Most of the people I've known to try and quit have failed.
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10.01.2011 - 16:11
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Elite
Written by Guest on 10.01.2011 at 16:04

There are no physical withdrawal symptoms from cocaine.


And yet I know a couple of people who have had physical withdrawal syptoms from cocaine.
Just like there are cases of people having gone schyzophrenic of lonng term marijuana use.
All those drugs aren't as harmless as many people make them out to be.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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10.01.2011 - 16:18
!J.O.O.E.!
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Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 10.01.2011 at 16:11

Written by Guest on 10.01.2011 at 16:04

There are no physical withdrawal symptoms from cocaine.


And yet I know a couple of people who have had physical withdrawal syptoms from cocaine.
Just like there are cases of people having gone schyzophrenic of lonng term marijuana use.
All those drugs aren't as harmless as many people make them out to be.

I'm not saying they're harmless I'm saying that the chances of being harmed by them are smaller than people will accept.

Of the millions of people smoking marijuana how many will suffer some psychosis? Like an unbelievably small amount. The chances of you slipping in the bath and smashing your skull open or getting hit by a car or suffering an allergy from a food and having your airway close up are greater risks. In my opinion the biggest killer with drugs is stupidy and lack of education.
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10.01.2011 - 16:31
ForeverDarkWoods
Coke is dopamine-stimulating. This means it causes the "coming down" phenomena, which is completely physical. It has also been suggested many times that dopamine stimulous has a direct link to physical addiction. The nice part about this theory is that it implies that alcohol (a dopamine stimulant for humans) is physically addictive.

LSD, on the other hand, is not dopamine stimulating in any way, it just fucks with your sensory systems. There are some analogs to LSD that can really fuck you up though, such as LSA. Weed, I believe, is also not a dopamine stimulant.

Many of the more dopamine stimulating analogs of cocaine are also proven to be physically addictive, such as crack (which is not cocaine, but is an analog, a chemical that binds to the same receptors while triggering a slightly different response). The non dopamine stimulating analogs are although non-addictive (such as lidocaine, an agent that binds in to the same receptors but doesn't trigger the euphoric response of dopamine release and was formerly used as a painkiller).

I don't think one should make bold statements about the addictive nature of cocaine when there are no really conclusive studies (except for an american study on mice, which pointed to it being extremely addictive). Especially if said person hasn't studied biochemistry/pharmacology. Before making any bold statements I will wait until there is a decent study with results that can be reproduced.
----
Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction!
- George W. Bush, ex-president of the United States of America
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10.01.2011 - 16:36
!J.O.O.E.!
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Written by ForeverDarkWoods on 10.01.2011 at 16:31

Coke is dopamine-stimulating. This means it causes the "coming down" phenomena, which is completely physical. It has also been suggested many times that dopamine stimulous has a direct link to physical addiction. The nice part about this theory is that it implies that alcohol (a dopamine stimulant for humans) is physically addictive.

LSD, on the other hand, is not dopamine stimulating in any way, it just fucks with your sensory systems. There are some analogs to LSD that can really fuck you up though, such as LSA. Weed, I believe, is also not a dopamine stimulant.

Many of the more dopamine stimulating analogs of cocaine are also proven to be physically addictive, such as crack (which is not cocaine, but is an analog, a chemical that binds to the same receptors while triggering a slightly different response). The non dopamine stimulating analogs are although non-addictive (such as lidocaine, an agent that binds in to the same receptors but doesn't trigger the euphoric response of dopamine release and was formerly used as a painkiller).

I don't think one should make bold statements about the addictive nature of cocaine when there are no really conclusive studies (except for an american study on mice, which pointed to it being extremely addictive). Especially if said person hasn't studied biochemistry/pharmacology. Before making any bold statements I will wait until there is a decent study with results that can be reproduced.

I've looked at a number of articles which state that it is not physically addictive but I certainly don't understand the science behind it so I can't really comment there, although there does seem to be some vagueness surrounding it too given that making the disinction is not always easy. Going on pure statistics, the death rate particularly, coke seems a far more viable option than anything legally attainable, though I certainly would recommend it to anyone.
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10.01.2011 - 16:53
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Elite
Written by ForeverDarkWoods on 10.01.2011 at 16:31

The nice part about this theory is that it implies that alcohol (a dopamine stimulant for humans) is physically addictive.


Maybe I missing what you're trying to say, but are you actually saying you don't think alcohol is physically addictive?
If there is one drug that is physically addictive it's alcohol.
A hangover is a pure sign of its addictiveness cause that is caused by withdrawal amongst other things. A hangover is best battled by drinking alcohol again, which is a sign of physical addictiveness.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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10.01.2011 - 17:22
ForeverDarkWoods
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 10.01.2011 at 16:53

Written by ForeverDarkWoods on 10.01.2011 at 16:31

The nice part about this theory is that it implies that alcohol (a dopamine stimulant for humans) is physically addictive.


Maybe I missing what you're trying to say, but are you actually saying you don't think alcohol is physically addictive?
If there is one drug that is physically addictive it's alcohol.
A hangover is a pure sign of its addictiveness cause that is caused by withdrawal amongst other things. A hangover is best battled by drinking alcohol again, which is a sign of physical addictiveness.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it's nice for the theory to point this fact out, since most people don't even begin to think in such ways regarding alcohol.

Fact is:

Alcohol is most likely physically addictive.
Alcohol is by definition a narcotic, since it induces narcosis (you don't fall asleep when you pass out from being drunk as fuck, you go into narcosis). A narcotic is not the same as a mind-altering drug.

Most people see things like alcoholism as an individual problem, rather than realizing that the problem stems from the fact that alcohol is a physically addictive narcotic substance with dopamine stimulating properties.

And what is the best way to describe heroin really? It is a physically addictive narcotic substance with dopamine stimulating properties.

As for the coke discussions, when talking about the addictive nature of a chemical it is always imperative to check up your sources. It is like it always is. We got the government saying that everything will kill you except alcohol which can be consumed safely in moderate amounts if done responsibly (and this for some reason applies to no other drug), and then we have the stoners in complete denial. On top of this, the scientists (the ones that should actually be trusted) aren't even sure.

And yeah, the hobby stoners lie, deny studies and dismiss credible scientists as paid off by the government as soon as their drug of choice is criticized. But the government also lies, they fake studies (most notably a study on MDMA done in the US and a number of studies on weed) and expect to get away with it, even when the scientific community lashes out at their studies from all directions. But yeah, there are drugs that would seriously harm society if they became legal, and that nobody in their right mind should consume (meth comes to mind), and the problem is that the governments are wasting away their credibility on these subjects every time they lie about another drug.
----
Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction!
- George W. Bush, ex-president of the United States of America
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10.01.2011 - 17:28
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Elite
Written by ForeverDarkWoods on 10.01.2011 at 17:22


...



My apologies for misunderstanding you.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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10.01.2011 - 17:32
!J.O.O.E.!
Account deleted
And when scientists dare make statements which contradict the Government's insular views about drugs they get fired, like Professor David Nutt when he released statements saying that a number of illicit drugs were less harmful than that which is legally attainable. Apparently politicians know more about science than scientists.
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10.01.2011 - 22:02
Doc G.
Full Grown Hoser
Staff
Written by Guest on 10.01.2011 at 15:38

Written by Doc G. on 10.01.2011 at 12:40

Written by Guest on 08.01.2011 at 23:57

Stuff like ecstasy, cocaine, LSD etc. are far less destructive

I've never known anyone to O.D. from a cigarette.

I've never known anyone to OD from ecsasy or LSD either. It just doesn't happen, not in any practical way, not the way people think it does.

I haven't known any of the above to give you lung or throat cancer. Look up how many people die per year from that lot then compare it smoking.

I've known people to O.D. from both cocaine and ecstasy. The ecstasy isn't really common, but occasionally people get bad pills and get fucked up from it.
----
"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
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10.01.2011 - 22:39
!J.O.O.E.!
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Written by Doc G. on 10.01.2011 at 22:02

Written by Guest on 10.01.2011 at 15:38

Written by Doc G. on 10.01.2011 at 12:40

Written by Guest on 08.01.2011 at 23:57

Stuff like ecstasy, cocaine, LSD etc. are far less destructive

I've never known anyone to O.D. from a cigarette.

I've never known anyone to OD from ecsasy or LSD either. It just doesn't happen, not in any practical way, not the way people think it does.

I haven't known any of the above to give you lung or throat cancer. Look up how many people die per year from that lot then compare it smoking.

I've known people to O.D. from both cocaine and ecstasy. The ecstasy isn't really common, but occasionally people get bad pills and get fucked up from it.

Yeah cocaine does have more overdose cases than I realised. I think to get something bad in a pill you'd have to be pretty unlucky but to actually overdose on ecstacy is incredibly difficult. I believe the majority of deaths related to ecstasy are hyperhydration and dehydration which, not to sound harsh, is entirely down to the person's fault. To drown yourself in water or somehow dehydrate, probably due to drinking too much booze is still pretty rare. I don't think even 10 people a year die in the UK from taking pills or mdma, considering the millions of people that do.
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10.01.2011 - 22:46
Doc G.
Full Grown Hoser
Staff
Written by Guest on 10.01.2011 at 22:39

Yeah cocaine does have more overdose cases than I realised. I think to get something bad in a pill you'd have to be pretty unlucky but to actually overdose on ecstacy is incredibly difficult. I believe the majority of deaths related to ecstasy are hyperhydration and dehydration which, not to sound harsh, is entirely down to the person's fault. To drown yourself in water or somehow dehydrate, probably due to drinking too much booze is still pretty rare. I don't think even 10 people a year die in the UK from taking pills or mdma, considering the millions of people that do.

I'll admit I haven't known anyone to specifically overdose from ecstasy, but the damages it takes on your body are much faster than smoking, I know that for a fact. I've watched friends in high school do irreparable damage to their bodies pretty rapidly because of too much pill-popping.

If we're going to continue this discussion, I'd rather we do it over PM.
----
"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
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11.01.2011 - 01:11
Death To Posers
Hate Thy King
Written by Doc G. on 10.01.2011 at 22:46

Written by Guest on 10.01.2011 at 22:39

Yeah cocaine does have more overdose cases than I realised. I think to get something bad in a pill you'd have to be pretty unlucky but to actually overdose on ecstacy is incredibly difficult. I believe the majority of deaths related to ecstasy are hyperhydration and dehydration which, not to sound harsh, is entirely down to the person's fault. To drown yourself in water or somehow dehydrate, probably due to drinking too much booze is still pretty rare. I don't think even 10 people a year die in the UK from taking pills or mdma, considering the millions of people that do.

I'll admit I haven't known anyone to specifically overdose from ecstasy, but the damages it takes on your body are much faster than smoking, I know that for a fact. I've watched friends in high school do irreparable damage to their bodies pretty rapidly because of too much pill-popping.

If we're going to continue this discussion, I'd rather we do it over PM.


My friend from Highschool OD'd on X. Not a pretty sight to see your buddy puking foam and pissing himself while in a seizure. He was never the same again after that also, seemed to be more out of it and a little slower.
----
The word gen means "illusion" or "apparition." In India, a man who uses conjury is called a genjutsushi ["a master of illusion technique"]. Everything in this world is but a marionette show. Thus we use the word gen.
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26.03.2013 - 20:00
Jpageforever
I don't think that smoking is a terrible thing, as long as you do it in moderation when it comes to substances like nicotine. Also, I don't think that it's a great idea to smoke around babies or small children as their systems may not be as immune/strong. However, a little tobacco never hurt anybody I have tried a small cigar before, and it was awesome! It was black cherry flavored, I think. Either way, smoke as much tobacco as you want, and be careful with weed and nicotine
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26.03.2013 - 23:24
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight
I still hate smoking and hate smelling it...but what i hate even more are those campaigns to ban smoking by law...i really dont have to enter some filthy pub when i dont want to go in...and if 95% people inside smoke, why should i tell them to stop because mr. Ellrohir have just arrived and he hates the smoke?
----
My rest seems now calm and deep
Finally I got my dead man sleep

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27.03.2013 - 01:07
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Ellrohir on 26.03.2013 at 23:24

I still hate smoking and hate smelling it...but what i hate even more are those campaigns to ban smoking by law...i really dont have to enter some filthy pub when i dont want to go in...and if 95% people inside smoke, why should i tell them to stop because mr. Ellrohir have just arrived and he hates the smoke?


I agree
they say they save lifes, makes us live longer, but I dont buy that bulshit
I dont like this law, specely if its outside
I would not be happy if we could do in airplains and busses, but trains, there can be smoking and non smoking places,
pubs,r estauants, rich an d big can eb both small shood be legal to smoke + some 100% no, ppl can choose
law law. when old bill who catch is , then they shood not smoke to 100% and most I hate tabaco comercal ban in EU, we have crisies, if tabaco comercal can get money its good
F1 for example ...
ppl die from murder, drugs, alcohol overdose, slave laber even in Europe, suicide, ehalty ppl are rare nowadays so ...
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27.03.2013 - 14:43
Rhiannon
Account deleted
While I agree that banning smoking totally would be a bit extreme, I'm very happy that it's banned in bars and restaurants now (in Hungary). I never smoked in my life, and hated when I went to a party it was full of smoke, my eyes were hurting and my hair and clothes were smelling for hours after... And it's not the same as alcohol or drugs. Because when you drink or use drugs you only hurt yourself (assuming you don't drive drunk), but when you smoke, the people around you have to smell it whether they want it or not...
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27.03.2013 - 15:18
Jtbmetal123
I don't smoke but it believe it should be a choice and an option if you want to or not. But if your addicted try the patches. I am happy they took smoking out of restaurants. There's only thing about cigarettes I don't care for. People don't clean up after themselves. Everywhere I go there's a cigarette butt on the road, grass, ocean, lakes, pools, sometimes on my couch from my dad. Also, if you do smoke please go outside, my dad smokes inside and he makes the whole house reek of smoke. But they will slowly kill you and before anybody starts smoking they should know that.
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27.03.2013 - 15:44
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Elite
Written by Jtbmetal123 on 27.03.2013 at 15:18

But they will slowly kill you and before anybody starts smoking they should know that.


No, it "can" slowly kill you. Just like alcohol and such "can" slowly kill. It's not that it will always kill you.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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27.03.2013 - 15:51
Fritillaria
Account deleted
I sometimes smoke inside,but mostly when I go out I smoke, and I never throw the butts. Totally it's waste of money and health but still it feels soothing.
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27.03.2013 - 15:55
Vombatus
Potorro
Written by Guest on 27.03.2013 at 14:43

While I agree that banning smoking totally would be a bit extreme, I'm very happy that it's banned in bars and restaurants now (in Hungary). I never smoked in my life, and hated when I went to a party it was full of smoke, my eyes were hurting and my hair and clothes were smelling for hours after... And it's not the same as alcohol or drugs. Because when you drink or use drugs you only hurt yourself (assuming you don't drive drunk), but when you smoke, the people around you have to smell it whether they want it or not...


Pretty much sums up what I think about smoking...
I think all the debate shouldn't be focused on the individual aspect of being allowed or not to smoke, or how bad it is for health (like most people tend to do), but more on the effects around it.

And when they put the smoking ban in restaurants, bars, nightclubs and similar overhere I never understood all the fuss.
If anything, it's beneficial as people that don't stand the smoke might start going to such places (so more potential clients), whereas the only downside is that smokers have to step out the door (even if for some people it's a big deal to walk 3 meters away : )
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27.03.2013 - 17:48
Rhiannon
Account deleted
Written by Vombatus on 27.03.2013 at 15:55

Written by Guest on 27.03.2013 at 14:43

While I agree that banning smoking totally would be a bit extreme, I'm very happy that it's banned in bars and restaurants now (in Hungary). I never smoked in my life, and hated when I went to a party it was full of smoke, my eyes were hurting and my hair and clothes were smelling for hours after... And it's not the same as alcohol or drugs. Because when you drink or use drugs you only hurt yourself (assuming you don't drive drunk), but when you smoke, the people around you have to smell it whether they want it or not...


Pretty much sums up what I think about smoking...
I think all the debate shouldn't be focused on the individual aspect of being allowed or not to smoke, or how bad it is for health (like most people tend to do), but more on the effects around it.

And when they put the smoking ban in restaurants, bars, nightclubs and similar overhere I never understood all the fuss.
If anything, it's beneficial as people that don't stand the smoke might start going to such places (so more potential clients), whereas the only downside is that smokers have to step out the door (even if for some people it's a big deal to walk 3 meters away : )


true, but I guess in the winter it's not really pleasant to go outside... or when you work on the top of a building and you have to go down to smoke. but it's still better than to expose others to your smoke... and maybe it will encourage them to quit
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27.03.2013 - 21:15
Azarath
Free as a.. Fish
I've never smoked. It's a disgusting habit, and also happens to be very expensive and not terribly healthy. I'm all for banning it in restaurants and clubs.

A total ban is a bit extreme though. But tax the hell out of it.
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28.03.2013 - 11:01
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight
Written by Guest on 27.03.2013 at 14:43

I'm very happy that it's banned in bars and restaurants now (in Hungary).


and i totally disagree with same law which they want to establish here...because once again - i dont have to go inside when i simply dont want to...also there are plenty of non-smoking restaurants even without any ban...so its just about free choice which i would always value more...yes, my life will get easier, because sometimes my friends wants to go in pub where other ppl smoke and then i have to decide whether to refuse going with them or suffer from the smoke...but i would never prefer ban of the others for my own pleasure...
----
My rest seems now calm and deep
Finally I got my dead man sleep

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28.03.2013 - 12:10
Rhiannon
Account deleted
Written by Ellrohir on 28.03.2013 at 11:01

Written by Guest on 27.03.2013 at 14:43

I'm very happy that it's banned in bars and restaurants now (in Hungary).


and i totally disagree with same law which they want to establish here...because once again - i dont have to go inside when i simply dont want to...also there are plenty of non-smoking restaurants even without any ban...so its just about free choice which i would always value more...yes, my life will get easier, because sometimes my friends wants to go in pub where other ppl smoke and then i have to decide whether to refuse going with them or suffer from the smoke...but i would never prefer ban of the others for my own pleasure...


But they are already "forcing" their own pleasure on you...by smoking. And if 90% of the popular bars are smoking (like in Hungary before the ban), you can't really choose to go somewhere else, especially if your friends want to go there. Your choice is to stay home, never go anywhere, or inhale the smoke.
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