@danzig111, no offence man, but why don't you go listen to some hardcore and do some background checks on the genre before retorting such things.

Hardcore is hardcore punk, unless we're talking about electronic music. It started with bands like Discharge and Minor Threat in the early 80s, and has developed since, just like modern DM doesn't sound exactly like old school DM, but it's still DM.

People are not being prejudiced towards your posts, people are correcting your vast array of classification mistakes, which are mostly due to prejudice. You're basically saying that nu metal is synonymous with alternative metal, and well, it's not.

Written by [user id=5080] on 29.05.2006 at 20:24

(I hate to use that term because it includes bands that have nothing to do with each other)

That's the same with all large groupings. Take "melodic" or "extreme" metal for example. Melodic has such opposing styles as funeral doom, classic power metal, and symphonic. Extreme has such opposing styles as classic thrash, grindcore, viking, and black metal. Alternative metal is just a large generalized grouping like the others - it's not meant as slanderous

However, like all large groupings, "alternative" metal is definitely going to scare away new listeners if they misunderstand it. To an outsider the first thing that comes to mind is nu or metalcore (due to the growing media attention toward the genre). If you look at genres like industrial or stoner metal by themselves you'll find a healthy underground following.

Edit: I also wanted to add that I agree with whoever was talking about open-mindedness in metal. It's non-existant. Everyone is open-minded about THEIR favourite genres and thinks everyone else should be too. Rarely do you find a metalhead who is willing to listening to someone else's music

Lyrinan: well, but "alternative" Metal is a term used in a much wider range than "extreme" or "melodic"... people talk about black, death, doom, power etc, but they generally use the word "alternative" rfering to industrial or metalcore.

becouse its not considered as "true" ... but i think thats a bounch of bullshit! i don't understand why they think iron maiden as metal!

I only understand now that nu-metal is alternative metal
I was thinking that this kind of "music" is just as is called: nu-metal....not alternative
I was wrong
Speaking serius....alternative metal bands are that kind of bands that doesn´t fit only in a genre but in various. Ex. Ephel Duath (actual).... Black, Jazz, Prog. Isis, Cult of luna, Burst...etc..

Here people are a bit closed minded towards the new stuff stylewise, but that's ok. If they were more open minded may be we'd be having here hip-hop and pop and I think it's better this way. It's cool to have a site that stands for true metal and doesn't add or pay attention to nu metal, metalcore and stuff just because they are popullar. That's a truly profiled media for me. Despite the fact that I also listen to a lot of nu stuff like soulfly, slipknot and korn I really respect this site and the people that are working to make it reallity for standing for what they are about for such a long time. Great job! I've admired you guys from the very beginning.

I dont understand why some people think alt metal is just nu metal either alt metal i'd say is metal combined with 'popular' types of music but obviously its not always that case and danzig111 you say you hate alt metal and you like rammstein whats all that about. Me I like loads of different types of music does that make me such a 'untrue' person no I like everything really from cannibal corpse to radiohead.

Must be some european thing....strange people

Written by MigraineBoy on 17.06.2006 at 22:43

Must be some european thing....strange people

What's wrong with European people?

Written by Twilight on 18.06.2006 at 01:17

Written by MigraineBoy on 17.06.2006 at 22:43

Must be some european thing....strange people

What's wrong with European people?

I don't know, must be the water or something, but european just seems to reject america's way of making metal (supposing that america is the father of alternative metal). Even so, Europe is still the king in metal issues...and they have the best leagues in football too! God bless Neatherlands!

Lol. Well I'm European too and I like Dillinger Escape Plan, Mr. Bungle and a lot more that are from the US. So I'm not rejecting everything.
It just has to be something original and appealing to me. Wether it's from Sweden or the US, that doesn't matter.

Why do i visit this section only 2 times in a year? Just because i hate that alternative metal like Rammstein, Slipknot, Guano Apes and similar crap that is destroying metal. Why shoudl i listen it - it has no guitar solos at all, guitar player plays 2-3 chords in a song, vocalist has got so poor voice and there is full of rap.
I could call it pokemon-rock.

I guess there will be lots of replies against this one but i won't change my mind.

Written by W-Lash on 18.06.2006 at 19:05

Why do i visit this section only 2 times in a year? Just because i hate that alternative metal like Rammstein, Slipknot, Guano Apes and similar crap that is destroying metal. Why shoudl i listen it - it has no guitar solos at all, guitar player plays 2-3 chords in a song, vocalist has got so poor voice and there is full of rap.
I could call it pokemon-rock.

I guess there will be lots of replies against this one but i won't change my mind.

Yawn. Another overly opinionated, under educated 'metalhead' (this site has expanded my horizons in metal, but fuck, I have grown to hate metalheads...)

No solos? Burzum amongst your favorites... it's not like Varg is a guitar wizard... I don't ever recall hearing him sweep picking and twohanding tapping the dorian scale in a minor during an interlude in a Burzum track. And he doesn't exactly have the pipes of one of the three tenors either.

You also list Windir, Dimmu Borgir, and Carpathian forest - while I don't have each of their entire back catalog, the stuff I have heard from each has been fairly devoid of solos. Hell, I own a good 40 or so black metal albums and I could probably count the solos I've heard in all my black metal albums on my thumbs.

Solos do not a metal band make.

Instead of visiting this forum twice a year, just don't bother. The expansive nature of this category is clearly beyond your grasp.

Written by _HIV_ on 03.06.2006 at 10:30

becouse its not considered as "true" ... but i think thats a bounch of bullshit! i don't understand why they think iron maiden as metal!

Isn't Iron Maiden about as metal as you can get? You don't consider them metal?

Written by W-Lash on 18.06.2006 at 19:05

Why do i visit this section only 2 times in a year? Just because i hate that alternative metal like Rammstein, Slipknot, Guano Apes and similar crap that is destroying metal. Why shoudl i listen it - it has no guitar solos at all, guitar player plays 2-3 chords in a song, vocalist has got so poor voice and there is full of rap.
I could call it pokemon-rock.

I guess there will be lots of replies against this one but i won't change my mind.

Then you're close-minded.

You wouldn't need to post this if you've read the whole thread. So you're close-minded and lazy.
Alternative metal is much more than the crappy bands you mention, and you're a good example of why alt. metal is so unpopular. But if I'm wrong about you being lazy then you've probably already read that this genre is misunderstood and is much broader than slipknot, rammstein and korn.

Quote:
guitar player plays 2-3 chords in a song, vocalist has got so poor voice and there is full of rap.

You're so completely wrong with these statements.

I guess the answer to the question pending here is: because there are so many W-Lashes on these forums.

Written by [user id=1987] on 18.06.2006 at 21:28

I guess the answer to the question pending here is: because there are so many W-Lashes on these forums.

Quite right.

But yeah, it would su-.. eh, not be very good if that's the truth.

I consider myself to be very openminded. Though my favirote genre is definitely the Melodic Death/Gothenburg sound...I gotta have some love for alt-metal [I'm a bassist in a moderately successful alt-metal band myself] and the occasional Nu Metal band. I don't necessarily listen to them for the solos and whatnot...I love the rhythm, feel, and meaning of a lot of the stuff. Tool is definitely one of my favirote bands, but so is Dark Tranquillity, you can like them both for different reasons.

Aaand now that I think of it...check us out! www.myspace.com/Soulflaw

...Standing still has a solo at about 2:40. We play in Dropped Bb and Dropped C, but we're still mostly alternative metal, tell me what you think.

It is really a bit strange how the scene is totally different here in Europe and in the States... here the audience is much more true... i think its all about tradition... European people are more traditional in general and the yankees know nothing about tradition, cause they basicly don't really have one

P.S.: don't be offended... it's true!

I'm not really offended. But when I was younger I was listening to electronic music, no metal at all. So I can't say anything about these traditions.

Let's just say that it has something to do with wanting to search further than be content with the music you know. Hoping that you can find a very cool and unique band is a nice goal and so far I've found quite a lot. For me it has nothing to do with tradition.

By the way, I think there are just as many Europeans here that like Alternative metal as Americans.

I just have to say that I find it to be a rather hilarious statement that someone would listen to music for the solos Does such a person "get" music? Any music?

Written by [user id=1987] on 18.06.2006 at 22:31

I just have to say that I find it to be a rather hilarious statement that someone would listen to music for the solos Does such a person "get" music? Any music?

A solo is just something extra. Sometimes it completes the music piece, sometimes it doesn't. In most music solos aren't really needed.
For me solos are never something that really should be in music. A song can be complete without one.

Ok, i didn't read all replies (I AM too lazy). I will say that i have never been interested in so called alternative metal and i know only some bands and i dislike them all. If there is a big difference between alternative metal and so called nu-metal (then you should explain for me to know) then sorry guys but i can't like it. I cant.

And MS is a place where are lots of black/death lovers and they don't like this alternative too. That's why so little people post in alternative threads.

Yeah, I guess you're right. But there are quite some prog lovers around too. And I guess some of them might be interested in this genre.

And no, Alternative Metal is definitely not the same as nu-metal. I assume you've probably heard some nu-metal bands. If you want really good alternative metal bands you should try Dillinger Escape Plan, Fantomas (Really hard to get into, though), Sleepytime Gorilla Museum and Cult of Luna. But there are a lot more. I'd say just take a look in some of the threads in this category! Pick a few and read the comments.

But where is the main difference between alternative and nu metal?

@W-Lash, man, go listen to it, how about that. Also, you might want to look up the word "alternative" in a dictionary.

Or is it so that one has to pick a favourite genre and stick to only that?

There is no real definition of Alternative Metal. That's why it's so diverse. And that's also why there's also some crap among the good stuff. But same goes for other metal styles.

Written by [user id=1987] on 19.06.2006 at 00:37

@W-Lash, man, go listen to it, how about that.

You gonna be kidding. I don't want to listen lots of alternative but there is no point to listen only one song - if you want to understand a style, you have to listen much more.

Seeing as the current discussion is the difference between nu metal and alt metal, I'm going to sort of attempt to answer the question. Alt metal is an over-encompassing genre that includes nu, stoner, slude, industrial etc metal, similarly to how melodic metal is made up of prog, power, heavy, gothic etc metal. So, asking what the difference between nu and alt metal is like asking what the difference between extreme and thrash metal is.

Whiplash - for starters, READ THE ENTIRE THREAD.

There are many, many bands listed which demonstrate how Alternative metal - while it includes nu-metal - encompasses a lot of styles.

It's been explained fairly thoroughly in the thread already. If you are too lazy to read what has been posted, you are probably too lazy to read anything we waste time posting subsequently.

You, like Danzig111, are just another undereducated troll that attempts to encapsulate an entire HUGE genre under the 2-3 bands you've heard of.

It would be basically saying that the entirety of "Extreme Metal" (i.e. Grind, Black, Death) is represented by Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir.

I suggested it once, and I will suggest it again.

If you cannot bother to read the posts, read the explanations, and educate yourself to what is covered under the alternative metal umbrella, do not bother to post here.

As someone once said,

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."