Written by BitterCOld on 12.11.2007 at 18:09

Written by Warman on 12.11.2007 at 17:48

I'm not a great fan of Alternative Metal because I just don't think it inspires me as much as the other genres. Also, Korn is an Alternative band...

and the greased up, loincloth sporting Manowar are "metal" - good thing I didn't judge all metal based on them, eh? Otherwise, after hearing "Blow your speakers" I never would have ever picked up any metal tape or cd ever again.

i swear each visit to this thread to read some of the responses leaves me feeling "dumber" than before I clicked the link.

Huh? Man, I was kinda sarcastic with that Korn thing. I hate them but of course don't judge the whole genre because of them. Hey, an Alternative band is one of my absolute favourite bands. But overall I think it's the least good Metal just because it does not inspire me as much as Melodic or Extreme Metal.

just tired and have a short fuse with anyone mentioning nu-metal in this thread because too many of them fail to realize there is a hell of a lot more to alternative metal than nu-metal.

Written by BitterCOld on 12.11.2007 at 19:29

There is a hell of a lot more to alternative metal than nu-metal.

You're completely right, although Nu Metal has some really cool bands. But there's also Avantegarde, Industrial, and this genre Queens Of Teh Stone Age plays, I can't remember what it is... also Mastodon... But since Nu is the most popular, that's what people knows more, after all wecan't expect everyone to like Fantomas or Tool or Mastodon...

Ahh, of course... I'm a big fan of Avantgarde Metal (hail Celtic Frost), Industrial Metal is good too. The rest I don't care about.

well, when you say "alternative metal" i immedeately think about nu-metal and bands like Linkin Park, Limp Biskit or KoRn...and they are all horrible...so thats why i am not in alternative metal, though i know there are other bands too...but most of them are anyway closer to trash or heavy, which are the genres i dont like that much as symphonic/power/speed/folk bands

I think its because underground fands tend to hate mainstream, for example System of A Down, Rage Against the Machine, Slipknot and maybe evanescence are far more metal than any alt. metal band, yet they still are hated more than bands like Otep, a very underground one.

I don't know..maybe a lot of us on herehaven't been exposed to it. I personally just don't really like it..it's too intense for me..also it just isn't nostalgic

and basically bands like LP are reminding me dark times when i began listening to music, knew nothing about metal and worshiped such a bands like them...

Truthfully, I think we all need to unite and fight the real evil out there.... Green Day, Sum 41, My Chemical Romance, then we should argue amongst ourselves lol.
Obviously it's going to be frowned upon, most people on this site only like metal and nothing else, so they won't like metal mixed with other music, and then the steriotypes against Alternative Metal also disuade people from looking into them. When people say it's not "true" metal they just mean it's not pure metal because it's mixed with many elements from other music styles, which is perfectly true. It's not totally bad though, because the mainstream alternative bands bring fans to metal. P.S. ANY kind of metal is still better then rap, techno, emo rock, ect .

Written by [user id=27091] on 24.11.2007 at 22:00
Truthfully, I think we all need to unite and fight the real evil out there.... Green Day, Sum 41, My Chemical Romance
... P.S. ANY kind of metal is still better then rap, techno, emo rock, ect

Within a few years you will realize the ... I don't want to use the word "stupidity"... somewhere between that and "meaninglessness" of that opening sentence. I also find your closing sentence quite close-minded. Some metal just fucking sucks, it's undeniable. (BTW it's etc, not ect)

Written by Syk on 25.11.2007 at 15:38

Written by [user id=27091] on 24.11.2007 at 22:00
Truthfully, I think we all need to unite and fight the real evil out there.... Green Day, Sum 41, My Chemical Romance
... P.S. ANY kind of metal is still better then rap, techno, emo rock, ect

Within a few years you will realize the ... I don't want to use the word "stupidity"... somewhere between that and "meaninglessness" of that opening sentence. I also find your closing sentence quite close-minded. Some metal just fucking sucks, it's undeniable. (BTW it's etc, not ect)

First of all, the opening line was dumb but it was a joke, I really don't understand how you could've mistaken that for a serious comment lol, but along the line it's true. Why should metal fans argue against eachother?
How is the last sentence close minded? that's just my own personnal opinion. Some metal does fucking suck but i'd still choose it over techno any day, what you like techno, emo rock? nice lol. BTW look up close minded in the dictionary, if I find ALL metal listenable that means im open minded lol.

Written by [user id=27091] on 25.11.2007 at 20:18
First of all, the opening line was dumb but it was a joke, I really don't understand how you could've mistaken that for a serious comment lol, but along the line it's true. Why should metal fans argue against eachother?
How is the last sentence close minded? that's just my own personnal opinion. Some metal does fucking suck but i'd still choose it over techno any day, what you like techno, emo rock? nice lol. BTW look up close minded in the dictionary, if I find ALL metal listenable that means im open minded lol.

Your first line sounded like something a 14y.o would say very honestly. I can't be blamed for taking it seriously.

open-minded: "accessible to new ideas; unprejudiced." Your statement that a certain piece of music will be listenable just because "it's metal" shows this is not the case for you. Denigrating all other styles of music (yes I like some rap, techno and country, so what?) reminds me of those black metal kids that bash all other genres and would listen to bullshit over and over just because it's black metal.

Written by Syk on 26.11.2007 at 02:13

Written by [user id=27091] on 25.11.2007 at 20:18
First of all, the opening line was dumb but it was a joke, I really don't understand how you could've mistaken that for a serious comment lol, but along the line it's true. Why should metal fans argue against eachother?
How is the last sentence close minded? that's just my own personnal opinion. Some metal does fucking suck but i'd still choose it over techno any day, what you like techno, emo rock? nice lol. BTW look up close minded in the dictionary, if I find ALL metal listenable that means im open minded lol.

Your first line sounded like something a 14y.o would say very honestly. I can't be blamed for taking it seriously.

open-minded: "accessible to new ideas; unprejudiced." Your statement that a certain piece of music will be listenable just because "it's metal" shows this is not the case for you. Denigrating all other styles of music (yes I like some rap, techno and country, so what?) reminds me of those black metal kids that bash all other genres and would listen to bullshit over and over just because it's black metal.

I never denigrated other styles of music. I only said I like metal more then pretty much all other styles of music because it's my own personnal opinion. Not close minded either, i hear many other styles of music everyday, can i be blamed for not liking them? Anyways this is pointless, I have no idea why you quoted me in the first place because you chose things that have 0 relevance to the topic of this thread. No more quoting, you can consider yourself the winner if you want lol. P.S. 14 year olds aren't the only ones that make jokes....

Personally I listen to loads of other styles of music (though I have to say most or all of them do have guitars as quite an important instrument, hehe what are you gonna do). Yet alternative metal just never really attracted me in some way. May be it is because of the facade bands like Korn and Linkin Park have built that I am somehow prevented mentally from looking into these genres. Or it could be that I do not need to enter yet another style of music, since I am satisfied with listening the stuff I listen to now already, who knows? All I can say is that of course not all alternative metal sucks, I just skipped these genres somehow...

Whoa, I never really considered Nu-Metal as into the Alternative Metal. So I can't be now a total fan of Alternative Metal.

And to those that blame the genre so fast, remember how the forums separate music. Melodic / Extreme / Alternative Metal. So despising a melodic metal bands should despise all melodic metal?

Tool and isis are great!

Wow. This thread was worth a laugh.

Written by [user id=27091] on 25.11.2007 at 20:18


First of all, the opening line was dumb but it was a joke, I really don't understand how you could've mistaken that for a serious comment lol, but along the line it's true. Why should metal fans argue against eachother?
How is the last sentence close minded? that's just my own personnal opinion. Some metal does fucking suck but i'd still choose it over techno any day, what you like techno, emo rock? nice lol. BTW look up close minded in the dictionary, if I find ALL metal listenable that means im open minded lol.

Let's have some fun with this.

"why should metal fans argue against each other?"

Why? Why not? Reading this thread alone there were no less than a dozen posts from ill-informed to uninformed cement-headed metal morons spouting off views that run contrary to my own on a subject they know nothing about. Should I accept their faulty logic or take them to task for it? Given I feel very strongly about many alternative artists, I chose the second option.

"some metal does fucking suck but i'd still choose it over techno any day, what you like techno, emo rock? nice lol. BTW look up close minded in the dictionary, if I find ALL metal listenable that means i(')m open minded lol."

the stench of hypocrisy runs rife within that nugget. those statements, typed by you, back to back, are utterly hilarious. just because you find all metal "listenable" doesn't mean you are particularly open minded, especially given what you typed just one sentence earlier.

frankly, there's a lot of other music i'd take over some of that metal "that does fucking suck." but it's your loss if you opt to tune in to the latest Manowar rather than explore other genres.

@BitterCOld: Why do you bother man? I'm astonished that you're still going at it though. Killer avatar btw!

I think Bitter bothers because he knows there are people who appreciate his posts and join in laughter (like me!).

Written by Vunts on 12.12.2007 at 12:29

I think Bitter bothers because he knows there are people who appreciate his posts and join in laughter (like me!).

And me as well, plus Bitter bothers because he CARES about music unlike some users of this forum.

Im interested in some avantgarde bands and aslo somehow the genre and indutrial. But alternative metal like the band Cave In is so extremely awful

Written by Vunts on 12.12.2007 at 12:29

I think Bitter bothers because he knows there are people who appreciate his posts and join in laughter (like me!).

I'm cheering up every time I see him start one his now famous rants

Plus, like Marcel says, I think he really can't help trying to get stubborn people to see the light because he actually cares. Craig, you're my hero

Written by CrypticMyth on 12.12.2007 at 10:33

@BitterCOld: Why do you bother man? I'm astonished that you're still going at it though. Killer avatar btw!

why do i bother?

- I love to get on a soapbox and lecture/educate/rant/go off on a diatribe (could be any of the above depending upon your perspective.)

- I do care about music. I feel very strongly about it. it's been an integral part of my life since my 'awakening' some 20 years ago (more on that later).

- I don't like stupidity. particularly when it is directed against something I hold in high esteem. There are so many great bands that ultimately fall under the category "alternative metal" and yet moron after moron comes in here and can post about nothing but the same four cheesy nu-metal bands. it's akin to someone coming to this site ripping on metal because they don't like poison, def leppard, and motley crue.

In all honesty, I don't like being called a metalhead because I don't like being lumped in with those types of people, which is all too often the (deserved) stereotype of a metalhead. Beavis and Butthead were not created in a vacuum.

- Finally, "the Awakening" - there is a guy i work with who is the opposite of me in virtually every way. he's super liberal, almost a neo-hippie with unkempt hair and a grizzly adams beard, whereas i am more conservative, still sport a fairly military haircut. Our musical tastes meet at punk rock and then split off into opposite directions. i'm into more metal (and 80's alternative) whereas he's bigger into the indie rock thing.

He once posed the question, "when did you have your musical awakening?"

The when is not important for this thread - but the concept of an "awakening" is. It's the transition from liking something because it's 'hard', 'brutal', 'kvlt' or whatever kids these days say to really appreciating it in a different level. A deeper bond, a deeper connection and a deeper appreciation. I don't think I can adequately put into words what I am trying to describe here.

While our musical tastes are different, I respect his tastes because the qualities he looks for in artists are similar to mine.

And it's a conversation he wouldn't/couldn't have had with anyone else in the office, because no one else would have had a clue what he was talking about.


- Ultimately I continue to post on this thread for two reasons.

1. In the sheer hopes that perhaps my steadfastness and resolve in defending the genres on the alternative branch of the metal tree will convince an MSer or three to check some of the artists in these genres. And maybe they will experience an 'awakening' of their own.

At the very least, those who know nothing about the genre should be more educated upon leaving this thread than before they entered.

2. In the hopes that my berating the ill-informed who have no idea what in the hell they are posting about, and exposing their posts as nothing more than wastes of disk space will get others to see exactly how valueless their 'thoughts' on this subject are.

There is a saying "it is better to remain silent, and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

If someone attacks a genre or artist I love - despite obviously not having a clue what you are talking about - I will make damn sure I do my best to "remove all doubt."

Written by BitterCOld on 12.12.2007 at 19:40


In all honesty, I don't like being called a metalhead because I don't like being lumped in with those types of people, which is all too often the (deserved) stereotype of a metalhead. Beavis and Butthead were not created in a vacuum.

Craig, just a question... Isn't being part of the group and relating to others where some of the fun lies in this genre of music?

I suppose you just like to be independent of this group, yet socialize with some people who might still regard themselves as 'metalheads'. I thought it was worth asking anyway, just to know further about how you see the situation.

@Craig
My own awakening occured after hearing Ministry's "The Mind Is A Terrible Thing To Taste"... To this day, although the band has many faults, and although I've grown somewhat bored of their music, I will have a special appreciation for that one album. And its a beautiful thing. Mind opening experience. Elevation. Call it whatever you want, but Im sure you know what I mean and indeed, it is a great honor and pleasure to talk to anyone, regardless of personal preference in music, who has experienced a similar "awakening".

EDIT: This video always makes me think of such an "awakening": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldBC8ZXsDV0

Written by [user id=12867] on 13.12.2007 at 00:03

Written by BitterCOld on 12.12.2007 at 19:40


In all honesty, I don't like being called a metalhead because I don't like being lumped in with those types of people, which is all too often the (deserved) stereotype of a metalhead. Beavis and Butthead were not created in a vacuum.

Craig, just a question... Isn't being part of the group and relating to others where some of the fun lies in this genre of music?

I suppose you just like to be independent of this group, yet socialize with some people who might still regard themselves as 'metalheads'. I thought it was worth asking anyway, just to know further about how you see the situation.

Honestly, I don't have any friends in real life that would be defined as "metalheads" - I do have a couple that would catch a Slayer, Dimmu or Ministry show, but they aren't metalheads, even using the broadest definition of the term..

So Metalstorm is really the only metal community with which I am active. Metalstorm has certainly been a great thing for me. I've made friends with people from all over who I have been able to talk music with, share various memories, thoughts, and anecdotes with. They've helped expand my own horizons in music - both in metal and in genres outside of it. So yes, the community has made the experience both fun and enriching.

Consequently, as MS is the only metal community to which I am a member, I think a lot of what I read on these boards is what defines my perception of the term "metalhead."

I see myself as a metal fan, not a metalhead.

To me, the term conjures too many images that are far too similar to some of the rampant stupidity I've come across here. The "i'd rather listen to metal that fucking sucks over any techno" type attitudes, the polls where a majority of MSers thought that rappers should be decapitated (no kidding - and yet most of those posters, like BtC above, would probably call themselves "open minded")...

I still laugh when I think of one poster who started a thread that said that "all metal fans should be tolerant of the tastes of all metal fans... ...except nu-metal."

If I had a quarter for every "band x fucking rocks! :banger;" post I've read, I'd treat the entire MS staff to Wacken and Hellfest next year, drinks on me... and would probably still have enough left over to do it again in 2009.

(I should add either MS has done an ever better job in policing those types of posts, or I've somehow done an ever better job in avoiding those sorts of threads)

As a result, I think you can see my hesitance to get lumped in with that crowd based upon my personal definition.

Frankly, I'd rather just be looked at as "BitterCOld" or "OldBitterCraig" or whatever rather than as a member of some clique. Sounds too much like playground politics to me... I graduated High School and left all that crap behind long ago.

And as for the fellow posters I have connected with the best, I am not sure of their personal definitions of "metahead" vs "metal fan" or whatever, but I imagine that some might consider themselves metalheads, and others definitely would NOT consider themselves metalheads. In my mind, they are impassioned metal fans - and they are the exception rather than the rule.


Not really sure if that mess clarifies anything for you. Hopefully it does.

I know it was a typo, but actually "metahead" sounds like a brilliant accidental term for fans of music in general who happen to really enjoy the visceral power of metal a lot of the time. Good one, lol.

Written by selken on 15.11.2007 at 17:36

I think its because underground fands tend to hate mainstream, for example System of A Down, Rage Against the Machine, Slipknot and maybe evanescence are far more metal than any alt. metal band, yet they still are hated more than bands like Otep, a very underground one.

Rage Against The Machine are hated now?

I've even come across people who particularly listen to BM that strongly appreciate their work. How are they not branched from Alternative Metal?

@BitterCold: Heh. The reply clarified more than I required I think