Written by Doc G. on 12.09.2011 at 22:14

Other than that, all my suggestions would probably be fairly typical and unhelpful. Ensiferum, Suidakra, etc, etc.

I think that's actually what he's after, 'typical' bands, unless I still don't understand the point of the thread. That is power metal bands which are typically considered by extreme metal fans as listenable.

Written by R'Vannith on 13.09.2011 at 03:09

Written by Doc G. on 12.09.2011 at 22:14

Other than that, all my suggestions would probably be fairly typical and unhelpful. Ensiferum, Suidakra, etc, etc.

I think that's actually what he's after, 'typical' bands, unless I still don't understand the point of the thread. That is power metal bands which are typically considered by extreme metal fans as listenable.

Oh, shit, I think I missed the point of the thread...I was thinking more along the lines of "extreme metal" that would appeal to power metal fans...Jesus I must have been out of it this morning.

I'm like your friend, I don't like a single power metal band...

Some of the guys from DragonForce originally played in a black/power metal band. I forget the name, Demonium or some shit.

After looking through the responses and thinking a little more about it, I edited the original post so that it asked the question that I was probably trying to ask all along: Is there a Power Metal band that works for everybody? Perhaps that will get to what I'm looking for.

Written by Promonex on 10.09.2011 at 04:12

I don't have a problem with power metal per se, I have a problem with all that generic bullshit floating around in this subgenre. Just as it is the case with every other genre of music on this planet. I've been an awful lot into power metal, but why bother with the generic stuff of one genre if you could listen to good stuff of another at the same time?

If I can pick on you once again, Promonex, I'd like to ask you about the statement I quoted above. While you make a very good point about not wasting time if you know that you're not going to like it, I just want to perhaps hear a justification on why Power Metal gets so looked down upon by those who prefer more extreme styles. I mean, if EVERY genre of music has it's fair share of crap, then that means all sorts of Black, Death, and ___core bands come out with equally appalling material as mediocre Power Metal bands do. Do Power Metal bands get more criticism because the style is more accessible and therefore they get more exposure? I would think it would require just as much skill and work ethic to make a quality Death Metal album as it would a Power Metal album.

Written by bj_waters on 22.09.2011 at 00:18
Do Power Metal bands get more criticism because the style is more accessible and therefore they get more exposure? I would think it would require just as much skill and work ethic to make a quality Death Metal album as it would a Power Metal album.

To be honest I have absolutely no idea why metalheads consider this genre or that genre to be more worthy than another. For me good music is good music, period. So perhaps you should direct that question at someone who has declared to dislike power metal as a whole?

Generally i dont mind hearing some power metal in time to time,like on concerts/gigs/while sitting in some place and such but i dont like to listen to it on regularly basis.I dont know why i dont prefer power metal,although i have listen to it a lot when i was making the firs steps into metal.I think that its because i get bored of it and generally it reminds me on glam metal very much(which i despise,but that is the other story.),or it simply not dark/desolate/grim&frostbitten for my taste

How about Powerwolf's album Bible Of The Beast? It is kind of "dark", has lyrics about satan and demons, pipe organ, etc. Not overly "happy" sounding, but very melodic of course. Though I like a decent bit of power metal or power hybrids to start with, like Wuthering Heights, Elvenking, Blind Guardian

I hate power metal. What's with that?

Written by [user id=1082] on 01.10.2011 at 02:57

I hate power metal. What's with that?

That's what this thread is about. Why don't you dislike it, but even hate it?

Written by JÄY on 12.09.2011 at 06:48

i find myself needing constant awesome riffage in power songs. Many power bands these days rely far too much on "an epic feeling" rather than badass riffs. its all chugging and power chords...nothing puts me to sleep faster.

Same here. I think you described pretty well one of the main issues I have with Powermetal.

Well, since I'm a fan of extreme metal (mostly Black, some Thrash too), I believe I might be able to name a few bands that (in my humble opinion) have a chance to appeal to those who are into extreme metal and have no fondness for Powermetal.
I would recommend checking:

Bal-Sagoth (it's partly Powermetal but also flirts with extreme metal, I like this one - especially the first two albums and the last)
Blind Guardian (first three, maybe four albums)
Helloween (until Keeper II)
Persuader
Dark Empire

Try Adagio, they have some growls and mostly dark.

Written by Promonex on 10.09.2011 at 16:09

Written by Chainer on 10.09.2011 at 07:22

Quite a well thought out and thorough response. It strikes a nerve however. After browsing this tread, it would appear that the majority of folks began their metal education with power metal. This being said, some event (joining MS or whathaveyou) prompted a maturation in their musical taste. This preference shift seems to favor preference for more extreme forms of metal. While I realize that this is off topic, my point is that do you think that power metal is an accessible enough metal sub-genre to draw in the curious and eventually expose the tenacious to more 'worthy' forms of metal?

Accessibility is the key factor to get people interested in any kind of music they haven't been acquainted with yet. For the casual listener power metal and all kinds of female fronted metal sound pleasant and not as repulsive as, say, Kataklysm or Dark Funeral. That's the kind of music you can play in your car without the techno-loving co-driver complaining all the time. It's "pleasantness" makes it a good interface with the mainstream music styles.
Another common path into metal are the modern permutations of metal which stand out with their attitude and may or may not draw inspirations from other styles. Pantera, Machine Head and Five Finger Death Punch have a lot of attitude and are quite popular with younger folks, so did Slipknot and Limp Bizkit when nu metal was big and so do BFMV, BMTH, AILD and all the other acronyms in these days and times. All these bands operate on the interface between metal and mainstream music. And once people have stepped into the metal scene they will be subjected to all the other genres one way or another. Whether you'll enjoy all the other subgenres is up to you, to what you expect in your music, but you can't deny that some music styles need some getting used to before you can appreciate them. So the way I see it there definitely is a directionality in the process of "maturation", from the more accessible styles to the less accessible styles. It's the same for all styles of music, you may start with Marylin Manson and end up with Throbbing Gristle, or start with Craig David and end up with Burial. But unless you're a Manowar or Motörhead fanatic, the process of maturation takes place at any given time. For some people extreme metal might remain a locked chest, for some it might be the be-all and end-all and for others it might just be an intermediate stage, another interface to further styles.

I don't think there is any form of metal that is 'more worthy'. I've listened to a lot of power metal, but nothing except four or five bands actually stuck with me, I absolutely dislike the genre as a whole - I'm willing to try new things and be pleasantly surprised, but nothing more. But I don't claim it's less worthy than any other genre. There is a bit of snobism on metal forums, claiming that doom is the most mature and the original metal genre, or that avantguarde is awesome no matter what it is, or black metal is the most forward thinking yacketi yack. But one man's shit is another man's treasure.

As for it being more accessible... for most, yes, no growled vocals and no overly technical stuff means it's easier to get used to it. But a lot of angsty youth, and that's at least 50% of people who get into metal, say 'screw this, I want something else' and start listening to death, thrash, grindcore, black and stuff like that. The same with Evanescence, Lacuna Coil - you may claim them to be accessible, but I think their young fanbase is at least 70% female, and they're not at all accessible to young males. Having said all that, I still believe extreme metal is somewhat of an acquired taste, because it is still beyond a lot of people's interests, mainly because of the vocals, but also for other reasons. For an example, I had no problem getting into melodeath or extreme gothic and stuff like that that flirts with the melodic genres. But I don't listen to, let's say, pure death, because all my needs for 'brutality' are easily satisfied with, let's say, early DT. Similar with black metal - don't wanna waste a lot of time with something I'm not going to even like in the end.

Firewind is nice I think, because of the singer. Personally I don't like grunting that much, that's why I can really appreciate power metal (though I'm a huge thrash fan).

I don't care much about labels that people like to stick on bands but I mostly prefer my music a bit raw. I used to listen to Helloween around Keeper Of The Seven Keys but apart from that I have very little experience with Power Metal.

Written by Doc G. on 13.09.2011 at 07:34

I was thinking more along the lines of "extreme metal" that would appeal to power metal fans...

Well then Skeletonwitch would indeed be a very good choice.

On topic:
I think Iced Earth would appeal to fans of extreme metal genres, I'm talking about their first 5 albums here though, I don't know the other ones. They have a much darker sound than most power metal bands and they rely mainly on riffs, which makes them heavier. They are definitely one of the bands that got me into power metal.

Written by Sammol on 03.10.2011 at 12:13

Try Adagio, they have some growls and mostly dark.

Me thinks this is quite good

Rock and Roll came first and Metal of all stripes derived from it. Therefore, I believe that even if a Metal band is going to one polar extreme or another, at the very end of the day the music should do as it's forefathers did and, first and foremost, it should fucking rock! To me, Power Metal doesn't do this. It all sounds like the soundtrack to some nerdy 80's D&D player's wet dreams to me. Cheesy isn't necessarily bad, but when it comes in such huge quantities, as it often does in Power Metal, it starts to make me nauseous. Sounding epic is cool and all but not on every single song on every last album.

This though is simply my opinion, and in answer to your question I don't think there is any Power Metal band that would appeal to someone who prefers Black/Death Metal. The two styles are polar opposites.

However, they may not be Power Metal, but bands like Ghost, In Solitude, or The Devil's Blood could help to bridge the divide perhaps? Or even early In Flames? Despite the growls their early work was given to flights of fancy. Who knows, you might like it and find something new to talk to your friend about????

Written by IncoherentScream on 29.01.2012 at 22:32

Rock and Roll came first and Metal of all stripes derived from it. Therefore, I believe that even if a Metal band is going to one polar extreme or another, at the very end of the day the music should do as it's forefathers did and, first and foremost, it should fucking rock! To me, Power Metal doesn't do this. It all sounds like the soundtrack to some nerdy 80's D&D player's wet dreams to me. Cheesy isn't necessarily bad, but when it comes in such huge quantities, as it often does in Power Metal, it starts to make me nauseous. Sounding epic is cool and all but not on every single song on every last album.

This though is simply my opinion, and in answer to your question I don't think there is any Power Metal band that would appeal to someone who prefers Black/Death Metal. The two styles are polar opposites.

However, they may not be Power Metal, but bands like Ghost, In Solitude, or The Devil's Blood could help to bridge the divide perhaps? Or even early In Flames? Despite the growls their early work was given to flights of fancy. Who knows, you might like it and find something new to talk to your friend about????

Not even Kamelot? C'mon!

I'm not against more extreme music, I happen to like a fairly nice slice of Melodic Death or Thrash. The idea of the thread was to see if there was a Power Metal band that everyone could agree did some pretty good stuff (my nomination is Kamelot). It's the "exception to the rule" kind of thing, where despite all of the hate, criticism, and derision that Flower Metal gets, there's at least one band that everyone can point to and say "Now this isn't too bad." Getting back to my friend, despite preferring extreme metal, he brought up that he did actually like the occasional fluff of Power Metal, specifically referring to a Heavenly song (I can't remember which one). This is why I tried to recommend Kamelot, but he blew me off. (Then again, I don't think he's taken any of my recommendations seriously, even outside of music, and I doubt I've ever had a even conversation with him; it's usually just him opining and me listening. Heh.)

You bring up the idea that metal is on some kind of continuum, with Power at one end and Death/Black at the other, the idea being that a listener could bridge from the light end to the extreme end with bands in the middle (thus all of the Power/Thrash and MeloDeath recommendations). However, I prefer to think of the subgenres of metal to be on a field, with each type taking up space somewhat near to each other. Power and Black may not seem so close, but consider this: Folk Metal was a style that was born out of Black Metal, and I know that there are a handful of bands that combine Power with Folk (Alestorm, anyone?). I'm sure that there is some crossover with Power and Death as well (Children of Bodom maybe?) Looking at it this way, a new metalhead can explore the terrain like a campground, settling in on one section or another. It isn't so much about a point or a span on a continuum but rather how much one wanders around the field. This is how we get people who like everything; they wander all over the map.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong to sticking with your preferred subgenres; I admit that I spend most of my time in the melodic portions, but I've ventured out to the other styles with mixed results. I'm just curious about the adventures that people from the other side of the camp have had on this side.

Written by bj_waters on 30.01.2012 at 05:18

Written by IncoherentScream on 29.01.2012 at 22:32

Rock and Roll came first and Metal of all stripes derived from it. Therefore, I believe that even if a Metal band is going to one polar extreme or another, at the very end of the day the music should do as it's forefathers did and, first and foremost, it should fucking rock! To me, Power Metal doesn't do this. It all sounds like the soundtrack to some nerdy 80's D&D player's wet dreams to me. Cheesy isn't necessarily bad, but when it comes in such huge quantities, as it often does in Power Metal, it starts to make me nauseous. Sounding epic is cool and all but not on every single song on every last album.

This though is simply my opinion, and in answer to your question I don't think there is any Power Metal band that would appeal to someone who prefers Black/Death Metal. The two styles are polar opposites.

However, they may not be Power Metal, but bands like Ghost, In Solitude, or The Devil's Blood could help to bridge the divide perhaps? Or even early In Flames? Despite the growls their early work was given to flights of fancy. Who knows, you might like it and find something new to talk to your friend about????

Not even Kamelot? C'mon!

I'm not against more extreme music, I happen to like a fairly nice slice of Melodic Death or Thrash. The idea of the thread was to see if there was a Power Metal band that everyone could agree did some pretty good stuff (my nomination is Kamelot). It's the "exception to the rule" kind of thing, where despite all of the hate, criticism, and derision that Flower Metal gets, there's at least one band that everyone can point to and say "Now this isn't too bad." Getting back to my friend, despite preferring extreme metal, he brought up that he did actually like the occasional fluff of Power Metal, specifically referring to a Heavenly song (I can't remember which one). This is why I tried to recommend Kamelot, but he blew me off. (Then again, I don't think he's taken any of my recommendations seriously, even outside of music, and I doubt I've ever had a even conversation with him; it's usually just him opining and me listening. Heh.)

You bring up the idea that metal is on some kind of continuum, with Power at one end and Death/Black at the other, the idea being that a listener could bridge from the light end to the extreme end with bands in the middle (thus all of the Power/Thrash and MeloDeath recommendations). However, I prefer to think of the subgenres of metal to be on a field, with each type taking up space somewhat near to each other. Power and Black may not seem so close, but consider this: Folk Metal was a style that was born out of Black Metal, and I know that there are a handful of bands that combine Power with Folk (Alestorm, anyone?). I'm sure that there is some crossover with Power and Death as well (Children of Bodom maybe?) Looking at it this way, a new metalhead can explore the terrain like a campground, settling in on one section or another. It isn't so much about a point or a span on a continuum but rather how much one wanders around the field. This is how we get people who like everything; they wander all over the map.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong to sticking with your preferred subgenres; I admit that I spend most of my time in the melodic portions, but I've ventured out to the other styles with mixed results. I'm just curious about the adventures that people from the other side of the camp have had on this side.

Well I wasn't trying to say that Metal was a continuum so much as pointing out that Power and Black/Death were so far removed from each other that I can't really imagine someone who is staunchly rooted in one or the other genre to find a band that would appeal to them. People such as your friend. I myself enjoy many genres of Metal, Black/Death being my favorite but Power is one of the sub-genres I just don't like at all. I believe I gave the reasons why so I won't repeat myself, but no I don't even like Kamelot.

Yes there are genres in between which is why I was pointing out Ghost, In Solitude, etc. Not necessarily Power or Death/Black but somewhere in a middle ground lying closer to the roots of the Extreme side of things, thus bringing you and your friend in a bit closer when talking about Metal in general.

Also I found this funny;

Quote:
...derision that Flower Metal gets

Flower Metal...a Freudian slip perhaps???

Written by IncoherentScream on 30.01.2012 at 14:50

Quote:
...derision that Flower Metal gets

Flower Metal...a Freudian slip perhaps???

You must be new to this thread. I've been saying Flower Metal intentionally from time to time. I mostly use it as a shorthand to differentiate the likes of DragonForce, Stratovarius, and Rhapsody of Fire from Mystic Prophecy and Iced Earth. Personally, I would use High Power Metal vs. Low Power Metal, but I'm not pretentious enough to expect everyone to use a convention that I've invented. I also have no qualms about calling it Flower Metal. It's flowery, I'll admit it, but that's also why I like it. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Also, forget about my friend. As I said, I really don't think he'd take any recommendations from me.

Ah so it was intentional. I see....well played!

But seriously yeah I was about to recommend you drop this "friend" who doesn't even take the time to listen to your recommendations before shitting on them. At least I TRY to listen to a bands' album before I state how I feel about it. I think I've listened to a full album from just about every band you mentioned right there. I'll give anything a shot, because I could always be surprised. Power Metal just hasn't done it for me yet. I think it's the thematic element really. Black/Death can be just as cheesy and over the top, but in general the elements of the world and society that especially Black Metal were trying to tackle engage me more than what Dragonforce or Iced Earth is doing. Not that their music is any less valid. On the contrary, any art that is important to you is validated and therefore IS important in the larger scheme of things. Just for you I'm going to try and give Kamelot a listen again. You keep name dropping them and it's been a good while since I gave them a shot. I'll let you know...

Written by bj_waters on 30.01.2012 at 05:18

Folk Metal was a style that was born out of Black Metal

Not really relevant to this topic, but folk metal was born out of this.

Written by IncoherentScream on 31.01.2012 at 01:19

Ah so it was intentional. I see....well played!

But seriously yeah I was about to recommend you drop this "friend" who doesn't even take the time to listen to your recommendations before shitting on them. At least I TRY to listen to a bands' album before I state how I feel about it. I think I've listened to a full album from just about every band you mentioned right there. I'll give anything a shot, because I could always be surprised. Power Metal just hasn't done it for me yet. I think it's the thematic element really. Black/Death can be just as cheesy and over the top, but in general the elements of the world and society that especially Black Metal were trying to tackle engage me more than what Dragonforce or Iced Earth is doing. Not that their music is any less valid. On the contrary, any art that is important to you is validated and therefore IS important in the larger scheme of things. Just for you I'm going to try and give Kamelot a listen again. You keep name dropping them and it's been a good while since I gave them a shot. I'll let you know...

I'm only name-dropping because Kamelot seem to be a likely candidate, especially the Karma and Black Halo albums. Of course, I wouldn't deny that they're in my top five metal bands (if I could put together a top five).

Written by Promonex on 31.01.2012 at 04:52

Written by bj_waters on 30.01.2012 at 05:18

Folk Metal was a style that was born out of Black Metal

Not really relevant to this topic, but folk metal was born out of this.

I admit that I'm still pretty new to the variety of metal genres available (I've only been a metalhead for five years), so my experience with folk metal consists of a handful of albums (mostly Equilibrium). I knew that Skyclad was often regarded as the first folk metal band, but I hadn't listened to them yet. I'm mostly drawing the Folk/Black connection from the amount of crossover there is between folk and the pagan half of Black metal and that Bathroy did Viking metal (while still being Black) after a while, so trying to draw lines between Black/Viking/Pagan/Folk is an exercise in extreme hair-splitting. I had assumed that Skyclad had more black metal influences, but apparently I was mistaken. Thanks Promonex.

Written by [user id=1082] on 01.10.2011 at 02:57

I hate power metal. What's with that?

Then its better to avoid this thread and just move on.

I still have a doubt on many guys( including me at one point of time!!) of understanding this thread totally. what you actually want is something will not delivered accurately 'cause Strike 1: lot of guys on MS hates Power Metal, so no supports clearly!
Strike 2: It's like asking a deathcorehead to ask about old 80's Thrash Metal, which he/she will fail incredibly.
Strike 3: For extreme Metalheads...why they will care fuck about Power Metal??!!

and many more Strikes!! by naming few bands( as been already done by many guys out here) won't clear the fact( atleast not mine) so no point going further discussing what they want. *Do you want Hobbit to come here and smash his answers in paragraphs?*

Written by IncoherentScream on 29.01.2012 at 22:32

The two styles are polar opposites.

This seems to be the attitude many metalheads hold and it's one I cannot quite grasp. In what sense are they polar opposites? First of all they are both metal. Perhaps within the genre of metal they are completely opposite? I don't think that's the case either, 'extreme' metal fans often seem to have some notion that power metal is completely contradictory to say Black or Death.

Personally I find this ridiculous, they are not in contradiction. They are simply different variants within the genre of metal. The obvious levels of cheese within power metal may not be matched by Black or Death but why does this put them at odds?

Written by R'Vannith on 31.01.2012 at 15:26

Written by IncoherentScream on 29.01.2012 at 22:32

The two styles are polar opposites.

This seems to be the attitude many metalheads hold and it's one I cannot quite grasp. In what sense are they polar opposites? First of all they are both metal. Perhaps within the genre of metal they are completely opposite? I don't think that's the case either, 'extreme' metal fans often seem to have some notion that power metal is completely contradictory to say Black or Death.

Personally I find this ridiculous, they are not in contradiction. They are simply different variants within the genre of metal. The obvious levels of cheese within power metal may not be matched by Black or Death but why does this put them at odds?

How could they not be considered complete opposites?? Can you seriously listen to a Dragonforce song then switch records and listen to a track off of Blaze in the Northern Sky and tell me that the two are not contradictory? Sure, they both use power chords. That's where the similarities end. Power Metal is generally a triumphant, fist in the air kind of Metal. The sort of soundtrack you might expect to hear when the hero woops ass on the legions of evil. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is sort of the whole point of most Power Metal, is it not? At least what I've heard that is what they were doing. Power Metal also seems to be generally about a certain concept i.e. most of the albums attempt to tell a story about a hero/wizard/etc.

Black Metal on the other hand (forget about Death for the moment) uses minor chords, tremolo picking, etc. to create a deep, dark, chilling sound. The complete opposite of the sunny "here comes the hero" style of most Power Metal bands. Black Metal is about nihilism, Satanism, anti-Christianity, anti-authority, romanticism of death, etc. Sound like anything any Power Metal band has ever tried to write about? Yes they both use Metal to create an atmosphere but they do it so in such wildly different ways that it's hard to imagine anyone finding any serious comparison between them.

Just because both exist under the larger tent of Metal doesn't mean they are close enough to be compared and/or for a hardcore fan of one sub-genre to be enthralled with the other. Those drawn to Black/Death are drawn to it for certain qualities they hold. Qualities that Power Metal does not have. The same goes for fans of Power Metal. The sound and lyrical/thematic content of Black/Death is, quite literally, night and day when compared to Power Metal.

Written by IncoherentScream on 01.02.2012 at 01:44

How could they not be considered complete opposites?? Can you seriously listen to a Dragonforce song then switch records and listen to a track off of Blaze in the Northern Sky and tell me that the two are not contradictory? Sure, they both use power chords. That's where the similarities end.

Personally, while I can see the difference, that's all there is to it for me. Difference. Not opposition. Why does a number of differences, as numerous as they may be, make the two variants of metal opposite?

Written by IncoherentScream on 01.02.2012 at 01:44

Power Metal is generally a triumphant, fist in the air kind of Metal. The sort of soundtrack you might expect to hear when the hero woops ass on the legions of evil. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is sort of the whole point of most Power Metal, is it not? At least what I've heard that is what they were doing. Power Metal also seems to be generally about a certain concept i.e. most of the albums attempt to tell a story about a hero/wizard/etc.

Very generally you could say that this is the traditional theme of Power metal. It does go beyond this stereotype, but your simplification of it is fair enough.

Written by IncoherentScream on 01.02.2012 at 01:44

Black Metal on the other hand (forget about Death for the moment) uses minor chords, tremolo picking, etc. to create a deep, dark, chilling sound. The complete opposite of the sunny "here comes the hero" style of most Power Metal bands. Black Metal is about nihilism, Satanism, anti-Christianity, anti-authority, romanticism of death, etc. Sound like anything any Power Metal band has ever tried to write about? Yes they both use Metal to create an atmosphere but they do it so in such wildly different ways that it's hard to imagine anyone finding any serious comparison between them.

If you can't compare them, how are they opposite? Is finding no similarities between Power metal and, in your example, Black metal a reason to state that they are opposite? I don't think so, different is all they are, there is no opposition.

The problem I see is that there is some attempt in the metal to make out that power metal is the opposite of more extreme forms of metal. This relies on over simplifying each genre, ruling out the variances within each and basing their claim that the two are just incompatible on intangible grounds.

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 31.01.2012 at 10:47

I still have a doubt on many guys( including me at one point of time!!) of understanding this thread totally. what you actually want is something will not delivered accurately 'cause Strike 1: lot of guys on MS hates Power Metal, so no supports clearly!
Strike 2: It's like asking a deathcorehead to ask about old 80's Thrash Metal, which he/she will fail incredibly.
Strike 3: For extreme Metalheads...why they will care fuck about Power Metal??!!

and many more Strikes!! by naming few bands( as been already done by many guys out here) won't clear the fact( atleast not mine) so no point going further discussing what they want. *Do you want Hobbit to come here and smash his answers in paragraphs?*

To be honest, I (the instigator of this thread) have lost track of what I'm expecting out of this thread. I think part of the problem is that I spend time at Metal Crypt, a small metal community that focuses on reviews. One of the major reviewers there is Sargon the Terrible who seems to be (from my perspective) a pretty good expert on Black and Death Metal, and Kamelot (specifically Epica and The Black Halo) is one of his favorite bands. Over time, I've developed this assumption that all metalheads listen to most (if not all) subgenres of metal. While they'll have their favorite genres, they would be willing to acknowledge when one of their less favorable genres puts out quality work. Essentially, I put Sargon up as a kind of ideal and worked my way towards being open-minded like him, thinking that's what everyone else is doing. Thus, this thread. To further illustrate my naivete, whenever I saw anti-power-metal sentiment on sites and forums, I thought it had more to do with criticizing the bands that are perpetuating the predictable and unoriginal Power Metal stereotype than it was simply dropping the subgenre as a whole.

Putting some thought into it now, it makes sense that there are going to be a lot of people who stubbornly hold to their preferences to the point of dismissing others; it happens with video games, movies, comics, and other fields of music. Perhaps those of us who are willing to try different styles are fewer than I had imagined. I had no intention of demeaning those who stick with what they like; it's their right to do so (if I have offended you, I apologize). I simply thought that since metal is already a heavily marginalized genre of music that its fans would be more accepting to the nuances metal has developed, but I guess I was wrong.

And it's not like I'm perfect in my exploration of metal: I struggle to find patience with the idea of nu metal being a part of metal, and in particular the group Limp Bizkit, but I saw a video that combined the song "Rollin'" with footage from Katamari Damacy and thought that was pretty cool. It doesn't mean I'm a Limp Bizkit fan now (I'm not). It just means that a good idea can strike when you least expect it.

Written by R'Vannith on 01.02.2012 at 04:22

Written by IncoherentScream on 01.02.2012 at 01:44

Power Metal is generally a triumphant, fist in the air kind of Metal. The sort of soundtrack you might expect to hear when the hero woops ass on the legions of evil. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is sort of the whole point of most Power Metal, is it not? At least what I've heard that is what they were doing. Power Metal also seems to be generally about a certain concept i.e. most of the albums attempt to tell a story about a hero/wizard/etc.

Very generally you could say that this is the traditional theme of Power metal. It does go beyond this stereotype, but your simplification of it is fair enough.

While I find R'Vannith's arguments interesting, this is a nagging sticking-point for me, and perhaps what this thread has become: me defending Power Metal as a legitimate style of music capable of producing quality work (which, of course, begs the questions of "Why does it need defending?" and "Why am I being so defensive?" I have so far to go).

I understand that Power Metal = Fantasy Lyrics is the sterotype and there are a bevy of bad examples of this, I still want to argue against the idea that all Power Metal has fantasy lyrics or that it has to have fantasy lyrics to be considered Power Metal. I believe that the definition of a musical style (or subgenre) should not be dependent upon its lyrical content. Not all Death Metal is about death. Not all Black Metal is about Satanism. And not all Power Metal is World of Warcraft/D&D fodder. For what it's worth, I think that Helloween and Stratovarius hasn't had that many fantasy songs, Sonata Arctica have grown to have songs about all sorts of things, and Kamelot's Epica and Black Halo are a dual concept album about a pair of plays from the 19th century, just like Lulu (insert canned laughter ). For crying out loud, Power Quest did a song on their last album about the worldwide recession called "Crunching the Numbers!" (I'm not saying it was great, I'm just saying it wasn't fantasy).

I guess all I want is for everyone to get along and at least acknowledge the potential good in everything. What can I say? I'm an idealist.