Spin it however you'd like, it's mismanagement on behalf of MS.

For example, I'm not a fan of Slayer. However, if Slayer released a new album in 2012, and the general consensus amongst the metal community was that it was a good or great album, I'd certainly include it in any sort of "Best Thrash Album" category.

Likewise, Wintersun is a popular band that released, without argument, an album that has received a lot of attention and very good reviews. It has an average rating of over 8 on MS, and the vast majority of reviews for it from various other metal magazines and webzines have been very positive. Not only that, but it covers SEVERAL genres, not just one. Even if your own personal tastes go against it, for the sake of having a respectable and fair voting process, you should have included it.

But you didn't, due to your own personal bias. I'm not so sure why it is so difficult a concept for you to grasp.

Spin it however you want. You're just getting your panties in a twist that an album you loved didn't make it to the awards. I'm not sure why it is so difficult a concept for you to grasp.

Still though, it wouldn't be the awards without one whinge bag trying to blame management failure as the reason why something he / she liked didn't appear here. Thanks for filling in that role. Your reasoning that any popular metal album should automatically be included in the awards is utterly erroneous and completely misses the point of the awards. The staff don't owe a thing to any band just because it's popular. Learn to understand the notion of personal taste and free choice and stop wasting people's time with crybaby moaning disguised in misguided and fallacious reasoning.

Lots of people really like the new WS. lots of people were very disappointed by it, too... there were better albums released, that is all

but if you just want a mag that slavishly follows whatever is popular, maybe Terrorizer is more your speed.

Well since he's American it would probably be easier to get his hands on Hit Parader and Revolver.

Written by Italics on 26.02.2013 at 01:21

...Even if your own personal tastes go against it, for the sake of having a respectable and fair voting process, you should have included it.

But we HAVE included it, just as we have technically included every other 2012 release via giving you the 'write-in' option. The awards aren't exclusive to just the albums we collectively enjoyed & nominated you know.

If you love the album that much, write it in! Your vote counts just as much as mine or any of the other elite, staff or users of this site.

So stop moaning.

Written by psykometal on 26.02.2013 at 05:24

it would probably be easier to get his hands on Hit Parader and Revolver.

Are you kidding me? where is Rolling Stone?

They cover hell amount of Metal in it.

Written by [user id=4365] on 26.02.2013 at 03:34

Spin it however you want. You're just getting your panties in a twist that an album you loved didn't make it to the awards. I'm not sure why it is so difficult a concept for you to grasp.

Still though, it wouldn't be the awards without one whinge bag trying to blame management failure as the reason why something he / she liked didn't appear here. Thanks for filling in that role. Your reasoning that any popular metal album should automatically be included in the awards is utterly erroneous and completely misses the point of the awards. The staff don't owe a thing to any band just because it's popular. Learn to understand the notion of personal taste and free choice and stop wasting people's time with crybaby moaning disguised in misguided and fallacious reasoning.

I think you know I'm right, you're just too stubborn to admit it.

It's awards. You have a very popular metal band with an album that - whether YOU agree with it or not - got very good reviews from both critics and the majority of fans. It was one of the largest metal releases of 2012, and you don't even have it as 1 of 10 finalists in ANY category because of your own personal tastes.

I apologize that you're too dim-witted to see why that is unprofessional.

Written by Italics on 26.02.2013 at 09:46

It's awards. You have a very popular metal band with an album that - whether YOU agree with it or not - got very good reviews from both critics and the majority of fans. It was one of the largest metal releases of 2012, and you don't even have it as 1 of 10 finalists in ANY category because of your own personal tastes.

Not that it matters but a small statistic. In all the years we've had a write-in option, no band has ever won through a write-in vote. If, as you say, an album was superb and widely recognized as awesome by the metal community it surely would have happened. Since it has not happened, we reserve the right to think we've done fairly good with nominations over the years.

I.

Doesn't matter Ivor, we are clearly too unprofessional anyways. Despite the fact that the awards are meant for something completely different than for popular bands to win over and over again... But this fact goes over some people's heads. I can live with that since the majority of the people inside and outside the website appreciate our work. One complain a year is nothing.

Once again, someone's ability to be personally affected by how their tastes in music are perceived and manifested on the internet in (peculiar) forms such as an album they like not being included in a set of awards comes to pass in glorious fruition once again. The defensive barriers that are put up, like blaming everyone else around you with nonsense and desperate reasoning, just so you can have your personal tastes validated (because the the crux of what you are seeking; validation, is patently obvious to everyone engaged in this discussion) is not a substitute for intelligent and logical debate. Don't blame us for trying to make you realise that.

Ultimately though, Italics, when you consider the variety of arguments leveled against your complaint, your endless obstinate retorts of "I think you know I'm right, you're just too stubborn to admit it" and laboured one-argument points just make you sound like this:

What I think you need to understand Italics is that simply because there was no nomination for Wintersun is NOT a statement of the lack of quality of the album in question. It is a statement of the quality of the nominations, not an abject rejection of Wintersun's album. Within the category in which Wintersun is placed we collectively decided the albums nominated were better. I fail to locate the lack of professionalism in that; we don't pander to the simple fact of popularity of particular albums to make decisions. When you listen to an album why would you let the majority dictate to you what is of quality?

A set of nominees which does not include a particular album you deem of sufficient quality to be among them does not equate with lack of professionalism, merely a difference of opinion. If you have listened to the albums chosen for the melodeath category would you not agree there is a standard of quality there? Or does the simple lack of Wintersun there negate the quality of those nominated albums?

Well guys the problem here is his inability to realize that OUR Awards are not based on what the general metal community thinks are the best metal albums of 2012, OUR Awards ARE based on OUR musical tastes so OUR Awards not containing a popular release has absolutely NOTHING to do with professionalism vs. unprofessionalism. So he is 100% correct about our Awards being based on our own "bias", which is not something anybody has denied and we won't deny because it IS true. He just can't quite seem to comprehend that when things on MS are based on OPINION and NOT popularity that those in charge of MS are going to base their decisions on what they think instead of letting the opinions of others dictate their actions.

He is trying to make it about professionalism because he is just super pissed that his favorite album in a particular category did not get nominated. And being that he has been a user here for a while, he is likely more than aware of what Ivor said about non-Staff nominated albums NEVER winning the MSAs and he is incredibly upset because he knows that no matter what, Wintersun is most likely NOT going to win what he believes they so righteously deserve just for being popular and taking 8 long years to create and release.

The whole unprofessionalism rant of his is what's known as "placing the blame", it's much easier to call us unprofessional than to just realize that OUR Awards have NOTHING to do with popularity and therefore bands like Wintersun (and even Slayer) are NOT going to just slide into OUR Awards on the coattails of their past success and over-hyped attention.

So this whole "debate" basically boils down to: Italics is a TOOL and feels that we are unprofessional because we are NOT tools.

Written by Irritable Ted on 26.02.2013 at 18:11

The only thing that annoys me is the genres. The lines are so blurred now between styles, why do the Metalstorm police keep deleting my write ins. Some albums could go in three different categories, it should be my decision if I think it should go as one style or another. You have made the recommendations with your picks, let me make mine with the write in vote.

Sorry to the staff if this seems like a rant, I wouldn't want to have to do all of the extra work you do to prepare the awards, but please give the write in vote a bit of freedom.

Please refer to the discussion thread. I may have listed your write-ins that got deleted. The thing is, when the awards are over, only releases with more than 10 votes will be listed until the end of times, regardless of whether they have been officially nominated or not. If a band has 20 votes by 20 different people, but 5 each believe it belongs in a different category, then the release won't make a showing. Our aim by deleting write-ins is to give your vote the chance to actually make an impact by voting in the category, in which most people have voted for a given release.

May I ask what exactly bothers you?

Written by Irritable Ted on 26.02.2013 at 18:11

The only thing that annoys me is the genres. The lines are so blurred now between styles, why do the Metalstorm police keep deleting my write ins. Some albums could go in three different categories, it should be my decision if I think it should go as one style or another. You have made the recommendations with your picks, let me make mine with the write in vote.

I actually agree with this to some extent. While it would be absurd to put something like Evoken's Atra Mors in the "power metal" category, I could see some releases falling into multiple categories such as albums that mix avantgarde music with black metal. However, to counteract my own point, you can always (and should if you're unsure) ask the staff what the proper placement for an album is.

I'm afraid we can't please everyone. If an album gets 50 votes in category X and 5 in category Y, and if we don't let the latter five voters know, they'll blame us afterwards why nobody told them to vote in X instead. But fine by me, I won't touch the power metal vote for Wintersun anymore.

My spin on the way the MS Awards' voting system is done (i.e. if someone were to vote for Alkerdeel's Morinde in ''Sludge Metal'', despite it having an element of sludge in it, it still wouldn't count towards its final count in the ''Extreme Doom Metal'' category, where its been placed) is that, due to the blurred lines already commented on between similar categories / a bit of a mix-and-match album that encompasses hints of multiple genres, it may encourage some people, who might only dip into Metal Storm once a year to get their votes in, to not only try everything otherwise nominated in a genre they wanna vote in but also to take in the site more, as a whole. You could mistakenly vote for Wintersun's latest in the ''Power Metal'' (or even ''Symphonic Metal'' at a stretch) genre, but unless you read the opening message of the Awards, or are paying attention to the general site, you might lose your vote. As such, voting isn't just mindless (like my local political votes are for me, whereby I simply pick the prettiest candidate, because there isn't anything there to stop me from doing so) during the MS Awards, it requires a bit of observation and actual care from the voter(s) in question.

That probably wasn't the intended effect, I just like to read into things way too much.

On a more on-topic (and not inside-topic) note, really enjoying the albums so far, and found a lotta new stuff. Only real qualm is you bastids have made the ''Extreme Doom'' category ridicolously hard for me to choose my favourite

Written by Druss on 26.02.2013 at 19:54

On a more on-topic (and not inside-topic) note, really enjoying the albums so far, and found a lotta new stuff. Only real qualm is you bastids have made the ''Extreme Doom'' category ridicolously hard for me to choose my favourite

I'll give you a hint. Alkerdeel is the correct answer
[/unprofessionalbias]

Yeah... The extreme doom category is definitely one of the hardest for me. I honestly liked all albums on that one.

Written by Promonex on 26.02.2013 at 20:00

I'll give you a hint. Alkerdeel is the correct answer
[/unprofessionalbias]

Hah, Alkerdeel is probably still my favourite, but its more a personal taste thing in truth, I just love the pure, undiluted filth of it the ones struggling with me to beat that are Evoken, Indesinence (really loved this album) and Monolithe's EP. Best thing about those three albums? Hadn't listened to (though, I had heard of) any one of the three of them previous to these Awards

Written by Druss on 26.02.2013 at 20:21

Hadn't listened to (though, I had heard of) any one of the three of them previous to these Awards

And this is the reason why popular stuff should be, if generally possible, kept out of the awards. Why give an album everyone and their Grand mother knows about a spot, when an equally great or better unknown record can have some recognition.

Written by [user id=4365] on 26.02.2013 at 20:35

And this is the reason why popular stuff should be, if generally possible, kept out of the awards. Why give an album everyone and their Grand mother knows about a spot, when an equally great or better unknown record can have some recognition.

Aye, and that statement extends to pretty much every genre I've voted in. I've voted in 11 categories so far (still have to decide on Extreme Doom, and will get another one or two done in the last day or two I'm sure), and in only one category was the album I expected to vote for still my favourite after listening to all the candidates (Pharaoh in PM). For a lotta genres I've voted for, it makes sense (i.e. I enjoy doom metal, but I won't listen to every single doom/extreme doom album talked about on the site), but even for ''Heavy / Melodic Metal'', a genre I normally try to keep up to date in, I ended up voting for Dawnbringer's Into The Lair Of The Sun God, an album I hadn't even heard of, let alone listened to previous to the Awards.

Granted, the big stuff's still gonna win (for the most part, at least) in their respective categories, but the candidates can be real eye openers sometimes.

Written by [user id=4365] on 26.02.2013 at 20:35

Why give an album everyone and their Grand mother knows about a spot, when an equally great or better unknown record can have some recognition.

Because supporting unknown records is unprofessional.

Being unsupportive of unknown records is unprofessional. And unsporting. And un-other-things.

My personal take on these awards: didn't listen to extreme doom before -> am an avid and starry-eyed extreme doom devotee now.

Already knew Evoken going in but bands like Indesinence, Bong, Monolithe, Alkerdeel, Elysian Blaze, Faal and Narrow House all blew me away with their expansive and all-encompassing approach to oppressive beauty.

I think even the Alternative Category vote for Aluk Todolo came as an after-effect of this.

I'm having the hardest time settling on a vote and that is a beautiful thing indeed.

Corrected for you

Quote:

I'll give you a hint. Faal is the correct answer
[/unprofessionalbias]

Quote:

I'll give you a hint. Faal is the correct answer
[/unprofessionalbias]

Nah come on, it's clearly Indesinence!

....or Faal

...or Monolithe

Quote:

Written by Darkside Momo on 27.02.2013 at 02:57

Corrected for you

I'll give you a hint. Elysian Blaze is the correct answer
[/unprofessionalbias]

There you go... Nah but seriously. That was an excellent category, definitely my favorite. All great stuff.

If Alkerdeel wasn't the correct answer, it would be Evoken. Or Narrow House. But they aren't because it's Alkerdeel, k?

NB: before the awards I didn't know either of these records ^^

Well, in Djent / Math Metal i haven't listen to anyone of yet. I think it would be better if I give a miss.

/toughnom