Inspired by my recent review, eh? Well, this list definitely gets the thumb up from me. Seeing the "regardless of musical quality" disclaimer sort of casts how good each these albums are into doubt though.... any one in particular that you'd recommend that actually has some pretty decent musicianship to it?

Du no non of those bands, will chek it out

Written by Auntie Sahar on 29.05.2019 at 05:08

Inspired by my recent review, eh? Well, this list definitely gets the thumb up from me. Seeing the "regardless of musical quality" disclaimer sort of casts how good each these albums are into doubt though.... any one in particular that you'd recommend that actually has some pretty decent musicianship to it?

Yes, guilty as charged - I have not wasted any thought on "anti-NSBM BM" before I had read your review.

Two things bugged me: NSBM is widely accepted and most people don't even seem to care but on the other hand, the only anti-NSBM band I recently got aware of does only serve as a rather poor example of credibility and musical talent.

It's hard to recommend anything from this list though. Quality or some own musical identity still seems to be a rare commodity in this small niche of the genre.
Anyway, I like Dawn Ray'd (atmo black, quite punkish at times) and Book Of Sand (mellow experimental black) and I'm pretty sure that Spectral Lore's blend of BM and dark ambient was up your alley, after all you have staff-picked their album III a couple of years ago.

Yet I believe this movement is still lagging some years behind common Black Metal's development. First real anti-NSBM I could find was from 2004, that's 11 years after Manson's White Power demo and Absurd's "Werewolf"...

Written by Starvynth on 29.05.2019 at 14:03

Yet I believe this movement is still lagging some years behind common Black Metal's development. First real anti-NSBM I could find was from 2004, that's 11 years after Manson's White Power demo and Absurd's "Werewolf"...

I think it's just because black metal has long been a refuge for some of the most extreme behaviors and ideologies in the metal spectrum. I see the argument come up, more frequently than I'd like and in defense of NSBM, that "black metal is supposed to be dangerous, you can't turn it into a safe space by just censoring whatever is seen as immoral within it." The people making such an argument failing to realize the irony of talking about how black metal shouldn't be a realm for censorship while at the same time openly sympathizing with and endorsing bands who promote an ideology where censorship and limits on freedom of speech are some of the core underpinnings.

Written by Auntie Sahar on 29.05.2019 at 15:46

I think it's just because black metal has long been a refuge for some of the most extreme behaviors and ideologies in the metal spectrum. I see the argument come up, more frequently than I'd like and in defense of NSBM, that "black metal is supposed to be dangerous, you can't turn it into a safe space by just censoring whatever is seen as immoral within it." The people making such an argument failing to realize the irony of talking about how black metal shouldn't be a realm for censorship while at the same time openly sympathizing with and endorsing bands who promote an ideology where censorship and limits on freedom of speech are some of the core underpinnings.

You're absolutely right.
I usually do not believe in censorship - if applied arbitrarily, you'd have to censor round about 50% of all metal lyrics. But just like even the worst of porngrind moronism, most black metal lyrics are irrelevant teenager fantasies or at worst, wishful thinking. They do no harm.

But the problem with NSBM is that is it has evolved. It's not the brain diarrhea of some "basement dwelling losers" anymore but an almost global network, led by businessmen and specialized labels with distinct distribution structures for music, merchandise and affiliated publications.
Besides, NSBM is most probably the only subgenre of metal whose ideology has stepped out of the frame of pure imagination. Overt racism and ideologically motivated murder (e.g. Sandro Beyer) are no fantasies anymore but a real threat. A threat to a system that has spawned achievements like freedom of speech.

You have to draw a dividing line somewhere and I'm in favour of the position that any carte blanche for freedom of expression should become void at the latest when racism and fascism are involved. Because these ideologies are just plain wrong - at all times and places and in all ways.

Written by Bad English on 29.05.2019 at 13:44

Du no non of those bands, will chek it out

That's fine.
Please let me know if you happen to find something that appeals to you.
I'm not even halfway through with it...

Himens, iskra and dawns rayd. Non ms bands will be checked out via pc

Written by Bad English on 30.05.2019 at 13:24

Himens, iskra and dawns rayd. Non ms bands will be checked out via pc

My personal advice is to skip all bands playing "Nazi Die". In all cases, that's just a cover of Doom's crust punk hymn from 1988 and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it at all.

Nazism is an anti-individual ideology so you can add 95% of all black metal to this list as black metal traditionally is a genre that hates all forms of ideology that are founded on a central tenet. Its a good list but black metal probably dont have have to be outspoken about its hate for fascism, its just the way it is traditionally. Black metal is anti-fascism, then again theres anomalies like nsbm and christian black metal, but people who likes that dont like black metal, they like christianity and nazism.

Written by [user id=173045] on 06.06.2019 at 09:54

but people who likes that dont like black metal, they like christianity and nazism.

From what I've observed I'd say you also fall into this category: "Just look at the latest Deathspell Omega album, its a bit fun, but then when you realise that their fans like it for real it isnt as fun anymore." You put the horse before the cart, and your enjoyment of a musical medium is directly affected by its thematic content and public perception. There's nothing inherently wrong with that of course, but I think you do diminish a person's ability to enjoy something that they know is not entirely wholesome, when in fact, most people can do. I think you'll find very few people who are Christian or racist, who only listen to Christian or racist black metal and not other kinds. It's a reductive argument that's not really true at all outside of a few outliers.

Written by Mercurial on 06.06.2019 at 11:34

Written by [user id=173045] on 06.06.2019 at 09:54

but people who likes that dont like black metal, they like christianity and nazism.

From what I've observed I'd say you also fall into this category: "Just look at the latest Deathspell Omega album, its a bit fun, but then when you realise that their fans like it for real it isnt as fun anymore." You put the horse before the cart, and your enjoyment of a musical medium is directly affected by its thematic content and public perception. There's nothing inherently wrong with that of course, but I think you do diminish a person's ability to enjoy something that they know is not entirely wholesome, when in fact, most people can do. I think you'll find very few people who are Christian or racist, who only listen to Christian or racist black metal and not other kinds. It's a reductive argument that's not really true at all outside of a few outliers.

I am black metal before politics. I cant name one band that carries pink, red, black values and makes extra ordinary black metal at the same time. But if a band makes an album about slaying indigenous australians I am not gonna like it. Its like dripping poison in to a beer, would you enjoy it? Taste functions on different levels. So I am gonna stick with what I said, but change it a bit: the more ns you are the less you know and enjoy black metal, mainly because they are opposites.

Written by [user id=173045] on 06.06.2019 at 12:39

I am black metal before politics. I cant name one band that carries pink, red, black values and makes extra ordinary black metal at the same time. But if a band makes an album about slaying indigenous australians I am not gonna like it. Its like dripping poison in to a beer, would you enjoy it? Taste functions on different levels. So I am gonna stick with what I said, but change it a bit: the more ns you are the less you know and enjoy black metal, mainly because they are opposites.

More like drinking beer from a glass with a greasy, smelling looking dick on it. I'd be aware of what I'm drinking from, but it would still taste the same to me

For me black metal, foremost, is a collection of sounds and musical conventions defined over many decades. I also think it's the most inclusive genre when it comes to the variety of ideals, outlooks, ideas and themes, partly because of how varied it is musically. To me, trying pigeonhole black metal into one specific mindset is to really misunderstand what black metal is. As I said before, it needs the "bad" as much as it needs the "good" in order to thrive. You can't understand something if you hide it from view. Gatekeeping black metal is inherently bad imo, and just serves to make it worse over time. I also firmly believe a person cannot dictate to others how much they're enjoying something. That's peak arrogance.

Written by Mercurial on 06.06.2019 at 12:47

Written by [user id=173045] on 06.06.2019 at 12:39

I am black metal before politics. I cant name one band that carries pink, red, black values and makes extra ordinary black metal at the same time. But if a band makes an album about slaying indigenous australians I am not gonna like it. Its like dripping poison in to a beer, would you enjoy it? Taste functions on different levels. So I am gonna stick with what I said, but change it a bit: the more ns you are the less you know and enjoy black metal, mainly because they are opposites.

More like drinking beer from a glass with a greasy, smelling looking dick on it. I'd be aware of what I'm drinking from, but it would still taste the same to me

For me black metal, foremost, is a collection of sounds and musical conventions defined over many decades. I also think it's the most inclusive genre when it comes to the variety of ideals, outlooks, ideas and themes, partly because of how varied it is musically. To me, trying pigeonhole black metal into one specific mindset is to really misunderstand what black metal is. As I said before, it needs the "bad" as much as it needs the "good" in order to thrive. You can't understand something if you hide it from view. Gatekeeping black metal is inherently bad imo, and just serves to make it worse over time. I also firmly believe a person cannot dictate to others how much they're enjoying something. That's peak arrogance.

Black metal is "bad" in itself, nazism doesnt make it any "badder", just dumber. Theres tons of nsbm bands and probably non of them have made black metal any better.

Written by [user id=173045] on 06.06.2019 at 13:17

Black metal is "bad" in itself, nazism doesnt make it any "badder", just dumber. Theres tons of nsbm bands and probably non of them have made black metal any better.

Pretty shortsighted perspective. NSBM can, and probably has, lead to Anti-NSBM pushback in various forms within black metal. Sure, much of it is as shite as most NSBM is, but with new ideas can often come innovation. Stagnation in ideas leads to poor music. As long as black metal is filled with variation there will also be people creating new music to push back or better existing ideas.

Platitudes: "Stagnation in ideas leads to poor music." Yes. "As long as black metal is filled with variation there will also be people creating new music to push back or better existing ideas." Yes?
...but non of that has to do with nazism.

Written by [user id=173045] on 06.06.2019 at 14:07

Platitudes: "Stagnation in ideas leads to poor music." Yes. "As long as black metal is filled with variation there will also be people creating new music to push back or better existing ideas." Yes�
...but non of that has to do with nazism.

You literally just quoted me out of context, whilst ignoring the part that contextualises it. Come on, try harder.

Written by Mercurial on 06.06.2019 at 14:26

Written by [user id=173045] on 06.06.2019 at 14:07

Platitudes: "Stagnation in ideas leads to poor music." Yes. "As long as black metal is filled with variation there will also be people creating new music to push back or better existing ideas." Yes�
...but non of that has to do with nazism.

Come on, try harder.

Are you flirting with me?

Written by [user id=173045] on 06.06.2019 at 14:46

Are you flirting with me?

Nah, I've dated social justice types before, it was horrible

Written by [user id=173045] on 06.06.2019 at 09:54

Nazism is an anti-individual ideology so you can add 95% of all black metal to this list as black metal traditionally is a genre that hates all forms of ideology that are founded on a central tenet. [...]
Black metal is anti-fascism [...]

That's why it says "Black Metal with a clear message against nazism, fascism or racism". I fail to recognize this message in at least 99% of all black metal releases.

I really wished you were right, but you are talking about the desirable theory and philosophical background of black metal only. NSBM is a stupid idea by definition, but it requires a certain level of intelligence to spot the error in reasoning.
In practise, there have always been enough dumb people supporting the ideology of NS and as a result, NSBM has as well always been there.

It took me around five hours to compile a rather pathetic quantity of just 50 anti-NSBM songs whereas round about 500 NSBM albums are just two mouse clicks away. And this is just the tip of the iceberg as the substantially identical label "RAC / metal" is still being used as a synonym and replacement for NSBM and to conceal dubious intentions.

Written by Starvynth on 06.06.2019 at 14:56

That's why it says "Black Metal with a clear message against nazism, fascism or racism". I fail to recognize this message in at least 99% of all black metal releases.

I really wished you were right, but you are talking about the desirable theory and philosophical background of black metal only. NSBM is a stupid idea by definition, but it requires a certain level of intelligence to spot the error in reasoning.
In practise, there have always been enough dumb people supporting the ideology of NS and as a result, NSBM has as well always been there.

It took me around five hours to compile a rather pathetic quantity of just 50 anti-NSBM songs whereas round about 500 NSBM albums are just two mouse clicks away. And this is just the tip of the iceberg as the substantially identical label "RAC / metal" is still being used as a synonym and replacement for NSBM and to conceal dubious intentions.

This is especially compounded by the abundance of black metal bands that have racist members that don't feature their views in their music. I'm guessing if MA had a way to itemise this it would be a hell of a lot higher than 500. Black metal is racist in its bones. To say it's not is fairly ignorant. But I also think it's great the black metal is being used to fight against racism as well. We just need some good bands to do it.

Written by Mercurial on 06.06.2019 at 15:03

But I also think it's great the black metal is being used to fight against racism as well. We just need some good bands to do it.

Well, that was the initial idea behind this list...

But unfortunately, it seems that anti-NSBM is pretty much dominated by amateurish acts like Neckbeard Deathcamp who can present nothing but retrogressive, generic BM where even the smallest traces of talent are buried deep down under a thick layer of overly exaggerated all-caps rants, groundless accusations and double moral standards.
Maybe it's a matter of character, you don't necessarily have to holler out your opinion at full volume to express yourself. Panopticon is a good example for subliminal resistance AND good music. Everyone knows Austin has a strong aversion to fascism and racism, but you'll have to search for clues hinting his attitude with a magnifying glass.

Written by Mercurial on 06.06.2019 at 15:03

This is especially compounded by the abundance of black metal bands that have racist members that don't feature their views in their music. I'm guessing if MA had a way to itemise this it would be a hell of a lot higher than 500. Black metal is racist in its bones. To say it's not is fairly ignorant. But I also think it's great the black metal is being used to fight against racism as well. We just need some good bands to do it.

I fail to see how black metal can be considered "racist in its bones". This would imply that as a black metal artist, I have to specifically do something differently from the average bm band in order for my music not to be - at least to some degree - racist... I don't think that is the case.

Written by Metren on 06.06.2019 at 17:24

I fail to see how black metal can be considered "racist in its bones". This would imply that as a black metal artist, I have to specifically do something differently from the average bm band in order for my music not to be - at least to some degree - racist... I don't think that is the case.

More that it is still a harbour for extremist viewpoints. Not implying that if you're in a black metal band you might be racist, but just that I think a person has to recognise the history and some of the existing members associated with it. At least compared to other genres (not too many racist power metal or melodeath bands to my knowledge). It started out as extreme, and even though it's mellowed and diversified over the years, NSBM still exists.

Written by Mercurial on 06.06.2019 at 17:35

More that it is still a harbour for extremist viewpoints. Not implying that if you're in a black metal band you might be racist, but just that I think a person has to recognise the history and some of the existing members associated with it. At least compared to other genres (not too many racist power metal or melodeath bands to my knowledge). It started out as extreme, and even though it's mellowed and diversified over the years, NSBM still exists.

That I can agree with, obviously, thanks for clarifying

There are two things with regard to this that I consider important, the first being that all decent and good people in bm acknowledge the existence of ns/racist bands and fanbases and condemn them in the harshest terms possible and the second being that bm as simply a combination of types of sounds should not be considered inherently evil or racist or anything. When those two go hand-in-hand, I think in time racists and nazis will no longer feel like the bm scene is a safe space for them.

Also, @ Starvynth: thumbs up for the list. Some of the song titles/album titles alone are worth it

Written by Metren on 06.06.2019 at 17:48

Also, @ Starvynth: thumbs up for the list. Some of the song titles/album titles alone are worth it

Thanks!
My current favorite's most probably "Odin Doesn't Listen To NSBM You Inbred Alt-right Shitheels".

Really happy you're making this list and I really support this kind of thing in the scene. Its all about making all these closet-Nazis uncomfortable in the scene. If you want to be an open Nazi go for it, then own what you are and what you believe in and play explicitly branded Nazi-shows in Nazi-safe spaces and see how it goes for you then. I wish more bands would outwardly take stances simply being explicitly anti-fascist, I don't need full on lyrical content, but it's all about baby steps. Keep fighting the good fight friends!

Written by Auntie Sahar on 29.05.2019 at 05:08

Inspired by my recent review, eh? Well, this list definitely gets the thumb up from me. Seeing the "regardless of musical quality" disclaimer sort of casts how good each these albums are into doubt though.... any one in particular that you'd recommend that actually has some pretty decent musicianship to it?

Not sure about OP but I'd recommend the Book Of Sand entry.
Also the rest of their discog.

Written by Karlabos on 08.06.2019 at 16:08

Not sure about OP but I'd recommend the Book Of Sand entry.
Also the rest of their discog.

Almost forgot about this song but you're right, it's pretty brilliant.

Written by Starvynth on 06.06.2019 at 14:56

Written by [user id=173045] on 06.06.2019 at 09:54

Nazism is an anti-individual ideology so you can add 95% of all black metal to this list as black metal traditionally is a genre that hates all forms of ideology that are founded on a central tenet. [...]
Black metal is anti-fascism [...]

That's why it says "Black Metal with a clear message against nazism, fascism or racism". I fail to recognize this message in at least 99% of all black metal releases.

It took me around five hours to compile a rather pathetic quantity of just 50 anti-NSBM songs whereas round about 500 NSBM albums are just two mouse clicks away. And this is just the tip of the iceberg as the substantially identical label "RAC / metal" is still being used as a synonym and replacement for NSBM and to conceal dubious intentions.

I could rec quite a few bands but they show instead of telling, there isnt a clear message, instead its an artful message that tries to create something good within its genre. But if it has to be a clear message, then these bands usually has a cover that tells, but few of them would put that on a full-length. Woe is such a band and has such a cover, but are more artistic on their full-lengths.


Its easy to find nsbm bands because very few of them have any relation to the deeper arts and non of them are trying to create something groundbreaking in the genre. Most of them come from racist homes and they never had the chance to study so the only thing they can is to yell and tell like their fathers did.