Written by Vombatus on 12.05.2011 at 11:57

Written by X-Ray Rod on 12.05.2011 at 11:17

Well, if you can't understand the lyrics due to let's say growls, then it should be fine right?
I honestly don't give a damn about the lyrics even if I understand them. No offense buddy but if there is a band that sounds friggin good and you shun them just because of their lyrics... It's quite shallow.

Totally agree with this.
I mean, do you listen metal for the music or to hear lyrics about something you like ?

Yeah I mean.. If I want some good lines of text I will probably.. you know... READ A BOOK

Redaing many posts seems members simply forgot Christian metal is just a mbands who belive and use christian lyrics,

Written by Vombatus on 12.05.2011 at 11:57

Written by X-Ray Rod on 12.05.2011 at 11:17

Well, if you can't understand the lyrics due to let's say growls, then it should be fine right?
I honestly don't give a damn about the lyrics even if I understand them. No offense buddy but if there is a band that sounds friggin good and you shun them just because of their lyrics... It's quite shallow.

Totally agree with this.
I mean, do you listen metal for the music or to hear lyrics about something you like ?
I don't get why someone wouldn't like a band just coz the lyric theme doesn't pleases them. It's a extremely narrow-minded vision. It's as stupid as a Christian saying he won't listen BM coz he doesn't like the lyrics even if he enjoys the music.
It's also pretty ridiculous to see people saying that Christiany is incompatible with metal but then think other religions are acceptable with metal. Why would Satanism or Paganism be ok and not Christianity ? All of them have, in a relative way, the same basic concepts.

No, they're not the same. Pagans do not ask me to loathe people due to sexuality, having another religion etc etc. It's not remotely the same. I do not pay much attention to lyrics, however you're saying you'll listen to anything anyone says, including racism. etc. I will pass even if you attempt to falsely correlate rascism and power metal lyrics about dragons. lol

Sorry but when I said that all religions have "the same basic concepts" I was refering to the "theism fact" of believing in a God/Gods, each separately share a specific view, proper rituals, etc... It had nothing to do with the similarity between the doctrines (I know they are very different^^), should have explained myself better

And yes, I'll listen to anything anyone says IF the music is nice. I don't care listening to NSBM (I admit they have some great bands) or Vegetarian Grindcore (lol). Oh and I won't try to correlate racism and power metal lyrics about dragons

Written by Vombatus on 12.05.2011 at 21:07

Sorry but when I said that all religions have "the same basic concepts" I was refering to the "theism fact" of believing in a God/Gods, each separately share a specific view, proper rituals, etc... It had nothing to do with the similarity between the doctrines (I know they are very different^^), should have explained myself better

And yes, I'll listen to anything anyone says IF the music is nice. I don't care listening to NSBM (I admit they have some great bands) or Vegetarian Grindcore (lol). Oh and I won't try to correlate racism and power metal lyrics about dragons

Alright, I thought you meant they've the same tenets, thanks for clearing that up. lol

Heh, I didn't know extol had christian themes. Good band, haven't heard the rest.
I generally don't care about the lyrical themes as long as the music appeals to me.
I never really thought of this till now, but say I do like a NSBM band, but I don't support their ideals. But does you or I listening to their music in turn support their ideals as well ?
So would that stop you listening to the band?
The same for any of these segregations based on lyrical content and themes

I mean I might just listen to the music and not even bother about the lyrical content, and say maybe not even know that they are NS or christian or anti religious. But say I pass on their music to a friend and say he gets influenced by say NS ideals etc. That would suck.
Anyway I know its off topic, but just a passing thought.

No it doesnt, especially considering many of us have stated here lyrics are not something we pay much attention to. However knowing before hand a band has certain views probably does change the way we see them at least a little.

Written by Yasmine on 12.05.2011 at 09:20

Well most fundementalist will hate metal, from the look of the forum it seems most fans are in fact irreligious. However you've to remember everything from holidays to this to rituals, Christianity will try to assimulate it in order to gain power.

So you are claiming that Christian Metal bands are only doing this for power,eh? Seeing how I am in a Christian Metal band, I was wondering if you could tell me how what we are doing is about gaining power.

Written by Dane Train on 13.05.2011 at 15:26

Written by Yasmine on 12.05.2011 at 09:20

Well most fundementalist will hate metal, from the look of the forum it seems most fans are in fact irreligious. However you've to remember everything from holidays to this to rituals, Christianity will try to assimulate it in order to gain power.

So you are claiming that Christian Metal bands are only doing this for power,eh? Seeing how I am in a Christian Metal band, I was wondering if you could tell me how what we are doing is about gaining power.

Because it attempts to inject theology into something where it clearly had no place. Telling me this....when say....Christians mass murdered native americans and tried to teach them Christianity were they attempting to destroy the godless heathens or just doing them a favor? Same with pagan holiday, destroy paganism or innocent fun? Christian metal, usurping the music from the secular means from which it existed for so long, or just subpar metal?

The list goes on, assimulation is very common in the history of said religion, and no none of that is meant to be offensive, or personal, I just want to see how you reconsile these things.

I don't follow your way of thinking. Don't understand what's so "out of place" about theology (Any theology, not just christianity) and why you can't just accept that maybe... Some bands like to just sing about some of their passions without anything like gaining power. Not every religious person is an asshole you know. Some of the most beautiful persons I've met in my life are deeply religious and they don't force anything down your throat. This bands aren't forcing anything down your throat, they just like to express their emotions about the subject.

I fail to see the problem unless the listener is friggin paranoic about people changing his/her mid

Written by Yasmine on 13.05.2011 at 19:04

Christians mass murdered native americans and tried to teach them Christianity were they attempting to destroy the godless heathens or just doing them a favor?

Those who murdered native Americans would have murdered them even if they had not been Christian but for instance followers of Hinduism or Norse paganism... The violence is a thing which resides in a corrupted spirit and does not correlate to religion... (of course if one is capable of understanding what a spirit is at all)...

Seems that now Christianity's time is over and now we have sexual (and other) minorities marching and shoving their "beliefs" and lifestyle down peoples' throats... now it is a horrid sin to be Christian (or Muslim or whatever religion) and to even attempt to defend some basic ideals and virtues of life...
Christians loathe people of other religions? Christianity is not about loathing others... it is about letting everyone know about the love the Father feels for everyone... Christianity does not loathe other religions... one of my dearest brothers who is close to me is a devout Muslim and I love and respect him and vice versa...

What makes me sad is when I see people attacking and bashing those whose views do not coincide with their preferences... such as sexual minorities (YES, they do this) demanding everyone to adapt to their lifestyle which is becoming more and more prominent until the level of forbidding the children's schoolbooks which are politically incorrect because they do not feature stories about gay couples... that was just an example... sometimes I feel that the world is slowly falling to pieces...

I know I am writing this to a wall... literally... just a few happy thoughts, that's all...

God bless everyone!

Seems that now Christianity's time is over and now we have sexual (and other) minorities marching and shoving their "beliefs" and lifestyle down peoples' throats...

Exellent example of bigtory from Christians, you even made up terms like "Lifestyle" to imply all gays are the same.

2, no natives were heathens and killable, if they'd have been, somehow close in beliefs to Christians or all just willingly converted theyd have been spared those smallpox blankets, and yes they do, you show me where in your bible a Hindu makes it to Heaven. They tried extremely hard to convert the natives, and then move us etc before mass murdering our ancestors. So don't feed me that BS from half way around the world.

No people do not bash Christianity because of their sexuality, that too is BS, you're simply trying to play the victim when you know you're the bully. They speak out against those who discriminate against them. Once again there's no lifestyle, that's propaganda garbage. A wall? As in "Yasmine knows better and won't listen to me whine"?

Is it bad to be a Christian? You tell me, crusades, mass genocide of various native people, inquistitions, witch trials, slavery. If you believe these are moral, yes it's okay. I believe they're bad and therefore you wanting to be part of that cult makes you immoral, but we're a bit off topic now. lol
Edit: I forget the 30 years war, and abortion clinic bombings, and Oklahoma city bombing.

I did like Human Sacrifice by Vengeance (or Vengeance Rising...later on) but I think as a novelty. I do pay attention to lyrics and I'm just not into the message. I don't want to go into another one of my long "when I was a kid" things...but I'll just say in my first 17 years I found Christianity and I don't mix well, so I haven't paid any major attention to Christian metal. As a matter of fact, besides stuff like Stryper and Bloodgood (neither of which I liked) the only other stuff I remember is Vengeance (Rising) and Deliverance. I remember a friend of mine having cassettes by those bands and I was surprised that Christians would play aggressive music.

Written by Yasmine on 13.05.2011 at 23:30

you wanting to be part of that cult makes you immoral

Edit: I forget the 30 years war, and abortion clinic bombings, and Oklahoma city bombing.

I like what you wrote... it made me smile, really...

I think there are other things that make a person immoral, being a Christian is not one of those...
In fact, I'd say being a Christian can make it somewhat easier to evaluate what is right and wrong inside yourself and it can show some light in darkness... it may give motivation to love people around you and motivate you to treat others in a good manner... it can motivate a person to at least try to be over all the problems and all the things that hurt and are going wrong and thus move closer to the ideal... this is what being a Christian can do... and this is why it is so essential for instance for me, my bro, our sister... But I know wonderful people who also move towards this light, who are full of love and understanding and they are not Christian... without knowing, they do what a Christian should do... same goes for my good friends who are Muslims... they are wonderful persons... I know everyone has their problems and pain and fears and sins but the love that Father feels eventually helps everyone to get over this... to let the love in is, however, everyone's personal decision...
Thus, I admit, I am myself a sinful person as are all on this Earth... but these are my own bad decisions and my mistakes that cause that... not the fact I am Christian, in fact, faith helps evaluate and see my mistakes more objectively... and at least give some hope that there is a possibility to avoid them...

Once more... I never said I hate anyone plus I do condemn if anyone hurts another... this usually happens because the one who is aggressive is filled with too much pain and darkness and problems that there is no room for light or love at all. In such cases others may try to help but it's up to every person to clean himself. It just is sometimes sad and annoying when people shoot at you just like that. But this doesn't mean one needs to shoot back the same way.

Over and out

PS. Apologies for the bombings... nothing personal, just business...
*******

More ontopic... I once liked a group called Holy Blood... they are from Ukraine and their music was rather enjoyable although rough, of not the best quality and a bit unrefined... but their songs had some bright moments... and I remember I liked them because they had managed to bring together the message that sounded good to me and also the sound that sounded interesting to me...

Horde is just a hilarious experiment...

Written by Ernis on 14.05.2011 at 01:05

Written by Yasmine on 13.05.2011 at 23:30

you wanting to be part of that cult makes you immoral

Edit: I forget the 30 years war, and abortion clinic bombings, and Oklahoma city bombing.

I like what you wrote... it made me smile, really...

I think there are other things that make a person immoral, being a Christian is not one of those...
In fact, I'd say being a Christian can make it somewhat easier to evaluate what is right and wrong inside yourself and it can show some light in darkness... it may give motivation to love people around you and motivate you to treat others in a good manner... it can motivate a person to at least try to be over all the problems and all the things that hurt and are going wrong and thus move closer to the ideal... this is what being a Christian can do... and this is why it is so essential for instance for me, my bro, our sister... But I know wonderful people who also move towards this light, who are full of love and understanding and they are not Christian... without knowing, they do what a Christian should do... same goes for my good friends who are Muslims... they are wonderful persons... I know everyone has their problems and pain and fears and sins but the love that Father feels eventually helps everyone to get over this... to let the love in is, however, everyone's personal decision...
Thus, I admit, I am myself a sinful person as are all on this Earth... but these are my own bad decisions and my mistakes that cause that... not the fact I am Christian, in fact, faith helps evaluate and see my mistakes more objectively... and at least give some hope that there is a possibility to avoid them...

Once more... I never said I hate anyone plus I do condemn if anyone hurts another... this usually happens because the one who is aggressive is filled with too much pain and darkness and problems that there is no room for light or love at all. In such cases others may try to help but it's up to every person to clean himself. It just is sometimes sad and annoying when people shoot at you just like that. But this doesn't mean one needs to shoot back the same way.

Over and out

PS. Apologies for the bombings... nothing personal, just business...
*******

More ontopic... I once liked a group called Holy Blood... they are from Ukraine and their music was rather enjoyable although rough, of not the best quality and a bit unrefined... but their songs had some bright moments... and I remember I liked them because they had managed to bring together the message that sounded good to me and also the sound that sounded interesting to me...

Horde is just a hilarious experiment...

Being a christian just assign you ancient cultural morals that are no longer acceptable in my society. (Thank you Thomas Jefferson). If the light is bigtry, kindly leave me and my metal in the dark. lol No you never said "I hate someone", but you did attempt to champion bigotry against certain "sexualities" lol. You can say "I don't like it when others hurt people", just as Ted Bundy claimed he didn't do it. You're basically saying...well I don't like hurting people, but i like belonging to a group of people that does it anyway!!!! And no faith does not make anyone objective, quite the opposite.

I do wonder if most people here actually know all these bands and know many outside this list, I certainly don't seek out bands with Christian themes.

I could go and punch some homosexual in the face because "You belong to this group of fags who organise their freaky parades in downtown!" I won't do that...
I could punch some German in the face and scream "You are German, look what you did during WW2"
Or I could hate Russians because of "What you did during WW2"...
Or I could hate every single Albanian because some Albanian muslims burned churches in Serbia or I could hate every single Serbian for having killed innocent Albanian muslims in the war...
I won't do that... because just like a Jew normally has never had anything against Palestinians and vice versa, can no man have the right to paint all members of a group with a broad brush...

Looks like Christianity was invented for discriminating LGBT people only...

"I could go and punch some homosexual in the face because "You belong to this group of fags who organise their freaky parades in downtown!" I won't do that..." Explain this as it relates to the rest of the immoral posts.

Being German that would be a false correlation, however if the person agreed with NAZI party policy most of us would oppose his views, works the same way with Christianity, I oppose your religious morals because they're the same morals the crusaders, inquistioners etc etc had. What you're saying is that it's immoral to kill someone, but moral to belong to a group that's supported murder for 1800 years. Christianity was created to exclude people outside of the founders cultural, now excludes people outside it's tenets sometimes with leathality, and you can hear this theme in metal too.

I doubt most Christians "have the same morals the crusders, inquisitioners, etc had". I think crusade was shit, I also think inquisition was another bit pile of shit and I don't support mudering/discriminate people belonging to other groups.

You have to understand that all Christians don't think/act alike and if you try to put us all under the same banner, it will be easy to critisize.
Yes, there are intolerant Christians that exclude people outside it's tenets and the boring extremist blablabla that Christian bashers always bring up.
But you also have Christians that think all the murdering in the name of God is bullshit, listen with no moral dilemma the most blasphemous BM bands and have gay friends, and it doesn't make us less christian.

Please don't put us all on the same boat, Christianity isn't unidimentional.

Written by Vombatus on 14.05.2011 at 03:08

I doubt most Christians "have the same morals the crusders, inquisitioners, etc had". I think crusade was shit, I also think inquisition was another bit pile of shit and I don't support mudering/discriminate people belonging to other groups.

You have to understand that all Christians don't think/act alike and if you try to put us all under the same banner, it will be easy to critisize.
Yes, there are intolerant Christians that exclude people outside it's tenets and the boring extremist blablabla that Christian bashers always bring up.
But you also have Christians that think all the murdering in the name of God is bullshit, listen with no moral dilemma the most blasphemous BM bands and have gay friends, and it doesn't make us less christian.

Please don't put us all on the same boat, Christianity isn't unidimentional.

Well I don't want any trouble, but imo same divine command, same banner, each and all. I will put it like tihs, it's like saying well gee golly racism is okay as long as I leave the killing to my pals.

And if you've to say "BUT I GOTS ME SOME GAY FRRRRRIENDS" you know you've got some serious problem with hate. Though on topic I don't think I've heard a Christian metal band bash homosexuals........yet. lol

It was pretty predictable you were going to bring up that "but i gots me some gay friends". I thought it could make people understand that some of us are tolerant. Seems I was wrong since every damn argument is turned against using the opposite.
Just to assure you, I don't have problems with hate (yes, you can now think I'm lying and make incorrect assumptions).

Live and let live.

But sterile debates quickly end up getting boring, so on topic I just checked Holy Blood and it's good stuff indeed. First example of christian metal with folk/viking touch... usually it's always around metalcore or more accesible genre. Thanks for mentioning them.

I won't argue about lyrics and I know you don't mind.

From a proud former christian I would say Paramaecium, Lengsel (their last album is just awesome), Extol and Virgin Black, I really love these bands, Zao do a pretty good job too. Saviour Machine have some good stuff but the rest of the bands are pure shit, christians listen to them 'cause they have too.

Written by Vombatus on 14.05.2011 at 03:52

It was pretty predictable you were going to bring up that "but i gots me some gay friends". I thought it could make people understand that some of us are tolerant. Seems I was wrong since every damn argument is turned against using the opposite.
Just to assure you, I don't have problems with hate (yes, you can now think I'm lying and make incorrect assumptions).

Live and let live.

But sterile debates quickly end up getting boring, so on topic I just checked Holy Blood and it's good stuff indeed. First example of christian metal with folk/viking touch... usually it's always around metalcore or more accesible genre. Thanks for mentioning them.

If you knew that it's only because you know it's soooooo cliche. lol But lets just assume you're not hateful, my final question for you then would be this......why if you do not agree with the "morals" within christianity, homosexuality only being one, do you want to be Christian? This doesn't make sense to me.

On topic, I'm going to look into the bands mentioned in the last 3 posts, I'm curious. If there's any band mentioned I really dislike it's Living Sacrifice, nothing to do with lyrics, just don't dig the music.

Oh, I almost forget them, Crimson Moonlight, they are really good.

Written by Sombre on 14.05.2011 at 04:47

I won't argue about lyrics and I know you don't mind.

From a proud former christian I would say Paramaecium, Lengsel (their last album is just awesome), Extol and Virgin Black, I really love these bands, Zao do a pretty good job too. Saviour Machine have some good stuff but the rest of the bands are pure shit, christians listen to them 'cause they have too.

Good call on Virgin Black. I know some people that find them boring but fuck that. The use of orchestra in the last two albums is astonishing. Same goes to London's beautiful operatic vocals and Escarbe's guitar style... There's something very special about the way she does her solos. Sounding like a chello instead of a guitar.

Virgin Black is a lot more discret on the christianity opart of the lyrics though.

Now that I think about this... didn't Nightwish use some Christian symbolism as well... for instance taking the motive of passion play and applying it in their previous album.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 14.05.2011 at 11:03

Written by Sombre on 14.05.2011 at 04:47

I won't argue about lyrics and I know you don't mind.

From a proud former christian I would say Paramaecium, Lengsel (their last album is just awesome), Extol and Virgin Black, I really love these bands, Zao do a pretty good job too. Saviour Machine have some good stuff but the rest of the bands are pure shit, christians listen to them 'cause they have too.

Good call on Virgin Black. I know some people that find them boring but fuck that. The use of orchestra in the last two albums is astonishing. Same goes to London's beautiful operatic vocals and Escarbe's guitar style... There's something very special about the way she does her solos. Sounding like a chello instead of a guitar.

Virgin Black is a lot more discret on the christianity opart of the lyrics though.

I love London's voice and Escarbe is amazing too, maybe she sounds like a cello because I knew she plays cello too. :O

Written by Ernis on 14.05.2011 at 16:36

Now that I think about this... didn't Nightwish use some Christian symbolism as well... for instance taking the motive of passion play and applying it in their previous album.

Yes but they certainly use pagan mythology too. Common theme.

Written by Yasmine on 14.05.2011 at 20:48

Yes but they certainly use pagan mythology too. Common theme.

As an ensemble who uses a wide range of cultural elements in their music, this is evident... not to mention that Christianity and pagan cultures have formed amalgams in many places...

Written by Ernis on 15.05.2011 at 01:58

Written by Yasmine on 14.05.2011 at 20:48

Yes but they certainly use pagan mythology too. Common theme.

As an ensemble who uses a wide range of cultural elements in their music, this is evident... not to mention that Christianity and pagan cultures have formed amalgams in many places...

All I can say is it's smart marketing to use as many sides of the "dice" as possible.

Written by Yasmine on 13.05.2011 at 19:04

Because it attempts to inject theology into something where it clearly had no place. Telling me this....when say....Christians mass murdered native americans and tried to teach them Christianity were they attempting to destroy the godless heathens or just doing them a favor? Same with pagan holiday, destroy paganism or innocent fun? Christian metal, usurping the music from the secular means from which it existed for so long, or just subpar metal?

It seems that we're not on the same page here and that might be my fault and for that I apologize. Let me try and clear it up so we are not having such confusion. To reiterate what I asked before I wanted to know how specifically my band, being a Christian Metal band, is trying to gain power?

And to answer your question about mass murder doing anyone a favor my answer is: no. I appose murder. I appose genocide, bigotry, racism, sexism, homophobia, slavery, poverty, hunger, corruption and war. I work daily to make my community, my world, a place of peace and unconditional love.