Decent, but nothing impressive.

Standard Kamelot. About as innovative and inoffensive as a Bon Jovi record.

Every Kamelot chorus just sounds the same now.

Written by Belegûr on 02.04.2015 at 14:15

Every Kamelot chorus just sounds the same now.

More like every song... standard Casey drumming with standard Youngblood guitar solo in the beginning... the arrangement differs a bit, but the beginning clearly brought me back to Sacrimony on the previous album. I hate to say this, but the band has found a formula and they seem like they can't escape from it, they just repeat it over and over again. Silverthorn was a clear sign, and I feel like this one won't stray from it either. And fuck those damn keyboard arrangements, I hate it when I do not hear guitars...

Written by ManiacBlasphemer on 02.04.2015 at 14:46

I hate to say this, but the band has found a formula and they seem like they can't escape from it, they just repeat it over and over again. Silverthorn was a clear sign, and I feel like this one won't stray from it either.

What's interesting is a Finnish journalist, who knows Kamelot's discography throughout, praised Haven front to back (9.5/10). Especially Tommy Karevik's performance, which he thinks is the best on any Kamelot record.

This song isn't that catchy indeed. Whenever I try to recall the chorus, "The Wolves Die Young" by Sonata Arctica gets going in my head instead

Rather predictable, heard it all before kind of song, hope the rest of the album is more interesting than this

Written by Risto on 02.04.2015 at 15:19

What's interesting is a Finnish journalist, who knows Kamelot's discography throughout, praised Haven front to back (9.5/10). Especially Tommy Karevik's performance, which he thinks is the best on any Kamelot record.

This song isn't that catchy indeed. Whenever I try to recall the chorus, "The Wolves Die Young" by Sonata Arctica gets going in my head instead

90% of the time I think that critics, reviewers or journalists are from another realm or they were payed in order to come up with such opinions. Seriously. Especially those among mainstream media. There is a sort of political correctness among them, most of the time they seem like they do not dare to criticize or slam a record (even though it deserves it or not) because it may bother the artists... I know this from the media in my own country that basicaly praises everything as being masterpieces. Even among the metal webzines I rarely see ratings going lower than 7. This is the reason why most of the time I find it pointless reading reviews. The remaining 10% are the exceptions, as I found good ones, well argued ones, even here on metalstorm (rare though in my own country's webzines).

The guy must've been a Kamelot fanboy (I was one too, until Khan left and I set my feet on the ground) as well. Karevik is a great vocal performer, but that's it. He does a good job, but he is not impressive and does not have moments where his vocal delivery makes the difference. Khan had those moments that basicaly saved some tracks from being filler ones.

Written by ManiacBlasphemer on 02.04.2015 at 15:37

Written by Risto on 02.04.2015 at 15:19

What's interesting is a Finnish journalist, who knows Kamelot's discography throughout, praised Haven front to back (9.5/10). Especially Tommy Karevik's performance, which he thinks is the best on any Kamelot record.

This song isn't that catchy indeed. Whenever I try to recall the chorus, "The Wolves Die Young" by Sonata Arctica gets going in my head instead

90% of the time I think that critics, reviewers or journalists are from another realm or they were payed in order to come up with such opinions. Seriously. Especially those among mainstream media. There is a sort of political correctness among them, most of the time they seem like they do not dare to criticize or slam a record (even though it deserves it or not) because it may bother the artists... I know this from the media in my own country that basicaly praises everything as being masterpieces. Even among the metal webzines I rarely see ratings going lower than 7. This is the reason why most of the time I find it pointless reading reviews. The remaining 10% are the exceptions, as I found good ones, well argued ones, even here on metalstorm (rare though in my own country's webzines).

The guy must've been a Kamelot fanboy (I was one too, until Khan left and I set my feet on the ground) as well. Karevik is a great vocal performer, but that's it. He does a good job, but he is not impressive and does not have moments where his vocal delivery makes the difference. Khan had those moments that basicaly saved some tracks from being filler ones.

Khan also wrote some of the most beautiful lyrics in music, period. He was an amazing singer, but arguably an ever better lyricist. No other artist could write about the fate of a rapist as eloquently and poetically as him. I have yet to hear/read anything like that from Karevik. His lyrics aren't bad, but predictable and ordinary.

I'm a total Kamelot fanboy since 2002. It's true it's nothing special but I'm loving it anyways for what it is: New Kamelot.

I personally find the chorus amazing, but then again I'm a big Karevik fan and a sucker for that kind of chorus. However, I agree that musically it feels to much like the usual. They need to step up and improve on their song structure. Otherwise it will be yet another forgettable power metal album.

Yeah, standard Kamelot, sure. I can't help but chuckle at the thought of how drastically different the comments would read here if they switched things up. At this point, after so many albums of the same formula, I imagine In Flames-levels of fallout.

Written by chronic-headache on 02.04.2015 at 16:57

I'm a total Kamelot fanboy since 2002. It's true it's nothing special but I'm loving it anyways for what it is: New Kamelot.

I'm in the same boat. New Kamelot = Happy Me!

Bah. Next please.

Eh, fine, perfectly listenable but I was hoping they'd've made a bit of a step forward from Silverthorn - I wasn't too impressed by that album but I at least thought it was a solid enough starting base to grow on, but this doesn't suggest like they've made any strides forward as a collective since.

And to the guy above complaining about people complaining, well they did try to mix things up a bit with Poetry for the Poisoned, which was a failed experiment which a fair number of people didn't warm to, but it wasn't lambasted and it's not like the fans shat themselves over it, so In Flames comparisons are off-base. But in terms of sticking to the same formula, at least on albums like Karma and particularly The Black Halo (which I don't think was a retread of past albums in style anyway), they sounded inspired in that style. Uninspired music in that style such as this, regardless of how good the singer is (he is good, if not quite as good as Khan) and how competently the formla is replicated (competently enough, with a professional shine to the music and an entertaining enough chorus), is ultimately uninspiring and susceptible to drawing criticism.

Written by musclassia on 02.04.2015 at 19:35

But in terms of sticking to the same formula, at least on albums like Karma and particularly The Black Halo (which I don't think was a retread of past albums in style anyway), they sounded inspired in that style. Uninspired music in that style such as this, regardless of how good the singer is (he is good, if not quite as good as Khan) and how competently the formla is replicated (competently enough, with a professional shine to the music and an entertaining enough chorus), is ultimately uninspiring and susceptible to drawing criticism.

Can you elaborate on your definition of "uninspired"? I suspect that this is more of a subjective interpretation of the song, most likely fueled by the vocalist (or at least, that's how I interpreted your comment). Oddly enough, I hear many aspects of The Black Halo throughout the entirety of this song. Everything from "When The Lights Are Down" to "Center Of The Universe" resonate throughout certain parts of the song. I can only conclude the lack of inspiration is from the the singer? Or is uninspired used as a synonym for originality? This song obviously lacks originality by any measure.

Here's a thought, both Epica and The Black Halo, arguably two of their best works had so much inspiration behind them because they were concept albums based off an epic novel. It's almost as though the inspiration was baby-bird-fed to them with an epic storyline to play along with. I'd bet a re-release of both albums with Tommy on point would sound just as a excellent if not better with their furthered experience in mixing and production. Still, people are going to complain because the albums will lack Khan's signature nasally vocals.

As soon as they go to release a concept album, with a backing story of their own creation, blam! Uninspired. My suggestion to the band? Stick to concept albums based off highly acclaimed epic novels. Take a cue from Symphony X and do your own interpretation of Paradise Lost.

What do you like more, a new Kamelot record that is "predictive" and "unimpressive" or that they disband? I prefer the predictive record and I'm quite sure that I will like it. By the way, those of you who were constantly innovative, unpredictive and impressive in your job during the last decade, please raise your hands.

Written by ScottyM on 02.04.2015 at 20:30

Can you elaborate on your definition of "uninspired"? I suspect that this is more of a subjective interpretation of the song, most likely fueled by the vocalist (or at least, that's how I interpreted your comment). Oddly enough, I hear many aspects of The Black Halo throughout the entirety of this song. Everything from "When The Lights Are Down" to "Center Of The Universe" resonate throughout certain parts of the song. I can only conclude the lack of inspiration is from the the singer? Or is uninspired used as a synonym for originality? This song obviously lacks originality by any measure.

Here's a thought, both Epica and The Black Halo, arguably two of their best works had so much inspiration behind them because they were concept albums based off an epic novel. It's almost as though the inspiration was baby-bird-fed to them with an epic storyline to play along with. I'd bet a re-release of both albums with Tommy on point would sound just as a excellent if not better with their furthered experience in mixing and production. Still, people are going to complain because the albums will lack Khan's signature nasally vocals.

As soon as they go to release a concept album, with a backing story of their own creation, blam! Uninspired. My suggestion to the band? Stick to concept albums based off highly acclaimed epic novels. Take a cue from Symphony X and do your own interpretation of Paradise Lost.

To be honest, I do think 'uninspired' as an adjective is always going to come down to an element of subjectivity. It's not that its inherently different to When The Lights Are Down or Centre Of The Universe, it certainly shares elements including the romping entry, tempered verses leading to dramatic chorus with chugging guitars in the background, so I can't objectively say why it sounds uninspired. And it's not necessarily about originality, yes the song offers nothing new from the band, but an 'inspired' band can play the same style as an 'uninspired' band but their songs have a spark that excites. And I don't have a problem with the vocalist - to be honest, if I'd stopped following metal for a few years around the turn of the decade and returned to this band, Karevik sounds so similar to Khan that I would've just assumed something minor had happened to Khan's voice. But it just it sounds very by-the-numbers in the way that songs including those you listed never have for me, with the metal riffing guitar and orchestrations offering nothing besides a 'Kamelot' texture to the song, the lead guitar intro not really capturing the imagination, the verses just acting as padding for the choruses, and the chorus not even reaching the heights or, say, Angel of Afterlife in terms of pure excitement and memorability. Obviously, all those things are subjective, but everything I've just listed as reasons I consider this song uninspired I feel the opposite about for, say, When The Lights Go Down - after March of Mephisto, the pummelling intro grabs the attention, the lead guitar melodies and orchestral responses instantly win me over, the verses have a cool backing rhythm and the vocals straightaway work for me, and then the chorus is just massive. There's literally no way I can objectively explain these differences in terms of technique, or chords, or anything else, but just from listening to it that's exactly how I feel, and I wonder how many people uninitiated with the band but moderately experienced in the genre might agree with me.

And, particularly for TBH but also for Epica, I do think the concept very much helped shape song structure and order in a way, but they still had to deliver the songs and in my mind they delivered almost every time with songs that occupy the same genre but offer up something different with every track, all equally memorable and 'winning'. Also, Karma didn't really have a concept, but delivered a number of fantastic songs. Whether adding Karevik would make too much of a difference I don't know, I mean the guy does sound very similar, they'd still be excellent albums I'm sure. But then Ghost Opera came along and somehow just didn't manage to find the winning formula the previous 3 albums had despite not doing anything obviously wrong. Silverthorn has an interesting opener in Angel Of Afterlife, but too many of the songs on it just offer nothing of interest to me, and it's not really anything to do with the singer, I just don't think they're particularly strong songs.

Would a new big concept inspired by a classic story sort things? I don't know. The Black Halo, the first 4 songs off it, really show a band full of confidence in their songwriting abilites and on top of their game, going from slow and brooding, to fast and direct, to long and expansive, and from the punch of When The Lights Are Down, to the almost, I don't know, playful nature of Soul Society's chorus, it's outstanding. I don't know if they can recapture that, but Karma is far more a case of similar, fairly straightforward power metal songs that just work very well, such as Forever, Wings of Despair and Karma the song. I'm more confident they can rediscover the spark that produced those, because I really thing the last album and this song is lacking that spark, and it's nothing I can describe, it's intangible, but judging from other people's complaints, I'm not the only one to 'notice' as it were.

And regarding the question would I rather a 'predictable and unimpressive' new album or the band to disband, to be honest I'd probably rather they just toured until they came up with something truly worthwhile, becuase I'd like to see them but the more unimpressive albums they release and tour on, the less great songs I'd get to see if I went to a gig. I hope the new album is good and better than the last one, or at the very least it offers something that people enjoy, and by people I mean people outside of the fanboys that would probably embrace anything they listen with either the defence of 'I don't see you being innovative' if they repeat themselves or 'if you don't like change you're closeminded' if they shifted their sound. But I honestly believe they are releasing material that's not only not on a par with their finest work, which is entirely understandable, but in several cases just not particularly good, and ultimately I haven't listened to Silverthorn or anything from it aside from Angel of Afterlife in possibly over 2 years now, and haven't found myself drawn to it again at all, whilst I first discovered Karma at a similar time and have consistently returned to it since.

Wow long post, I can really ramble on sometimes.

Good song, nothing more, but certainly nothing less. I like it

Written by musclassia on 02.04.2015 at 22:05

I hope the new album is good and better than the last one, or at the very least it offers something that people enjoy, and by people I mean people outside of the fanboys that would probably embrace anything they listen with either the defence of 'I don't see you being innovative' if they repeat themselves or 'if you don't like change you're closeminded' if they shifted their sound.

Why should a band care about people outside of their fanbase? They pay for their music. Metal fans/"critics" are really the most cruel and holier-than-thou community in the world and unsatisfiable. If you stick to your sound, it's shit, if you change your sound, it's also shit. You can never make it right. Why are so many "artists" in the pop business? They are appreciated and can live from the crap they produce. In metal, your second album puts you into self-defense mode and this never stops. "In the past, everything was better, even the future" (Karl Valentin, Bavarian philosopher and comedian).

Bad, really bad... Recycling their worst songwriting.

Fanboy Powers activate!


I fucking love it.

Written by Nihil Aeternum on 02.04.2015 at 22:41

Why should a band care about people outside of their fanbase? They pay for their music. Metal fans/"critics" are really the most cruel and holier-than-thou community in the world and unsatisfiable. If you stick to your sound, it's shit, if you change your sound, it's also shit. You can never make it right. Why are so many "artists" in the pop business? They are appreciated and can live from the crap they produce. In metal, your second album puts you into self-defense mode and this never stops. "In the past, everything was better, even the future" (Karl Valentin, Bavarian philosopher and comedian).

I started writing a reply and ended up making another essay, so I'll try to be a bitmore brief in answering this, although that is a difficulty for me, particularly since this isn't necessarily an easy topic to cover briefly. Plus I do want to say any negative comments I make about a band on this website is not meant maliciously - obviously most of the bands struggle to live off their music, with it being a passion rather than a career, so I have no intention of trying to diminish bands. Still:

Yes bands should cater for the fanbase that supports them, but just as you mentioned all the negative people who shoot down competing bands, hate needlessly, or act hysterially in response to any kind of shift in sound (see the Opeth fans who acted as if 'betrayed' by their extreme prog metal-to-prog rock shift after 15 years of unanimously loved material), there are also far too many people in the 'true' core fanbases who repress any kind of constructive criticism, even just moderate praise rather than unconditional across-the-board adoration of a band's material - see YouTube videos of most metal bands. This isn't conducive to artistic growth if the only voices they listen to are the ones that parrot perfection over anything; even the new In Flames fans who shoot down their classic albums in trying to defend the likes of Silent Charms, in doing so insulting the fan base that built up the band in the first place(!).

I also think the 'either way people hate' complaint gets wheeled out too often - some people are resistant to change, and some people don't approve of stagnation. But most people will be happy for either an inspired effort within a band's established sound or a subtle or major shift that breathes new life into their music, and will only complain if the output is of low quality. I mean heck, The Black Halo's a clear musical change from Karma, but clearly people loved it, probably because it was awesome. Bands should care about people outside their fanbase, because if all you care about is hearing the people who say you're great regardless of what you do, which is the case for a large number of core fanbases of bands, you're not going to have the inclination to improve because they'll always be satisfied. But turning the naysayers into new fans whilst not forsaking your core identity should be encouraged, because often it represents artistic growth, which is to be encouraged. Do you think Kamelot would've had their career if people heard the first album and said it was perfect? I'm pretty certain that's the point you seem to be making about the pop artists who produce wildly successful crap that people lap up without caring about the quality of.

And anyway, I'm sure several people commenting here would arguably classify as part of Kamelot's fanbase, including possibly me, so surely the band would want to hear my opinion anyway if the fanbase is all that matters, even if my opinion is that they can do better than this rather than just blindly loving this song and their last couple albums whilst throwing up 666 devil horns?

Written by musclassia on 03.04.2015 at 00:33

I started writing a reply and ended up making another essay ... even if my opinion is that they can do better than this rather than just blindly loving this song and their last couple albums weilst throwing up 666 devil horns?

I think I understand your points and largely agree with them. I think that we both have similar opinions, maybe I am just a bit more cautious with critique, seeing how difficult it is to release a new album every 2-3 years that satisfies everybody's taste (see Opeth, In Flames, Katatonia, Dream Theater, Metallica, name a dozen more). However, any justified critique is constructive and appreciated. Unfortunately, most of the critique on this website - not yours - is not constructive. Criticizing something is so easy if you do not have to come up with something better. Who of us can write an album that is better than the black halo?

Written by Nihil Aeternum on 03.04.2015 at 01:37


I think I understand your points and largely agree with them. I think that we both have similar opinions, maybe I am just a bit more cautious with critique, seeing how difficult it is to release a new album every 2-3 years that satisfies everybody's taste (see Opeth, In Flames, Katatonia, Dream Theater, Metallica, name a dozen more). However, any justified critique is constructive and appreciated. Unfortunately, most of the critique on this website - not yours - is not constructive. Criticizing something is so easy if you do not have to come up with something better. Who of us can write an album that is better than the black halo?

I do think that's fair enough - I mean these bands are producing music of either occasional or regular extremely high quality, and except for the top few percentage aren't exactly swimming in money the way more commercially oriented musicians are, so I think it's nice to be more measured and appreciative of the good things they've done when being critical. And there can definitely be some needlessly negative and cruel comments on this website, although at least they are usually aimed towards more successful artists that can probably cope with it (and in certain cases may even slightly deserve it). But I don't think it's necessarily exclusive to metal, pretty much all forms of media evoke irrational reactions of either blind love, dismissiveness or outright venom without real measured appreciation, that just seems to be an unfortunate status quo on the internet these days. And whilst I don't really like the 'don't criticise if you can't make something better' argument as personal competence doesn't mean you can't judge things relative to its competition, I do think people should take into consideration that for many bands, rather than being financially viable products, a lot of albums are passion projects and adjust how tough they are with any criticisms accordingly.

Guys? Get a job.

Y'know what, I think I've been too harsh in my comments RE Silverthorn having revisited it today - it's not up with the classic 3 albums, but it's a lot closer to,say, Ghost Opera than I previously gave it credit for, and there's several songs on it I rather like. Which, to be honestly, probably makes me a bit more disappointed in this song as I've readjusted my assessment of it from 'treading water' to 'a step backwards'. But hey, it's quite likely the rest of the album will be better than it, so let's see

Written by Risto on 02.04.2015 at 15:19

This song isn't that catchy indeed. Whenever I try to recall the chorus, "The Wolves Die Young" by Sonata Arctica gets going in my head instead

Lol. This says it all.

This does sound so much like Kamelot that it's not even funny. I will say that I definitely liked some of the melodies on this song more than any song on Silverthorn. It still won't really help the album for me, though.

Written by DeathSlyzer on 04.04.2015 at 01:31

Written by Risto on 02.04.2015 at 15:19

This song isn't that catchy indeed. Whenever I try to recall the chorus, "The Wolves Die Young" by Sonata Arctica gets going in my head instead

Lol. This says it all.

Now I don't have any problems remembering it, even though I haven't listened to it since. My brain is weird

Written by Risto on 04.04.2015 at 09:46

Written by DeathSlyzer on 04.04.2015 at 01:31

Written by Risto on 02.04.2015 at 15:19

This song isn't that catchy indeed. Whenever I try to recall the chorus, "The Wolves Die Young" by Sonata Arctica gets going in my head instead

Lol. This says it all.

Now I don't have any problems remembering it, even though I haven't listened to it since. My brain is weird

Then you've gotten further than I. :p

I remember when Kamelot was a completely unique band. I remember listening to Kamelot thinking "How is it even possible to make a song this good?". I remember when the lyrics were like poetry...

I always thought Khan was what made Kamelot what it was, and Silverthorn and this kind of proves it.
They are completely different, I'm not even talking about the vocals, but the lyrics could be written by a 13 year old Twilight fangirl, and the music itself is just... nothing special at all.
I really hope the rest of the album doesn't sound like a Silverthorn 2.