I think Rock just had an influence of what Heavy Metal would be later, but in my opinion Metal is a totally new genere (not just a sub-genere) with its own characteristcs, way distinct from Rock. Even thou Hard Rock is very similar to Heavy Metal.

Well Rock had a very big influence on metal but there were also many other genres that helped define the original sound of heavy metal such a blues. Now days in metal there can be influences drawn from almost every genre of music which I don't think can be said about many other genres. Metal can draw musical influences from things like jazz, classical music, rock, blues, polka, punk, and many other genres.

well i wasnt around back then in the early seventies when heavy metal was being concieved, as i am sure not many of us here were
but as far as i understand there was rock 'n' roll, and then that influenced and transgressed into heavy metal
some people call Led Zeppelin the first heavy metal band although they kept telling us they wern't
then Black Sabbath came along with a more of a heavier sound
and then Judas Priest came along and proclaimed themselves to be 'heavy metal'
my opinion is the first heavy metal album, as heavy metal is today - is Judas Priest's 'Sad Wings Of Destiny' - and if you listen to that you can definatly hear a lot of rock type tracks, but there is also the first of the traditional heavy metal as it is now

like i say though, i wasnt around in the late seixties and early seventies so i am only saying what i have picked up myself

no. metal did not come from rock. black sabbath were completly original. they hadn't even heard any music before and created their own sound from sctratch

haha, you just know anything written by 'tommy tee' is going to be sarcastic or some joke of some kind dont you..

Written by -tom- on 15.07.2006 at 17:26

no. metal did not come from rock. black sabbath were completly original. they hadn't even heard any music before and created their own sound from sctratch

Indeed. They were all separated from their families at birth and kept in soundproof containers for 20 years. Then they were put in a room together, and the result was metal. Remember, kids, messing with evolution is bad!

Seriously, original metal stemmed from rock, just as any genre has its roots in the past. The Beatles and Elvis Presley were seen as 'shocking' by their listeners' parents. Bands like Deep Purple and Led Zepellin took the raw hunk of rock 'n' roll left by bands like Steppenwolf (Born to be Wild) and Iron Butterfly (In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida) and made it heavier again. Deep Purple added a new dimension of heaviness, while Jimmy Page of Zeppelin was responsible for the influence of Blues.

Then Sabbath come along, and the whole thing takes a different tilt, with distortion, power chords, aggressive drumming and downtuning all coming into play. From there, it took of, with doom and speed (crafted (in a primitive form) by Sabbath and Priest respectively) progressing naturally into the genres we know today-Gothic, Thrash/Death/Black etc. etc. While today many artists are increasingly using influences from other genres (f.e. Mark Jansen of Epica and Tuomas Holopainen of Nightwish both cite orchestral composer Hans Zimmer as an influence), it cannot be denied that metal was born from rock 'n' roll....

...just in the same way as all music was born from a caveman banging a shin bone on a rock in a cave long ago...;D

Metal is a sub-genre of rock, thats all there is to it...
Rock is a huge genre, almost like a meta-genre actually.

Written by Baz Anderson on 15.07.2006 at 17:31

haha, you just know anything written by 'tommy tee' is going to be sarcastic or some joke of some kind dont you..

im english. its what we do...

humm...yes and no. yes in the sense that when black sabbath were making music, they believed they were just making rock/hard rock music. and then the press found out about em, and called em 'heavy metal'. at first toni iommi was like 'what the fuck is this "heavy metal?"' and then it grew to more

rock is a pretty huge genre. and perhaps metal is a bigger genre? but if metal is a sub genre of rock, then rock is sort of on a softer side, and metal is on a more heavier side. although some metal bands are much softer than tons of hard rock bands..but meh

personally, I was of the opinion that metal was the mutant offspring of zydeco and hillbilly-whisky-jug-blowing music... but that's just me.

I think metal is a new genre, everything in metal is different, the attitude, the lyrics, the singing techniques, so on... Most metalheads doesnt like Rock with a few exeptions, and most Rockers doesnt like Metal (talking about the most extreme types as trash/death, and black). In the other hand most Metal fans got into Metal thanks to Rock. I keep confusing myself =P

Definetly yes, heavy metal is rock just amplified with more high pitched vocals and a few other elements, it comes from blues and rock, it's not a creation divine which appeared suddenly lol...

@4look4rd: Most of metalhead doesn't like rock? what kind of metalheads do u know?? metalheads are not DEATH/BLACK/GOTHIC/POWERmetalheads... -.- HEAVYmetalheads LIKE rock for sure...

tommy tee: hahaha, yes - i guess it is

Without rock, there would be no metal. Those bands that influenced the creation of metal (Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, among others) were all hard-ROCK bands, with some blues taste, but it was all rock. Metal is very huge and complex, yes, but it still is a sub-genre inside rock.

yes.

I'm a firm beleiver that metal is merely an updated version of hard rock...

But then, the whole Black Sabbath thing...no band was as "statanic" and as heavy as they were...

True, bands from the 70s that were known then as heavy metal are now known as hard rock which supports the whole 'metal is merely an updated version of hard rock'

Metal takes from many genres and not just rock or from Black Sabbath or Deep Purple...

I agree with jupitreas and others that agree with him. I think that Metal progressed from Rock. Metal is a heavier way of playing rock/using guitars. You can't create something out of nothing. Music progressed from 'sound', Metal progressed from Rock.

I also think that Metal came from Rock (has the roots, essentially), but like it says in other previous messages posted others music genres have influenced in Metal like Jazz, Folk, etc.

yeh sorta rock was before metal and everything evolves you know so thats jst my opinion though

I think too that metal came from rock but metal is NOT a sub-genre of rock, i agree with 4look4rd wen he says that a metalhead don´t like rock...it´s completly true....only the hard rock fans like some metal...the metal fans don´t like rock...there is a diference!
Of course that some people say "without rock there is no metal"....but that´s not a reason for saying that metal is a subgenre of rock....So, in the same way of thinking, i can say without a complex brain there is no music

There is a question that we can make to ourselves: "What kind of metal came from rock?": Only the old metal.
Death, black, power, symphonic, doom, etc. metal don´t came from rock, came from that unique genre (not a sub-genre) that is simply.... Metal

Ok, Black from Death....etc... but the veins are the same.... metal

I agree. Metal came from rock, but metal became an own genre.

"Cream", "Yardbirds" and Jimmi Hendrix were pioneers of metal and they were rock bands and rock musicians. The first time that the "heavy metal" term is used in music is in "Born to be Wild" of Steppenwolf ("heavy metal" term was invented by the north american writer William Burroughs in his novel "Nova Express" in 1967), and in those years the music was rock and hard rock. I think metal IS rock, metal is not a "sub-genre" of rock, is THE evolution of rock, is the most direct line of the rock evolution through hard rock

Written by bangladesh on 17.07.2006 at 02:16

I think too that metal came from rock but metal is NOT a sub-genre of rock, i agree with 4look4rd wen he says that a metalhead don´t like rock...it´s completly true....only the hard rock fans like some metal...the metal fans don´t like rock...there is a diference!
Of course that some people say "without rock there is no metal"....but that´s not a reason for saying that metal is a subgenre of rock....So, in the same way of thinking, i can say without a complex brain there is no music

There is a question that we can make to ourselves: "What kind of metal came from rock?": Only the old metal.
Death, black, power, symphonic, doom, etc. metal don´t came from rock, came from that unique genre (not a sub-genre) that is simply.... Metal

Ok, Black from Death....etc... but the veins are the same.... metal

Black didnt evolve from Death. Black evolved from Thrash (and Punk/Punkrock maybe too).

Written by jupitreas on 15.07.2006 at 17:35

Metal is a sub-genre of rock, thats all there is to it...
Rock is a huge genre, almost like a meta-genre actually.

The end of the conversation, I agree.

.. and by the way, saying that metal evolved mainly from blues and not from rock is ridiculous, as rock wouldn't have existed without blues in the first place.

I'd say old metal has a direct evolution from hard rock (Rainbow, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, etc...)

But actual metal, which is much heavier, has nothing to do with actual rock (which is, mostly, indie, like Strokes and Franz Ferdinand), si I'd say that in the begining they were related, but now are very different genres.

Yes definetly metal has derived from rock and metal is still a sub-genre of the rock but nobody anymore say it as such. Every new generation of bands is influenced by the older and that's how the today's extreme metal music has derived. Every new generation changes the music and metal becomes more extreme or more melodic. But it all started with bands like Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath and even more earlier The Beatles and The Rolling Stones.

of course it does!!!

just listen to Queen!!! thay had some amazing guitar solos...there are a lot of metal bands nowadays that cant deliver such great solos i tell you!

Written by X-FrEaK on 23.07.2006 at 06:59

of course it does!!!

just listen to Queen!!! thay had some amazing guitar solos...there are a lot of metal bands nowadays that cant deliver such great solos i tell you!

X-FrEaK is right, Queen is a great example cause their solos are sometimes more metal than todays metal solos.

Whoa, are the mods on vacation or something?

If you don't know the answer to that question, you shouldn't be in a metal forum.

just to clear everyone:

"Much like its music, the collection of bands influenced by Queen is quite diverse. Bands that cite Queen as an influence include Judas Priest, Van Halen, Def Leppard, Iron Maiden, Mötley Crüe, Steve Vai, George Michael, Metallica, The Flaming Lips, The Melvins, Guns N' Roses, Dr. Dre, Chris Cornell, Blind Guardian, Nirvana, Ween, Trent Reznor, Extreme, Dream Theater, Green Day, Jellyfish, The Smashing Pumpkins, Robbie Williams, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Ben Folds Five, Foo Fighters, Joan Osborne, Davey Havok, Social Distortion, Muse, Keane, The Darkness, Franz Ferdinand, Katie Melua, Pharrell Williams and Jetliner among others."(taken from wikipedia)

do i see Iron Maiden, Motley Crue, Metallica, Dream Theateer, Judas Priest? ok...i do...so metal DO comes from rock...