You know, I was checking out sub genres in Metal earlier, and I guess I'm asking if there's any innovative metal groups around anymore

I mean think about it, when's the last time there's been a hot new metal genre? The 90s, right?

you know..Folk Metal, Drone Metal, Black Metal, Death metal (okay last two genres were 80s, but they really came into their own genre in the 90s)...a few other genres I'm sure that came from the 90s that I'm forgetting


That's not say to that there hasn't' been a plethora of great 2000s metal bands, but c'mon guys, they've just been expanding on what's been established previously. There's really been no new sub genre of Metal that grabbed the community by the balls and went "THIS IS THE METAL YOU WILL BE WANTING TO PLAY FOR NOW ON". Something that started a new way to play metal, where bands across the world adapted to it. I'm telling you, the las time we've seen something like that was in the 90s

Has Metal reached it plateau?

WHAT?

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 26.08.2013 at 01:24

WHAT?

feel free to prove me wrong

Written by zabrak on 26.08.2013 at 01:26

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 26.08.2013 at 01:24

WHAT?

feel free to prove me wrong

there are no limits to human creativity and so for metal too.I won't even waste my and your time in proving that you are wrong,just get this as is "WRONG".

Written by zabrak on 26.08.2013 at 01:09

You know, I was checking out sub genres in Metal earlier, and I guess I'm asking if there's any innovative metal groups around anymore

I mean think about it, when's the last time there's been a hot new metal genre? The 90s, right?

djent and some prog sup genres are relative new, but well actualt is it metal? to me more pop, but some say it is, so djent and math metal is new

Written by Bad English on 26.08.2013 at 21:45

Written by zabrak on 26.08.2013 at 01:09

You know, I was checking out sub genres in Metal earlier, and I guess I'm asking if there's any innovative metal groups around anymore

I mean think about it, when's the last time there's been a hot new metal genre? The 90s, right?

djent and some prog sup genres are relative new, but well actualt is it metal? to me more pop, but some say it is, so djent and math metal is new

Yes, bands like Vildhjarta and Stealing Axion are clearly pop whilst bands like Iron Maiden, Rhapsody or Omnium Gatherum are trve kvlt underground bands of dissonance and inaccessability.

^What they said.
And who knows what the future holds?
Simple as that.
/Endthread.

I agree with the posts, still I understand the main question. Are those "kinda" new things really that groundbreaking? I don't know. Maybe we've come far these days when it comes to metal. My guess is that it's more subjective today. I sometimes feel "whoa, this is some original and innovative stuff", whereas the other metalhead possibly doesn't feel the same way.

For me as far as metal has evolved it has never been about creating new genres.
IMO it was always about taking an already existing genre and adding something new to it. For (a bad?) example: Punk + Heavy Metal = Thrash Metal etc.

And on a more philosophical note (David Hume in particular); isn't that the whole proces of humans 'creating' things? Adding things to already existing things. (Horse + bird = Pegasus.)

For me the most 'original' metal band is System Of A Down and I hope that they will prove it again with a future album.

Yes it is possible.

Of course a huge majority will continue to create metal that was done before and are not very innovative. But there is a whole bunch of bands out there who are creative, original, progresssive and experimental. There will always be innovators, in most metal genres.

Written by Bad English on 26.08.2013 at 21:45

Written by zabrak on 26.08.2013 at 01:09


I mean think about it, when's the last time there's been a hot new metal genre? The 90s, right?

djent and some prog sup genres are relative new, but well actualt is it metal? to me more pop, but some say it is, so djent and math metal is new

I wouldn't call djent and math metal new genres. The Dillinger Escape Plan and Meshuggah released albums already in the nineties (of course it wasn't called djent at that time).

Diablo Swing Orchestra is pretty much all the proof I need.

Creative minds will always find something.

Sigh's last 3 albums (or at least 2 of them).
And are you saying trancecore isn't the hot new genre?

Written by D. Monique on 28.08.2013 at 10:08

Written by Bad English on 26.08.2013 at 21:45



djent and some prog sup genres are relative new, but well actualt is it metal? to me more pop, but some say it is, so djent and math metal is new

I wouldn't call djent and math metal new genres. The Dillinger Escape Plan and Meshuggah released albums already in the nineties (of course it wasn't called djent at that time).

Mathcore (TDEP) isn't the same as djent, so that doesn't count, also the first album by Meshuggah that actually sounds like present day djent is Nothing which was released in 2002.

Furthermore I'm not even sure how djent is Meshuggah, obviously it was the primary influencing band but there are quite some differences. The genre picked up by the 00s, even if their actual roots reach deeper, so it is a new genre.

When you listen to djent such as Chimp Spanner or Uneven Structures you realise how quickly the genre grew out of the Meshuggah-comparison.

Wtf is djent anyway?

Written by Uldreth on 28.08.2013 at 13:25

Written by D. Monique on 28.08.2013 at 10:08

I wouldn't call djent and math metal new genres. The Dillinger Escape Plan and Meshuggah released albums already in the nineties (of course it wasn't called djent at that time).

Mathcore (TDEP) isn't the same as djent, so that doesn't count, also the first album by Meshuggah that actually sounds like present day djent is Nothing which was released in 2002.

Furthermore I'm not even sure how djent is Meshuggah, obviously it was the primary influencing band but there are quite some differences. The genre picked up by the 00s, even if their actual roots reach deeper, so it is a new genre.

I didn't write anything about TDEP playing djent. I mentioned djent AND math metal and those two bands as individual representatives of each style: The Dillinger Escape Plan: math metal, or mathcore if you will and Meshuggah: djent.
I'm sorry I didn't say it more clear.
I agree that Meshuggah should not be labeled djent but I believe that nobody will deny their huge influence on the whole genre. Yes, djent is a relatively new genre but as you say its roots reach deeper than the 00s.

Written by D. Monique on 28.08.2013 at 16:27


I didn't write anything about TDEP playing djent. I mentioned djent AND math metal and those two bands as individual representatives of each style: The Dillinger Escape Plan: math metal, or mathcore if you will and Meshuggah: djent.
I'm sorry I didn't say it more clear.
I agree that Meshuggah should not be labeled djent but I believe that nobody will deny their huge influence on the whole genre. Yes, djent is a relatively new genre but as you say its roots reach deeper than the 00s.

Oh.

I view math metal and mathcore as two different things - basically math metal is synonymous with djent (although doesn't require to have the "djent" tone) whilst mathcore is also mathy but is very erratic, chaotic with sudden - seemingly random - bursts, and of course, rooted in hardcore.

In this regard mathcore is old as it has been in existence since the early 90s.

I'd just like to point out that the roots aren't really descriptive of a genre's "timeframe". Nothing was released in 2002, The Trees Are Dead And Dried Out... Wait For Something Wild was released in 2003 and the genre only picked up later on, somewhere around 2005-2008. Sure there were bands in between but the djent "explosion" is very recent.

Written by Uldreth on 28.08.2013 at 16:38

I view math metal and mathcore as two different things - basically math metal is synonymous with djent (although doesn't require to have the "djent" tone) whilst mathcore is also mathy but is very erratic, chaotic with sudden - seemingly random - bursts...

Thanks for the explanation. Now I'm even more confused about these two genres than before.
My bad. I shouldn't have written comments about things I know jackshit about. I always thought math metal and mathcore are basically the same thing. Since I'm not a fan of any of the mentioned genres I never bothered finding out about their roots, history and development. Thanks again for a bit of education.

Written by Uldreth on 28.08.2013 at 16:38

Written by D. Monique on 28.08.2013 at 16:27


I didn't write anything about TDEP playing djent. I mentioned djent AND math metal and those two bands as individual representatives of each style: The Dillinger Escape Plan: math metal, or mathcore if you will and Meshuggah: djent.
I'm sorry I didn't say it more clear.
I agree that Meshuggah should not be labeled djent but I believe that nobody will deny their huge influence on the whole genre. Yes, djent is a relatively new genre but as you say its roots reach deeper than the 00s.

Oh.

I view math metal and mathcore as two different things - basically math metal is synonymous with djent (although doesn't require to have the "djent" tone) whilst mathcore is also mathy but is very erratic, chaotic with sudden - seemingly random - bursts, and of course, rooted in hardcore.

In this regard mathcore is old as it has been in existence since the early 90s.

I'd just like to point out that the roots aren't really descriptive of a genre's "timeframe". Nothing was released in 2002, The Trees Are Dead And Dried Out... Wait For Something Wild was released in 2003 and the genre only picked up later on, somewhere around 2005-2008. Sure there were bands in between but the djent "explosion" is very recent.

Textures - POlars was also from 2003. But you're right the djent explosion is of more recent date and already sound tired and jaded, somehow.

Too bad I absolutely despise djent

I thought djent and 'math metal' were the same thing.

Written by D. Monique on 28.08.2013 at 17:58



Thanks for the explanation. Now I'm even more confused about these two genres than before.
My bad. I shouldn't have written comments about things I know jackshit about. I always thought math metal and mathcore are basically the same thing. Since I'm not a fan of any of the mentioned genres I never bothered finding out about their roots, history and development. Thanks again for a bit of education.

Gladly.
I think I got the difference accross, but if you'd like some examples:



This is a math metal band with elements of progressive metalcore, but I would not call it mathcore. Note the mathy groove/chug patterns that are persistent in the song, that deep "thump" sound. That is pretty much what djent/math metal is built upon.



This is the example of a mathcore band (skip the first 30 secs, its just silence). You can't find that slow deep groove here, however they play around with weird time signatures a lot and the music has some really erratic tempo shifts as well.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 28.08.2013 at 18:02




Textures - POlars was also from 2003. But you're right the djent explosion is of more recent date and already sound tired and jaded, somehow.

I looked that band up too when I wrote that comment, hence mentioning there WERE some bands in the time between, I fully acknowledge that.

I think the genre got popular though after SikTh and Fellsilent disbanded, and their members went on to do Tesseract, Aliases and Monuments, and Periphery emerged at the same time which gave the oomph needed to popularize it.

Written by [user id=126528] on 28.08.2013 at 20:07

I thought djent and 'math metal' were the same thing.

I thought the same but with modern progressive metal.

Innovation ended in the late '50s, when all the main music genres established themselves... the rest is just evolution, no innovation...

^ Well... gospel, soul... jazz/blues/skiffle to rock'n'roll... it's kinda like phones. Computers, too. Whining about innovation as opposed to evolution is a matter of perspective, and the glaringly obvious developments may simply come down to [the development of new] technology (i.e. Fender and co with the electric guitar, more portable recording/sound-producing instruments... double-kicking, e-bowing) kinda like the big bang of electro music ca. 1980. That's portrayed nicely in Dave Grohl's Sound City production, I recommend just about anyone seriously into music of the last 50 years see that film. Think about sympho elements or folk instruments in the modern stuff we enjoy now, or even AC/DC with the bagpipes. Hell, sitar music after '66... as alluded to above, you can usually find anything new if you just look hard enough (and in various places...)

Written by Uldreth on 28.08.2013 at 20:40
...

I think the genre got popular though after SikTh and Fellsilent disbanded, and their members went on to do Tesseract, Aliases and Monuments, and Periphery emerged at the same time which gave the oomph needed to popularize it.

May appear sarcastic, but I mean this genuinely: It's so nice to have all this history lesson without having to go and actually hear too much of it first-hand Good job.

Djent aside, I was gonna point to Asphyx, Morgoth/Killing Joke/Ministry, Disbelief, Ulcerate, and all the nice French freaks when I first read this, and of course djent/deathcore before thinking of the folk stuff (maybe Bathory too... you'd be surprised what one man can achieve when left to his own devices)

Written by Syk on 30.08.2013 at 00:51

^ Well... gospel, soul... jazz/blues/skiffle to rock'n'roll... it's kinda like phones. Computers, too. Whining about innovation as opposed to evolution is a matter of perspective

nobody is whining about it... I agree with the rest, but I still think that what you describe are developments and/or evolution, not innovation. Matter of perspective indeed...

How the bleep were Asphyx and Morgoth innovative? And then especially Morgoth who are nothing more than a second rate Death?

I guess it's not really about innovation anymore but rather about the correct combination of genres and whatnot. I also wouldn't know how to innovate on music in general anymore because basically every tone ahs probably already been used before, if there were only somekind of database that could anaylze all the music that was ever made you would notice that creativity will eventually just repeat itself by making old things into new things. Just like they are now making super hero movies because they don't have a clue what the fuck to make anymore.

Here's something informative, it's not metal but pretty much the same principle applies to our music as well: http://soundsjustlike.com/

Just keep in mind that everything you think of has possibly already been done before, you just need to mix it up with other stuff to make it new or at least have the illusion of something new =p

Written by Aseliot on 30.08.2013 at 14:19


Here's something informative, it's not metal but pretty much the same principle applies to our music as well: http://soundsjustlike.com/

similar thing with this comedy band from australia .. most of you probvably already know this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I