So do the fans get a cut of the big cash that's going to be generated renting out the studio to other bands?

Written by IBlackened on 04.04.2017 at 23:10

They're selling a product, people are buying it. What's the problem here?

I think the problem is the objective of selling some digital files for 50 bucks. Wintersun is signed to the biggest (?) metal label yet they have to beg for money not only to offer a product, since the album is going to be released by NB, but to build a studio/sauna the band does not need to pursue their work. So the compaign is based on a useless caprice, and people buy in.

So just as people can spend their money on whatever they want, it's also quite logical to criticize the requiring of a own-studio funded by fans that won't see any particular benefit, because without the sauna-studio, wintersun could continue to work as any other band in the world, more so when signed to a huge label that always gives substantial studio funds. It's also quite an insult to every other band that work their ass off to produce something, even more when you are already being supported by a big label.
The whole idea of "let others pays for my expenses, I'll produce just something" is such a shitty mentality that is really becoming common (and not only concerning music industry).

To offer a product that sells doesn't mean it is always a great thing.

Written by Vombatus on 05.04.2017 at 00:40

Written by IBlackened on 04.04.2017 at 23:10

They're selling a product, people are buying it. What's the problem here?

I think the problem is the objective of selling some digital files for 50 bucks. Wintersun is signed to the biggest (?) metal label yet they have to beg for money not only to offer a product, since the album is going to be released by NB, but to build a studio/sauna the band does not need to pursue their work. So the compaign is based on a useless caprice, and people buy in.

So just as people can spend their money on whatever they want, it's also quite logical to criticize the requiring of a own-studio funded by fans that won't see any particular benefit, because without the sauna-studio, wintersun could continue to work as any other band in the world, more so when signed to a huge label that always gives substantial studio funds. It's also quite an insult to every other band that work their ass off to produce something, even more when you are already being supported by a big label.
The whole idea of "let others pays for my expenses, I'll produce just something" is such a shitty mentality that is really becoming common (and not only concerning music industry).

To offer a product that sells doesn't mean it is always a great thing.

I understand where you're coming from, but he's not just asking for money; he's offering something. You may think it's overpriced and not worth, but this is not a donation.

Written by Liafev on 04.04.2017 at 21:37

Grow up guys! If you don't want to give your money, no one forces you to do so, but it's high time for you to accept and respect those who did it.

That's high level of begging.

You talking about respect?! Giving money to beggars doesn't accord you to earn respect. How much whore could Wintersun could be!? They increased the stakes to 428,310 euros. No fucking wonder if they could have raised to $1.1M, you crackpots still would have helped them to achieved it.

And please don't get me started over music Wintersun possesses.

But that just doesn't make any sense man, there're a million things in the world with which I don't agree, lots of them being way more important than this. What do you waste your time wining about this when the worst outcome would be that other people than you lost money ? What you're doing is really the level 0 of tolerance.
And then, why not talking about music ? You don't like it, then go hate somewhere else, you're useless here. You like it ? Then why the fuck are you complaining, they'll make plenty of new music thanks to this campaign.

Written by IBlackened on 05.04.2017 at 03:00

I understand where you're coming from, but he's not just asking for money; he's offering something. You may think it's overpriced and not worth, but this is not a donation.

Actually, this campaign does sound like a donation. What he offers are a bunch of overpriced digital files that are going to be put into physical form by Nuclear Blast for a lesser price. If I was a wintersun fan, I'd much prefer to get a cd/vinyl for a normal price (just like I do with any other band) rather than paying three times more for some digifiles. What advantage do I get for the digifiles? Does it justify spending more for less?
The only advantage of the second option is that there is no advantage, the money is going to fund a studio-sauna which doesn't have an impact on any contributor.
Again, feel free to spend money but it does not seem a rational decision.

There could be a way for Wintersun to sort of re-pay some of the "loan" they got from their fans. That is when they are free from Nuclear Blast. It can be done by simply releasing Time II as a free digital download. After all, the music has already been written and that's the album that everyone has been waiting for. The recording is what's been delaying that release.

I didn't participate in this crowd funding, but I respect the fans who did and it shows how big the demand for this band really is. Hats off to the band, and of course the fans.

Time II better be real fucking good.

Best case scenario - This is the last of the Wintersun drama saga. They get their studio, make a ton of revenue renting out to other bands, start popping off an album a year, and everyone tries to forget the last 10 years of bullshit.

Likely scenario - They get their studio, generate a ton of revenue renting out to other bands, release Time II, then put out an album once every 3-4 years. They then start a crowdfunding campaign to raise an additional 500k for the Wintersun Sauna / Hot Tub / Massage Parlor because their arms and hands are too cramped and carpel tunneled to get the right epic strumming for their new 4-song masterpiece, Time III.

Written by WorpeX on 05.04.2017 at 14:23

Time II better be real fucking good.

Probably the only thing composed for Time II is some longreads by Jari about why it has not been released yet.

Written by EricAxel36 on 05.04.2017 at 00:21

So do the fans get a cut of the big cash that's going to be generated renting out the studio to other bands?

I think people who gave money didn't see an investment opportunity, just a way to support a band they like. New albums will be more than enough as rewards.

Written by Liafev on 05.04.2017 at 20:02

Written by EricAxel36 on 05.04.2017 at 00:21

So do the fans get a cut of the big cash that's going to be generated renting out the studio to other bands?

I think people who gave money didn't see an investment opportunity, just a way to support a band they like. New albums will be more than enough as rewards.

It's amazing. People don't give a damn how other bands spend their money, but when it's Wintersun... "hurr durr sauna".

Written by Vombatus on 05.04.2017 at 13:19

Written by IBlackened on 05.04.2017 at 03:00

I understand where you're coming from, but he's not just asking for money; he's offering something. You may think it's overpriced and not worth, but this is not a donation.

Actually, this campaign does sound like a donation. What he offers are a bunch of overpriced digital files that are going to be put into physical form by Nuclear Blast for a lesser price. If I was a wintersun fan, I'd much prefer to get a cd/vinyl for a normal price (just like I do with any other band) rather than paying three times more for some digifiles. What advantage do I get for the digifiles? Does it justify spending more for less?
The only advantage of the second option is that there is no advantage, the money is going to fund a studio-sauna which doesn't have an impact on any contributor.
Again, feel free to spend money but it does not seem a rational decision.

Ok, I get it. You think it's dumb to support a band you enjoy. That's fine, but they're not offering the same thing as Nuclear Blast. NB will handle only the physical copies of their new album, which I'm not interested. The remasters and everything else won't be released physically, at least that's what Jari said.

Written by IBlackened on 05.04.2017 at 20:50

You think it's dumb to support a band you enjoy.

I do? You seem to have reading comprehension problems.
Next time, I must remember how pointless it is to have a conversation with people with such issues.

Written by BitterCOld on 04.04.2017 at 16:50

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Theres a chump born every minute.

Seriously though, once Jari still manages to take forfuckingever to put out the next polished turd, he won't have any more scapegoats...My bet is he'll start blaming fans for not throwing enough money at him.

My final word on this is: If the quality of your work is 100% dependant on your studio, that speaks volumes about you as an artist, as been proven by many amazing bands who put out phenomenal work on minimal budget.

Written by Vombatus on 05.04.2017 at 21:13

Written by IBlackened on 05.04.2017 at 20:50

You think it's dumb to support a band you enjoy.

I do? You seem to have reading comprehension problems.
Next time, I must remember how pointless it is to have a conversation with people with such issues.

You said: "feel free to spend money but it does not seem a rational decision." So what is it not rational exactly? Participating in this campaign? So how am I wrong in that statement? You're not making sense here.

Written by IBlackened on 05.04.2017 at 22:41

You said: "feel free to spend money but it does not seem a rational decision." So what is it not rational exactly? Participating in this campaign? So how am I wrong in that statement? You're not making sense here.

Instead of quoting a single concluding sentence, try to read the other parts of my posts. You'll find the answer there.

"Hurr durr why people give their money to this guy to build his sauna."

It doesn't matter if you think it's stupid or not. Why there are so many people caring this much about how people want to spend their money? I could care less about this whole drama and Jari's annoying "campaign package forest check your notifications something something facebook algorithm" spam shit. When it's out i'm gonna listen it on Spotify and i'm sure i'm gonna enjoy it.

Written by Andreas on 05.04.2017 at 19:34

Written by WorpeX on 05.04.2017 at 14:23

Time II better be real fucking good.

Probably the only thing composed for Time II is some longreads by Jari about why it has not been released yet.

Time II might transcend mortality and grant us gifts from the gods. If Time I was as good as it is, then giving Wintersun and Jari the tools for future albums and Time II will push them to get more done and do bigger productions.

Realistically, if pop artists can make 20 million a year playing the same three chord songs over and over, transposed over different keys by way of capos, then I am all for supporting a metal band in their crowdfunding, especially when their ambitions are bigger than their tools and living spaces.

Written by FeskarN on 04.04.2017 at 14:26

Jari just posted this:

Yeah... I know... I wrote this before the crowdfunding campaign was extended. Thanks for the update!

I believe this whole thread should win Drama of the Year 2017.

I'd still give those bands huge respect who strive hard to get good labels while delivering back-to-back strong releases from platforms like Bandcamp/Soundcloud/Spotify. At least what they don't believe in is begging.

What makes me more funny is not what Wintersun did rather than what blind fanboyism Wintersun's fans has shown. Hell, it wouldn't made me surprise if you folks crowdfunded for Jari's shitter as well but....that's not the point. The point is that fans can go at any level to fall for whoreness of Jari. Simple.

Written by Doc G. on 05.04.2017 at 21:54

Written by BitterCOld on 04.04.2017 at 16:50

My final word on this is: If the quality of your work is 100% dependant on your studio, that speaks volumes about you as an artist, as been proven by many amazing bands who put out phenomenal work on minimal budget.

Someone should send Jari to Heavenshore studios (if it was still around, that is).

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.04.2017 at 14:38

It is now official... die-hard Wintersun fans are the most stupid of the stupid.

Someone even posted something on my facebook regarding this shite! I need to defriend the guy for thinking I was interested in Wintersun and their "problems"

Written by IBlackened on 05.04.2017 at 20:50


Ok, I get it. You think it's dumb to support a band you enjoy. That's fine, but they're not offering the same thing as Nuclear Blast. NB will handle only the physical copies of their new album, which I'm not interested. The remasters and everything else won't be released physically, at least that's what Jari said.

There is a difference between supporting and enabling.

Supporting is buying their albums, merch, seeing shows. If unsigned, yeah, kicking in a few bucks to a kick starter with a reasonable goal to record an album.

Raising half a million or more to buy a band their own studio (and the band wanting you to kick in more to pay the freaking taxes on their new property) is absurd. doubly so when you consider the fact the band puts out albums with the regularity of Halley's Comet passing the Earth.

And while I dislike Wintersun, I like Tool and would react the same if they made similar projects.

Hell, I love Enslaved but would scoff if they asked for 250k, and they have put out 9 albums in the last 17 years.

Finally, if you are going to ask fro big amounts to fund your album, at least come up with cool rewards for donors, like Josh Freese of The Vandals/A Perfect Circle. This is how you crowdfund. which have a quite personal touch for any donations starting at what WS is asking and go nuts the farther up you go.

$50

- CD/DVD double-disc set

- T-shirt

- "Thank you" phone call from Josh for buying Since 1972. You can tell him what you like about the record that you purchased, or what you thought sucked. Ask whatever you want, like "Is Maynard really THAT weird?" or "Which one of Sting's mansions has the comfiest beds?" or "Are Devo really suburban robots that monitor reality or just a bunch of dads from Ohio?" or "Why don't the Vandals play more stuff off the first record?" It's your 5 minutes to yack it up. Talk about whatever you want.



___________________________


$20,000 (limited edition of 1)

- Signed CD/DVD and digital download

- T-shirt

- A signed drum from the 2008 Nine Inch Nails tour

- Maynard James Keenan, Mark Mothersbaugh from Devo and Josh take you miniature golfing and then drop you off on the side of the freeway (all filmed and posted on YouTube)

- Josh gives you a tour of Long Beach. See his first apartment, the coffee shop on 2nd Street where his buddy paid Dave Grohl $40 to rip up tile just weeks before joining Nirvana. See the old Vandals rehearsal spot, the liquor store he got busted at using a Fake ID when he was 17 (it was Dave from the Vandals' old ID). Go check out Snoop Dogg's high school. For an extra 50 bucks see where Tom and Adrian from No Doubt live. For another $25 he'll show ya where Eric from NOFX and Brooks from Bad Religion get their hair cut.

- Spend the night aboard the Queen Mary and take the "Ghosts and Legends" tour. (Separate rooms ? no spooning.)

- Josh writes 2 songs about you and both are made available on iTunes and appear on his next record (you can sing back up on 'em, clap, play the drums, triangle, whatever)

- Drum lesson OR foot and back massage (once again ? couples welcome and discreet parking available)

- Pick any 3 items out of Josh's closet

Jari asked if people wanted to share his vision and dreams. People say "YES". I prefer to be part of something "absurd" and "utopic" than be part of nothing. Jari brought me a lot of joy ans still do everytime i listen to the "too" few albums.

AND 50? is not much to think than we can help artist to be free of labels and majors. More artists should do this and speak to the fans directly.

(sorry for bad anglish)

They're selling their album using a crowdfunding platform. I never saw the band asking for money. They were asking people to buy their package and that's what almost every backer did, which to me sounds like a pretty normal trade. The only difference is that they said what they're gonna do with that money. "Please buy our package. And with that money, we'll build our studio". That's it. And before people say: "but it's a crowdfunding, they should tell us what they'll do with the money". Well, the only thing being offered here is that package and who backed knows that and will receive that.

Jari is of course a ridiculous individual, but I have no problems with this.

They put together a package, stamped a price on it... and a lot of people paid for it.

Cool.

Written by BitterCOld on 06.04.2017 at 16:13

Written by IBlackened on 05.04.2017 at 20:50


Ok, I get it. You think it's dumb to support a band you enjoy. That's fine, but they're not offering the same thing as Nuclear Blast. NB will handle only the physical copies of their new album, which I'm not interested. The remasters and everything else won't be released physically, at least that's what Jari said.

There is a difference between supporting and enabling.

Supporting is buying their albums, merch, seeing shows. If unsigned, yeah, kicking in a few bucks to a kick starter with a reasonable goal to record an album.

Raising half a million or more to buy a band their own studio (and the band wanting you to kick in more to pay the freaking taxes on their new property) is absurd. doubly so when you consider the fact the band puts out albums with the regularity of Halley's Comet passing the Earth.

While I understand that raising half a million dollars to build a studio may sound absurd, is it right to keep some of our most creative and ambitious musicians confined to apartment walls? Whilst our Pop Stars dwell in million dollar mansions and recording studios, churning out album after album of simplistic, three chord song bullshit that may as well be $0 with how much value and substance they actually give you?

With a band like Wintersun, you actually have to put in the time to understand the music. It's been a year since I first listened to Time I, and I am still picking up new things from it.