http://observer.com/2016/01/the-slow-death-of-heavy-metal/

An article by the Observer a few days ago featuring interviews with Rob Halford and Dani Filth talking on the supposed current 'decline of heavy metal'.

Considering the recent death of metal forefathers and the inevitability that these deaths will only continue with greater frequency, there is no doubt that metal is in a transition period. Metal had a resurgence in the 00's, with many of the 80's acts, like the Big 4, getting worldwide recognition once again. But now we are reaching a point where the genre won't be able to rest on the laurels of the big bands of old, because one by one they will die off or disband(excuse my frankness).

But, personally, I think metal is too big to die at this point. Subgenres like Death, Black, Folk, Symphonic etc. are all too well established and are fairly unnaffected by the presence, or one day lack thereof, of the classic metal acts. When the big acts fade from the scene, the subgenres will be their legacy. Perhaps metal will never again achieve mainstream appeal but it will live on in the corners of the underground, occasionally surfacing into the public eye here and there, for a long time to come.

What are your thoughts on the article?

For tl dr'ers, the article goes more or less like this:

1) The big bands are dying.
2) There won't be any more big bands.
3) Metal isn't mainstream anymore, as it was in the 80s
4) Then they say this quote: Someone has got to do something new, and the fans and the audience have got to be ready for that change.
and right after they cite some bands and claim no one is pushing boundaries.
5) Band instead of making something new are trying to copy what metal was before.
6) Young bands don't have enough money to survive.

Uhh, if you want more than that you're gonna have to actually read the stuff.

My conclusion is that he who wrote the article is a guy who turns his radio on and keeps waiting to hear some metal on it. And when it does (it plays say Five Finger Death Punch or Avenged Sevenfold) and he does not like what he hears. Then he goes back to his heavy metal albums he bought on the 80s.

First of all it's not "heavy metal", it's metal. "heavy metal" is a subgenre.
At this point what we say about "the whole genre dying" has to have some common sense on its meaning. Does it mean that there are not going to be any more mainstream metal bands playing on our radio, widely accepted? If so, then yeah, the article makes some sense. Doees it mean the genre will die to a point the emerging bands number is going to decrease and decrease until it almost disappears, leaving us to only a handful of indie bands playing metal known as retro music from the 80s? Then, nope. far from it.

The big bands are dying. Yeah. that's a fact. And no, there are not going to be any more of them. Metal is not mainstream anymore. Media is not interested. If you want to listen to metal you are going to have to actually search for it. Even on the metal circle there can not be any more big bands because if they try to play something appeasing everybody, they are going to have to copy what is already established, and be a copycat. And if they're going to try to make something original, they're not going to please everybody, because most metalheads are conservative. The only relatively big band which could appeal to most of the subcrowds of metal recently was Rammstein, I think. And they're not even that big.

And then they say nobody is doing anything new. >.> take a look at all those underground subgenres. Black, Post, Sludge, Death, Doom, Industrial, Folk... Each one is a metal subscene full of bands, each of those playing the most bizarre stuff I ever heard. If one can't hear originality coming from those genres he must be deaf, listening to the wrong stuff, I don't know... I say metal is more diverse today than it ever was. they say innovation would be the solution for the "fall" of metal, what makes me think a band experimenting a lot will magically be accepted by all the metalhead community and become big. No. the most original ones are actually the smallest because they appease a smaller crowd. But hey, some news for he who wrote the article: A band does not need to be big for you to listen to it. There are tons of original stuff there, go search for it. And to be honest there's no praise to bands being so original on the 80s. Of course they were, nothing was even invented yet. Any riff they came up with would turn out to be innovative.

What you said I agree with. Metal is too big to die at this point. there are too much subgenres and each of them is evolving on spectacular rates. Bands don't need big band alive to be inspired. First of all I don't believe a band will be "uninspired" to the point it won't make music if there isn't a band he can base his composition on. But if they ever do, the records of the older ones will never die. They will always be there. be the band's members dead or alive. Bowie died. Does this mean there will be no more retro pop a la Bowie anymore? I seriously doubt it.

The only of those arguments which could possibly be a factor contributing to the "fall" of the genre is the lack of money. That's right, since media is more interested in dubsted nowadays, the bands aren't getting any cash. What does this mean? People will stop composing? How much records I already saw on Bandcamp which were sold for free? This means there are people out there working on other things and writing music for fun, because they like it. It would be more fair if they were recognized for it? yes it would. But if they're not this is not going to stop them.

The search for bands is definitely true in this day in age. Back in early 00's, Metallica, Linkin Park and Korn were the only things I knew as metal. Thankfully the internet showed me that there was this strange subgenre called 'thrash metal' that Metallica belonged too and the rest was history.

Also, Modern metal is more and more becoming an 'aquired taste'. Thrash metal was already somewhat unpalatable to me at first listen as an adolescent and took some getting used to. And the deeper you go into extreme metal the more getting used to it you have to become, which I think is a big reason modern metal, as it stands, will have a hard time breaking into the mainstream again but hey, trends can be surprising sometimes.

I pretty much agree with all you said. It seems the stereotypical old time 'heavy metal' fans/bands have this disconnect with what the scene has become. Dave Mustaine constantly complains about how no new bands have great guitar solos and such. For some reason they can't look beyond American/British classic metal genres and see the plethora of talent and creativity in other subgenres and parts of the world. So in their limited scope of the genre, then yes, 'Heavy Metal' - the subgenre - is dying, but it's already kind of been dead since 1992. That said, Metal, in all it's forms, is not dying and is actually thriving in many ways, even if the popularity boom from the 00's has recently drooped into a lull.

Written by Karlabos on 18.01.2016 at 00:04

For tl dr'ers, the article goes more or less like this:
points

tl;dr

Written by mz on 18.01.2016 at 02:09

Written by Karlabos on 18.01.2016 at 00:04

For tl dr'ers, the article goes more or less like this:
points

tl;dr

Actually the tldr was just the 6 points. everything below was my response

Written by Karlabos on 18.01.2016 at 02:18


Actually the tldr was just the 6 points. everything below was my response

I know, but still wanted to be a dick.

I think once the big bands are gone, it'll chug along in the underground like ragtime or ska or swing.

Written by Karlabos on 18.01.2016 at 00:04


First of all it's not "heavy metal", it's metal.

Heavy metal is and always is the main genre, not a subgenre. Metal is short form.

Good thing I found this website when I was still a rookie. If I never knew about metalstorm's existence, I would have been listening only the old popular metal bands and would have never learned how to find good metal bands by own, also would have agreed with the article from the observer like a clueless moron.

Okay I'm still a moron, but less clueless.

Written by Spirit of dead on 18.01.2016 at 05:27

I think once the big bands are gone, it'll chug along in the underground like ragtime or ska or swing.

Written by Karlabos on 18.01.2016 at 00:04


First of all it's not "heavy metal", it's metal.

Heavy metal is and always is the main genre, not a subgenre. Metal is short form.

I am a metal novice at this point. However, I don't really think heavy metal will ever die. Change, possibly. But Die, no.

Metal is not dying music lives forever, only what dies are big bands, fathers, musicians, but heavy metal no, it will be in a underground, remember BIG bands in demo era was rejected. diference is they drugged, booze, and women to party whit bands bought them food, now bands works, yes big bands wont be but you never know, but like Mike Hotel once shared on FB, ''music is dead, no you simply has not chacked scene after high school''

Written by Spirit of dead on 18.01.2016 at 05:27

Written by Karlabos on 18.01.2016 at 00:04


First of all it's not "heavy metal", it's metal.

Heavy metal is and always is the main genre, not a subgenre. Metal is short form.

Both are subjective opinions. In the metal community, Heavy Metal is mostly considered a specific genre rather than a blanket term. To the outside world, Heavy Metal is mostly considered a blanket term for the entire genre as a whole. How we use the term is subjective and depends on the context of the use.

This reminds me that people also complain how music is dead after the 90s. Back then we had Madonna, Michael Jackspon, etc and nowadays only crap like Justin Bieber, Nicky Minaj...

I bet if the same person who wrote this article would write about pop he'd write something on this line.
People nowadays just won't search for music on their own anymore

Yawn.

We get these sort of articles periodically these days, almost like a menstrual cycle, whenever it's that time for the old grandpa metallers to cry again about how there aren't a ton of bands selling out stadiums and selling platinum albums anymore like they did, and how this is evident that the genre is, in every aspect, clearly in a state of decline and nearing its inevitable end. I would expect this kind of commentary out of a veteran like Halford, but hearing it from Dani Filth is a bit surprising. Even if COF is one of (if not) the most abhorrent mainstream metal bands out there, one would like to at least think that Dani is "new generation" enough to understand how the metal scene is evolving in the present day. I guess that's not the case.

Anyway, my response is the same every time. Back in the day there was a trend in metal where bands that developed and employed new ideas and created new sounds were often the ones that rose to mainstream prominence and got the most attention. But this simply isn't the case anymore. As for why it isn't... that's a discussion best suited for people with a very thorough knowledge of how the music industry has changed in the past 20 years (i.e. not me). But whatever the reason, evolution and that "something new" that these old rockers say it's time for, is not going to gain mainstream attention within metal these days. It's found in the deeper, underground levels of the genre that are often only probed into by the more enthusiastic and curious fans. Or, in other words, those who'd like to gain an understanding of what metal is beyond the surface level incarnation of it represented by bands like Amon Amarth, Children Of Bodom, Machine Head, Dimmu Borgir, etc. But has that ever really been the case with anything, that new ideas just suddenly emerge to popularity right off the bat? It's quite funny that some people act as if the next big thing that's going to completely deconstruct music and be the foundational band for a new generation is just going to POOF appear on Billboard charts overnight. Innovation always begins on the DL.

Even more underground bands within metal draw a fair amount of attention and media buzz in their own right. How many people have heard of Gnaw Their Tongues, for example? Probably very, very few. But how many got hyped as fuck when they were announced for Roadburn last year? Hundreds, definitely. So for some, the musicians within these more underground metal bands are definitely "icons" or "rock stars," even if they're not selling out venues that hold tens of thousands of people and appearing on the cover of magazines. And that's really all it should take. Intimate connection with an audience. With the arguments that I see people like Halford, Gene Simmons, Ozzy, Yngwie Malmsteen, etc. making on the regular about how "metal is dead" and "we need something new," it almost seems as though there are some people out there who look for something to receive validation from mainstream societal culture it can be considered as artistically legitimate... which is ironic considering how bands like Priest, Sabbath, KISS, etc. started off as bands that were both lyrically and visually in total contrast to the prevailing status quo of the day.

So as far as needing new trends and new icons is concerned within the context of modern metal: both are already there, just at a predominantly underground level nowadays. And ultimately, that just boils down to a fundamental life rule: being unaware of something's existence doesn't automatically mean that the thing in question doesn't exist.

Written by Auntie Sahar on 19.01.2016 at 23:03

, but hearing it from Dani Filth is a bit surprising. Even if COF is one of (if not) the most abhorrent mainstream metal bands out there, one would like to at least think that Dani is "new generation" enough to understand how the metal scene is evolving in the present day. I guess that's not the case.

Given CoF are nearly a 25 year old band and have been out of the underground for at least 15 of that, they probably don't have much contact with the true underground.

Written by Spirit of dead on 20.01.2016 at 00:02

Given CoF are nearly a 25 year old band and have been out of the underground for at least 15 of that, they probably don't have much contact with the true underground.

Yeah, fair point

Written by AngelofDeth on 19.01.2016 at 22:51


Both are subjective opinions. In the metal community, Heavy Metal is mostly considered a specific genre rather than a blanket term. To the outside world, Heavy Metal is mostly considered a blanket term for the entire genre as a whole. How we use the term is subjective and depends on the context of the use.

Actually metal labels like Century Media and Nuclear Blast and magazines like Iron Fist and Metal Hammer use Heavy Metal as a blanket term.

Written by Auntie Sahar on 19.01.2016 at 23:03

I would expect this kind of commentary out of a veteran like Halford, but hearing it from Dani Filth is a bit surprising. Even if COF is one of (if not) the most abhorrent mainstream metal bands out there, one would like to at least think that Dani is "new generation" enough to understand how the metal scene is evolving in the present day. I guess that's not the case.

Dani was speaking on the lack of popularity in all metal genres currently compared to 00's. To some extant it is true, the big 00 bands like Children of Bodom, Nightwish, Behemoth, Arch Enemy etc. peaked some time ago and are not as widely popular, and not putting out the same quality I might add, as they were in say 2008 as he mentioned. As far as I can see, no new big bands have filled the role of these 00 bands mentioned. Also, he mostly seemed positive about the future of his band and metal rather than strictly negative and suggested an outlet where metal may grow in the coming years (Eastern Euro and Asia).

Just found this article from Gama Bomb's Philly Byrne, who argues that metal is stuck in a rut and needs to get out of its comfort zone.

http://metalhammer.teamrock.com/features/2016-01-18/metal-is-being-killed-by-cliches-i-know-because-i-am-one

Personally I don't know. I think the mainstream is stuck in a rut but there's obviously a lot of stuff happening in the underground.

I don't think the current cutting edge underground stuff will ever become as popular as even Lamb of God or Killswitch Engage did in early 2000s cause a lot of it is really abrasive and requires active listening and lots of direct listener investment. Basically it's not catchy.

I guess metal lives but it eventually becomes exclusively underground.

Written by AngelofDeth on 20.01.2016 at 00:05

Dani was speaking on the lack of popularity in all metal genres currently compared to 00's. To some extant it is true, the big 00 bands like Children of Bodom, Nightwish, Behemoth, Arch Enemy etc. peaked some time ago and are not as widely popular, and not putting out the same quality I might add, as they were in say 2008 as he mentioned. As far as I can see, no new big bands have filled the role of these 00 bands mentioned. Also, he mostly seemed positive about the future of his band and metal rather than strictly negative and suggested an outlet where metal may grow in the coming years (Eastern Euro and Asia).

I should admit that I made that comment before actually sitting down and reading the article, so it may be a little off
But yes, taking it all into consideration now, in addition to what you just said, Dani does seem to offer a better argument that comes off as more than just the usual "metal's not how it was in the 80s anymore" type of whining.

What genre of metal would you consider Killswitch Engage? I'm having a hard time pinning it.

Written by AngelofDeth on 20.01.2016 at 00:05


Dani was speaking on the lack of popularity in all metal genres currently compared to 00's. To some extant it is true, the big 00 bands like Children of Bodom, Nightwish, Behemoth, Arch Enemy etc. peaked some time ago and are not as widely popular, and not putting out the same quality I might add, as they were in say 2008 as he mentioned. As far as I can see, no new big bands have filled the role of these 00 bands mentioned. Also, he mostly seemed positive about the future of his band and metal rather than strictly negative and suggested an outlet where metal may grow in the coming years (Eastern Euro and Asia).

Actually Dani was talking about 2008 being the last year they made any significant amount of money and played big concerts, not necessarily quality of output:

Quote:
But we're finding it increasingly harder to get out there and make a living. You notice the difference. These days it's not the same as it was. I think the last big year that everyone's talked about was 2008, the last big year that people across the metal scene said that they bought a sports car or went out and did big shows.

I agree with the rest of your post though!

Written by S1ider on 20.01.2016 at 00:15

What genre of metal would you consider Killswitch Engage? I'm having a hard time pinning it.

Metalcore.

Written by Spirit of dead on 20.01.2016 at 00:19

Written by AngelofDeth on 20.01.2016 at 00:05


Dani was speaking on the lack of popularity in all metal genres currently compared to 00's. To some extant it is true, the big 00 bands like Children of Bodom, Nightwish, Behemoth, Arch Enemy etc. peaked some time ago and are not as widely popular, and not putting out the same quality I might add, as they were in say 2008 as he mentioned. As far as I can see, no new big bands have filled the role of these 00 bands mentioned. Also, he mostly seemed positive about the future of his band and metal rather than strictly negative and suggested an outlet where metal may grow in the coming years (Eastern Euro and Asia).

Actually Dani was talking about 2008 being the last year they made any significant amount of money and played big concerts, not necessarily quality of output:

Quote:
But we're finding it increasingly harder to get out there and make a living. You notice the difference. These days it's not the same as it was. I think the last big year that everyone's talked about was 2008, the last big year that people across the metal scene said that they bought a sports car or went out and did big shows.

I agree with the rest of your post though!

That's why I put "I might add" after that bit, so yes, my opinion not his on that part.

Written by Auntie Sahar on 19.01.2016 at 23:03

Yawn.
the old grandpa metallers to cry again about how there aren't a ton of bands selling out stadiums and selling platinum albums anymore like they did,

Could be because the old grandpa bands are still touring recording, so there's no room for new ones to do so. We'll have to wait until the Maidens and Metallicas retire to see if any will take their places.

I wonder what will the old time 'heavy metal' fans will do after all the 80s bands stop working, will they just keep listening to the old records over and over again? Will they stop listening to metal and begin following mainstream media music? Will they finally give up on the 80s and acknowledge the existence of modern metal?

Written by Karlabos on 20.01.2016 at 13:41

I wonder what will happen to the old time 'heavy metal' fans will do after all the 80s bands stop working, will they just keep listening to the old records over and over again? Will they stop listening to metal and begin following mainstream media music? Will they finally give up on the 80s and acknowledge the existence of modern metal?

In 99% of the cases the thought: "metal was better before" will follow them to their graves. They will be less than amused in hell when Satan starts playing the new stuff.

Written by Karlabos on 20.01.2016 at 13:41

I wonder what will the old time 'heavy metal' fans will do after all the 80s bands stop working, will they just keep listening to the old records over and over again? Will they stop listening to metal and begin following mainstream media music? Will they finally give up on the 80s and acknowledge the existence of modern metal?

People still listen to Frank Sinatra, Elvis, Hendrix, Grateful Dead and Nirvana even though most of those have not been around for decades let alone released new material!

Many people don't seek new music and many more prefer familiarity and yet others need constant flow of new stuff. There's different ways of being into music.

Written by M C Vice on 20.01.2016 at 13:17


Could be because the old grandpa bands are still touring recording, so there's no room for new ones to do so. We'll have to wait until the Maidens and Metallicas retire to see if any will take their places.

If the system works, the grandpa bands are useful for giving younger bands exposure as support acts. Better to play in front of 10,000 grandpa metal fans than 100 of your own. As they say, throw enough mud and some will stick.

The festivals also seem really important for getting up and coming bands exposure even if it's the 9 am slot!

I think the scene is too diverse these days to create something as popular as Metallica or Iron Maiden or even Cradle of Filth or Arch Enemy.

Written by Spirit of dead on 20.01.2016 at 23:38

Written by Karlabos on 20.01.2016 at 13:41

I wonder what will the old time 'heavy metal' fans will do after all the 80s bands stop working, will they just keep listening to the old records over and over again? Will they stop listening to metal and begin following mainstream media music? Will they finally give up on the 80s and acknowledge the existence of modern metal?

People still listen to Frank Sinatra, Elvis, Hendrix, Grateful Dead and Nirvana even though most of those have not been around for decades let alone released new material!

Many people don't seek new music and many more prefer familiarity and yet others need constant flow of new stuff. There's different ways of being into music.

Yeah definitely, nothing wrong with people being only passionate about older stuff, or just familiar stuff. I think people forget that on this site.