The nominees for the 'extreme metal' categories are a complete joke..

+ You would expect to have actual BLACK METAL in that exact category, but no, in actuality ALL OF these pre-set nominees are all severe cross-over 'black metal' bands (avantgarde/post-bm/industrial/...).. and most of them are complete shit. How do you make a 2011 bm-shortlist/nomineelist without Absu? =/
Also the seperation of 'regular' BLACK METAL and MELODIC BLACK METAL is rather redundant, no? Adding Forgotten Tomb to MELODIC BM, while it has as much of a groove composition as Glorior Belli, which is put in the BLACK METAL category , and so on..

+ How did NECROS CHRISTOS 'Doom of the Occult' not make the DEATH METAL shortlist ?

+ What the h*ll is the difference between DOOM METAL and EXTREME DOOM METAL when both categories have melodic and monotonous doom nominees in them ?

~

>> Why not introduce an all-open-entry "enter your own top-## per genre - system" , which would be a whole less biased and redundant as this one ?

Written by [user id=127414] on 04.02.2012 at 04:11

The nominees for the 'extreme metal' categories are a complete joke..

+ You would expect to have actual BLACK METAL in that exact category, but no, in actuality ALL OF these pre-set nominees are all severe cross-over 'black metal' bands (avantgarde/post-bm/industrial/...).. and most of them are complete shit. How do you make a 2011 bm-shortlist/nomineelist without Absu? =/
Also the seperation of 'regular' BLACK METAL and MELODIC BLACK METAL is rather redundant, no? Adding Forgotten Tomb to MELODIC BM, while it has as much of a groove composition as Glorior Belli, which is put in the BLACK METAL category , and so on..

+ How did NECROS CHRISTOS 'Doom of the Occult' not make the DEATH METAL shortlist ?

+ What the h*ll is the difference between DOOM METAL and EXTREME DOOM METAL when both categories have melodic and monotonous doom nominees in them ?

~

>> Why not introduce an all-open-entry "enter your own top-## per genre - system" , which would be a whole less biased and redundant as this one ?

You can always write in your vote... Instead of bitching that you favourite band didn't make the cut.

And post your ranting in the actual official news thread.

I don't care much for trolling meme's..

Looks like you missed the point completely there. The "BLACK METAL" category has almost no actual Black Metal bands in it. Without going into the endless and redundant discussion of "what is black metal?", I think it's safe to say that Glorior Belli's new take on southern black 'n roll, Anaal Nathrash cross-over blackish crustgrindcore, Blut Aus Nord's atmospheric (nearly ambient) avantgarde metal, Cloak of Alterings messy avantgarde electronic programmings, or the post-black antics of O.P. are not exactly all too close to the genre of the category at hand here.. If you would incorporate all such side-tracks of BM into this one category, while still seperating a catagory for MELO BM seems rather useless. Either seperate further, or unite them into one.. seems more logical.

I have to admit, that my choice for "Absu" for black metal would not be completely justified in that reasonging either, considering there is a vast amount of 'thrash" in there as well. my bad. Though I still believe that there would be a lot more suitable candidates, even if we conclude 2011 as another fairly poor year for black metal.

Even if you disagree, you can write in your own vote. I don't understand why everbody gets so butthurt when their favourite band isn't included. Black metal has all of those bands because black metal itself has 82345728452045838 sub genres, to split it all up would be ludacris.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 04.02.2012 at 07:02

Even if you disagree, you can write in your own vote. I don't understand why everbody gets so butthurt when their favourite band isn't included. Black metal has all of those bands because black metal itself has 82345728452045838 sub genres, to split it all up would be ludacris.

I don't think he's butthurt over his favourite bands not being nominated, but more just nit-picking over our genre categorization. As well as the fact that we included interesting titles in the BM category rather than just throwing in more uncreative overdone records that stick to the traditional black metal sound.

It's odd, every year sees a landslide of bitching posts, but no one remembers the actual complaints, just the fact that there's a lot of them. Goes to show how purposeful it actually is.

Well, I think all the nominations, and genre split-ups are fantastic, Props to the Staff.

Still can't decide on who to vote for in the thrash department.

I'm leaning towards Skeletonwitch.

I do find it funny someone with such fine ability to nitpick and categorize various subgenre deviations and explorations of black metal cannot understand the difference between "doom" and "extreme doom".

as for no black metal in black metal... well, perhaps we just found the more orthodox bands more, well, monotonous, and as a general whole our individual, and thus collective, tastes veered more towards bands that seemed to be doing something different rather than color-by-numbers.

finally, seeing as his own choice is not purebred, he just pisses all over his own wheaties.

thanks for the lols. it's the pay off for all the hours we log.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 04.02.2012 at 07:02

Even if you disagree, you can write in your own vote. I don't understand why everbody gets so butthurt when their favourite band isn't included. Black metal has all of those bands because black metal itself has 82345728452045838 sub genres, to split it all up would be ludacris.

Take a chill bor. Well, Solemn la la la is new to the market(MS platform), let him discover more about Black Metal(he is completely lacking atm!!) and have a more spins of it. allow him to settle it down.

Yeah. The nominations became a complete joke!

That guy was fucking hilarious. Love it.

Also, what's the porpuse of this thread anyway? we already have an official award thread. This one should be closed by now.

Written by [user id=127414] on 04.02.2012 at 05:13

Looks like you missed the point completely there. The "BLACK METAL" category has almost no actual Black Metal bands in it. Without going into the endless and redundant discussion of "what is black metal?", I think it's safe to say that Glorior Belli's new take on southern black 'n roll, Anaal Nathrash cross-over blackish crustgrindcore, Blut Aus Nord's atmospheric (nearly ambient) avantgarde metal, Cloak of Alterings messy avantgarde electronic programmings, or the post-black antics of O.P. are not exactly all too close to the genre of the category at hand here.. If you would incorporate all such side-tracks of BM into this one category, while still seperating a catagory for MELO BM seems rather useless. Either seperate further, or unite them into one.. seems more logical.

These are your opinions and justifications. We had ours and we based our choices on them. If we were to ask the opinion of every single MS user, we would never ever manage to make a list of nominees, because there would be so many different opinions.

So, take it or leave it, these are the nominees as we see them. It's not that hard to understand, eh?

Huh... I haven't really thought about it until this guy mentioned it, but it is a bit odd that there are virtually no traditional black metal albums amongst the nominees. Guess it's because Watain didn't release anything in 2011 or something.

Written by Slayer666 on 04.02.2012 at 14:50

Huh... I haven't really thought about it until this guy mentioned it, but it is a bit odd that there are virtually no traditional black metal albums amongst the nominees. Guess it's because Watain didn't release anything in 2011 or something.

because the traditional black metal albums that were released just weren't up to scratch compared to what was nominated.

You guys really are quite the champions in grasping completely beside the point, but nevermind.. my votes are in.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.02.2012 at 15:38

because the traditional black metal albums that were released just weren't up to scratch compared to what was nominated.

Oh, I agree, but I still think it's a bit odd that there is fairly little actual "black" amongst the nominees.
These awards are pretty much a prime example how much black metal has evolved over the years.

Written by [user id=127414] on 04.02.2012 at 20:09

You guys really are quite the champions in grasping completely beside the point, but nevermind.. my votes are in.

Nobody digressed from your point. You complaint was the lack of traditional black metal which can comfortably sit in the black metal category, rather than the genre bending nominees. They replied by saying that the traditional black metal albums lacked creativity (to which I agree) and basically sucked when compared to the present nominees.

Top 10 of 2011 list: #9 Obscura - Omnivium
(Goes to look at Death Metal Category.....not even listed)
lolwat?

Written by VloRD on 05.02.2012 at 12:11

Written by [user id=127414] on 04.02.2012 at 20:09

You guys really are quite the champions in grasping completely beside the point, but nevermind.. my votes are in.

Nobody digressed from your point. You complaint was the lack of traditional black metal which can comfortably sit in the black metal category, rather than the genre bending nominees. They replied by saying that the traditional black metal albums lacked creativity (to which I agree) and basically sucked when compared to the present nominees.

That was the initial first point of it, yeah. But the general point thereafter was "Why still divide BM and MELO BM in seperate categories, if you're going to neglect the actual genres while nominating your candidates anyway..?"

Anyway, as I've mentioned, my votes are in. BEST BM of 2011 : Avichi - The Devil's Fractal

Written by [user id=127414] on 05.02.2012 at 19:11

"Why still divide BM and MELO BM in seperate categories, if you're going to neglect the actual genres while nominating your candidates anyway..?"

I don't understand the point of your question tbh. Since a traditional BM album would classify under the BM category like, let's say Taake... Why do you bring the Melo BM category then since it doesn't have anything to do with such a band? I see you disagree with the overall staff thought of what's black and what's not... To that I can't say nothing that hasn't be said already.

We aren't neglecting anything, some of the staff enjoyed some more traditional BM albums... some other's didn't and in the end those albums sadly didn't make the cut for the final ten. There's nothing more to it, not neglecting, not abuse of power, no nothing... Don't think our opinion is collective, in the end we disagree a lot, which is natural if the staff has many users discussing. Everything ends up as majority of votes and this year the traditional side of BM didn't make it.

It's pointless. just like everyone else that whines about nominations, the only view that is correct is the posters. doesn't mater if we had 123 albums we voted on in the category, we just didn't pick the ones HE wanted, ergo we are wrong.

Written by BitterCOld on 05.02.2012 at 22:24
ergo we are wrong.

I'll guess I have to learn to live with it....

Yeah, bending around the words while wrapping it all into farce is a way to make it dissapear, I guess. I'm done explaining my point.
Ergo, Hipster Black Metal is the new kvlt! ..

Written by [user id=127414] on 06.02.2012 at 02:08

Yeah, bending around the words while wrapping it all into farce is a way to make it dissapear, I guess. I'm done explaining my point.
Ergo, Hipster Black Metal is the new kvlt! ..

lolwut?

Written by Slayer666 on 04.02.2012 at 14:50

Huh... I haven't really thought about it until this guy mentioned it, but it is a bit odd that there are virtually no traditional black metal albums amongst the nominees. Guess it's because Watain didn't release anything in 2011 or something.

Yeah, lots of good black metal overlooked. Negative Plane - Stained Glass Revelations (this site even gave it a 9.0 in a review, just shows that they don't stand behind their reviews), False - False, Leviathan - True Traitor, True Whore, Wolvhammer - The Obsidian Plains, and Dragged Into Sunlight - Hatred For Mankind. Whatever, the winners of these awards are biased because it's based on the nominations of a select few. What really should happen is that all the genres should be write-in only so that none of the winners are chosen by any bias at all.

"yah, i don't get multiple versions of doom, but have no problem breaking anything non-ortho bm into a separate field and ripping people for having opinions that differ from mine. thrash-bm Absu is awesome. so is color-by-number acts replicating that which has come before. but anything that incorporates an element outside of thrash or orthodox black is hipster-kvlt."

shorthand:

Darkclones = awesome.

not copying anything released 20 years ago and daring to incorporate an influence outside of Oslo 1993 or SF 1983 = hipster crap

Written by [user id=20536] on 06.02.2012 at 06:01

Written by Slayer666 on 04.02.2012 at 14:50

Huh... I haven't really thought about it until this guy mentioned it, but it is a bit odd that there are virtually no traditional black metal albums amongst the nominees. Guess it's because Watain didn't release anything in 2011 or something.

Yeah, lots of good black metal overlooked. Negative Plane - Stained Glass Revelations (this site even gave it a 9.0 in a review, just shows that they don't stand behind their reviews), False - False, Leviathan - True Traitor, True Whore, Wolvhammer - The Obsidian Plains, and Dragged Into Sunlight - Hatred For Mankind. Whatever, the winners of these awards are biased because it's based on the nominations of a select few. What really should happen is that all the genres should be write-in only so that none of the winners are chosen by any bias at all.

So let me get this straight... the same guy advocating deferring nominations to the masses is also advocating turning over nominations to one singular reviewer's opinion? as a guy doing 50 a year, i like this concept. My opinion apparently trumps yours. Taking the time to write 500 words >>> just clicking a number.

By that notion, you, oh he of zero reviews, should have no voice... so why are you whining?

Written by BitterCOld on 06.02.2012 at 06:09

Written by [user id=20536] on 06.02.2012 at 06:01

Written by Slayer666 on 04.02.2012 at 14:50

Huh... I haven't really thought about it until this guy mentioned it, but it is a bit odd that there are virtually no traditional black metal albums amongst the nominees. Guess it's because Watain didn't release anything in 2011 or something.

Yeah, lots of good black metal overlooked. Negative Plane - Stained Glass Revelations (this site even gave it a 9.0 in a review, just shows that they don't stand behind their reviews), False - False, Leviathan - True Traitor, True Whore, Wolvhammer - The Obsidian Plains, and Dragged Into Sunlight - Hatred For Mankind. Whatever, the winners of these awards are biased because it's based on the nominations of a select few. What really should happen is that all the genres should be write-in only so that none of the winners are chosen by any bias at all.

So let me get this straight... the same guy advocating deferring nominations to the masses is also advocating turning over nominations to one singular reviewer's opinion? as a guy doing 50 a year, i like this concept. My opinion apparently trumps yours. Taking the time to write 500 words >>> just clicking a number.

By that notion, you, oh he of zero reviews, should have no voice... so why are you whining?

Probably sticking my nose where I shouldn't here, as I'm not sure I grasp the black metal vs 'hipster' black metal debate that seems to be going on, but I think BlueMobius is just giving examples as to why he thinks there should be more 'traditional' (at least I think that's what's being suggested) black metal albums included. He's not placing his allegiance to one individuals opinion but acknowledging that opinions differ on the matter of whether there was actually any good 'traditional' black metal albums last year and their supposed absence from the award nominations. At least that's what I gathered from his post.

Written by R'Vannith on 06.02.2012 at 06:48

Probably sticking my nose where I shouldn't here, as I'm not sure I grasp the black metal vs 'hipster' black metal debate that seems to be going on, but I think BlueMobius is just giving examples as to why he thinks there should be more 'traditional' (at least I think that's what's being suggested) black metal albums included. He's not placing his allegiance to one individuals opinion but acknowledging that opinions differ on the matter of whether there was actually any good 'traditional' black metal albums last year and their supposed absence from the award nominations. At least that's what I gathered from his post.

blues is primarily whining because ABSU wasn't included... stating based upon popular opinion it *should* be. then apparently rips us for not having one singular reviewer's opinion trump the collective staff opinion. so one reviewer apparently should trump collective Team MS, and users should also trump Team MS. so our opinion shouldn't matter. awesome. 2012 will be much easier with no obligated reviews to do. god forbid i/we have an opinion.

the other dude also loved ABSU, a thrash-black hybrid, and whined about orthodox bm not being included. even if ABSU is not orthodox.

it's all the same shit. folks whining because what they think should be nominated (under whatever circumstantial arguments they care to present - the masses or one single opinion, in Blues case) wasn't.

our collective opinion differed from their opinion.

boo. fucking. hoo.

I'm not thrilled Krallice, Agrypnie, Ebonylake, Aosoth, Epheles, or Tsuder didn't make our 10, but i'm not going to bitch about it incessantly... i'm happy a couple albums I like were amongst the 20 or so staff/elite voter's favorites and vote in the MSA's accordingly.

shit fire satam, there were 120+ albums voted on in the Bm category alone. they all cannot make it, and even if we acquiesced to mass appeal, and voted solely the popular bands (by virtue of popularity... or orthodox by orthodoxy) we'd still have people up in arms. and the awards would be nothing more than a horrible popularity farce... as in Behemoth wins everything in Terrorizer mag even if Nergal takes the year off.

i encourage those who feel slighted to start their own sights and their own awards (or in S23's case, feel free to do your own awards), so folks like me can tell them how fucked they all are when their opinions don't line up with what I think is the best shit from last year.

it's fucking music, it's an art form. not everyone's opinions are in line... and thank jebus for it.

Written by BitterCOld on 06.02.2012 at 07:15



blues is primarily whining because ABSU wasn't included... stating based upon popular opinion it *should* be. then apparently rips us for not having one singular reviewer's opinion trump the collective staff opinion. so one reviewer apparently should trump collective Team MS, and users should also trump Team MS. so our opinion shouldn't matter. awesome. 2012 will be much easier with no obligated reviews to do. god forbid i/we have an opinion.

I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying. I'm saying staff album reviews are supposed to reflect the opinion of the website itself. That's why guest reviews of new albums are delayed and have a disclaimer. I'm saying that it's ironic that the website can give a band a 9.0 and then turn around and say "because the traditional black metal albums that were released just weren't up to scratch compared to what was nominated." (-Marcel) when the site obviously reviewed "traditional black metal albums" and gave them high scores. My comment there had nothing to do with Absu.