Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.08.2011 at 14:51

Written by [user id=105293] on 25.08.2011 at 14:35

Written by X-Ray Rod on 25.08.2011 at 14:32

This may be off topic, but "90s: The Fall Of Thrash" would be an awesome title for a documentary.

A good follow up to the documentary in my signature

Written by IronAngel on 25.08.2011 at 22:50

Don't tell me you can't name a single manufactured, commercially-inclined chart band in power metal, thrash metal, death metal, black metal or even doom?

Written by Introspekrieg on 27.08.2011 at 20:36

If you want to feel special, have your mommy rub some vaseline on your heinie...

Written by Zealot644 on 27.08.2011 at 21:02

Written by Introspekrieg on 27.08.2011 at 20:36

If you want to feel special, have your mommy rub some vaseline on your heinie...

I'm confused. Does that make -you- feel special or something o.o?

Written by Introspekrieg on 27.08.2011 at 20:36

I know incredibly smart people that listen to the "backwards" stuff on the radio... musical taste has no correlation with intellect.

If you want to feel special, have your mommy rub some vaseline on your heinie...

Written by Zombie94 on 27.08.2011 at 13:30


There's still metal bands that are trying to appeal to a certain demographic for commercial gains (BFMV, A7X, BMTH, Disturbed etc. etc.), but not to the extent of any of the pop, rap, hip hop or R&B acts I'm subjected to hearing every day getting airtime on the radio.

Written by Zombie94 on 27.08.2011 at 13:30

So I see no way for something as acquired a taste as black or death metal to catch on, even in its most watered down and commercialised forms.

Written by Zombie94 on 27.08.2011 at 13:30

Written by IronAngel on 25.08.2011 at 22:50

Don't tell me you can't name a single manufactured, commercially-inclined chart band in power metal, thrash metal, death metal, black metal or even doom?

Well no, actually, I can't think of one time I've ever heard black metal or death metal on radio, let alone mainstream radio. There's still metal bands that are trying to appeal to a certain demographic for commercial gains (BFMV, A7X, BMTH, Disturbed etc. etc.), but not to the extent of any of the pop, rap, hip hop or R&B acts I'm subjected to hearing every day getting airtime on the radio. I refuse to believe that extreme metal will ever acquire mainstream acceptance; it's just too alien in melody, rhythm and general sound to anything most people are used to hearing. Even bands that could hardly be considered extreme in sound like Slipknot or Disturbed are shunned and generalised by maintream listeners. So I see no way for something as acquired a taste as black or death metal to catch on, even in its most watered down and commercialised forms.

Written by Scorpyin on 27.08.2011 at 19:47

Except the masses of people are incredibly stupid, so it only makes sence that radio would play stupid music to appeal to the masses. Sure if the radio played metal, the world COULD become a little more enlightened and appreciate a more progressive sound (instead of goin backwards and using autotune and drum machines, ugh!). But the average idiot doesn't want to hear about how their country sucks and the government is slowly killing free will. They'd rather hear about dancing in the club and making money from the shitty single you're currently listening to (which to me is almost insulting), because they too, are idiots. Just be glad you posses the intellect to recognize sometihng great when its presented to you. (I'm also not saying anything other than metal sucks, there may be other good songs out there... I've just yet to hear them hahahaha!!)

Written by whatsacow on 28.08.2011 at 11:58

Just at the opening paragraph: While I love metal, I must say the vast majority of metal is very generic. Look at all the death metal bands who sound exactly the fucking same. So, while I believe that metal has some pretty amazing talent behind it, it's largely very unoriginal. Even Prog metal, which is supposed to be about pushing the genre further, all sounds the same. But in every genre, there are always bands who are very different from the norm. For Rap take a look at cLOUDDEAD, a rap group who put as much emphasis into creating a mood and soundscaping as they do on their lyrics. For Pop, look at that... whats her name? The one who did "Last day on Earth?" Well, while that song is very generic and (for lack of better words) shit, the rest of her music merges pop, rock and opera in a very cool way.
While I love metal (hence why I am on this site almost every day), it isn't the most original genre out there - just the most awesome

Written by JCJen7 on 28.08.2011 at 01:44

Written by Zombie94 on 27.08.2011 at 13:30


There's still metal bands that are trying to appeal to a certain demographic for commercial gains (BFMV, A7X, BMTH, Disturbed etc. etc.), but not to the extent of any of the pop, rap, hip hop or R&B acts I'm subjected to hearing every day getting airtime on the radio.

I have a bit of a problem with a statement like this, considering that you have absolutely no idea what those bands are trying to do. I mean, the only band I really listen to there is Avenged Sevenfold, but, as a fan, I would not say they are doing this only for the money. And exactly what demographic would that be? Because I am a teenager (probably what you were referring to) but if I play Avenged Sevenfold for my dad (a rock n roll fan) or one of my friends (mainly rap fans) they would certainly enjoy it more than if I showed them some lesser known black metal band. Avenged Sevenfold is simply not that extreme of music. They have very nice melodies, catchy riffs, and their songs are engineered to sound pleasing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are engineered to make money. I personally believe those guys love making music, they have hit lows (losing their drummer), been openly very emotional about it, and basically tributed an entire album to him. They have also hit highs, (Nightmare topping charts at no. 1), but it bothers me that people think of them as just corporate machines that churn out assembly line metal to make money. When in fact, they are musical artists. Musical artists that many people enjoy, even a very devote metalhead like myself. And they are people too, who despite have seen the very lows of the jobs they have, have continued to make music. Maybe because they want money. But maybe, maybe because they like it.

Written by Zombie94 on 27.08.2011 at 13:30

So I see no way for something as acquired a taste as black or death metal to catch on, even in its most watered down and commercialised forms.

Thats irrelevant. No one was saying anything about black or death becoming "popular" in terms of selling millions, and getting radio play. but simply, becoming less ambitious musically to sell more units.

Written by IronAngel on 28.08.2011 at 11:40

Written by Zombie94 on 27.08.2011 at 13:30

Written by IronAngel on 25.08.2011 at 22:50

Don't tell me you can't name a single manufactured, commercially-inclined chart band in power metal, thrash metal, death metal, black metal or even doom?

Well no, actually, I can't think of one time I've ever heard black metal or death metal on radio, let alone mainstream radio. There's still metal bands that are trying to appeal to a certain demographic for commercial gains (BFMV, A7X, BMTH, Disturbed etc. etc.), but not to the extent of any of the pop, rap, hip hop or R&B acts I'm subjected to hearing every day getting airtime on the radio. I refuse to believe that extreme metal will ever acquire mainstream acceptance; it's just too alien in melody, rhythm and general sound to anything most people are used to hearing. Even bands that could hardly be considered extreme in sound like Slipknot or Disturbed are shunned and generalised by maintream listeners. So I see no way for something as acquired a taste as black or death metal to catch on, even in its most watered down and commercialised forms.

There's a mighty leap of logic here: because metal isn't quite as successful and popular than some other genre, it must be more artistically ambitious. You really seem to be saying that metal doesn't reach top positions in single charts because it's not commercial. It's funny that I never see a metalhead making the more plausible (though probably no more correct) conclusion instead: metal isn't as successful because it's just not good enough. That would be logical. You're just making excuses for the relative obscurity of metal.

I don't know how it is in Ireland, but in Finland big metal releases end up on the album sales chart by default. New Megadeth was on 24/7 when it came out, and I've heard pretty much every subgenre of metal played on the radio at some point or another. It's not to the extent that happens in some other genres, but that isn't the point. Around here, metal certainly isn't "shunned" in the mainstream. This testifies that metal's obscurity is not inherent in the (supposedly more "extreme") music itself but the musical culture of society.

Maybe "chart band" was a poor choice of words, but I was referring to the kind of bands I described: manufactured, commercially-inclined, lacking in true artistic ambition and innovation. Don't be fooled by the self-satisfaction of the metalhead community: they're still an impressionable target demographic to whom labels market their newest investments. Just because metal bands are marketed at a smaller demographic than some R&B artists doesn't make them more artistic. Why do you think labels pick up and promote most new bands? Not because their trained ears hear something artistic in them, but because their experience in their job tells them that this band is marketable.

Written by Scorpyin on 27.08.2011 at 19:47

Except the masses of people are incredibly stupid, so it only makes sence that radio would play stupid music to appeal to the masses. Sure if the radio played metal, the world COULD become a little more enlightened and appreciate a more progressive sound (instead of goin backwards and using autotune and drum machines, ugh!). But the average idiot doesn't want to hear about how their country sucks and the government is slowly killing free will. They'd rather hear about dancing in the club and making money from the shitty single you're currently listening to (which to me is almost insulting), because they too, are idiots. Just be glad you posses the intellect to recognize sometihng great when its presented to you. (I'm also not saying anything other than metal sucks, there may be other good songs out there... I've just yet to hear them hahahaha!!)

Not sure what radio stations you've been listening, but around here many of my favorite artists are played on the radio. Some of them (like the Finnish PMMP) even top the charts. I just heard Kate Bush's Wuthering Heights at work the other day, and I can't name many metal songs that are as brilliant as that perfect pop song. And without bragging, I can say it's pretty likely that I am smarter than you (because statistically, I am pretty fucking smart). You do have some whiff of a good point in there: musical competence probably does play part in what you enjoy. It's not about intelligence, but it's not purely about arbitrary taste either. Tastes are acquired, and it's a fact that music has varying degrees of transparency, originality, musical prowess, and different times have different standards for good music, etc. A casual listener might enjoy something a music buff (a fan of any genre) would consider rather banal. But that means the music has a different target demographic and serves a different purpose. It has nothing to do with these people being too dumb to recognize the greatness of non-mainstream music, but simply that their level of musical competence is such that they are still able to enjoy their casual listening habits. They don't need the pretentious wankery that's so necessary for us jaded music buffs to get our kicks these days. I don't see what's so admirable in our loss of innocense. Personally, I miss the times when everything sounded new and great.

Written by Zombie94 on 29.08.2011 at 00:47

Written by JCJen7 on 28.08.2011 at 01:44

Written by Zombie94 on 27.08.2011 at 13:30


There's still metal bands that are trying to appeal to a certain demographic for commercial gains (BFMV, A7X, BMTH, Disturbed etc. etc.), but not to the extent of any of the pop, rap, hip hop or R&B acts I'm subjected to hearing every day getting airtime on the radio.

I have a bit of a problem with a statement like this, considering that you have absolutely no idea what those bands are trying to do. I mean, the only band I really listen to there is Avenged Sevenfold, but, as a fan, I would not say they are doing this only for the money. And exactly what demographic would that be? Because I am a teenager (probably what you were referring to) but if I play Avenged Sevenfold for my dad (a rock n roll fan) or one of my friends (mainly rap fans) they would certainly enjoy it more than if I showed them some lesser known black metal band. Avenged Sevenfold is simply not that extreme of music. They have very nice melodies, catchy riffs, and their songs are engineered to sound pleasing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are engineered to make money. I personally believe those guys love making music, they have hit lows (losing their drummer), been openly very emotional about it, and basically tributed an entire album to him. They have also hit highs, (Nightmare topping charts at no. 1), but it bothers me that people think of them as just corporate machines that churn out assembly line metal to make money. When in fact, they are musical artists. Musical artists that many people enjoy, even a very devote metalhead like myself. And they are people too, who despite have seen the very lows of the jobs they have, have continued to make music. Maybe because they want money. But maybe, maybe because they like it.

Written by Zombie94 on 27.08.2011 at 13:30

So I see no way for something as acquired a taste as black or death metal to catch on, even in its most watered down and commercialised forms.

Thats irrelevant. No one was saying anything about black or death becoming "popular" in terms of selling millions, and getting radio play. but simply, becoming less ambitious musically to sell more units.

Avenged Sevenfold play music that appeals to the casual music listener. I'm not saying they're not good musicians, I am saying that their music is dumbed down, especially lyrically. As for the demographic I was talking about, it had nothing to do with age. I'm talking about how those bands appeal to the same demographic of people I see walking down the street wearing a BMTH t shirt with straightened black hair. Your dad and rap fans would enjoy it because it's not an extreme form of metal, such as the black and death metal bands I was referring to. Funny that Nightmare, perhaps one of their worst albums to date, is now at number 1. The charts are determined by the tastes of casual music listeners who don't have the patience or interest in music to delve any deeper than the newest catchy single the radio spoonfeeds them. A7X are musical artists? Of course they are, so is anyone who picks up an instrument and plays a song. It doesn't mean I have to respect them. I really don't see what you're arguing here. If you enjoy A7X then that's your taste, but i feel that if they are as talented as you say then they're certainly playing at only a tenth of what they're capable of cus what i'm hearing (especially with the new album) is weak.

Written by Scorpyin on 27.08.2011 at 19:47
(I'm also not saying anything other than metal sucks, there may be other good songs out there... I've just yet to hear them hahahaha!!)

Written by whatsacow on 29.08.2011 at 05:42

Written by Zombie94 on 29.08.2011 at 00:47

Written by JCJen7 on 28.08.2011 at 01:44

Written by Zombie94 on 27.08.2011 at 13:30


There's still metal bands that are trying to appeal to a certain demographic for commercial gains (BFMV, A7X, BMTH, Disturbed etc. etc.), but not to the extent of any of the pop, rap, hip hop or R&B acts I'm subjected to hearing every day getting airtime on the radio.

I have a bit of a problem with a statement like this, considering that you have absolutely no idea what those bands are trying to do. I mean, the only band I really listen to there is Avenged Sevenfold, but, as a fan, I would not say they are doing this only for the money. And exactly what demographic would that be? Because I am a teenager (probably what you were referring to) but if I play Avenged Sevenfold for my dad (a rock n roll fan) or one of my friends (mainly rap fans) they would certainly enjoy it more than if I showed them some lesser known black metal band. Avenged Sevenfold is simply not that extreme of music. They have very nice melodies, catchy riffs, and their songs are engineered to sound pleasing, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are engineered to make money. I personally believe those guys love making music, they have hit lows (losing their drummer), been openly very emotional about it, and basically tributed an entire album to him. They have also hit highs, (Nightmare topping charts at no. 1), but it bothers me that people think of them as just corporate machines that churn out assembly line metal to make money. When in fact, they are musical artists. Musical artists that many people enjoy, even a very devote metalhead like myself. And they are people too, who despite have seen the very lows of the jobs they have, have continued to make music. Maybe because they want money. But maybe, maybe because they like it.

Written by Zombie94 on 27.08.2011 at 13:30

So I see no way for something as acquired a taste as black or death metal to catch on, even in its most watered down and commercialised forms.

Thats irrelevant. No one was saying anything about black or death becoming "popular" in terms of selling millions, and getting radio play. but simply, becoming less ambitious musically to sell more units.

Avenged Sevenfold play music that appeals to the casual music listener. I'm not saying they're not good musicians, I am saying that their music is dumbed down, especially lyrically. As for the demographic I was talking about, it had nothing to do with age. I'm talking about how those bands appeal to the same demographic of people I see walking down the street wearing a BMTH t shirt with straightened black hair. Your dad and rap fans would enjoy it because it's not an extreme form of metal, such as the black and death metal bands I was referring to. Funny that Nightmare, perhaps one of their worst albums to date, is now at number 1. The charts are determined by the tastes of casual music listeners who don't have the patience or interest in music to delve any deeper than the newest catchy single the radio spoonfeeds them. A7X are musical artists? Of course they are, so is anyone who picks up an instrument and plays a song. It doesn't mean I have to respect them. I really don't see what you're arguing here. If you enjoy A7X then that's your taste, but i feel that if they are as talented as you say then they're certainly playing at only a tenth of what they're capable of cus what i'm hearing (especially with the new album) is weak.

Just because something is accessible does not mean it is a cash grab. They might just like the music they play. Look at something like nirvana. Quite accessible and yet Cobaine never wanted the fame or wealth. He just loved music.

Written by Doc G. on 29.08.2011 at 22:12

Also A7X is largely an amalgamation of the most easily digestible aspects of Metallica and Guns N Roses. That's why it's hard to view it as anything but a cash grab.

Written by Doc G. on 29.08.2011 at 22:12

Also A7X is largely an amalgamation of the most easily digestible aspects of Metallica and Guns N Roses. That's why it's hard to view it as anything but a cash grab.

Written by whatsacow on 30.08.2011 at 14:36

Written by Doc G. on 29.08.2011 at 22:12

Also A7X is largely an amalgamation of the most easily digestible aspects of Metallica and Guns N Roses. That's why it's hard to view it as anything but a cash grab.

I'm not a fan of the music either, however I must repeat myself. Maybe A7X like Metallica and GnR and wanted to merge the sounds together. Maybe thats just the style of music they like to play. It does not mean its a cash grab. I think if I was into that style of music, I'd make something similar just because I like the sound of the music.

Written by JCJen7 on 31.08.2011 at 02:33

Written by whatsacow on 30.08.2011 at 14:36

Written by Doc G. on 29.08.2011 at 22:12

Also A7X is largely an amalgamation of the most easily digestible aspects of Metallica and Guns N Roses. That's why it's hard to view it as anything but a cash grab.

I'm not a fan of the music either, however I must repeat myself. Maybe A7X like Metallica and GnR and wanted to merge the sounds together. Maybe thats just the style of music they like to play. It does not mean its a cash grab. I think if I was into that style of music, I'd make something similar just because I like the sound of the music.

That is spot on of what I was trying to say. YES, their music does make money. However, maybe that's the music they like. What if in some other dimension, everyone loves raw black metal, and all these kvlt bands here are rockstars there, and get called sellouts, while a7x are unpopular, and are therefore considered to be doing it only for the love of the music.

Does the style of music that society loves really determine if a band is making music to make music, or for money? I find that incredibly shallow, and a simplistic view on a set of musician's personal goals and values. In addition to being offensive to their fans, saying that they are simply crowds of consumers mindlessly buying what sounds nice. Personally, my a7x CD's get played just as much as my death metal and thrash metal stuff.

Written by JCJen7 on 31.08.2011 at 02:33

Written by whatsacow on 30.08.2011 at 14:36

Written by Doc G. on 29.08.2011 at 22:12

Also A7X is largely an amalgamation of the most easily digestible aspects of Metallica and Guns N Roses. That's why it's hard to view it as anything but a cash grab.

I'm not a fan of the music either, however I must repeat myself. Maybe A7X like Metallica and GnR and wanted to merge the sounds together. Maybe thats just the style of music they like to play. It does not mean its a cash grab. I think if I was into that style of music, I'd make something similar just because I like the sound of the music.

That is spot on of what I was trying to say. YES, their music does make money. However, maybe that's the music they like. What if in some other dimension, everyone loves raw black metal, and all these kvlt bands here are rockstars there, and get called sellouts, while a7x are unpopular, and are therefore considered to be doing it only for the love of the music.

Does the style of music that society loves really determine if a band is making music to make music, or for money? I find that incredibly shallow, and a simplistic view on a set of musician's personal goals and values. In addition to being offensive to their fans, saying that they are simply crowds of consumers mindlessly buying what sounds nice. Personally, my a7x CD's get played just as much as my death metal and thrash metal stuff.

Written by [user id=115824] on 28.11.2011 at 20:31

Alright there has been alot of shit said that i agree with and dont agree with as well. I hate alot of types of music, but ive listened to pretty much every kind out there, and metal to me takes the most talent and skill and has the most heart in it. The thing with "mainstream" shit like rap and hip hop like Zealot644 said is that when a new song comes out by one of these "artists" its a fucking popular hit for about two weeks if that then no one ever listens to it after that. Those people do this shit to make money hell everyone does, but in metal, the musicians make songs to last a life time, and they do. Now metal isnt the only music genre i like. I do like classical, some pop, rock, and i also love punk. There are good musicians in every aspect of music, but metal just gets it for me. I grew up on metal. I was about 7 or 8 years old when i started listening to it and it stuck. There is for a fact way more talent in metal, not every band has talent though i will admit. But shit, all rappers do is pretty much rhyme words and use a syntheziser on their voice, plus all the beats are made with a computer. Now a fucking 4 year old can rhyme okay. Id like to see any of those "artists" play a guitar at 240 beats per minute and sing at the same time. Metal IS the greatest music ever. Period.

Written by [user id=115824] on 28.11.2011 at 20:31

rant