*Maybe someone is still interested in discussing the system of categorizing bands an genres

I've been thinking about this for some time. I see that everybody tries to define bands by themselves. That doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing but I was wondering about who really has the right what band belongs to what genre. There has to be someone( I don't mean a single person) whose opinion would be conclusive. If somekind of institution or whatever you would like to call it doesn't exist the genre definitons could change radically in time. An example: bands like Deep Purple and Uriah Heep were are metal because they were labeled like that back then when the whole metal thing was starting, nowadays many don't define 'em as metal.

So are there anybody who has the authority to do the definiton, if there aren't should there be? Metal jouranlist, somekind of metal historians? Or is it a collective and changing thing afterall (band A belongs to that genre because most metalheads think that way), in that's case then maybe in 20 years death metal for example will not be considered death anymore.

Edit: Another thing which relates to this subject is that people nowadays tend to rewrite history, that includes metal genres aswell. you thoughts?

I'd agree that the term metal is definitively changing. With regards to the figure or group of officials beong able to determine the sound of any band into specified genres, well... it doesn't seem likely, however, it is quite a feasible thought in relation to the shape of metal genres..although record companies do attempt to do this themselves (for example).

I think that kind of group is needed, otherwise the not very much knowing collective mind will rewrite the history which is allready happening. But it's kind of hard imagine for something to happen.

Whatever. do we really need to sort out a system of categorization ? It's just adjectives used to describe music. There's enough informations on the net about the different bigger genres and sub genres are there to describe the general feeling of a band's music.

I think we do. It's not vital but there could be system, maybe we don't need it now but it would help to avoid creating stupid genres and would protect the history of metal.

Written by [user id=3005] on 18.05.2006 at 03:24

to avoid creating stupid genres

no man. There's already the big categories of metal. Metalheads already know what the big genres are. STILL, people talk about this or this band while describing them with a subgenre. You can't stop people from describing bands the way they want to. YES there's some silly subgenres up there and YES a lot of them are stupid. but who cares ? stupid people will stay stupid. and bands describes their genres on their websites and in interviews.

Written by [user id=3005] on 18.05.2006 at 03:24
and would protect the history of metal

hahaha. sorry I'll be an asshole for saying that but that's the funniest thing I saw on MS. "protect" the history of metal. yeah right.

By saying protect I meant that it would prevent people for reinventing things as has been done before. Just look a the old thread which asked if people consider those hard rock bands metal ,most didn't....

I was too hasty answering you first question, we don't need a system necessarily, we need clarity. The sytem allready exists actually.

Written by Nathan Lurker on 18.05.2006 at 04:35

and bands describes their genres on their websites and in interviews.

You'd be surprised how many don't, actually.

It's good to have a kind of distinction between genres because like that it's a lot easier to find bands similar to the ones you like. On the other hand it's so hard to define a genre for a band because nowadays bands tend to mix a lot of genres to be original. I encourage this because sometimes it gives great results, but this makes it really hard to place a band in a specific genre.

Written by Syk on 19.05.2006 at 15:52

Written by Nathan Lurker on 18.05.2006 at 04:35

and bands describes their genres on their websites and in interviews.

You'd be surprised how many don't, actually.

And many bands define themselves wrongly, usually what the want to be not what are in reality.

You're totally right about that

Written by [user id=3005] on 18.05.2006 at 10:13

we don't need a system necessarily, we need clarity. The sytem allready exists actually.

Thats exactly right, everything is already set up. But to keep it so no one gets confused and reinvents it in a bad way we need clarity.

Yeh... there should be some clear-cut rules on what a genre must sound like....

E.g. Black Metal - A Large proportion of hasrh/screeching vocals.

It's easy enough for the trained ear to spot a genre distinction, even among less obvious types of bands like Akercocke. And as far as I'm concerned, the only reason we need genres is to communicate with each other about the music ("...just heard this great new death metal band...") and as a marketing tool.

I think that the idea of clear-cut rules is rather silly as there are few bands that you can stick a label on and have it fit perfectly. Are we going to have to make rules for every new band that breaks the old ones? Or every band like Anathema or Ulver who change their sound?

When it comes down to it, genres are only a way of describing what the music is like. It's a communication tool, nothing more. We may like to debate the more popular descriptions for bands, one of the joys of being a metalhead but it's just a quick means of letting someone know what the music is like and coming to an agreement on what bands are similar to each other.

Written by [user id=2031] on 24.05.2006 at 05:18

It's easy enough for the trained ear to spot a genre distinction, even among less obvious types of bands like Akercocke. And as far as I'm concerned, the only reason we need genres is to communicate with each other about the music ("...just heard this great new death metal band...") and as a marketing tool.

I think that the idea of clear-cut rules is rather silly as there are few bands that you can stick a label on and have it fit perfectly. Are we going to have to make rules for every new band that breaks the old ones? Or every band like Anathema or Ulver who change their sound?

When it comes down to it, genres are only a way of describing what the music is like. It's a communication tool, nothing more. We may like to debate the more popular descriptions for bands, one of the joys of being a metalhead but it's just a quick means of letting someone know what the music is like and coming to an agreement on what bands are similar to each other.

Well said, i agree.
Genres will always differ in the minds of different people too, as some people have heard more variety of that particular genre than others etc. So what you were saying about clear cut rules applies here too.

Written by [user id=2031] on 24.05.2006 at 05:18


When it comes down to it, genres are only a way of describing what the music is like. It's a communication tool, nothing more. We may like to debate the more popular descriptions for bands, one of the joys of being a metalhead but it's just a quick means of letting someone know what the music is like and coming to an agreement on what bands are similar to each other.

Don't you think that it's hard to talk to someone using words for which s/he has a different definiton.

And all bands don't have to be in a certain main genre. By combining existing definitons to metal and non metal you can describe most bands in metal, atleast I think so. But in order there should some main definitons people use, not self made up . And don't get me wrong I wasn't talking of the definitions as word to word strict rules.

@Dark Cornatus. If everbody defines the genre by himself then there's no point to genres.

Isn't it a sign of the low importance of genres when bands don't give a crap about what genre they are, and a lot of them don't even know?

I think bands shouldn't try to put themselves in certain genre, that would limitng to their music and reduce originality. I think genres are more for listeners than musicians.

"Opeth used to be one of my favorite death metal bands. Just recently however, somebody told me that they were progressive-death, therefore I can't listen to them anymore. I don't like progressive"

And therein lies the rub for many a modern metal-listener.

Perhaps genres are narrowing for the fans, as much as they are for the bands?

On the previous version of the board, I encountered a post by an individual, whom I shall not name, that read "I haven't listened to Akercocke up until now, as they have a hardcorename, and I was told they were hardcore, and since I don't like hardcore I never gave them a chance. Now that I know they are death/black I think they are great.

Written by [user id=1457] on 24.05.2006 at 19:11

"Opeth used to be one of my favorite death metal bands. Just recently however, somebody told me that they were progressive-death, therefore I can't listen to them anymore. I don't like progressive"

And therein lies the rub for many a modern metal-listener.

Perhaps genres are narrowing for the fans, as much as they are for the bands?

That's almost funny when people say something like that.It's up to listeners if they let genres narrow their thinking.

To be honest, i dont believe any band will always fall under one genre... Its how prominent the definitions of a particular genre appear in a song or on an album.
In saying that i think genres exist to mearly give an unaware listener an idea of what it might be in comparison... or if someone has never listened to a particular band before. I dont think genres exist to say this style is good, and this style is bad, i think listen before judge is the best approach. Unfortunately with many people its the whole "I dont like **** metal" seriously guys, try before you buy.

For me it's clear, when I listen to a band depending what they do I just know what genre is... the subgenres are another thing... but the genre is always clear u cannot confuse Michael Jackson with Iron Maiden... so.... we don't need to catogarizate anything, them are catogarizated already by the sociaty, the problem are the subgenres... who each one say what they want but the main genres are always definded, metal, rock, hard rock, pop, progressive, alternative.... always defined

Genres will do nothing for the history of metal in either direction. The facts are the facts. This band played this song, this band was influenced by this other band. Etc. Subgenres are a way of describing the music, and useful only for that purpose. When someone says "I like power metal" it will give you an idea of what you might find in his record collection, and that is about it. That is what genres are for. They will give you a good idea of what something sounds like. Certainly genre nazis exist, who listen to only stuff that fits a genre perfectly, and for this purpose you can say something is "generic" (that's what the term means, isn't it?). Frankly, I find it distasteful to think of a rigid categorization system based on some authority. Genres are loose for a reason, they are subjective pointers. They should stay that way.

I think genres are pretty stupid, metal is metal. But then I always find myself discussing the genres with my friends

Written by Warman on 10.06.2006 at 12:51

I think genres are pretty stupid, metal is metal. But then I always find myself discussing the genres with my friends

I agree completely.I do the same thing as well.Metal bands play differently but they are still metal

Genres aren't that necessary, but as Proud Autumn says, they're a communication tool. But I find that this communication tool is only useful for metalheads. What about the genre definitions in album stores, in music sites or for those who aren't metalheads?? Iron Maiden, Nightwish and Opeth will be simply defined as "Metal", in the best of cases, because some times metal is defined along with other rock genres and is only considered as "Rock".

Anyway, I think there are no stupid genres. What is actually going on is that sometimes there are two bands in a same genre that are too different from themselves. That's the need of some sub-genres, for example to differenciate Arch Enemy's gothenburg/melodic-death from Necrophagist's brutal-death. Or Nightwish's symphonic-power from CoB's extreme-power.

In the end power, death, black, doom, progressive, thrash, gothic, etc. are all metal. It's up to each person what he/she wants to listen to. Sometimes people say "I don't like this one genre", but they've got exceptions. It happens even with Nu Metal, in my case I dislike this genre, but Korn is one of my very fav bands.

So, if you are saying that genres are stupid, why is power metal attacked? or when i listen death metal i don't like it? It's good to listen everything as music, but sometimes there must be a definition of what you listen.

Written by Vinnie R. on 25.04.2008 at 08:45

....... but sometimes there must be a definition of what you listen.

I really agree with u . I just say , we needed becuz they are individ different and it is of a different kind and we chosen one ro some of them

Written by Vinnie R. on 25.04.2008 at 08:45

It's good to listen everything as music, but sometimes there must be a definition of what you listen.

I agree as well. I mean it is important to know if you are listening to a band that is Blackened-Progressive-Gothic-Pepsi-Death-Doom-Ben Hur-Gore-Avent Garde-Thrash-Speed-Last of the Mohicans-Psychedelic-Trip Hop-Experimental-Dance Dance Revolution-Techno-Industrial-Post Rock-Salamander-Sludge-Drone-Ambient Metal or is Blackened-Progressive-Gothic-Pepsi-Death-Doom-Ben Hur-Gore-Avent Garde-Thrash-Speed-Last of the Mohicans-Psychedelic-Trip Hop-Experimental-Dance Dance Revolution-Techno-Industrial-Post Rock-Salamander-Sludge-Drone-Ambient Metalcore. It is usually the breakdowns that give it away.

I can't really go in-depth with what I am about to say, but I believe that some bands are obvious on what kind of genre they are. Not meaning like, "Oh Slayer is thrash and Death is death". That is stupidly obvious, but what I mean is sometimes I can listen to a band I never heard of before, and I guess a genre they are in my mind, and if I ever remember to look them up I guess correctly.