The feud comes from people too heavily identifying themselves with a form of music. There's just as much, if not more internal bickering between metal fans as there is for this metal vs punk thing. There's really no need to pick sides, as it really doesn't matter. As already discussed earlier in the thread - punk has many subgenres; some that have metal elements, or blur the lines between the two genres entirely, some sound completely incomparable to one another, metal works the same way. The petty fighting between metal and punk generally comes from 15 year olds who set their identity by their ipod playlist (yes, I was probably one of these), or infantile morons who get combative when you tell them the two genres were are very important to one another. Sure, ska and oi have little to do with metal, whereas hardcore and crust punk played a huge part in the development of certain metal genres. Power metal has little to do with punk, while listening to later career Exploited it's easy to see they take some bits from metal. In some aspects the two genres are brethren, in others they're as different as comparing country to rap.

So, friend or foe? Neither. Picking sides like that is pretty moronic either way.

I'm almost 48 years old, so it's obvious that the mid '70s'-early '80s era was special to me and heavy metal. I laughed and ridiculed punk, new wave, and disco, as talentless "music" that I hoped would die soon, and thank God they did die, but Heavy Metal lives on, as we can surely see as this is 2011. Heavy Metal never died or went anywhere. It is far superior to those fads of the late '70's. I'm priveleged to have grown up in that late '70's/early '80's era which was definately interesting. In the major media, metal took a back seat to the aforementioned fads. But thank goodness there were independent metal labels and magazines to spread the word. The NWOBHM was a godsend for me, as that was a time when Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Rainbow, and Kiss, were falling out of the spotlight. I stood strong as a true heard rock/heavy metal fan, and didn't care what anyone said about metal back then. Three of the biggest metal albums were released in 1980 - "Heaven and Hell', "Back in Black", and British Steel", so there was NO WAY metal was dying out, and there was no way punk had any fortitude to withstand REAL MUSIC.

Punk had the press on their side, and it was sickening back then to read about it. The press will jump on anything that moves, whether it has a solid basis or not. There wasn't anything solid about punk. It was born to die, and it did, although the disgusting grunge movement of the early 1990's tried to revive it. Hmmm, grunge died to, thank God..... another fad born to die.......

Heavy metal/hard rock is not a fad, and never will be.

Punk was an embarrassment to rock music, and gladly it died. I hated it it with a passion that still runs in me today.

I went from Aerosmith, Kiss, Rainbow, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Boston, AC/DC, Triumph, etc.. to the NWOBHM, to Loudness, Anvil, Manowar, Accept, etc...and by then, Metal was going to rules the 1980's (definately not trendy punk, disco, or new wave).

Punk - what a laugh.....the most stupid form of "rock" music there ever was. No talent idiots fooling thousands of people with no-talent dance garbage.

I laugh at punk and spit upon it, and always will.

Hard rock and heavy metal will always rule,a dn has NEVER been a fad. It's been around since the late 1960's, and it's still around in 2011.

Punk is dead and gone, and if it was still alive, I would kill it myself, once and for all.

HEAVY METAL RULES !!!

So, don't anyone tell me about a so-called punk/metal relationship. It doesn't exist.

Too bad we didn't kill rap/hiphop like we killed disco, new wave, and punk.

Written by Metallian63 on 29.10.2011 at 10:17

I'm almost 48 years old, so it's obvious that the mid '70s'-early '80s era was special to me and heavy metal. I laughed and ridiculed punk, new wave, and disco, as talentless "music" that I hoped would die soon, and thank God they did die, but Heavy Metal lives on, as we can surely see as this is 2011. Heavy Metal never died or went anywhere. It is far superior to those fads of the late '70's. I'm priveleged to have grown up in that late '70's/early '80's era which was definately interesting. In the major media, metal took a back seat to the aforementioned fads. But thank goodness there were independent metal labels and magazines to spread the word. The NWOBHM was a godsend for me, as that was a time when Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Rainbow, and Kiss, were falling out of the spotlight. I stood strong as a true heard rock/heavy metal fan, and didn't care what anyone said about metal back then. Three of the biggest metal albums were released in 1980 - "Heaven and Hell', "Back in Black", and British Steel", so there was NO WAY metal was dying out, and there was no way punk had any fortitude to withstand REAL MUSIC.

Punk had the press on their side, and it was sickening back then to read about it. The press will jump on anything that moves, whether it has a solid basis or not. There wasn't anything solid about punk. It was born to die, and it did, although the disgusting grunge movement of the early 1990's tried to revive it. Hmmm, grunge died to, thank God..... another fad born to die.......

Heavy metal/hard rock is not a fad, and never will be.

Punk was an embarrassment to rock music, and gladly it died. I hated it it with a passion that still runs in me today.

I went from Aerosmith, Kiss, Rainbow, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Boston, AC/DC, Triumph, etc.. to the NWOBHM, to Loudness, Anvil, Manowar, Accept, etc...and by then, Metal was going to rules the 1980's (definately not trendy punk, disco, or new wave).

Punk - what a laugh.....the most stupid form of "rock" music there ever was. No talent idiots fooling thousands of people with no-talent dance garbage.

I laugh at punk and spit upon it, and always will.

Hard rock and heavy metal will always rule,a dn has NEVER been a fad. It's been around since the late 1960's, and it's still around in 2011.

Punk is dead and gone, and if it was still alive, I would kill it myself, once and for all.

HEAVY METAL RULES !!!

So, don't anyone tell me about a so-called punk/metal relationship. It doesn't exist.

Too bad we didn't kill rap/hiphop like we killed disco, new wave, and punk.

You sure you're 48? Because don't really sound like you've got a single clue what you're talking about...

Punk isn't exactly dead. At all.

Here, have a Makarov.



Go kill it.

Written by Metallian63 on 29.10.2011 at 10:17


So, don't anyone tell me about a so-called punk/metal relationship. It doesn't exist.

Really? I could have sworn punk was a major influence on early thrash, which gave birth to black and death.

But then again, you're 48, I'm only 17, making you right by default.

Written by Slayer666 on 29.10.2011 at 13:54

Written by Metallian63 on 29.10.2011 at 10:17


So, don't anyone tell me about a so-called punk/metal relationship. It doesn't exist.

Really? I could have sworn punk was a major influence on early thrash, which gave birth to black and death.

But then again, you're 48, I'm only 17, making you right by default.

Swedish death metal has a lot of D-beat punk influences in it, so there's even a direct link there. And black metal also has a lot of punk influences in it. Hell even early Iron Maiden had punk influences in it

Written by Doc G. on 29.10.2011 at 11:22
You sure you're 48?

In ANUS years maybe.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 29.10.2011 at 13:56

Written by Slayer666 on 29.10.2011 at 13:54

Written by Metallian63 on 29.10.2011 at 10:17

Hell even early Iron Maiden had punk influences in it

I am in no way aligning myself with that fool Mr. 48 and anti-punk, I don't particularly care for punk myself but I certainly respect it and it's contributions and influences on the extreme metal genre and this is exactly why I don't care for the first 2 Maiden albums before Bruce joined because there was too much punk in the music for my blood. BitterCOld I may have over exaggerated on the 50 years, what that was supposed to say [and the meat of the message I did post anyway] was that punk has been influencing metal for a very long time, almost from the very beginning...

It's ok psykometal, I think anything us younin's say here will get picked apart by bittercold and marcel lol. As much as I like them both, they have ways of making us all feel like noobs on any subject matter ever. ;(

Going back to my lurking status and not posting again until Varg dies or Black Sabbath reunion with ozzy lol. ;p

Written by Crème fraiche on 30.10.2011 at 07:25

It's ok psykometal, I think anything us younin's say here will get picked apart by bittercold and marcel lol. As much as I like them both, they have ways of making us all feel like noobs on any subject matter ever. ;(

Going back to my lurking status and not posting again until Varg dies or Black Sabbath reunion with ozzy lol. ;p

it's not the intent. but you chimed in saying "i hate to be 'that guy' but... " - thus opening your statement up to be weighed as if you were some authority.

you said Black Flag was not a punk band, but hardcore. that is incorrect. hardcore is a derivative of punk, just as thrash is metal. so saying Black Flag is punk band is as correct as saying Slayer is a metal band.

sorry, but i hate "that guy", and if "that guy" is wrong, i have no qualms calling "that guy" on it.


funny that a guy who nitpicked someone else's post is going lurker mode because i had the audacity to nitpick his nitpick.

Written by Metallian63 on 29.10.2011 at 10:17

I'm almost 48 minutes old.

Fixed for accuracy.

I am amazed by all the ignorants who just don't like punk and flame it for no apparent reasons. Yes accept it or not, punk influenced metal and metal influenced punk later on. I mean you can't deny it no matter how hard you hate punk. Im not a huge fan of punk myself but still it doesn't mean its not music... is there instruments ? melodies ? sound ? lyrics and singing ? is there a band behind it all playing and people recording albums and doing shows oh wait yes ?? then its music buddy... like it or not

Now are they friend or foes bleh who cares, what I do know is that in fests and small shows around here they usually get along pretty well and play on the same stage, the Montebello Rockfest near my town occurs every year and its a fest dedicated to Metal and Punk... with both crew and bands of all sorts in those two genres playing along during the whole week-end and usually theres not that many fights like some said between the two crowd... so I believe it tends to be more friends than foes... but you know theres extremists on both sides who just want to fight on stupid things and details like this, music is music just let it be man.

Written by Metallian63 on 29.10.2011 at 10:17


So, don't anyone tell me about a so-called punk/metal relationship. It doesn't exist.

Too bad we didn't kill rap/hiphop like we killed disco, new wave, and punk.

Hm, sounds like your grudge against punk is more personal than anything... Not to mention your distaste for "rap/hiphop". I think you have yet to find some good punk and rap that I think would change your mind.

Written by rekkuza- on 30.10.2011 at 18:05
I think you have yet to find some good punk and rap that I think would change your mind.

Some people refuse to believe in such things, sadly.

Well for me, punks = friends

Written by Metallian63 on 29.10.2011 at 10:17

so there was NO WAY metal was dying out, and there was no way punk had any fortitude to withstand REAL MUSIC....

....[punk] was born to die, and it did, although the disgusting grunge movement of the early 1990's tried to revive it. Hmmm, grunge died to, thank God..... another fad born to die.......

...Heavy metal/hard rock is not a fad, and never will be.....

...Hard rock and heavy metal will always rule,a dn has NEVER been a fad. It's been around since the late 1960's, and it's still around in 2011.....

...Punk is dead and gone, and if it was still alive, I would kill it myself, once and for all. ...

HEAVY METAL RULES !!!

So, don't anyone tell me about a so-called punk/metal relationship. It doesn't exist.

Too bad we didn't kill rap/hiphop like we killed disco, new wave, and punk.

You sound like that tenacious D song about how you can't "kill the metal!" lol

Written by Crème fraiche on 31.10.2011 at 06:29

Well for me, punks = friends

Yea, I have some punk friends too. \m/

Written by Crème fraiche on 31.10.2011 at 06:29

Well for me, punks = friends

Same here man.

Written by [user id=115824] on 01.11.2011 at 19:21



Same here man.

put those beers away mister!

I love both genres. I started listening to them both around the same time. I just wanted hard music. I think because I was never really around others into either genre I never cared about any feud.

I would guess that a lot of the feud has to do with fashion, as lame as that sounds. The couple of "punks" that I saw in high school were rich kid tards who mostly cared about putting glue in their hair. It was always a competition to be the most extreme. Maybe the scenes at large felt like they were competing with each other to be more rebellious. To show that they represented the angstiest part of society.

Reminds me of Alice Cooper calling out all the black metal artists that wanted to "out evil" each other. Then bands like Immortal almost parody the entire scene, mock the process, and nobody knows the difference.

Sure, punks are no different when it comes to their rebellious fashion. How high they can gel their liberty spikes and how many holes they can cut into their denim vests. It's all part of the gimmick, and it's not limited to metal or punk.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 02.11.2011 at 09:22

and it's not limited to metal or punk.

That's no joke. Look at non-metal/punk artists like Lil Kim and Lady Gaga...

The relationship is friendly, I think, even though the two genres might not be the best of mates. The elitists will say that their respective genre is sworn to combat the other, but there's not really anything to it. Lots of times, punk and metal capture the same spirit. I can enjoy both. Not to mention the fact that punk was really influential to the formation of thrash. Still, I think that in general, metal takes a lot more talent to make.

I personally have a love/hate relationship with punk music. While I don't personally care for the genre itself, I hated how Punk music essentially made people abandon Progressive Rock music earlier in the 1970s, but at the same time it influenced Post-Black Sabbath metal to become heavier and faster than before, and also inspiring the more experimental and interesting Post-Punk genre in the 1980s (something I have to thank The Clash for). For metal itself, I would say Punk is more of a friend. Without Punk, no NWOBHM, and nothing more extreme than Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin even to this day. I hate it for taking the spotlight away from prog, but respect it for influencing metal even further (even if I don't care for punk music itself).

I love punk music. Especially the more "extreme" versions. Crust, D-beat, Grind...it's all amazing to me. I especially love the super political and thought provoking shit.

A lot of thrash bands and hardcore bands share political ideals...and if you look at the metal musician community and see how many of them cite D-beat and hardcore bands as influence, I think that alone speaks volumes for how chummy the two genres are.

They make better friends than enemies.

Grindcore. It's punk, it's metal, it's awesome. The beauty of punk is the not give a shit attitude an intense wielding of ignorance violently. Just taking up a cause and being passionate about it to be passionate about it. I'm not saying punk artists are dumb (some are), but that antiestablishment ferocity just appeals to some animal instinct that lurks within everyone. It's freeing to just say fuck the system. Forget rules, forget logic, forget everything holding me back. Everyone feels that way at some point.

I think the metal ideology is a little more complex, but the two don't clash. As far as fans go, observing the punk attitude from the outside, it can become a little annoying. But it's not like the violent melancholy of metalheads looks so appealing objectively either. Perhaps this is where turbulence between the two has stemmed from.

I come from a metal background, but have a lot of respect for punk's primal power. I also love grindcore.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 29.10.2011 at 13:56

Swedish death metal has a lot of D-beat punk influences in it, so there's even a direct link there. And black metal also has a lot of punk influences in it. Hell even early Iron Maiden had punk influences in it

I remember liking a song cover of a rock/punk band by In Flames on The Clayman, would be looking more for the Swedish rock/punk scene but though it was very rare for me.

I like fake pop punk like Green Day and Blink 182, but "real punk" like The Sex Pistols and The Ramones are pretty boring to me. The whole punk mindset of "rebelling against the mainstream and conformity" by dressing alike and getting angry at people who don't follow the strict scene rules is pretty silly also. But as far as any "feud" goes, whatever feuds there ever were in the past don't exist anymore.

Since metal and punk have an intertwined history when it comes to the genres crossing paths either musically or ideologically in various genres (i.e. hardcore, crossover, black metal, crust, grindcore), so I understand how fans who only like one genre or the other may not appreciate the sonic aspect of the other or acts that fall in the middle - no one has to like everything - but I don't understand why it would cause fights. Music is a rather trivial thing to really dislike someone for liking.

Written by helofloki on 09.10.2012 at 07:07

I also love grindcore.

I love how you ended this haha, i do love grindcore as well though, and you do make a valid point in that metal seems to have a more complex version of "stick it to the man" ideals than punk does. But that doesnt mean they havent crossed paths, because they obviously have.