sorry, couldn't really explain this in the limited space of the title box. basically im asking for opinions on how perceptions of a band may be affected by the time period in which they release their music and the part of the world the band comes from.

a few examples:

1) Toxic Holocaust: the guy behind this band is obviously a big fan of old school thrash and shows this in every aspect of his band. the song titles, the artwork, the riffs, even the production (on the first album at least) are intentionally trying to fit in with the old school thrash scene. But have perceptions of this band been affected by the fact it was released recently? Toxic Holocaust are viewed as merely a novelty band by many but had the first album been released in 1988, he would probably have been well respected (even though there are bands in 1988 that were intentionally trying to conform to the norm of the increasingly homogenous thrash scene).

2) Black Metal not from Europe. Europe is, by most people, considered to be the home of black metal (its not really but thats how people see it). people often joke about the american black metal scene being rubbish but do people really view a band in a different way from knowing that they come from a certain place? Would many people have a different view of a band simply by knowing they are from the far east?

3) Is it easier to enjoy generic black metal if its from 1994, than if its from 2004? This could be tested by getting 20 black metal fans, playing a track to all of them then telling the first ten its from 1994 and the rest that its from 2004 and then ask them to rate it on a scale of one to ten.

I have a friend who loves metal from the 70s and 80s, and has a general dislike for modern metal. I feel that people like him love 80's metal more than they would if that kind of band released an album now. Of course that Deep Purple album is good, but it is not an instant masterpiece, timeless and far superior everything today. If you ask my friend, it is. Sure, music has evolved differently from then, but that does not excuse narrow-mindedness.

I agree that every 90s bm band is worshipped beyond limits. but I fail to see a reason or the logic behind it. the same thing happens with nowadays black metal, only that now every band is overlooked and considered a clone, without even listening to one song from them.

I do consider europe the home of black metal, mainly because the number of (good) black metal bands, wich is superior to the number of usbm ones, and because usbm bands are more obscure then european ones.

I am sceptical towards any black metal that comes from scandinavia, though. other then a couple of bands, that scene is worthless.

Well, about time, it's true, music changes according to the time, but personally, I find more differences in the location, every band sounds different according to the country, even if they play a same metal genre, and you can see many many bands that have influences of their culture

@Tommy Tee: dude.....Black Metal did come from Europe. Bathory (Sweden), Venom (England) , Hellhammer (Switzerland) .

Written by [user id=160] on 15.11.2006 at 21:24

@Tommy Tee: dude.....Black Metal did come from Europe. Bathory (Sweden), Venom (England) , Hellhammer (Switzerland) .

Don't forget Celtic Frost from Switzerland and Mercyful Fate from Denmark...which, last I checked, are all European bands.

right.....well Celtic Frost are Hellhammer though

but anyway, did Black Metal not come from Scandinavia?!

Written by [user id=160] on 16.11.2006 at 00:45

right.....well Celtic Frost are Hellhammer though

but anyway, did Black Metal not come from Scandinavia?!

1) It was different enough to be two different influences, 2) Both of us just discussed this :p

And 3) this could very well tie in to our perception of black metal as being a scandinavian thing with time / location.

Quote:

I am sceptical towards any black metal that comes from scandinavia, though. other then a couple of bands, that scene is worthless.

What do you mean?

Written by [user id=160] on 16.11.2006 at 00:45

right.....well Celtic Frost are Hellhammer though

but anyway, did Black Metal not come from Scandinavia?!

Profanatica, Von, Demoncy and other US bands also played an important part in becoming some of todays most influential bm bands too. Its not all Europe....

well reasons people might sway towards a different countries music or a diferent decades music is because there are differences that a band will never be able to create now
no band will ever release anything that has the same feel about it as the 70's Judas Priest albums for example
heavy metal has changed because the world has changed - metal is more accepted now then it was in the early days

also i sway more towards German power metal but thats because it sounds different to most power metal from everywhere else. same reason why i dont particularly like Finnish power metal - it has a different style to it
the German metal sounds way different to me - but if a band from somewhere else came along and i liked them - i wouldnt think any less of them or anything like that. i just expect to like any German metal more then any Finnish for example

Written by [user id=1279] on 16.11.2006 at 01:08

Quote:

I am sceptical towards any black metal that comes from scandinavia, though. other then a couple of bands, that scene is worthless.

What do you mean?

I mean I'm not eager to check out every newcomer from Scandinavia. if I hear a lot of good stuff about some bands, then I'll take a look, but only then.

I never think about this, but sure ... music is infected by time and location, at least IMO! Thrash metal is something I prefer if it is from the states, and I also like it better if it is from the 80s. That was something which I prefer the older style of, is there some style I prefer from this millenium? Well, Power metal tends to be better and better and a more wide genre. So I prefer new Power metal.

Hope I understood the topic correct

@Vakshay: okay, out of those bands, I have heard of Von......But did not those bands I mention come before that whole U.S. scene

Written by The Alchemist on 15.11.2006 at 18:22

Well, about time, it's true, music changes according to the time, but personally, I find more differences in the location, every band sounds different according to the country, even if they play a same metal genre, and you can see many many bands that have influences of their culture

there are characteristics associated with certain countrys (i.e. finnish power metal, swedish black metal) but there are bands that come from different countries that sound similar. my question isn't about certain stylesbeing associated with certain places, its about whether if i recorded an album and said i was from finland, would it be viewed differently than if i released the same album and said i was from israel? (for example)

Written by [user id=160] on 15.11.2006 at 21:24

@Tommy Tee: dude.....Black Metal did come from Europe. Bathory (Sweden), Venom (England) , Hellhammer (Switzerland) .

people associate the origins of black metal with norway (mayhem, burzum and co). these bands received very little attention until about 1992. before people became fixated on this one country (and surrounding countries), black metal had no specific home country. Some great bands existed worldwide before then.

do time and location matter?

Ask yourself this:

If Dark Funeral and Gorgoroth were from San Francisco and cut their first albums in 2002, would they be as popular as they are now?

If Weakling were from Oslo, lived in the basement of Helvete, and recorded their album in 1993, would they be as popular as they are now? more popular? less popular?


As for the origins of BM sub-discussion, it should also be noted that Euronymous was influenced by Sarcafago.

I really like this thread. I think the time/location of a release can (and should) have a huge influence over how its received. I'm just about to submit a review for 'Dance of Death' that touches on this issue, actually.

Written by Hyvaarin on 13.02.2007 at 07:23

I really like this thread. I think the time/location of a release can (and should) have a huge influence over how its received.

I believe music should be judged without consideration for its time of release. An album isn't classic just because it's old. And, on the other hand, newer releases shouldn't be discounted without a fair listen.

Yeah, I think it does. Simply because we all have our frame of reference. (That must be a very bad translation of the dutch word.)

Written by -tom- on 16.11.2006 at 14:45

if i recorded an album and said i was from finland, would it be viewed differently than if i released the same album and said i was from israel? (for example)

Yeah, i definateley think so. Sadly, whenever a friend tells me about a new band, i usually ask them what country their from first. I know it's wrong but i usually take more interest in European bands i haven't heard of than American bands. I don't know why, it must be all the emo/metal-core that comes out of America that puts me off and encourages me to check out more bands from scandinavia or any other part of Europe.

I think that the location can affect if you let yourself guide by teh clichés (Finnish power, norwegian black, american Death). However, we must recognize that there arebands that sound nothing like they are from. To make myself clear:

Kamelot doesn't soudn USA at all, Turisas doesn't sound Finland at all, Deathstars sound not Sweden at all.
What really matters is thw quality of the music, not where they are from, at least for me. I susually don't judge bands depending on their home country, or don't listen to them because they are from certain place.

About time... I really think waht really affects here is the technology used in production. 20, 30 years ago there were not much high-tech stuff like protools and that kinda programs. it doesn't mean old music sounds bad, it means that today¡'s music simply has a more depurated production.

Of course the perception of music/bands will be affected by the time and location it was released. I don't think it so much should be affected by location, but time is definitely a factor.

I think it's just the idea of doing something revolutionary. I don't mean that in a sense of changing the world, but doing something that the metal scene will be awe-struck by. Clearly, some of the bands from the 70s and 80s are the ones who paved the way for metal and were the pioneers. Hence, why I think that a lot of metal fans nowadays listen to mostly old school metal because it was original and different. Too many bands nowadays are just clones of their influences.

Now, the same goes for late 80s, early 90s black metal. These bands started doing something new, something different from the rest of the metal scene. As I said earlier, I personally don't think location should affect ones perception of music because in my opinion there are some insanely good US black metal bands and then there's some great European thrash metal bands.

On another note, as you mentioned bands like Toxic Holocaust who are playing old school thrash metal, that's all well and truly good. I think however, that they just aren't accepted as well as they should be because they aren't doing anything ground-breaking. Yes, they are good and are comparable to 80s thrash metal bands, however because they're doing what bands like Slayer, Kreator and Metallica were doing 20 years ago, it just does not the same impact nowadays as it would have had back then.

All I'm trying to say is that with the evolution of metal, I think fans expect to hear something new and original. In almost every recent metal album review I read, I always see some reference to originality. With some of the albums that have very high ratings, there's always reference to it's originality or with low rated albums, quite a lot of the time the reviewer points out the lack of originality.

Well, if you tell me that a band is from Finland, there's a bigger chance I'll try it and maybe like it, because my first favorite bands from almost every genre were Finnish, and I'm now addicted to trying Finnish bands before others in genres I'm not familiar with, or trying even more Finnish bands in the genres I like...so, the more bands I try, the more good bands I find and the more I'm addicted to the scene that's on how location changes our perception. And if you wonder whether location can change the actual quality and content of bands - I say, hell yes! Art comes from inner and outer demons one is facing while creating his/her work; obviously, metal began in an industrialized, dark, middle-class dominated environment and spawned great bands in places which posses these and similar traits. The place must be a 'spawning ground' of, so to speak, good, mostly mid to well educated young men who are angry and want to make a difference.