Written by [user id=2144] on 22.05.2007 at 20:06

Well, Euronymous MADE BM and that is a fact. Nothing before Mayhem can be called "true" black...

What would you classify Bathory's first three albums as, then?

Written by BitterCOld on 22.05.2007 at 20:36

Written by [user id=2144] on 22.05.2007 at 20:06

Well, Euronymous MADE BM and that is a fact. Nothing before Mayhem can be called "true" black...

What would you classify Bathory's first three albums as, then?

Mmm, the ifrst one I will certainly call a second rate Venom rip-off, but Black Metal nonetheless, just as MF's first two ARE black metal.

Written by [user id=2144] on 22.05.2007 at 20:06

Well, Euronymous MADE BM and that is a fact. Nothing before Mayhem can be called "true" black...

right on, i mean bathory was just another heavy metal band...

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 22.05.2007 at 20:40

Written by BitterCOld on 22.05.2007 at 20:36

Written by [user id=2144] on 22.05.2007 at 20:06

Well, Euronymous MADE BM and that is a fact. Nothing before Mayhem can be called "true" black...

What would you classify Bathory's first three albums as, then?

Mmm, the ifrst one I will certainly call a second rate Venom rip-off, but Black Metal nonetheless, just as MF's first two ARE black metal.

Point and opinion taken. Let's not press too hard on the opinion though- I wouldn't want a slew of bands to start showing up on Metal-Archives sorted into a "Second Rate Venom Rip-Off" genre/movement... that would just open a can of worms that is better left unopened.

And the fact that Darkthrone released two albums called "A Blaze.." and "Under A.." in '92 and '93 is also something to neglect.

Well, if anyone cares than most of the people from Norwegian "kvlt" black metal scene consider Bathory as one of the first "true" BM bands, and Euronymous also didn't think of Mayhem as the first black metal band, I think that he believed the first BM bands to be Venom ( which he worshipped) and Sarcofago, though I may be wrong here, and also I don't think Bathory was Venom's ripoff, as Bathory was clearly better and more extreme than Venom, which in my opinion was just a more primitive NWOBHM band, or maybe proto-thrash.And about Euronymouses' guitar skills... well his riffs are good and I like them, but also they are pretty simple, though I don't know about the solos, as I haven't tried playing Mayhem solos yet, but they don't sound too simple. Anyway about his personality, from what I've read he seemed to be a guy with very low self esteem, who had a constant need to prove how "evil" he was, which is kind of funny, and who always made big words which he couldn't back up with actions (for example his hitlists).

Written by Lucas on 22.05.2007 at 21:10

And the fact that Darkthrone released two albums called "A Blaze.." and "Under A.." in '92 and '93 is also something to neglect.

mayhem defenetly created the 2nd wave, but they certenly did not create black metal...

Written by Damnated on 22.05.2007 at 21:22

Written by Lucas on 22.05.2007 at 21:10

And the fact that Darkthrone released two albums called "A Blaze.." and "Under A.." in '92 and '93 is also something to neglect.

mayhem defenetly created the 2nd wave, but they certenly did not create black metal...

Yes I know that. I was talking about BM in general.

Written by Lucas on 22.05.2007 at 21:28

Written by Damnated on 22.05.2007 at 21:22

Written by Lucas on 22.05.2007 at 21:10

And the fact that Darkthrone released two albums called "A Blaze.." and "Under A.." in '92 and '93 is also something to neglect.

mayhem defenetly created the 2nd wave, but they certenly did not create black metal...

Yes I know that. I was talking about BM in general.

i know i just wanted to say that

There is no one who actually created BM imo. Without venom and MF mayhem cant even think of creating something evil and grim , so just sayin ABCD created BM is totally fullish.

Yeah Mayhem is one of those pioneers second wave of BM bands , BOWS DOWN.

Written by Lucas on 22.05.2007 at 21:10

And the fact that Darkthrone released two albums called "A Blaze.." and "Under A.." in '92 and '93 is also something to neglect.

DMDS was released several years later than the initial plans. Darkthrone admit that Euro changed their point of view about the music and they transformed into BM band (Soulside Journey and the later released Goatlord are kind of Death metal, also u can here their demos. Even A blaze... is not pure black).

About Venom, Bathory, MF, Celtic Frost, Hellhammer, Tormentor, etc. - You can't call thrash metal black, imo. The only bands enough closer to BM in these early years are Hellhammer, Sarcofago, Sodom, Destruction, and maybe several more I haven't heard. Of course, the boundaries are diluted when talking about different styles.... But I mean that the first true black metal is Mayhem, after Dead joining the band... Just listen, for example, to Morbid - pure death metal... Even Deadcrush is deathened... And what about "Black Metal (Total Death version)" from Pure Fucking Armageddon? In fact, the most of the bm began with death metal stuff, and Mayhem was the first band, which turned towards BM... After them, there were many followers. But before that there is nothing... Bathory? Thrash with twisted vocals and satanic lyrics... Sorry, but this is not BM. And notions like first wave, second wave are stupid and reserved for heavy.

P.S. I have heard about Slayer being the originators of DM with their Show No Mercy... True, there are some death elements there, but is this death

Written by [user id=2144] on 23.05.2007 at 16:34

P.S. I have heard about Slayer being the originators of DM with their Show No Mercy... True, there are some death elements there, but is this death

I think Reign in Blood inspired the first Death Metal musicians actually, I could be wrong but I think it says so on Slayer's website.
Off topic, sorry!

Written by [user id=2144] on 23.05.2007 at 16:34

About Venom, Bathory, MF, Celtic Frost, Hellhammer, Tormentor, etc. - You can't call thrash metal black, imo.

you're joking, right? if you're not joking, wich is hard to believe, go listen to these bands, because it's obvious that you've never heard them

Written by [user id=2144] on 23.05.2007 at 16:34

About Venom, Bathory, MF, Celtic Frost, Hellhammer, Tormentor, etc. - You can't call thrash metal black, imo.

Seriously?
Venom: Have you heard Welcome to Hell, Black Metal, At War with Satan, Possessed etc.? The two first are Thrash IMO and the other ones contains Thrash influences.
Bathory: Requiem and Octagon?
Celtic Frost: Are you mad??? Don't you seriously hear the Thrash Metal in Celtic Frost? Listen to all their albums except Cold Lake and Monotheist.
Hellhammer: Same as with Celtic Frost.

I think he means he ONLY hears Thrash..

But why are we even continueing this discussion?

Haha, I listen to these bands enough long to form my oppinion.... What's black in them? Really, I want to know. No, I'm not joking.... I want to know... Somebody told you they are black and it's black.... hahaha

Warman:
Yeah, I've heard a lot of Venom... Euro said Venom is Black, I don't care, they are not black at all.... Wellcome to hell? Hahaha, Why are there more death covers of songs from this album than black? Or Black Metal? Mayhem covered a song or two in their early death period

Celic Frost: Yes, I'm mad.... Theyinfluenced a lot of kvlt black bands, but they are still thrash... Except their later shit, which can be the grandparent of the contemporary emoshit I'm joking, of course...

Bathory: Why do you mention albums like Requiem or Octagon? Both are good, but noth black at all.... And also, when are they released?The album Bathory is much closer to the notion black, but it is still twisted thrash...

Hellhammer? The same as CF.... Hahahaha, no comment...

Damnated: I've listened to these bands for about 10 years... I have almost everything they released... Problem?

Nervel: I can't here anything else in these bands except thrash... Maybe different thrash, but in the years when thrash was still not formed it's hard to say what is beyond thrash...

Warman:Some thrash guys can eviscerate you for your statement... Reign in Blood is not the pure thrash
ever existed?! About this album the people say: The thrash is death, long live the thrash

And what about the others? Or u haven't heard them?
What about Sarcofago, early Sodom and Destruction?
Or another nice stuff like VON?

Written by [user id=2144] on 25.05.2007 at 05:29

Haha, I listen to these bands enough long to form my oppinion.... What's black in them? Really, I want to know. No, I'm not joking.... I want to know... Somebody told you they are black and it's black.... hahaha

Warman:
Yeah, I've heard a lot of Venom... Euro said Venom is Black, I don't care, they are not black at all.... Wellcome to hell? Hahaha, Why are there more death covers of songs from this album than black? Or Black Metal? Mayhem covered a song or two in their early death period

Celic Frost: Yes, I'm mad.... Theyinfluenced a lot of kvlt black bands, but they are still thrash... Except their later shit, which can be the grandparent of the contemporary emoshit I'm joking, of course...

Bathory: Why do you mention albums like Requiem or Octagon? Both are good, but noth black at all.... And also, when are they released?The album Bathory is much closer to the notion black, but it is still twisted thrash...

Hellhammer? The same as CF.... Hahahaha, no comment...

Damnated: I've listened to these bands for about 10 years... I have almost everything they released... Problem?

Nervel: I can't here anything else in these bands except thrash... Maybe different thrash, but in the years when thrash was still not formed it's hard to say what is beyond thrash...

Warman:Some thrash guys can eviscerate you for your statement... Reign in Blood is not the pure thrash
ever existed?! About this album the people say: The thrash is death, long live the thrash

And what about the others? Or u haven't heard them?
What about Sarcofago, early Sodom and Destruction?
Or another nice stuff like VON?

Unless you haven't changed your post it's my mistake... I was sure you said "YOU CAN'T CALL THAT THRASH METAL IMO."

Written by Lucas on 24.05.2007 at 20:46

But why are we even continueing this discussion?

this is no discussion, the guy has absolutely no clue about what he's talking about. calling Von thrash metal ?!

No kidding. Von is clearly Speed Polka.

Written by BitterCOld on 25.05.2007 at 22:12

No kidding. Von is clearly Speed Polka.

No its Symphonic Epic Viking Death Doom NS Power metal with obvious influences ov 50 cent and Mozart.

Haha, gotcha... There are two possibilities: U dont read or u dont try to understand.... Sodom, Destruction, Sarcofago and VON are another cathegory.... and they are very different from Bathory, Venom, etc... IMO, THEY are the inspiration for the Black.

Damnated: You're silly... I wonder if you have heard half of the mentioned bands, including the early Mayhem.

Warman: When a post is edited AFTER a newer post available, there is a message of the type: "Last edited/modified by X, DD/MM/YYYY" in the end of the modified post. Can u see such a message? And also, u have 2 (!) posts after mine. Obviously, I havent modified anything. I thing the problem is in your garden.

I REALLY LIKE THE NEW MAYHEM ALBUM!!!!!!!

Sorry for the caps, but come on dudes. This is a Mayhem thread. The band. The music.

Let's discuss some Maaaaayheeeeeeeeem here.

All you who participated in that last discussion about BM's inspirators have more than 100 posts. So go and open a topic about it. Just don't mess with my little thread.

Thanks!!

Chimera=best album

Really? Why do you think so? I haven't heard that opinion often..

Chimera=sucks big time

this is fun, lol

I don't like Chimera at all. I don't say that it is bad album, but deffinetely not for me. I heard few song from new album, and they are promising, it sound like Meshuggah start writing Black Metal lol

Written by [user id=2144] on 27.05.2007 at 03:12

Warman: When a post is edited AFTER a newer post available, there is a message of the type: "Last edited/modified by X, DD/MM/YYYY" in the end of the modified post. Can u see such a message? And also, u have 2 (!) posts after mine. Obviously, I havent modified anything. I thing the problem is in your garden.

Haha ok ok... all you had to do was to say "no".
My mistake man.

Uhh, that is not true. That message may be there on other boards, but not here.

Shit, now I am going off-topic in my own topic.

However, he quoted me and the quote is the obvious contradiction...

Well, discussing the origins of BM can't be an offtopic in a Mayhem topic... Mayhem is more than a band, it is hystory... And everything related should be in this topic, ok?

But let's concentrate on music... I will say one more tome, that Ordo is an album beyond contemporary black... So it is something new, something that hasn't been created so far, a masterpiece which gives new life to the almost dead BM... The "older" new stuff with Maniac has also musical value, there were some valuable life releases and the EP "Wolf's..." is not bad... The experiments "Grand...." and Chimera are also interesting, but it seems that something misses there.... And the missing part is now present in Ordo...

it has the best production, the drumming is amazing and the riffs are fucking well written, fuck that raw shit man. anyone can have shitty sounding guitar. this was about chimera btw