Written by Metren on 17.05.2020 at 18:15

I listened to this for the first time a few days ago while waiting for their latest. As a Paradise Lost noob I assumed this would be a good place to start given that it is their highest rated album here, but unfortunately this album did absolutely nothing for me. Rarely, if ever before have I been so unmoved by an album with such a high rating. I'm almost tempted to give this a 6/10, but I think I will give it a few more listens first before rating it. After all, some say it is a grower-type album.

Wow, that's a bold statement.
But many thanks for this comment, you cannot believe how much I can relate to your words.

Having stumbled upon their debut in 1990 I wouldn't call myself a Paradise Lost noob, but I still remember that I felt like a total noob to the direction they had taken with this album.
I simply adored Lost Paradise and Gothic for countless reasons, I learned to accept Shades Of God for what it was (an inbetweener) and I could even make my peace with Icon for "True Belief" was such a great hymn and as they truly deserved all the sudden media fuss. But I could never bear more than five consecutive minutes of this.
My first encounter with Draconian Times was a crucial event. Sunday night, Vanessa Warwick, MTV Headbangers Ball and the video of their first single "The Last Time": five mid-twenties in tight leather jeans posing in a puddle of water like f#cken wannabe rockstars. The irritating "Hearts beating... for the last time"-refrain and the dullness of this song literally terrified me.
From one moment to the next my most favorite band didn't exist anymore. Each band member replaced by a kitschy plastic doll to cast in a plastic video. Kidnapped by aliens. Dead and gone.

The most disappointing and frustrating album of my life - here it is.

And you will have to bury me in shit, drown me in diarrhea and pull each of my toenails to hear me ever saying that this is a grower.

Nice bibble story man, i had same old days not even 19 when metal was about long hair and letter, nu and modern metal was shit, year when st anger came, and I hated it. I remember i hated this band in disco era, i dislike this as well. I had hard accept Come back to roots album then. In mid 20s i re listened this and its good. I love it first 5 are an awesome albums,

Written by Starvynth on 17.05.2020 at 23:32

Written by Metren on 17.05.2020 at 18:15

I listened to this for the first time a few days ago while waiting for their latest. As a Paradise Lost noob I assumed this would be a good place to start given that it is their highest rated album here, but unfortunately this album did absolutely nothing for me. Rarely, if ever before have I been so unmoved by an album with such a high rating. I'm almost tempted to give this a 6/10, but I think I will give it a few more listens first before rating it. After all, some say it is a grower-type album.

Wow, that's a bold statement.
But many thanks for this comment, you cannot believe how much I can relate to your words.

Having stumbled upon their debut in 1990 I wouldn't call myself a Paradise Lost noob, but I still remember that I felt like a total noob to the direction they had taken with this album.
I simply adored Lost Paradise and Gothic for countless reasons, I learned to accept Shades Of God for what it was (an inbetweener) and I could even make my peace with Icon for "True Belief" was such a great hymn and as they truly deserved all the sudden media fuss. But I could never bear more than five consecutive minutes of this.
My first encounter with Draconian Times was a crucial event. Sunday night, Vanessa Warwick, MTV Headbangers Ball and the video of their first single "The Last Time": five mid-twenties in tight leather jeans posing in a puddle of water like f#cken wannabe rockstars. The irritating "Hearts beating... for the last time"-refrain and the dullness of this song literally terrified my.
From one moment to the next my most favorite band didn't exist anymore. Each band member replaced by a kitschy plastic doll to cast in a plastic video. Kidnapped by aliens. Dead and gone.

The most disappointing and frustrating album of my life - here it is.

And you will have to bury me in shit, drown me in diarrhea and pull each of my toenails to hear me ever saying that this is a grower.

The video for The Last Time is terrible, OMG
I rarely watched Headbangers Ball back then and by 1995 there were already plenty of bands i disliked on there, but that's another story.

I was kinda disappointed by Draconian Times as well, it was inferior to Icon (which to this day remains a favorite of mine). Songs on DT were much simpler, straightforward, catchier. I guess they wanted a bigger audience, I don't know... I still liked the album, but it was a step down compared to Icon.
I am also surprised DT has a higher rating that Icon here on MS.
I remember people laughing at Holmes trying to sound like Hetfield. I don't know if it was intentional, but people were thinking of it.

I think I had stopped watching Headbangers Ball by 1995 too, both the show and MTV in general had already become a joke by then. Also, the internet had just started, it was ridiculously slow but it was there. Draconian Times was indeed an effort of the band to become more 'commercial' but they still had great songs, something that they sorely missed on One Second and everything that came after it up until In Requiem. I love "Hearts Beating" (I never refer to it as "The Last Time") even though the video is shockingly ridiculous. Side A of this album is the best PL have had in any of their albums imo and I think the LP as a whole is on par with Icon, neither better nor worse (definitely different though). And yes, Nick sounds a bit like Hetfield.

Written by JoHn Doe on 18.05.2020 at 11:52

I was kinda disappointed by Draconian Times as well, it was inferior to Icon (which to this day remains a favorite of mine). Songs on DT were much simpler, straightforward, catchier. I guess they wanted a bigger audience, I don't know... I still liked the album, but it was a step down compared to Icon.

That is more or less how I felt about the two albums back at the time.
Nothing on DT reaches the excellence of True Belief, Embers Fire, Joys of Emptiness or Remembrance.

Written by Starvynth on 17.05.2020 at 23:32

Sunday night, Vanessa Warwick, MTV Headbangers Ball and the video of their first single "The Last Time": five mid-twenties in tight leather jeans posing in a puddle of water like f#cken wannabe rockstars.
And you will have to bury me in shit, drown me in diarrhea and pull each of my toenails to hear me ever saying that this is a grower.

Yeah, Headbanger's Ball already sucked back in 1995, but Vanessa Warwick was still worth it, she was great.
DT a grower? Not for me.

Written by nikarg on 18.05.2020 at 12:53

I think I had stopped watching Headbangers Ball by 1995 too, both the show and MTV in general had already become a joke by then. Also, the internet had just started, it was ridiculously slow but it was there. Draconian Times was indeed an effort of the band to become more 'commercial' but they still had great songs, something that they sorely missed on One Second and everything that came after it up until In Requiem. I love "Hearts Beating" (I never refer to it as "The Last Time") even though the video is shockingly ridiculous. Side A of this album is the best PL have had in any of their albums imo and I think the LP as a whole is on par with Icon, neither better nor worse (definitely different though). And yes, Nick sounds a bit like Hetfield.

I was boern 1985 AC man, so I hardly rememeber MTV I know HB and B n B , I did watch thoise original, but it was joke. I have seen videos what once was on MTV, I stopped listen music beck then from 1995-1998 when I get tapes, bootlegs and so on, and Paradise Lost was one of firts bands I ever dug, same firts CD I bought was Eos The spectral sorrows. I start use i net in 2003 for metal, MS, MA and I tuck 99% metal I found because of net, well .... even mid 90's shit I re DIUSCOVER , I heard many good shit but it was bootleg tapes and so on.

I love all PL albums, firts 5 special and all after disco era I like to, good band,

My uncles on one side of the family were big into metal in their teens and obtained a lot of casettes from local bands and these dubious semi-original copies (I still don't know if Eurocasette or whatever it was called was a legit thing haha ), but they had one genuine original tape with all its booklets, and it was this record. This was the first time I heard them at like 13 years old or something. Still feels special, although I come to see its shortcomings and hearing some of its predecessors I can see that it takes less risks.

Written by Metren on 17.05.2020 at 18:15

I listened to this for the first time a few days ago while waiting for their latest. As a Paradise Lost noob I assumed this would be a good place to start given that it is their highest rated album here, but unfortunately this album did absolutely nothing for me. Rarely, if ever before have I been so unmoved by an album with such a high rating. I'm almost tempted to give this a 6/10, but I think I will give it a few more listens first before rating it. After all, some say it is a grower-type album.

Look at the date of the album, see how old it is? I think that's what it is. Some people listened to this when there was nothing comparable to it at all, if you have listened to this 20 years ago, this was sounding defo something else.

I really liked this, but it never achieves too much of a climax, some of the ideas are underdeveloped like they needed to make the songs shorter to be commercially viable, and it kinda ruins some of them. I want to chime as well on Last Time, by far the worst song here xD, the chorus sounds cliché rock and its kinda irritating. There is some really quality stuff here though, like Forever Failure, Yearn for change, and my favorite; Hallowed Land.

Written by Metren on 17.05.2020 at 18:15

I listened to this for the first time a few days ago while waiting for their latest. As a Paradise Lost noob I assumed this would be a good place to start given that it is their highest rated album here, but unfortunately this album did absolutely nothing for me. Rarely, if ever before have I been so unmoved by an album with such a high rating. I'm almost tempted to give this a 6/10, but I think I will give it a few more listens first before rating it. After all, some say it is a grower-type album.

I gotta agree on all points. I did go into it expecting something a little more..."intense". I'm going to give it several more listens before I put a final rating on it as well because I was completely underwhelmed and...well...curious...as in "how the heck can this be rated so high"

Complex music tends to grow on me over time though, so back to the drawing...er...listening board...

In my metal addict life, I have been comming back to this album over and over to see if now I like it... I don't, I think I never will... I can respect any opinion about this; my opinion: Overrated. I won't say piece of shit, because I'm still intrigued about all the love this record gets, and I hope some day I figure it out... but for now... I can't ... I just can't... One of the worst albums I've listened, and for me, certainly the worst Paradise Lost album...

I don't get it. This is classified as "death doom", yet it is more like gothic rock with shades of Metallica's s/t album.

Written by sgtrobo on 15.11.2020 at 20:41

I don't get it. This is classified as "death doom", yet it is more like gothic rock with shades of Metallica's s/t album.

it says "gothic metal, doom metal" in the album description.

Written by JoHn Doe on 15.11.2020 at 21:23

Written by sgtrobo on 15.11.2020 at 20:41

I don't get it. This is classified as "death doom", yet it is more like gothic rock with shades of Metallica's s/t album.

it says "gothic metal, doom metal" in the album description.

Apparently, someone has just changed the style. "Death doom" has admittedly always been utter nonsense.

Written by JoHn Doe on 15.11.2020 at 21:23

Written by sgtrobo on 15.11.2020 at 20:41

I don't get it. This is classified as "death doom", yet it is more like gothic rock with shades of Metallica's s/t album.

it says "gothic metal, doom metal" in the album description.

so it does...my altzheimer's must be getting the best of me.

EDIT - ah, Obsidian has death doom listed. Definitely my altzheimer's acting up. *facepalm self*

Written by sgtrobo on 15.11.2020 at 21:35

so it does...my altzheimer's must be getting the best of me.

EDIT - ah, Obsidian has death doom listed. Definitely my altzheimer's acting up. *facepalm self*

I don't know shit about your Alzheimer's progress, but in this particular case it was not your mind but the database playing tricks on you. I can assure you that the album's genre got corrected just a few minutes after your first post.


PS, you may remember that you still owe me 50 bucks?

Written by Starvynth on 18.11.2020 at 23:16

Written by sgtrobo on 15.11.2020 at 21:35

so it does...my altzheimer's must be getting the best of me.

EDIT - ah, Obsidian has death doom listed. Definitely my altzheimer's acting up. *facepalm self*

I don't know shit about your Alzheimer's progress, but in this particular case it was not your mind but the database playing tricks on you. I can assure you that the album's genre got corrected just a few minutes after your first post.


PS, you may remember that you still owe me 50 bucks?

thank you, I thought for sure it said death/doom initially!

So....I owe you $50 eh....ok lemme write you a check

This is an album I revisit alot, I find it very uplifting and it has a lot of emotion and meaningful lyrics, with some beautiful melodies too.

I especially like the first three tracks, they are amongst the best I've heard by PL, I find the album starts off fantastic with the first three songs but the rest of the album is a little less impressive, but still no real bad tracks, making it a great record.

Yeah those first three songs are incredible

Don't ask me how but I got that catchy riff of "Hallowed Land" stuck in my head despite not hearing (or thinking of) the song for two months. Weird.
Well, I just went on a listening spree through all the Gothic and prog albums I know (I had a feeling that riff was from an Amorphis or a Moonspell song). Luckily I found it - it was driving me nuts not knowing where I had heard it - turns out I've got to listen to some Paradise Lost again because this riff is awesome!

Will always stay their best

Can't get past the Hetfield vocals.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 16.02.2024 at 16:18

Can't get past the Hetfield vocals.

Same. I got into Paradise Lost through their recent stuff, so hearing the older albums with the Hetfield vocals threw me for a loop. I wouldn't call them "bad", but they'll definitely take some getting used to.

Written by Frasier Crane on 01.06.2024 at 16:13

Written by Boxcar Willy on 16.02.2024 at 16:18

Can't get past the Hetfield vocals.

Same. I got into Paradise Lost through their recent stuff, so hearing the older albums with the Hetfield vocals threw me for a loop. I wouldn't call them "bad", but they'll definitely take some getting used to.

I don't think Nick was even trying to imitate James Hetfield. Is there proof that he did?!

Written by JoHn Doe on 01.06.2024 at 16:27

I don't think Nick was even trying to imitate James Hetfield. Is there proof that he did?!

He's not directly trying to emulate Hetfield, it just sounds that way.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 04.06.2024 at 15:26

Written by JoHn Doe on 01.06.2024 at 16:27

I don't think Nick was even trying to imitate James Hetfield. Is there proof that he did?!

He's not directly trying to emulate Hetfield, it just sounds that way.

OK, got it.

Funny I was just listening to it this week and yeah, the Hetfield vocals are a bit too much for me.