well,a thread for people who want to know some tips and tricks about singing(melodic,growls,screaming,etc.)and since i'm the starter,i'll start with a question:if you don't have a good voice is it worth it to try and train yourself to be a vocalist or you'll have to live with it?and if you're born with a range,like someone said on ms2,can you improve it or you're just doomed to have the same range forever?

If you like to sing and are willing to pay for lessons, go for it! Having a teacher show you good technique and help you learn how to use your voice well can improve it a lot. Many people are good even without lessons, but just as many people only find their voices when they have someone to help them.
Range is not a fixed thing. There is a certain limit that most people can't expand past (most trained singers have 3-4 octave ranges), but if your range is only 1 or 2 octaves, it's very possible to expand it. I know that one of the girls in my class, Ruth, went from about 1.5 octaves to almost 3, so it can really grow dramatically.

Awesome! The same question was running through my head. I have the shittiest voice known to man [lol barely a 1 note range]. As far as I know...I suck equally at genuinely singing, and screams/growls, etc... That's really good news!

Hey YAY !!! the singing thread , well guys I wanted to show you something that I subcribe and I always got one ..so I'll post the rest later but read this one ....Some stuff maybe I don't agree with it but they have important points ....

Big Lie #1 - People start out singing all wrong, so they must be taught
(or
re-taught) EVERYTHING, in order to sing "properly."

Truth - You MAY be doing SOME things wrong, but if you can speak, you
are NOT
doing everything wrong. When you speak, you are using the very same
tools you
need to sing--no more, no less.

Most singers' difficulties come from getting away from their natural
speaking
technique when they sing.

If you are less than satisfied with your singing, then it is very
likely you're
doing something less effectively than it can be done. But stop and
think a
moment. HOW do you get rid of the difficulty?

There are several possibilities: 1) You are just no good at singing
(many
people suspect this about themselves, but it's totally untrue as you
will learn);
2) You are not trying hard enough (many people assume this too, but
you will
find out that trying "harder" only ADDS to your difficulty); 3)
Singing is a
special skill that you have no useful knowledge about, so you must be
prepared to
spend lots of time and money learning this totally foreign skill.

All these possibilities are common thoughts, but all wrong. Here's the
possibility that you must accept to make satisfactory progress
improving your
singing:

4) You have been using your "singing tools" all your life, but you may
have been
"holding them wrong" while singing. It will be as easy as speaking,
once you
have someone show you how to simply hold the "tools" correctly.

You use the same exact body parts and capabilities to sing as you do
when you
speak! The problem often comes in when someone tries to tell us how to
sing and
they get us twisted up so that we STOP singing like we speak.

It's like you've been using a hammer to flatten bottle caps all your
life. Then
one day you need to drive some nails. You have doubts about trying it.
Then
someone walks up and sees you trying to drive nails. He tells you
"That's really
noisy. Here, hold it like this" and he turns it around so that you're
striking
the nails with the handle instead of the hammer's head.

It doesn't make so much noise now, so you think he may be right. You
keep trying
but you make very little progress.

Then a carpenter comes along and says "hey, buddy, you've got to hold
it by the
handle if you want to drive the nail." You turn it back around and
discover that
you can drive nails pretty fast now.

That's what singing should be like. When you learn how the voice was
designed to
work (and you will learn a lot about it, over these next 9 emails), you
should
make amazing progress and singing should get much easier at the same
time.

I've actually heard some stuff about this style of singing, I can't remember what it's called right now but I remember reading a discussion about it on a singing forum I belong to. It got some mixed reviews - some people really liked it and found that helped them a lot, while others hated it and found it very difficult. I guess it all depends on what kind of voice you have and how you learn.
I would tend to disagree with some of that. The dynamic breathing that you do when you're singing, by keeping your ribs expanded and moving your diaphragm, is not something that you just do intuitively, I don't think. Also, you don't use the "exact same tools" for singing as for speaking - a person's speaking register is a) much smaller, b) typically higher or lower and c) is rarely used at the same volume as your singing voice. I would agree that most people aren't doing everything wrong, and also that just trying really hard isn't going to get you very far. However, he sounds like he's trying to sell a program by telling you not to buy someone else's program, which is kind of funny.

Written by [user id=12217] on 29.06.2006 at 23:26

I know that one of the girls in my class, Ruth, went from about 1.5 octaves to almost 3, so it can really grow dramatically.

Similar thing happened to me. I sucked and then I joined a choir and a lot of people compliment my voice now and my vocal range is 3 octaves. It feels great. I love hitting notes I couldn't 3 years+ ago.

That's really cool. It's funny, when I first really started trying to sing, it was Nightwish songs, and it was so difficult for me. I'd never had any training, and even songs like Wish I Had An Angel seemed hard to me. My range grew just from practicing on my own, but when I started taking lessons it was so nice to hear how my voice changed. Notes got easier to reach, I had more control over my tone... I know I still have a long way to go, but even when something's hard for me vocally, it's really nice and helpful to think about how far I've come already.

quote:It's funny, when I first really started trying to sing, it was Nightwish songs, and it was so difficult for me. I'd never had any training, and even songs like Wish I Had An Angel seemed hard to me
oh,lol i remember back on the old forum with the "sing for us" thread you sucked so much at marco's part btw was it before or after the lessons?

Before! lol. In the sing for us thread that's up now, I posted some recordings I made this summer. Wish I could get some real recordings made, it would sound so much better with instruments.

Even when I don't suck (because I'm lead singer in a thrash metal band - formerly heavy metal), I'm always training and training, everywhere and everytime, most of the time at the school, I sing til' some of my friends got pissed off and hit me with a notebook from behind.

And all that practice has made me develop very much as a singer. When I started, I was 14 I guess, I thought I suck, but that was because my voice was changing back then. I remember I couldn't sing the trooper very well, but I could sing "2 minutes to midnight" in the best way possible. Then I started practicing and got better. And now I sing thrash metal, which I'm really good at, even when most of the vocals are screams, I've tried high pitched ones like Agent Steel and I'm very proud of my performance in those kind of songs .

i cant sing. if i had one wish, it would be to be given the ability to sing. i love to sing, but i never sing in front of people, coz i know how bad it sounds... quite sad actually...

Written by [user id=15104] on 24.07.2006 at 12:24

i cant sing. if i had one wish, it would be to be given the ability to sing. i love to sing, but i never sing in front of people, coz i know how bad it sounds... quite sad actually...

Heh, i would like to growl like Shagrath from DB but i can't...That's sad but i can't do anything to make this situation better.

sing is a very difficul thing, when you want to emulate someone voice, but when you find your tone is good, and playin guitar and singin' is very dificult, i use to play many songs of blind guardian in my old band and was very dificult.

Written by Vinnie R. on 28.07.2006 at 20:08

sing is a very difficul thing, when you want to emulate someone voice, but when you find your tone is good, and playin guitar and singin' is very dificult, i use to play many songs of blind guardian in my old band and was very dificult.

I agree- it's so tough for some of us to sing and play at the same time. In my case it's keyboards. I love to sing and I love to play but when I try to do them at the same time I just stop functioning!! I think I'll try to join TWO bands, sing for one and play keys for the others

I also agree about finding your "own" voice and tone. It's a bad habbit to try and sing like others since we all have different nasal anatamy as well as range, tone, etc. Using your own voice(s) is the best thing we can all do for ourselves

That's right, sometimes people want to sing like...but it's very difficult, you must find the genre to fit your voice, after you find the tone.

@lyrinantron: playin' in two bands would be great! i do that at this time, it's hard but intersting, you grow up.

Couple of tips for clean vocal singing.
The most important things in singing are right breathing and diaphragm. If you learn how to use these "instuments" the voice will get more powerfull. Then, it is nessesary to find the bounds in which it would be comfort to sing... Train your voice, find something unique in it.. And lots and lots of practice, of course

Hmm... I know all about breathing and the diaphragm, and I actually even have a nice range... I just have a crappy voice.

Written by W-Lash on 28.07.2006 at 10:17

Written by [user id=15104] on 24.07.2006 at 12:24

i cant sing. if i had one wish, it would be to be given the ability to sing. i love to sing, but i never sing in front of people, coz i know how bad it sounds... quite sad actually...

Heh, i would like to growl like Shagrath from DB but i can't...That's sad but i can't do anything to make this situation better.

Yes you can. You just have to work on it. The technique is the same as it is for singing cleanly - sit up straight and push air up with your stomach. You shape the aggressive sound with your mouth, not with your throat - that's how you'll injure your throat. Sing along to Dimmu a little bit at a time for a while, and gradually sing more and more. Usually throat pain is the only thing stopping people, but if you do it right it won't hurt.

there is lots of worng stuff said here... i don't wanna quarell, but I think doing things right is important in singing and screaming... and there are ways to do it better and if you're taught by the right person there is a lot of helpful stuff that you may learn... and I know this from my own expierience and from the expieriences of the people around me...

and yes, there are a lot of people that are doing it ALL WRONG! even if it sounds good, great, ot ok... it doesn't matter... and the problems will come when they need to do this in 3 consecutive night for more that an hour for example... and it will not work cause thier voice will get tired...

I sing in a Death Metal band... I have one problem, after every rehersal I've got a soar throat... Any tip on how I could get better so I don't get so soar? You can btw listen to one song here: http://www.imagination.info.se

Written by [user id=1455] on 10.08.2006 at 23:43

Hmm... I know all about breathing and the diaphragm, and I actually even have a nice range... I just have a crappy voice.

Written by W-Lash on 28.07.2006 at 10:17

Written by [user id=15104] on 24.07.2006 at 12:24

i cant sing. if i had one wish, it would be to be given the ability to sing. i love to sing, but i never sing in front of people, coz i know how bad it sounds... quite sad actually...

Heh, i would like to growl like Shagrath from DB but i can't...That's sad but i can't do anything to make this situation better.

Yes you can. You just have to work on it. The technique is the same as it is for singing cleanly - sit up straight and push air up with your stomach. You shape the aggressive sound with your mouth, not with your throat - that's how you'll injure your throat. Sing along to Dimmu a little bit at a time for a while, and gradually sing more and more. Usually throat pain is the only thing stopping people, but if you do it right it won't hurt.

Got any tips on how to do panther like vocals, like Devin Townshend from Strapping Young Lad, or Randy Blythe from Lamb Of God?

imo alexi laiho's voice is the hardest for me to replicate,because of the really high screaming

Written by Valentin B on 29.06.2006 at 23:11

well,a thread for people who want to know some tips and tricks about singing(melodic,growls,screaming,etc.)and since i'm the starter,i'll start with a question:if you don't have a good voice is it worth it to try and train yourself to be a vocalist or you'll have to live with it?and if you're born with a range,like someone said on ms2,can you improve it or you're just doomed to have the same range forever?

haha sounded kinda funny for me... "you just have to live with it" but no.. it's not like that... you CAN Improve your vocals technique.. Im the vocalist of my band.. and everyday i try to practice and i keep improving my stamina and also the strenght of my voice and screams... i sing both Clean and harsh vocals... you, at least for practicing should do the same... clean vocals helps your throat and increases your stamina.. then try harsh ones.. add me on msn or PM me if you want to I could tell you more.. anyways another recomendation for you.. Try to make a cover of Opeth's Master's apprentice... Mikael Akerfeldt from Opeth does both, Clean and gutural vocals in most of songs.. an opeth album is great material to practice EVEN if you dont like opeth.. (I like Opeth even when my thing is Black and Death Metal hehe)

P.S.: If i told you to PM me or add me is not cause i dont want to "teach" or give tips is just cause Im kinda hurry now and I got to leave so i dosnt have much time to write the whole post... sorry for that..

singin IS a limitated ability... but almost anyonew can try to do it.. but remember also that every singer has it's own style... so dont say things like " My voice dosnt sounds like Shagrath's" or so.. (besides Shagrath's gutural voice is pretty ease to sing, really..) just remember that you are a diferrent person and you have YOUR OWN vocal cords.. and you DONT HAVE to sound like someone in specific.. that's like the biggest mistake that most of singers commit..

I dont consider screaming and growling "singing", because if you are growling, then that sound directed off using your throaght and vocal chords with the use of mucus rather than using traditional means. But yes, anyone can train themselves to sing, dont let anyone tell you cant sing, as people who are also labelled tonedef, only 5% of those are REALLY tonedef. Singing comes with posture, training, breathe, and using your abdomen and chest.

I used to sing Basso for a latin choir I was able to hit like C or C#, smth like that.

I have recently started growling. I am not that good yet however, I am at about an ameture level. I need help improving my range and also my varience in style. When I go low, it's REALLY low, and I can't go any higher. When I try for higher pitch growels (Like george fisher at times or chuck schuldiner) all I get is something closer to a black metal voice, which while I think that's cool I want to learn to use a more high death voice. Help?

I am also learning how to sing normally, I've needed help with this a while, any tips people?

Written by Arian Totalis on 09.03.2007 at 03:57

I have recently started growling. I am not that good yet however, I am at about an ameture level. I need help improving my range and also my varience in style. When I go low, it's REALLY low, and I can't go any higher. When I try for higher pitch growels (Like george fisher at times or chuck schuldiner) all I get is something closer to a black metal voice, which while I think that's cool I want to learn to use a more high death voice. Help?

I am also learning how to sing normally, I've needed help with this a while, any tips people?

I used to be in a blackened death metal band and my lead singer/growler always used to gargle yogurt or milk, he said it built up the flem in his throat and when he had lots of flem he could control his voice alot better because he didnt have to worry about his throat getting dry resulting in him to cough....im not sure if this would work for everybody I guess its worth a try.

Well sometimes I feel that I'm not so much of a singer of course is my passion and my career but well I have difficulties with other styles of music that are not Classical or Opera , so I think a singer should be able to sing all styles and some are just so difficult for me like Gospel or Pop well so what do you think ??

Written by Arian Totalis on 09.03.2007 at 03:57

I have recently started growling. I am not that good yet however, I am at about an ameture level. I need help improving my range and also my varience in style. When I go low, it's REALLY low, and I can't go any higher. When I try for higher pitch growels (Like george fisher at times or chuck schuldiner) all I get is something closer to a black metal voice, which while I think that's cool I want to learn to use a more high death voice. Help?

I am also learning how to sing normally, I've needed help with this a while, any tips people?

dude, don't waste your time trying hard to do shuldiner's voice. it's near impossible(like on "spirit crusher") wtf man? it's just.. abnormally high. if you get a black metal voice, there's certainly no problem with that(i wish i could do at least one style of vocals, let alone black and death-growls)

right now i'm trying to rip off matt barlow, jon schaffer(dante's inferno, the coming curse) and rob halford(in lower songs like rapid fire or hellbent for leather, though if i wanna get depressed over my poor skills i'll just put exciter on ).. can you just try hard to mimic someone's voice(obviously seeing you're succeding, as i have got the low schaffer/barlow range) and finally get a better sing/growl voice(note i don't wanna growl)?

Written by Valentin B on 10.03.2007 at 18:50

Written by Arian Totalis on 09.03.2007 at 03:57

I have recently started growling. I am not that good yet however, I am at about an ameture level. I need help improving my range and also my varience in style. When I go low, it's REALLY low, and I can't go any higher. When I try for higher pitch growels (Like george fisher at times or chuck schuldiner) all I get is something closer to a black metal voice, which while I think that's cool I want to learn to use a more high death voice. Help?

I am also learning how to sing normally, I've needed help with this a while, any tips people?

dude, don't waste your time trying hard to do shuldiner's voice. it's near impossible(like on "spirit crusher") wtf man? it's just.. abnormally high. if you get a black metal voice, there's certainly no problem with that(i wish i could do at least one style of vocals, let alone black and death-growls)

right now i'm trying to rip off matt barlow, jon schaffer(dante's inferno, the coming curse) and rob halford(in lower songs like rapid fire or hellbent for leather, though if i wanna get depressed over my poor skills i'll just put exciter on ).. can you just try hard to mimic someone's voice(obviously seeing you're succeding, as i have got the low schaffer/barlow range) and finally get a better sing/growl voice(note i don't wanna growl)?

well, I don't think you understand my problem fully, It's that I don't have the control over my voice I would like to have. I can't raise my voice without going into a black metal sound, and I cant lower my voice without sounding like F***ing chris barnes. I have no midground, and I want to have something which is similar to brian fair, but I was using george fisher and chuck shchuldiner as examples of what I would like to be able to reach vocally. I think I am getting better at it. So I think the answer to your question is yes.

i dunno man. you could try to start as low as you want, and slowly try to get the voice higher. try listening to sepultura- refuse/resist, and mimic cavalera's voice. it's not very high, but it's not low, and it's not BM-like.

Maybe try this for about a week or so, and then if you just aren't progressing at all, maybe it's your voice, not how you use it. hell, or maybe listen to arch enemy and figure out how she's doing it
btw do you want -core vocals also?