What is your opinion guys? I think the best are Peavey Triple XXX or Engl Fireball, less Peavey 5150, Triple amp give the satysfying sound I need, it's best solution for full, metal sound. This amp fits well for my needs, it really fits for this music.

I tried one at sam ash once (music store) and i loved it, "if only had the money"...i currently own a line6 i like it but i think its time to change into quality sound i plan to get a peavey this year.

I think that a Roland Cube is a great amp for extreme metal, has a sorta arch enemyish sound to it and the eq allows you to have great effects. For bass I would say that a kustom amp is good, it has a deep, thick sound that empowers the music and suits metal the most IMO.

I know your not talkin about the roland micro cube..... fuck the sound, lets talk volume with that little 5" speaker lol if you want a REAL good metal sound, get the 6505... they dont make the 5150 anymore (van halen and his wonderousness felt he was too godly to let peavey use that name anymore... why? who knows...) but the 6505 and 6505+ are the same exact amp, just re-named, and your best bet... the XXX is no longer in production... they didnt sell enough to keep em on the lineup, and in my opinionthe 6505 has better sound... the 6505+ has 1 more preamp tube and a whole EQ dedicated just to the clean/rhythm section... whereas the 6505 standard only has 1 EQ for both channels... i have the 6505+... and i love my amp the XXX is cool, but the sound is a bit too bassy... not enough mids/highs for my taste.. with the 6505 you have to crank the presence up almost all the way to really get that cackling high sound, but from 8 - 10 there is a drastic change and its really well suited for a good cutting high section... im bout to switch my cab to the XXX cab, ive heard from scott danough PERSONALLY that the XXX cab is better than the 6505 cab... so im going to give it a whirl... but trust me, the 6505+ with proper setting will kick the shit out of the XXX... i researched for almost a year before finally buying my amp. you will not regret the decision

Yeah, I agree with about XXX is really bassy amp, but I bought it to play death metal, so it's what I wanted. Again agree, 5150 (and all 5150 like) is more versatile but, it cannot give me such meaty sound as XXX. Anyway these are comparable amps (nowadays price is almost the same used ones), and it's not a problem to exchange Peavey XXX to 5150.

Ampeg VH series
Engl Fireball/Powerball/SE/Savage 120
Peavey 5150/5150II/Ultra Plus/Triple XXX
Mesa Mark III/Mark IV/Rectifier Solo series


there are a bunch of other really good ones as well

as i said, they dont make the 5150 anymore... the name has been changed to the 6505, new visual scheme as well... you might be able to find one used, but i wouldnt trust a used tube amp... never know what people do with those things... would have to be a reputable source.

Written by [user id=24313] on 12.06.2007 at 19:34

as i said, they dont make the 5150 anymore... the name has been changed to the 6505, new visual scheme as well... you might be able to find one used, but i wouldnt trust a used tube amp... never know what people do with those things... would have to be a reputable source.

if that was directed at me, i'm *well* aware of the fact that the 5150's name was changed, but most people think of them as the 5150 anyway (i know i do). generally nothing wrong with buying used tube amps, but like you suggested, i try to stick with reputable sellers. with the exception of two, however, all of the tube amps i've owned, i got used. personally, i tend to think buying used is the way to go.

if you pay attention to the way sellers talk about their amps as well, you can usually figure out if they're likely to have abused the amp or not. like, if they give the impression that they don't know a lot about amps, i would be wary.

well yeah... i was directing more toward buying used from a guitar center... those you REALLY dont know what your buying... half the time, they plug it in, if it doesnt make any funny noises, and a guitar can play through it, its in "Excellent shape" and they stick it out on the floor with a price tag... god knows how long that item has been on the floor being mangled by the people shopping the store, not to mention the constant move items go through in a retail environment... i know when i was 18/19 and workin retail i could give a shit less about the products out on the floor... i doubt the flunkie gettin paid minimum wage workin the sales floor at guitar center is thinkin about it any more than i was back in them days..

as for buying direct from a person, yeah... you CAN come up on some good deals... but heres the thing... i paid for mine brand new, less than what most people are selling their used shit for... why? because at guitar center, they will mark anything down to what (they say) is their cost on the item... my amp was over $1400 new... i got it for $900... cab? $300... was like 549 new... people who sell used almost always sell their shit for a few notes less than the retail price... because they know people will use the internet to establish price verification for retail/new.... thats been my experience anyways... and if they do sell it for a note or 2 less used than what you could chew guitar center down for theirs, its either beat up... or extremely old... and why not just buy it new for the extra few bucks? maybe its just my personal preference with electronics, but im very leary of buying shit used... maybe a pedal, or a guitar if the situation promotes my interest... but amps? unless its a killer deal and ive tested it tried and true... and when i say killer deal, i mean something like half off the retail price or more... i wont fuck with it... just my personal preference..

used? amps maybe... cabs? forget it... a used cab is as valuable as the plywood its made with... (unless you know the person) speakers are far more likely to have taken a shit than the head... and the money you will spend replacing the speakers, you might as well have just bought a new cab (O_O) just my $0.02

Written by [user id=24313] on 12.06.2007 at 07:47

I know your not talkin about the roland micro cube..... fuck the sound, lets talk volume with that little 5" speaker lol if you want a REAL good metal sound, get the 6505... they dont make the 5150 anymore (van halen and his wonderousness felt he was too godly to let peavey use that name anymore... why? who knows...) but the 6505 and 6505+ are the same exact amp, just re-named, and your best bet... the XXX is no longer in production... they didnt sell enough to keep em on the lineup, and in my opinionthe 6505 has better sound... the 6505+ has 1 more preamp tube and a whole EQ dedicated just to the clean/rhythm section... whereas the 6505 standard only has 1 EQ for both channels... i have the 6505+... and i love my amp the XXX is cool, but the sound is a bit too bassy... not enough mids/highs for my taste.. with the 6505 you have to crank the presence up almost all the way to really get that cackling high sound, but from 8 - 10 there is a drastic change and its really well suited for a good cutting high section... im bout to switch my cab to the XXX cab, ive heard from scott danough PERSONALLY that the XXX cab is better than the 6505 cab... so im going to give it a whirl... but trust me, the 6505+ with proper setting will kick the shit out of the XXX... i researched for almost a year before finally buying my amp. you will not regret the decision

I dont specifically know, but my friend has a roland cube and it sounds amazing with soloing and leads. A shitty vox can give you volume but the sound sucks ass.

yeah but you need volume if you want to be heard.... i dont care what house system you plug into, a roland micro cube isnt going to be enough for you... you still need ambient volume, and good tube amps sound better with more volume... the tone actually changes. they are good little practice amps, but i wouldnt consider them an end-all.

Written by [user id=24313] on 13.06.2007 at 17:41

yeah but you need volume if you want to be heard.... i dont care what house system you plug into, a roland micro cube isnt going to be enough for you... you still need ambient volume, and good tube amps sound better with more volume... the tone actually changes. they are good little practice amps, but i wouldnt consider them an end-all.

true, he used that amp in a few situations where we couldnt get one with better volume and, it worked but needless to say it couldve been better.

they are cool little amps... i might get one just to practice with, they are cool little amps

Any Krank amp!!

kranks are overprices and underachieved... and thats not an opinion, thats a fact... they dont have the best distortion on the market by far, their worksmanship isnt the greatest, their speakers are crap, and they cost almost as much if not more than a mesa... the only good thing? color coding... you can get them in like 50 fuckin color combinations... lol stick with peavey, marshall, mesa, rivera, or if u want to go solid state... line 6 has some of the best solid state rigs for the buck.... other than that? ive also heard the crate 300w solid state head sounds good.... never heard it myself..

how about cabinet? I'm planning to buy ENGL 4x12 cabinet based on Celestion v30, I heard it's good choice, it gives satysfying sound. So far I have to play on some crappy cheap one..

never heard of engl, is it an abbreviation? (O_O) lol

Written by [user id=24313] on 19.06.2007 at 17:51

never heard of engl, is it an abbreviation? (O_O) lol

nope, it's a dude's last name.



most of their amps are awesome for metal. i'd expect that their cabs are good, too, but i don't like the way that they look. as long as they're built well, and have decent speakers (and i believe the Engl cabs all have Celestions in them), you should be good to go.

Im not a big fan of celestion speakers... some are good, but the 30s are too creamy for me, just my opinion though... as for the ENGL, havent heard of them much less heard them, but im always leary of amps that look flashy, as that one does... just seems to me when something gets flashy, the price becomes a reflection of looks rather than quality.... not saying that is the case with that amp, but take a look at line 6 spider amps... in my opinion, they look great... i love the chrome knobs, the curvaciousness of the chassis... and the LED action all over the place... but lets face it, unless your on a budget, its definitely not the best choice of amplification... tube amps are typically very plan in appearance... which is why all the chrome on that one has my wondering... a good example of over flashy amps is Krank.... i dont care what anyone says those things are junk lol they may be sturdy, but i couldnt get the sound i want out of one of those... maybe with a shitload of effects, but not through the amp itself... jmho. if i ever get the chance to try out one of those ENGL's ill give it a whirl... never seen one before though, so i doubt i ever will around here... are they strictly overseas?

The reason you may not know ENGL is simple - it's german mark mostly spread in europe, anyway it's worth to be familiar with these amps cause of really good sound (versatile middle and high tones). sound is rather from 5150 shelf. Yeah, prices of them are a bit high, but there is one cheap model ENGL Fireball, maybe only 60W but it's enough. Believe me, many musicians in europe make them prior in their arsenal.

see in the US, peavey, marshall, and mesa are probably the most saught after manufacturers (and not in that order) as i said, never even heard of ENGL, but do you guys have very many peaveys out there? or rather, even mesa?

mesa is OBSCENELY overpriced in europe, generally. as, or more expensive than Diezel amps. the main reason Engl amps are so expensive in the US is because they're made overseas, so the cost of importing them kicks up the price a bit. ever listen to Darkane? Primal Fear? Sinner? Nocturnal Rites? Dimmu Borgir? Jag Panzer? Darkane has pretty much always used the Savage 120, Primal Fear and Sinner have used Engl for a long time (sounds like the Savage 120 to me also), Nocturnal Rites uses the Savage 120 and SE, Dimmu Borgir has used Engls on the last three albums (Powerball on PEM and DCA, i think...the new album is Savage 120 and SE though), Jag Panzer used the Powerball on their last album. they're becoming better known in the US now (i personally know 4 or 5 people, plus myself, who own Engl amps, in Massachusetts alone), but they've been popular in europe for quite some time.

oh and btw, all of the Engls are tube amps, as well....the Savage 120 has 6 12AX7s and 2 6550s in it.

i didnt say they had solid states (O_O) or did i? i dunno... but yeah, i dont know about most of the bands you named, im not big into death or black metal, but i do know who dimmu is, and arent they from that side of the world?

and what part of the USA do you live in? yeah mesas are really really REALLY expensive, but there is a reason... they are high quality... but they also make up for it with the best customer service in the industry, along with special "owner only" events, discounts, and other fun shit lol from what i hear, they be having get-togethers and conventions specifically inviting, and ONLY allowing mesa owners to participate in... a friend of mine said he got a phonecall from mesa asking what he thought of the product when he got it, and to congratulate him on his purchase... out here, only select stores are allowed to carry them... guitar centers are one, but they arent allowed to budge on the price at all... and thats mesas requirement to them... but all that being considered, they have the best amps and the BEST cabs on the market for metal... and the heads only cost about 600 more than my peavey head cost (retail..) i only paid $800 for my head, which retail goes for about $1200 lol i dont know about engl, but mesa has a serious reputation for being what they are... everyone who has one loves it, and everyone who doesnt have one... wishes they did... its not like marshall, "the name makes the product"... with mesa, the product made the name.

as i said, i definitely would like to hear an engl amp, but i doubt i ever will... before here, i never even heard of it... so chances are? unless someone is really into black metal and orders there shit from out there, ill probably never get the chance to shred out of one.

i'm in Boston, MA....same shit with mesa here. that is, in terms of their price fixing and store limiting and such. personally i prefer the Mark series mesas to the rectifier series, although the rectos seem to be more popular. i wouldn't say they're the "BEST" but i suppose they're up there. honestly, it all comes down to personal taste, and that's why i have an Engl instead of a Mesa (although i wouldn't mind having a MkIII or MkIV around).

I bought my Savage 120 used for $1500....cost me less than most mesas do, and i didn't have to order it internationally, either. they do have some US dealers, though. i don't know where you are in the US, but you should check out this place, especially if it's anywhere close to you: www.rocksolidamps.com

here's a recording i did with mine, btw: http://www.netmusicians.org/files/98-HCMD102706Savage120.mp3

nice leads... pretty original, and quite intense... sounds like you did a direct preamp out recording, right? doesnt have that mic'd sound to it... for a preamp recording it sounds pretty good, although, my 6505+ cranks out dessimating gain in comparison... wish i had a way to show you what im talkin about... but no recording hardware/software. the one thing i see about engl, as listed in their site, and that site... their amps are built for versatility among the genres... rock, jazz, blues, metal, etc.. seems to me as though that may be the fault for having an amp not quite as high in gain as amps like mesa and peavey... not that its a bad thing, but for instance... one of the reasons i got my 6505+ is that it was primarily designed for metal... in fact, its geared so much toward higher gain levels, you cant even get a truly decent clean out of it lol i think thats where mesa excels... their amps (because of the technology they use) are capable of pounding brutal distortion out of the same amp as a chimey clean.... my peavey is more geared toward distortion, which is why im invested into pedals... between the acoustic simulator, the reverb, the delay, and the chorus... i can get a nice mellow tone that sounds pretty nice... for metal? i need nothing... i add the metal zone and O/D for simple reasons.... versatility... if i want 2 sounds at the same time that involve high gain characteristics that are footswitchable instantaneously, i need a pedal... or 2 amps... and god knows, a $100 pedal is cheaper than a $1000 head lol not to mention the cab itself... anyways... en engl sounds good... but ill stick with my peavey, and will keep truckin for my mesa. one day.... one day... lol


one thing you can explain to me, i forgot completely about the "splawn" amp.... maybe you can explain why they adopted the marshall motif? i never got that...

it actually is a mic'd recording....the amp wasn't particularly loud though. doesn't sound "direct" to me though, dunno what you're talking about...also it's a very clear-sounding amp, that was being played through a very clear-sounding speaker, and i was playing with a very clear-sounding guitar, and i don't have the gain very high (it's at about 4). it has more gain than anyone should ever need. keep in mind that i'm quite familiar with the Peavey and Mesa stuff....i've been playing for about 7 years and have owned 5 or 6 different amp heads, and played through more than i can even remember (including Mesa, Peavey, Ampeg, Engl, Marshall, Carvin, Diezel, Koch, Krank (eugh...never again), Bogner, Soldano, Genz-Benz, Red Bear, Splawn, Voodoo, Randall, and others)

the Splawn stuff is basically marshall circuits, modified, and then stuck in a marshall-style head shell. they're targeting the same people who would be buying marshalls and having them modified, or people who would just buy them already modded.

what i meant with the mic'd part of it was, that it didnt have the ambience sound most mic'd recordings ive heard seem to have... maybe it was just shitty mic's, but yours sounded really firm and had a lot of clarity... a characteristic of a remote processing unit having a direct signal passed through it... nothing bad... just didnt sound mic'd.

i can agree with you and the krank amp... ive heard they are real garbage...

played most of what you have listed, with the exception of diezel, koch, ampeg, red bear, and bogner and engl... i like the tone of a marshall, but its overpriced and doesnt have enough gain for my taste... didnt like genz, but i like the setup of their 2x2 cab... ported and whatnot... randall? eh... not so much... soldano? same thing... mesa was probably my favorite, next to my amp...

the one thing some people make the mistake of, is assuming a person vouches for a product because they own it... you know... kinda like when you were a kid, you wanted something, but mom got you something else, and regardless of how you really felt about it, to the world, you thought it was the best... thats not how it is (at least with me) and my amp... pure and simple, i bought it because (aside from mesa) i felt it was the best... other amps in my price range were the JCM2000, XXX, B-52 (crap), valveking, krankenstein, and the JSX... could have done a mesa combo, but i wanted the half stack.... saw no point in going from one combo to another, regardless of quality differences... i wanted something with power... and believe me i got it lol so yeah... i firmly believe out of the choices i had, the amp i got was the best for what i wanted it to do... do i know what the engl is capable of? no... but as i said, considering its designed to be a good match for everything from blues to jazz... hard rock to metal... i wouldnt assume it to have the same gain characteristics i need for the music i play... its all about flavor, and who likes it... you like a more mild flavor... i like it sizzlin hot... ya know what i mean? all about taste... hell, even my amp doesnt do what i want it to do completely... which is why im considering having it hotrodded by king amplification out here... they do some pretty decent work from what i hear... they even build their own amps from the ground up. so once i get it hotrodded, ill try to get a sound sample up.

yeah, i have a decent mic, know how to place it, and like i said, was using a guitar, amp, speaker, and mic that are all very clear and punchy sounding.

"more mild flavor"? i dunno about that....i use a good bit of gain, but as it happens, both of my amps are capable of completely ridiculous distortion, beyond what anyone should need for *any* style of music, so i keep it to a reasonable level. reason being? more clarity, more punch, and less likely to get lost in the mix. plus, when you record, you typically want to use a bit less gain than you might if you were playing alone or live with a band.

the real key is this....voicing. the particular Engl model i have happens to be perfect for power metal, which is generally my preferred genre to play, but they have other models, like the Powerball, which is a sick death metal amp. not that the Savage 120 can't do death metal, but if i were going to pick one of their amps for that, it'd be the Powerball or Fireball, over the Savage 120, probably. my other amp, an Ampeg VH-150 (which is solid state, btw), is essentially the same as one of the main amps used by many US-based death metal bands (Suffocation, Dying Fetus, a number of others), and does that sort of thing quite well. of course, it can also do power metal type stuff, but because of the voicing it has, it's extremely well-suited to death metal riffing.....like this: http://www.mp3lizard.com/download.cfm?id=17798

btw, i like the 5150/6505 series as well (although i kinda prefer the original to the II/+), but i also find them to sometimes be a bit noisy and "messy" sounding....plus, it seems like everyone has them.

i first heard of Engl amps in about 2001 or 2002, and i'd wanted to try one for a while. the first time i got to play one was a Powerball in late 2003...not bad, but i wasn't totally blown away by it. but last summer, when my band opened for Cryptopsy, i had to fly down for the show and couldn't take an amp with me. a guy from another message board offered to let me borrow an amp for the show, since he was gonna be there anyway...he had a whole bunch of options for me to try out (a peavey, 3 mesas, a marshall, a carvin, an engl, and i think one other). i ended up picking the engl (Savage 120) because it sounded really intensely brutal and clear and tight at the same time....pretty much exactly what i was looking for in an amp. also, the cabinet i borrowed was a Mesa Recto Standard 4x12, with two Celestion Vintage 30s and two Celestion Classic Lead 80s. i decided i *had* to have one eventually. i bought a 4x12 (i had a 2x12 already....Genz-Benz G-Flex), replaced the speakers with two modified V30s and two CL80s, and then got a Savage 120 a few months later....still sounds absolutely fucking amazing for what i want in an amp. i had the opportunity to try it side-by-side with a stock 5150, a voodoo-modded 5150, a randall V2, an Engl Powerball, an Engl Invader, a Bogner Überschall, a couple Splawns, and a few other amps, and my Engl was still my favorite out of all of them....my Ampeg was there as well, and held its own quite well....not bad for an amp i paid $400 for!

as for the original over the II/+.... why would you say that? they are identically built, but the + has a completely separate EQ dedicated to the lead channel, and it has an extra preamp tube dedicated to just the clean/rhythm channel. its the same as the orignal, with more option/versatility.

i dont know about voodoo modification, and as i said i have never tried an ENGL, but id be willing to give it a shot... however, from what you are stating to me, its probably about as far out of my price range as a mesa is... so... nah, not really all too interested lol if i had that kind of money, id get a mesa... great customer service, and a well built amp... dont need to get too technical with it, the mesa has all i need and then some... the only thing i can ask for more out of my peavey is a good clean channel... but no biggie, ill just invest in a small amp good for cleans, until i can get my dream rig.

as for the 6505 sounding "messy"? might have had an issue with the one you were playing... mine is relatively clear and depending on how i set up the EQ, its VERY hairy... noise level is quite minimal considering... unless i run my o/d through it on high settings, then things get a bit...... loopy..... but other than that? ive had no qualms with it... like i said, ill try to get a sound file up when i get it back from the amp guy... he also has to adjust the bias, ive heard from people, peavey, and now from him... that these things come from the factory biased so cold its rediculous... and since i put groove tubes in it, im sure i have a plethora of sound waiting to come out of my amp. we will see...

the II/+ has a little bit less gain, and is brighter than the original, in addition to the other more obvious differences.