Religion: Double Standards
Original post
Posted by APOHAKC, 08.04.2008 - 15:49
Now to the point, in every day life I see a lot things and contradictories that are pissing me off, whole idea for a thread came when I saw Dutch movie Fitna, you probably already heard about it, it is about Islam, scenarist was accused for hate speech while movie is called racist?! (since when religion and race are connected) and hateful. In the movie, they put strong anti-muslim accent, doesn't matter does I support or not whole concept of the movie, to sum it up, man that made a movie was literally impaled in the media because of the whole project.
Also, we have a bunch of movies that never ever got permission to be shown on tv about anti-judaism, (and please do not invert my words, anti-judaism and anti-semitism is not one the same), they were immediately shown as racist and hateful in the media, not rarely people were even imprisoned for making them.
Now, we have a bunch of anti-Christian movies on tv, that no one never ever bash as racist, that are shown daily on tv, no one ever question religious correctness of those movies, truth, mostly Christian by birth made those movies, but again, as someone declare himself as an anti-Christian what difference does it makes?
Question is, WHY is it ok to bash on Christianity and it is NOT ok to bash on any other religion and immediately it is characterized as hateful speech?
Examples in music, Ukrainian band Nokturnal Mortum had both anti-judaistic and anti-Christian lyrics, no one ever question anti-Christian part cause that's ok, but everyone bitch about anti-judaism?! What's with that?
80% of you are openly anti-Christian, and bash on Christianity on this forum and real life most probably, same as some metalstormers I know, once, I said to one member in real life damn they want to build stupid mosque in the middle of the town and he looked at me like that I said Gods knows what and told me don't be a racist (again?!), but never ever he said anything to me when I dozens of times said that Cathedral in the center of the town should be burned? (yeah, a little of trve metal behavior..)
Once on this forum member said to other member stop with you judaistic crap, I remember that very well, post was deleted and he got warned for racism again, but I also saw DOZENS of time members saying similar things like stop your Christian crap to other members and no one ever got warned for that.
Why is it ok to bitch about Christianity and it is blasphemy to bitch about all other organized religions (especially Islam and Judaism)?!?
Looks like a double standard to me...
| Ernis 狼獾 Posts: 6815  |
Written by Oaken on 27.03.2012 at 23:56 Perhaps I'm an atheist too according to your conception of atheism. I consider myself Catholic tho... I had one classmate who was Muslim and every once in a while he enjoyed starting conversations such as "Hey, why do you Christians do/believe this and this? I mean, can't you understand that we have the last word because Muhammad actually got the message of God right? I'm not saying anything bad but... your conception of God and religion is just SO WRONG!" I actually respect other religions and I have a very good friend who's Muslim and we've never tried to topple each other's philosophies. However, I just have to say I can't stand people who come to you and start with this "Hey, you're Christian, right? Can you tell me why do you call God "father". He isn't our father. He just made us. I know it. If you make a bicycle, you ain't gonna say it's your child, are you?" Another thing... I, as a Christian, accept that there are numerous versions and translations and interpretations of the texts that comprise the holy scripture (unlike some people who might believe that Jesus himself wrote the full version in English)... Because of the numerous translations and the fact that the holy scripture is a compilation of different texts from different times, it can't be taken literally. And it's the same with the holy scripture of Islam. There are several discrepancies to be found also in that text, some of which stem from the fact that the Arabic letters mostly use consonants only and, therefore, a different vowel in a particular word might give a whole another meaning to an entire sentence. But hey... that classmate of mine told me "NO! Quran was ready and complete from the first moment. There can be no other versions!" Yeah, so an angel personally came, ringed the bell and said "Hey, God sent you the "Real Holy Book - The Way It Really Is," hardback copy, fresh from the print and all that jazz, bub!" It is to me as good as "If English was good for St. Paul and Jesus, it's good enough for America!"
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| Milena gloom cookie Staff Posts: 4603  |
Driving by this thread... did it just occur to me, or did someone write masturbating and having consensual sex is a filthy sin?
---- 7.0 means the album is good
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306  |
Written by Milena on 03.04.2012 at 00:01 Pretty sure Ash... no wait, Beast... no wait, Oaken did. Or maybe Cynic? I don't know if he thinks it's a sin but I know he's never masturbated before. Or so he says.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Milena gloom cookie Staff Posts: 4603 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.04.2012 at 00:05 The things you can learn on a forum. I mean, seriously? Their heaven must be all empty then.
---- 7.0 means the album is good
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by Milena on 03.04.2012 at 00:07 They must have a special spot reserved for me. In Hell.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Milena gloom cookie Staff Posts: 4603 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.04.2012 at 00:10 I just... I don't know. I don't pay much thought to religion. Isn't it ultimately useless? Haven't we grown past it as a species? I mean, fuck, I'm conversing to you from across the world in real-time while someone somewhere is believing in something that is practically a not-yet-disproved mythology from a time when year old news was fresh. We have millions of books on our shelves all over the world, millions of gigabytes of man-made data in our digital libraries, and yet wars are waged based on some selectively chosen texts in a couple of books that supposedly portray persons that might have existed and preached religions 20 centuries ago. Why do we still care? And what is it with all the "religion imposes standards of good behaviour on people"? I don't know about you guys, my mom is religious, but when I told her my first lie, she didn't tell me "don't lie, the Bible says it's a sin", she told me "nice people don't lie".
---- 7.0 means the album is good
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by Milena on 03.04.2012 at 00:24 You're asking a very philosophically charged question here. I'm no advocate for religion, but I could respond to your question with another question: Why do we still care about anything? It's all about human nature and foundations and emotions and society and norms and taboos and so much. Literally there is no simple way to give you a direct answer.
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Milena gloom cookie Staff Posts: 4603 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.04.2012 at 00:34 I know, it's just... we pick really weird things to care about. Instead of caring for making our lives better, we invest our energy into wishing we were someone else, who also wishes they were someone else, who also wishes they were someone else. Instead of caring for the things we have, we care about hoarding more, no matter how little or much we have. Instead of doing things that cure deeply rooted dissatisfaction, we choose to do things that cure boredom. Oh yeah, another thing connected to this - they say you should commit yourself to not sinning for an entire lifetime so you could have a better afterlife, and yet so many people can't even commit to improving themselves day by day so they could have a better life on this earth. Should do well in school? Fuck that, you can't find a job even when you finish college anyway, might as well skip class. Have a fitness goal? Nah, life is short, let's grab some cake. Can't be arsed to make an effort to contact your friends regularly? Fuck that, plenty of more where that came from, even if I stay alone I'll have my cats.
---- 7.0 means the album is good
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| Vikingr Posts: 179  |
Written by Milena on 03.04.2012 at 00:07 So in heaven, or at least their version of it, no one gets laid .... huh, somehow hell is beginning to look very appealing at the moment  However I'm an Asatruer so the whole thing about sex in general as a sin doesn't really apply.
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| Vikingr Posts: 179 |
In truth we are, if anything, encouraged to have sex so we can spread the love and such 
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by Vikingr on 07.04.2012 at 03:56 Wanna bang?
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Vikingr Posts: 179 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 07.04.2012 at 04:50 Fuck yeah I do!
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| Ernis 狼獾 Posts: 6815 |
Written by Vikingr on 07.04.2012 at 03:55 You most probably ain't gonna get laid in heaven (I assume neither in hell...) because of the simple fact that you're not going to have any body to have sex with (unintentional pun...) It's about the philosophical question: "If a woman is married to a man she really loves and then the man dies and the woman falls in love again and marries again, then which one of the two men gets to fuck her in heaven?" The idea is that sex will not be important in the afterlife because spirits exist without taking any physical form. You can't have sex if you lack physical shape. So, technically, spirits will probably exist in happy and endless state of love that we can't describe nor understand. We can only assume it's something beyond all the best expectations. What I wrote is not a scientific fact. It does make sense, tho, that life extends beyond physical boundaries. Sex as a sin? Depends. If you get to bang a girl you really love and it's all beautiful and nice then I can't really say there'd be anything negative about it. If you just fuck random people just because you want to fuck random people and there's no feelings nor any closeness nor respect nor understanding then it's just wasting away your life and eventually you might regret it and then you feel bad. Simple as that...
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| Vikingr Posts: 179 |
Written by Ernis on 07.04.2012 at 21:19 That I suppose I can agree with 
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| nehrodwarf Posts: 468  |
Nice, but let's see if I got what you wrote. You said that's normal to build at "ocidental" places, cathedrals or any christian temples, and mosques and synagoges are "culturaly" forbidden; and to "piss off" some "middle-east religions" is a crime, however, it happens at the ociental places... nice point, it's very controversal this situation. So let's think about this. Well, at first point, why is "forbidden", or at least, "exotic" to build some mosque or synagoge at the center of city? well I guess that's cultural question, in these countries, specially Italy it has a very strong catholic influence (it's the cradle of catholicism), so the people who lives there, 90% or more are catholics. So i's passed generation by generation, so it's normal for instance they get shocked if the rome government allow to build a mosque in the center of city. So what I wanna mean with this example, I meant that the problem it's cultural, the people are "accostumed" to follow a fixed way of faith and when the idea to build a temple of another religion, in this particular case, shocks them. Ok, now the question about the criminaization of middle-east religions, specially judaism and muslim. t's a delicated question, because envolves many resns and the mainly it's the media question, but why the media matters about it? simple they need of something polemic, to appear on media so they get money with publicity. And other reason why are a "social-crime" to piss off these religions, it's why is a crime to piss off blacks, homosexuals and others minorities, because they are a minoroty and the people who belongs to these minority has the high positons on these society, I mean, they have a lot of money and power (bankers are jews; and arabian are known by to have great amount of oil, the black gold) well so to the media get fie with them they try to "make a good image" and defend them. Well as I wrote it has two worlds: the world of society, and the world of media and their high valued sponsors, as I metioned before. And these worlds doesn't has a syncronism of ideas, so this confused idea. Well my dear people what I wrote, it's just my opinion, personally opinion. So fell free to discuss with me and post some different opinion. At all every part has the good people and the bad people, be in religion, country or even on your workplace, so it's not good to generalize it ok.
---- In this life you can choose what kind of ave to be: a chicken or a phoexix. I choosen be a phoenix, cuz' I'm rebirthing from ashes Ps: my website it's: http://gcasweb.orgfree.com
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| Vikingr Posts: 179 |
Written by Vikingr on 08.04.2012 at 03:53 But I still say that if there isn't any sex at all (and yes, I'd much rather have an emotional connection with whoever I'm having sex with) I'm with Troy in hoping they reserve a special spot for me in Hell xD
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| Ernis 狼獾 Posts: 6815 |
Written by Vikingr on 08.04.2012 at 06:52 All right, but if you don't have a body in heaven (that means no sex) then why do you think you'd have a body in hell? It's rather logical to assume that your body will just decompose after death which means that if your spirit ends up in heaven or hell, there won't be any big difference about sex because you ain't going to have any sex in either place. And if heaven means spiritual well-being and love, and hell means spiritual torment and loneliness (once again, technically no sex in either place), then the latter option sucks even more... Written by nehrodwarf on 08.04.2012 at 05:04 Mosque in the centre of Rome? Mosque in the centre of any Italian town? Man, that's bloody effing impossible! Many Italian towns consist of antique, medieval and renaissance buildings and archaeological sites. They'd have to tear a part of it down in order to build a mosque or a synagogue. That's not possible. Italians can't even build a supermarket nor a subway in a city centre (let alone a mosque) because they can't destroy the cultural heritage they have. However, there's a synagogue in Florence. It's a very beautiful building and part of the historical heritage in its own right.
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| Vikingr Posts: 179 |
Written by Ernis on 08.04.2012 at 19:47 So in those terms your basically saying I'm fucked, or this case not fucked xD
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| Vikingr Posts: 179 |
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| Ernis 狼獾 Posts: 6815 |
Written by Vikingr on 09.04.2012 at 04:44 You're not fucked which means that you're fucked. But in all possible cases, you're not going to feel like you're fucked... This turned into a really fascinating conversation : )
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| Vikingr Posts: 179 |
Written by Ernis on 09.04.2012 at 20:18 I have to agree with you my friend 
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| Cynic Metalhead Ambrish Saxena Posts: 7564  |
If people do care to care from the microscope of what Religion: Double faces/ implacably standard is Welcome to this thread and post your shit. I don't think the most imperative things you can crotch it out until you have done a fucking PhD or something in this vast field of Religion. All you guys just talking about the Hit and Trial methods.
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322  |
Written by Milena on 03.04.2012 at 00:01 I find it to be so. It would be useless to explain why, but I, myself, am convinced, scientifically, spiritually and logically. I respect everyone who respects my ideas and beliefs. I've been brought up on religion (So it's not really my fault) and it seems legit to me. And I do respect your beliefs and take them into account too, as long as you don't try to destroy mine or make fun of them.
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 23.03.2012 at 15:16 Not trying to restart the argument, but that guy doesn't go to heaven. No he doesn't. Not all believers do, as a matter of fact.
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by R'Vannith on 23.03.2012 at 16:11 I'm not that heavily indoctrinated. I could have not given a fuck if I wanted to, but I've able to logically disprove all accusations against my beliefs, and can very logically prove them (I can if you want, I discovered a very convincing thing these few days). I do my religious duties, and you have to respect it. You can't doubt my sanity if I don't share your same ideas BTW.
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| Troy Killjoy perfunctionist Staff Posts: 21306 |
Written by Oaken on 10.04.2012 at 16:49 Really. At what point did that ever happen?
---- "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by Troy Killjoy on 10.04.2012 at 18:36 Maybe not to others, but to myself and to the point of convincing myslef I've been able. Again, let's end this thread: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi And I'm sane. Le you can't question the sanity of Beest the tr00l! 
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| R'Vannith ghedengi Elite Posts: 3099  |
Written by Oaken on 10.04.2012 at 16:49 I wasn't doubting your sanity, in fact I was supporting it. What is it about your beliefs that you can 'logically prove'? In general I don't require proof of your beliefs, you make it quite clear that you believe certain things, why would I need further proof of that? No I don't HAVE to respect the fact that you fulfill your 'religious duties', you have no right to tell me what I can or cannot do. But just because I don't have to respect your religious dedication doesn't mean that I don't or won't. I also could doubt your sanity, but no you're right, I can't doubt it (and I don't) based purely on the fact that you're opinion differs to mine.
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| Oaken Hipster Posts: 1322 |
Written by R'Vannith on 10.04.2012 at 18:55 I'm sorry if you misunderstood, but by religious duties I meant my ideas and beliefs. It's not telling you what to do. You're free, you can do whatever you want. I apologize if I was a bit angry when I wrote it. Don't take it seriously. Many of my posts here are insolent and not meant to be taken seriously. Since my last post, I've decided a new policy; To not try to make others change their views to suit my beliefs. I've found out that religion is pure "personal matters". But I'm known to change my mind a lot so...
---- In that case, man is only air as well.
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| R'Vannith ghedengi Elite Posts: 3099 |
Written by Oaken on 10.04.2012 at 19:23 If there is one policy I'd advise you to stick to its what you've mentioned there, a good one for any person to have. And don't worry I didn't take it seriously. Remember that you are free to discuss your beliefs, but yes if there is a belief someone else holds which is contradictory to yours you can't claim that it is plain wrong. You can always say that according to your own faith it is considered incorrect, but remember to keep your new policy in mind.
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