Well. Enough is enough.
I am weary of seeing people suggesting Progressive Rock bands from the seventies such as Yes, Pink Floyd and the like, because other bands such as Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Ac-Dc or Guns and Roses are already here.
Alright. I don't think that this is just my opinion, but a fact. Hard Rock is Metal. The term "heavy metal" was born to refer to some addictive drugs by some book author. I found this in wikipedia about its introduction inside a musical context: "The first documented uses of the phrase to describe a type of rock music are from reviews by critic Mike Saunders. In the November 12, 1970, issue of Rolling Stone, he commented on an album put out the previous year by the British band Humble Pie: "Safe As Yesterday Is, their first American release, proved that Humble Pie could be boring in lots of different ways. Here they were a noisy, unmelodic, heavy metal-leaden shit-rock band with the loud and noisy parts beyond doubt. There were a couple of nice songs...and one monumental pile of refuse." He described the band's latest, self-titled release as "more of the same 27th-rate heavy metal crap." In a review of Sir Lord Baltimore's Kingdom Come in the May 1971 Creem, Saunders wrote, "Sir Lord Baltimore seems to have down pat most all the best heavy metal tricks in the book." Creem critic Lester Bangs is credited with popularizing the term via his early 1970s essays on bands such as Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. Through the decade, heavy metal was used by certain critics as a virtually automatic putdown. In 1979, lead New York Times popular music critic John Rockwell described what he called "heavy-metal rock" as "brutally aggressive music played mostly for minds clouded by drugs," and, in a different article, as "a crude exaggeration of rock basics that appeals to white teenagers."

The terms "heavy metal" and "hard rock" have often been used interchangeably, particularly in discussing bands of the 1970s, a period when the terms were largely synonymous""

Hard Rock was born when some members of a band that used to play Rhythm and Blues named Yardbirds started playing something else. They realised that that music was not just Rock or Blues, but a brand new thing and that band became "Led Zeppelin" releasing their debut in January 1969. That was the origin of Hard Rock and the metal scene.
Metalheads are a tribe and whether you like Ac-Dc, Children of Bodom, Judas Priest, Exodus, Candlemass or Nile we are a people with quite similar dressing and hair style, with many similarities as regards religion, social issues, favourite kind of movies and books... because we all love a kind of music that produce dislike to other people. So my theory is that we got more neurons than the rest of the people. JOKE. LOL, but, anyways, we got something different, we are different.
My point is that this thing that makes us different is what triggers these thoughts and this like for this marvellous music...THAT IS THE METAL WAY, the metal scene, that makes us Metallers, Metalheads, Metaleiros, Gebis or whatever the name and genres as Hard Rock, Glam, Groove...belong to it, because their supporters are people like us with the same thoughts, styles and...-LOL- huge amounts of neurons. Somebody even pointed out that a Psychodelic band should be here, because Black Sabbath is here and they are not metal...that was the last straw for me. If Black Sabbath do not belong to the metal scene, which fucking band does?. Is "Children of the grave" Hard Rock, Blues, Psychodelic?...However, I can understand that genres as Black and Death Metal have become quite aggressive, so their fans consider Zeppelin, Purple and these bands as we consider Bob Dylan, The Doors or Slade, because the gap between Hard Rock and, for instance, Extreme Death Metal is enormous, as any other music style will ever has...that makes this music even more awesomely magic.

Do not forget that Metal is also Hard Rock, Glam, Power...not just Heavy, Thrash, Black, Death

Hard Rock was the bassis of metal. To me there was a continuum in the late 60s and early 70s which lead to the creation of Heavy Metal. Bands like Steppenwolf, Hendrix and others of the psychedelic movement made heavier music with outstanding guitar solos. This then became a movement. After a couple of years Hard Rock was born. Now contrary to the opinion of some, I do not believe that Led Zeppelin or Sabbath (in their early days) were metal at all. Zeppelin simply introduced a heavier way of playing, whilst Sabbath introduced darker themes. These darker themes were then picked up by other bands, like Blue Oyster Cult... In the mid-70s Priest, Motorhead, AC/DC and to some extent, Queen, took the style one step further. Neither was heavy metal. Just harder versions of the previous hard rock bands. In the late 70s, the punk movement played a major role in the development of metal. Metal was spawned at the end of the 70s and early 80s. Metal as we know it today is born from a progression of heavier and heavier music:

Blues Rock - Hard Rock - Heavy Metal - Thrash Metal - Death and Black Metal....

I don't believe that all blues rock/hard rock bands should be featured on the site but I do believe that the most important should be: ZZ Top, Aerosmith, Thin Lizzy, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Blue Oyster Cult, Led Zeppelin, AC/DC... The reason is simple, if you ask early metal bands to state their influences, many of these bands will pop up among them. Another reason is that these bands often participate and headline major metal fests such as Wacken or Graspop.

Me neither. Zeppelin always played hard rock and Black Sabbath has made mainly hard rock leaving aside some songs as "Neon Knights" or "Children of the Grave". This last song IMO marked the stereotype of the typical heavy metal song structuring.

My point has never been that all these bands play heavy metal. They never did -except some songs by Iommi and co.-. My point is that Hard Rock is a subgenre of Metal -Heavy Metal is another subgenre of this music we all love-, so it is part of the Metal scene, not a influence for Metal music style. I hope that you all get my point. Then I can compare Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath with Queen, The Doors or Pink Floyd. They are or were in another, let's say, league... Just imagine any of these bands closing a metal show. Do you imagine Pink Floyd? The Doors? Queen?. Zeppelin, Sabbath, Ac-Dc and the whole bit as usually the main plate in metal festivals...why?. Because they play Hard Rock, because they are metal.

Written by Haddonfield on 26.05.2009 at 12:23

I do not believe that Led Zeppelin or Sabbath (in their early days) were metal at all. Zeppelin simply introduced a heavier way of playing, whilst Sabbath introduced darker themes. These darker themes were then picked up by other bands, like Blue Oyster Cult... In the mid-70s Priest, Motorhead, AC/DC and to some extent, Queen, took the style one step further. Neither was heavy metal.

I think Hard Rock and Metal are two different things altogether. It's like thriller and horror in cinema, two distinct genres but they seem to entwine.

We are talking about two different styles that do overlap in many cases. There have been hard rock bands that composed heavy metal songs and vice versa. "Labeling" has always been a quite complex and tricky practice within the music industry.
Especially in the 1970's there was plenty of experimentation among musicians (some nice examples were mentioned above in this thread) plus new technologies and the studio in itself being used as an instrument (credit for this goes to The Beatles of course who were the first to explore the possibilities of the studio).
Today we can spot the different styles & sub-genres more easily. But then times it was a different story....

I think it's the other way around. Metal is hard rock.

I don't understand why everyone takes genre "labeling" so seriously. Personally, I find it useful only because it keeps things organized and makes it easier for people to develop their taste in music. Plus it's nice to help chronicle the development of modern music. Otherwise, I would never get in an argument regarding what genre a band belongs or which bands belong on this site. I LOVE this site, but honestly I feel that the name of the site and the obsession to include bands within the "genre" damaging to its development. I always found it funny to include a band like Porcupine Tree and not to include Pink Floyd, a band which has such a predominant influence on so many similar Progressive Rock and even Progressive Metal acts included on the site. I mean, just look at some of the profiles and see how many people have Pink Floyd among their favorite bands. Pink Floyd has been massively influencial on metal, and yet this site refuses to include them because they don't sound metal.

I know I'm not exactly on topic here, but it's the same premise. Most people need to get their eyes off of the labels and focus their ears on the music instead.

First of all, there is way too much examination going into this "who should and who should not be given recognition on this website." However, I will agree that the bands that create a sound that is comprised of Hard Rock do not have a complete profile on Metal Storm, and that is how it should be. Bands that are not Metal bands do not completely fit the image of Metal Storm, but a large number of these bands that are identified, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, et cetera, have a tremendous impact on the members of the website. It is safe to say that a majority of members are musicians, therefore, people like Jimmy Page and David Gilmour played some role in introducing them to making Metal, at least they had that effect on me when I was growing up. In that sense, bands like The Yardbirds, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and others should be able to be identified by the members of Metal Storm, if the members decide to do so.

Written by Charly546 on 26.05.2009 at 17:55
I think it's the other way around. Metal is hard rock.

I agree. I believe that Hard Rock is a mathematical eqüation, like that: Hard x Rock = Metal.
Is always good to remember that Hard Rock full name is Hard Rock N' Roll, wich means it's a harder/heavier way of playing Rock; like Punk Rock full name is Punk Rock N' Roll, and it is an faster/agressiver way of Rock.

If you listen to early Motörhead, or AC/DC, you'll see they're trying to play the 2nd generation of Rock N' Roll (Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Beach Boys...), wich is heavier/faster then the 1st (Chucky Berry, Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis...). And this is how Hard Rock/Metal was born.
Following that line of thinking every time you see Metal you can understand it as Hard Rock, so Thrash Metal = Thrash Hard Rock; Heavy Metal = Heavy Hard Rock N' Roll....
So Extreme Metal is a subgenre of Heavy Metal, that is a subgenre of Metal, that is Hard Rock, that is a subgenre of Rock N' Roll.

So i think that all Metal bands should have a profile here. Wich means all Hard Rock Bands should have a profile here!

That's how I understand it.

Written by O Sinistron on 30.05.2009 at 22:37

If you listen to early Motörhead, or AC/DC, you'll see they're trying to play the 2nd generation of Rock N' Roll (Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Beach Boys...)

And they were trying to play it in a faster, harder, heavier & agressiver way! Like most of the bands that time.
That's how Hard Rock/Metal was born!

@Yossarian, you seem to be preaching to the choir. Well you probably know my opinion on the topic.

Written by DayFly on 02.06.2009 at 21:09
@Yossarian, you seem to be preaching to the choir. Well you probably know my opinion on the topic.

What's your opinion on the topic!

<---------------- Biggest supporter of hard rock you'll ever meet.

Written by ColdasagravE on 29.05.2009 at 19:55

First of all, there is way too much examination going into this "who should and who should not be given recognition on this website." However, I will agree that the bands that create a sound that is comprised of Hard Rock do not have a complete profile on Metal Storm, and that is how it should be. Bands that are not Metal bands do not completely fit the image of Metal Storm, but a large number of these bands that are identified, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, et cetera, have a tremendous impact on the members of the website. It is safe to say that a majority of members are musicians, therefore, people like Jimmy Page and David Gilmour played some role in introducing them to making Metal, at least they had that effect on me when I was growing up. In that sense, bands like The Yardbirds, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and others should be able to be identified by the members of Metal Storm, if the members decide to do so.

You say that bands that have influenced metal, but are not metal themselves do not belong on the site but just talked about by the members. hmmm thats funny considering that this site has slipknot on band list, yet, there not metal. If i'm correct, which I am, they are in fact malcore. Which if you ask me, and other REAL metal heads do not consider metal. But I guess your happy with having bands that have helped create metal not on here, but instead place bands that haven't done anything for metal on here and calling them great. that just doesn't make sence to me.

Written by Deadpool on 09.06.2009 at 02:01

Written by ColdasagravE on 29.05.2009 at 19:55

First of all, there is way too much examination going into this "who should and who should not be given recognition on this website." However, I will agree that the bands that create a sound that is comprised of Hard Rock do not have a complete profile on Metal Storm, and that is how it should be. Bands that are not Metal bands do not completely fit the image of Metal Storm, but a large number of these bands that are identified, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, et cetera, have a tremendous impact on the members of the website. It is safe to say that a majority of members are musicians, therefore, people like Jimmy Page and David Gilmour played some role in introducing them to making Metal, at least they had that effect on me when I was growing up. In that sense, bands like The Yardbirds, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and others should be able to be identified by the members of Metal Storm, if the members decide to do so.

You say that bands that have influenced metal, but are not metal themselves do not belong on the site but just talked about by the members. hmmm thats funny considering that this site has slipknot on band list, yet, there not metal. If i'm correct, which I am, they are in fact malcore. Which if you ask me, and other REAL metal heads do not consider metal. But I guess your happy with having bands that have helped create metal not on here, but instead place bands that haven't done anything for metal on here and calling them great. that just doesn't make sence to me.

Anyone got a new facepalm picture?

1. Malcore is not a fucking genre. Its just a slander word against untr00 bands.
2. Slipknot is metal. Not very good I'll admit, but they're just not your type of metal. As much as you'd like, this site is run 100% on subjectivity.

Written by Doc G. on 09.06.2009 at 02:35

Anyone got a new facepalm picture?

1. Malcore is not a fucking genre. Its just a slander word against untr00 bands.
2. Slipknot is metal. Not very good I'll admit, but they're just not your type of metal. As much as you'd like, this site is run 100% on subjectivity.

because you asked for it.



(modified for the double)

Written by Doc G. on 09.06.2009 at 02:35

Written by Deadpool on 09.06.2009 at 02:01

Written by ColdasagravE on 29.05.2009 at 19:55

1. Malcore is not a fucking genre. Its just a slander word against untr00 bands.
2. Slipknot is metal. Not very good I'll admit, but they're just not your type of metal. As much as you'd like, this site is run 100% on subjectivity.

Im sorry, but I have to disagree. Slipknot is not metal. and you are right it's not my type of music, but please don't call it metal, It's not metal.

Does it really matter that much?
there may be a general consensus in which band belongs to which genre, but things like music (a form of art) is always subject to personal opinions.
As long as there's good music, I don't really mind too much as I only consider it as a general guideline.

Written by Deadpool on 10.06.2009 at 01:01

Written by Doc G. on 09.06.2009 at 02:35

Written by Deadpool on 09.06.2009 at 02:01

Written by ColdasagravE on 29.05.2009 at 19:55

1. Malcore is not a fucking genre. Its just a slander word against untr00 bands.
2. Slipknot is metal. Not very good I'll admit, but they're just not your type of metal. As much as you'd like, this site is run 100% on subjectivity.

Im sorry, but I have to disagree. Slipknot is not metal. and you are right it's not my type of music, but please don't call it metal, It's not metal.

Id like to know how they're not metal. Nu metal is a genre, whether you like it or not.

I'd say it's just another name for another sub-genre or style of metal, only that people tend to make big deal out of names, like someone said above. sure, hard-rock is metal, just as black metal is metal, and just as nu metal is metal. just sub-genres. and this is why i also agree with dr. rock here saying that Slipknot IS metal. it is! people liking it or not doesn't change that fact. it's like saying that Twilight isn't a vampirism book/movie simply because it crap and a lot of us people hate it

I have to agree that Korn isn't the greatest of bands. But still metal! So they they should be here!

Written by ColdasagravE on 29.05.2009 at 19:55
Bands that are not Metal bands do not completely fit the image of Metal Storm, but a large number of these bands that are identified, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, et cetera, have a tremendous impact on the members of the website.[...]In that sense, bands like The Yardbirds, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, and others should be able to be identified by the members of Metal Storm.

I also agree with Coldasgrave, the main impact bands, even not being Metal, should be on this site!
And I say more, ALL Hard Rock bands should be here too. Because Metal is Hard Rock.

Once again Led Zeppelin played Hard Rock=Metal. Pink Floyd played Progressive-pyschodelic-whateveryouwanttocallit rock=Rock. Capitze?

Written by Deadpool on 10.06.2009 at 01:01


Im sorry, but I have to disagree. Slipknot is not metal. and you are right it's not my type of music, but please don't call it metal, It's not metal.

Care to try and explain as to why it isn't metal? Cause it sure as hell has all the cahracteristics, musically, of metal. And NO I don't like the band at all. I hate them just as much as I hate Euro Glower Power metal and most female fronted symphonic metal bands.

Written by Deadpool on 10.06.2009 at 01:01


Im sorry, but I have to disagree. Slipknot is not metal. and you are right it's not my type of music, but please don't call it metal, It's not metal.

I like your nickname. I am a Marvel fan, though I prefer old comics from last 70's and 80's.

Well, I don't like Slipknot at all as well, but I have to agree with Marcel...Nu metal -though many metalheads despise- is globally considered as a part of the metal scene. I usually put Korn, S.O.A.D. aside my metal stuff and I play this music whenever I don't want to play Metal -few times really-, but there are apparently more people that feels the same whenever they are playing Nu or "Old"

Cheers man

It's because too many "true metalheads" have problems accepting any branch on the metal tree that they personally do not like.

were i as cementheaded as they are, Marcel's favorite Euroflowermetal would be called Euro Power Pop.

it's funny how something that is at least a little rough around the edges like Slipknot is referred to as "commercial", whereas sugarcoated stuff like Dragonforce is deemed "metal."

frankly, Slipknot is every bit the commercial, image-conscious product that Manowar is. the only difference is which market they focused on.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.06.2009 at 01:07

Written by Deadpool on 10.06.2009 at 01:01


Im sorry, but I have to disagree. Slipknot is not metal. and you are right it's not my type of music, but please don't call it metal, It's not metal.

Care to try and explain as to why it isn't metal? Cause it sure as hell has all the cahracteristics, musically, of metal. And NO I don't like the band at all. I hate them just as much as I hate Euro Glower Power metal and most female fronted symphonic metal bands.

first of all it has mainly a rap influence, granted it has more metal then most malcore bands. secondly it panders to the mainstream, which metal isn't about. Metal is more than music, it's a feeling, a state of being, and expressing yourself as an individual, not doing something because other people like it, but because you like it.

Written by Deadpool on 13.06.2009 at 07:25

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.06.2009 at 01:07

Written by Deadpool on 10.06.2009 at 01:01


Im sorry, but I have to disagree. Slipknot is not metal. and you are right it's not my type of music, but please don't call it metal, It's not metal.

Care to try and explain as to why it isn't metal? Cause it sure as hell has all the cahracteristics, musically, of metal. And NO I don't like the band at all. I hate them just as much as I hate Euro Glower Power metal and most female fronted symphonic metal bands.

first of all it has mainly a rap influence, granted it has more metal then most malcore bands. secondly it panders to the mainstream, which metal isn't about. Metal is more than music, it's a feeling, a state of being, and expressing yourself as an individual, not doing something because other people like it, but because you like it.

The last part is entirely subjective. You have no proof of backing that up, its simply spoken out of your distaste for the band. Secondly, metal bands bring in blues, jazz, classical and even on some occasion country influences, where is this rule written that hip hop can't be thrown in?

Metal is like any other form of music - it means different things to everybody. Perhaps thats what it means to you, but to other people, perhaps it means being part of something bigger than themselves, hence why they like following a popular band. Once you show me where the rule is written that metal is "about" what you say its about, then perhaps your posts will be taken seriously.

Also, a lot of metal panders to the mainstream. Lets be honest with ourselves here.

@Deadpool - Maiden had a number one hit in the UK, are they not metal?

@deadpool: so what if it had rap influence? by that i beleve you would also be saying that Anthrax's Bring the Noise sucks, and also Aerosmith's Walk this way (obviously the verison with run dmc). these songs made a lot of bands possible... i have to say i don't get that rap argument there. rap itself is also a huge musical genre with similar things as metal, such as mainstream bands/artists, and non-mainstream. it does the same things you say metal does.

Maiden used to be on MTV with alarming regularity back in the early 80s. fucking sellout bastards! by deadpool's standards, i guess they are no longer metal (which is doubly amusing giving Maidens best stuff was released during this period of time)

what is also amusing is Deadpool (or 6 as he changed his moniker to for a little bit) has erased his favorite bands. Where i live we have like 3 radio stations that play music with distortion - the alterna-channel, and two classic rocks stations. I had heard about 75% of his (formerly) listed favorites on said classic rock stations - which NEVER get louder/more aggressive than old Metallica. For all his "True Metalhead" self gloss, his tastes run fairly mainstream.

here in the US, Pantera hit number 1 on the charts with the release of Far Beyond Driven... their music only got LESS radio friendly between Cowboys From Hell through Far Beyond Driven so i don't see how chart success makes them sell-outs, which would theoretically reduce their true metal value.

chart success <> commercial success <> metal cred

Pantera topped the charts. Are they metal? (yes) Are they commercial? (no)

Slayer won a Grammy. Are they metal? (yes) Are they commercial? (no)

Manowar has never won a Grammy. Are they metal? (maybe) Are they commercial (no) Are they carefully, commercially constructed image? (yes)

Wolves in the Throne Room will never top the charts. Are they metal? (yes) Are they commercial? (no)

Sanjaya from American Idle will never move as many units as Slayer has, nor will he win a Grammy (Slayer has) - does that make him metal?


Golly, seems things are not entirely so cut and dried. Seems things are subjective. Imagine that, an artform is subjective.


the ultimate fact of the matter is the true individual will like whatever floats their boat regardless as to the commercial/kvlt status of the artist.

i like metal bands that are not particularly popular amongst metal fans. i like non-metal bands. i like bands that have straddled that divide. does that make me somehow less of a metalhead?