Written by Zealot644 on 18.06.2012 at 04:25

Written by tea[m]ster on 17.06.2012 at 21:18

Written by Zealot644 on 16.06.2012 at 21:03

So, did any of you ever do something like this for others?

You need to talk to my wife, she just doesn't get it.

Your wife doesnt understand why people like metal?

Or maybe she doesn't get the music itself

First of all, Protest the Hero aren't really metal...

...moving on. I've actually found the opposite, at least in my case. Since I listen to metal, I think I am very closed minded about other types of music, in that, I think all types of music suck. Even most metal, to be honest. There's a LOT of bad metal out there...way more bad than good, in my opinion, or generic/uninteresting enough so that I wont bother listening to it. I've found that metal makes most people music snobs, if anything.

I found if someone does not like metal and you are gonna get them into it i think the 70's are a good place to start i myself love and listen to black metal most of the time but i understand how off putting some black metal is for people and the harsh vocal style of singing surely is not for everyone.You don't want their first Cd to be Mayhem or Deicide.

Written by Necrox on 18.06.2012 at 04:56

Written by Zealot644 on 18.06.2012 at 04:25

Written by tea[m]ster on 17.06.2012 at 21:18

Written by Zealot644 on 16.06.2012 at 21:03

So, did any of you ever do something like this for others?

You need to talk to my wife, she just doesn't get it.

Your wife doesnt understand why people like metal?

Or maybe she doesn't get the music itself

Tried anything that could be considered easy listening? Instrumental stuff does wonders.

Written by Darkfiber on 18.06.2012 at 07:20

First of all, Protest the Hero aren't really metal...

Haha! What?!

Written by Zealot644 on 18.06.2012 at 13:51

Written by Darkfiber on 18.06.2012 at 07:20

First of all, Protest the Hero aren't really metal...

Haha! What?!

They are technical punk, brah.

Metal didn't make me any more musically open minded.

if anything it was an already exploratory mindset coupled with picking up and trying to learn how to play guitar.

not particularly sure if i've 'planted metal seeds' in others. i've made suggestions to those friends of mine who are also more exploratory in nature. if anything Ministry is a great bridge to cover gaps. the band became increasingly metal while still retaining cred with the alternapalooza crowd.

Written by tea[m]ster on 17.06.2012 at 21:18

Written by Zealot644 on 16.06.2012 at 21:03

So, did any of you ever do something like this for others?

You need to talk to my wife, she just doesn't get it.

try something similar to what she already listens to, maybe then she"ll start to like it
what does she really enjoy?

Written by Uldreth on 17.06.2012 at 22:54

What does have nutritional value then?

I do agree with the vast majority of what you are saying but I really doubt anything has nutritional value at all. It would be absolutely pretentious to have anything put above something else here based on "artistic values" that's just gonna be subjective anyways. Progheads might be raving about Dream Theater being oh-so-fucking artsy and complex and whatnot but to me it is tearfully boring instrumental wankery and I would take a simple and "poppy" band like All That Remains for example over them any day.

In the end the only semi-reasonable way you can put any music over the other (aside from personal preference) is to look at the intent behind its creation. I have very little respect for music that is more a product than self-expression like the majority of really mainstream pop music, but as long as any music is made with the intent of genuine self-expression, I cannot really put anything above the other in terms of artistic values.
Metal is diverse, there is very simple metal and very complex metal (all pretense aside I really do think tech death is one of the most technically demanding contemporary music genre be it "popular" music or self-righteously and pretentiously designated "art music". And music does not have to be complex to be artsy or good at all.

What I meant by nutritional value is that most of Metal is not that much different from the mass produced music that metalheads hate so much. But this is not a bad thing per se. If anything it is a consequence of today's music industry that constantly pressures artists to put out as much material as possible and often limit the resources available to them.

How many metal musicians actually have a working knowledge of Music Theory and Composition? Not very many, in fact I'm fairly certain that Lady Gaga has more knowledge about music than most metal musicians. If we take Heavy Metal for what it is musically and lyrically it will not be very impressive, for the most part.

But we don't listen to Metal just for what it is Musically and Lyrically. The whole package comes with theatrics; it comes with the eclectic mixture of singing and playing techniques; it comes with the imagery and the costumes; and most importantly it comes with the community (which for the most part is great). All of these things make metal an excellent form of entertainment but not necessarily the pinacle of contemporary music or the ultimate form of modern artistic expression -- so we should treat it as so.

There is not much, musically speaking, that separates Metal from Country, Folk, Modern Rock, Pop/rock, and even Rap. If art is so subjective, why do metalheads insist on having this sense of elitism over other types of music that require just about the same level of skill to play and compose? There are excellent musicians, albums, and songs from each of these genres -- listening to Metallica or Iron Maiden does not automatically make you more "deep" or smarter than someone who genuinely enjoys Usher or Green Day. I sense that this feeling of pseudo-elitism is particularly strong with the younger metalheads (those in the 15-25 age range), which is a shame.

I agree that Metal can be very complex at times. I will also say that there are bands pushing the envelop and expending the genre to new borders. I do not deny the fact that there are excellent Metal musicians out there that are certainly worthy of all the praise they get. But on average, Metal is not any better than its siblings.

I had a similar effect when I played some more melodic metal to some people I know back in my school days.
I think to get into a wide array of metal does require an open mind.
Folk Metal......Symphonic Black Metal .......Any metal with Prog elements.........Any of those genres demand an open mind/intelligence from the listeners, cuz they'll most likely be multi-layered or possibly complexed.




P.S. @ Zealot644: Not to stray off topic, but the pic of you in your profile, was that taken somewhere in The Bahamas? Seriously the backround looks distinctly Bahamian.

Written by Darkfiber on 18.06.2012 at 18:39

They are technical punk, brah.

Is there even such a genre?

I don't think I've ever been able to free any captive souls using the power of metal. I figure it would take the most epic Rhapsody of Fire track to do so.

That's not to say I don't suggest it to people. Most people don't like it. Although, I did get one of my friends to really get into Slayer, which we both agree on being one of the top metal bands to this day.

Written by [user id=101272] on 18.06.2012 at 21:59
Is there even such a genre?

Technical punk sounds like an oxymoron to me...

Written by Troy Killjoy on 19.06.2012 at 00:41

Written by [user id=101272] on 18.06.2012 at 21:59
Is there even such a genre?

Technical punk sounds like an oxymoron to me...

Like technical funeral doom... Now THAT'S interesting.

Considering it came from a guy who disregards Protest the Hero as a metal band, I'm not surprised he responded by making up a new genre just to describe them.

God forbid metalcore is still a thing, right?

Written by Darkfiber on 18.06.2012 at 18:39

Written by Zealot644 on 18.06.2012 at 13:51

Written by Darkfiber on 18.06.2012 at 07:20

First of all, Protest the Hero aren't really metal...

Haha! What?!

They are technical punk, brah.

I can see why you'd think that if you only heard their first few EPs/first album. Throw on Fortress or Scurrilous, totally prog/prog metalcore. Any punk in there is pretty much obscured by all the...uhmm...metal riffing.

They definitely have their punk side (more noticeable in their older stuff), but to flat out say they're just not metal at all is a bit silly.

Written by [user id=101272] on 18.06.2012 at 21:59

Written by Darkfiber on 18.06.2012 at 18:39

They are technical punk, brah.

Is there even such a genre?

http://www.last.fm/tag/technical%20punk/artists

Written by Darkfiber on 20.06.2012 at 00:55
http://www.last.fm/tag/technical%20punk/artists

Sir, I think you're overestimating the validity of Last.fm music junkies.

Written by vezzy on 20.06.2012 at 01:01

Written by Darkfiber on 20.06.2012 at 00:55
http://www.last.fm/tag/technical%20punk/artists

Sir, I think you're overestimating the validity of Last.fm music junkies.

I don't care about, nor have ever used Last.fm. I just googled "technical punk" and that's the first thing that came up. I was merely trying to prove that I didn't just make up that genre on the spot as there are many other people in the world that refer to that as a genre. Hell, if djent can be a genre, then surely so can technical punk. And there are many more bands on that list that sound like Protest the Hero than any metal bands I can think of.

Written by Darkfiber on 20.06.2012 at 01:23

I just googled "technical punk" and that's the first thing that came up.

Sir, I think you're overestimating the validity of Google.

Dark's strange opinion derailed this thread a bit. If you click on Protest The Hero on your 'technical punk' page, you'll read their description of "Protest the Hero are a Canadian progressive metal band from Whitby, Ontario."

Anyways, point proven. Let's get back on topic please everybody

Written by Zealot644 on 18.06.2012 at 04:25

Your wife doesnt understand why people like metal?

Ha, no, she doesn't like metal at all. I try with her, play it in the car when we are together or play it at home when she is around. About as heavy as she gets is Queensryche's Empire, and that's a very commercial album...

Written by theFIST on 18.06.2012 at 20:03

try something similar to what she already listens to, maybe then she"ll start to like it
what does she really enjoy?

Bon Jovi is her favorite band, she can tolerate Queensryche and Rush and maybe some of the newer stuff on the radio like Chevelle, Taproot, and Linkin Park. I think she is a lost cause when it comes to heavier stuff...

Written by tea[m]ster on 21.06.2012 at 00:23

Written by theFIST on 18.06.2012 at 20:03

try something similar to what she already listens to, maybe then she"ll start to like it
what does she really enjoy?

Bon Jovi is her favorite band, she can tolerate Queensryche and Rush and maybe some of the newer stuff on the radio like Chevelle, Taproot, and Linkin Park. I think she is a lost cause when it comes to heavier stuff...

used to really enjoy bon jovi when i was in elementary school
am i assuming correctly that means wanting understandable, not too harsh vocals and a traditional song structure?
if yes you might have success with late Strapping Young Lad, and maybe also with I and Book Of Black Earth

Written by Darkfiber on 18.06.2012 at 07:20

First of all, Protest the Hero aren't really metal...

...moving on. I've actually found the opposite, at least in my case. Since I listen to metal, I think I am very closed minded about other types of music, in that, I think all types of music suck. Even most metal, to be honest. There's a LOT of bad metal out there...way more bad than good, in my opinion, or generic/uninteresting enough so that I wont bother listening to it. I've found that metal makes most people music snobs, if anything.

Fortunately for us all, not everyone shares your mindset. I'm not talking about technical punk, others have already addressed that absurdity. I mean the whole metal causes close mindedness thing.

The reality is that people are going to be either close minded, open minded, or any one of the scores of varying degrees between those two opposites irregardless of what they listen to. I like to think of myself as mostly open minded, but I am not fully open minded, I'd be a hypocrite to label myself as such because I am very close minded towards several types of music, though few and far between as they are.

But the point is that listening to metal doesn't make someone open or close minded in and or itself. Not everyone goes down a path of just one style of extreme metal and then thinks every other style sucks (including the ones that got them to that point). And not everyone opens up to every single style of not just metal, but other music as well either. Even those of us with the most eclectic of tastes won't like everything.

So I don't think that the OP's opinion that metal opens minds holds much water, sorry dude. But I also don't think that this opinion that metal just makes people snobs is valid either. The answer to this thread is that there isn't really an answer, just conflicting generalizations.

I will say this though, I can understand why the OP made this topic. But "metal" could be replaced by anything that is non-mainstream. Punk, underground hip-hop, Indyrock, AOR type stuff, etc... could all substitute the word metal. I love metal, but it's like any other thing that has loyal followings despite not being widely popular. Does watching indie films open people's minds up about narrative? Or do poems do that? Or Broadway theater? There really isn't an answer. But it's probably safe to say that big budget CGI fests like Transformers 3 do indeed fail to expand people's minds, much like Ke$ha fails to do the same in the music world.

I understand how both sides of the argument can work... I can see how someone might be exploring various types of music and then stop when they finally discover metal and realize it's what they've been looking for. I don't know if I can say that my level of open-mindedness changed because of metal though. It made me become closed to a lot of other genres (mainly pop and radio rock), especially during the "tr00 metal" phase that a lot of metalheads go through when the nu metal or metalcore phase passes, but I think it opened me to some others as well. I never really liked opera vocals until I heard them in symphonic metal and I think folk metal gave me more appreciation for folk music in general.

A lot of people tell me that more extreme types of metal are an acquired taste. I will definitely agree on that one. I couldn't stand that stuff before and never would have guessed that it would become my favourite genre years ago... I started with melodic metal and my taste gradually got more extreme over the years. As for getting people into metal, it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't... Some people won't like it regardless of what you start them off with. I got my childhood best friend to listen to some melodic metal but she never really went out of her way for it and it was probably only because of my influence, since she reverted to pop music when we went our separate ways for university. But last week, I got a friend to go to a local metal show with me just because he had nothing better to do. He was expecting that he'd hate it, but he actually enjoyed it and said he finally "gets" metal... So now I have to wait and see how far into metal he gets

Not a single form of music will make you open minded ,not even art or books...
its the other way round ...if you are open minded you will be "open minded " when it comes to music
whether one is open minded or not depends on social and parental influence mostly ;perhaps tolerance is a thing you might learn from music and art in my humble opinion...

It opens your mind... to evil. Mwahahaha. ...Satan.
Sorry.

Written by [user id=101272] on 18.06.2012 at 21:59

Written by Darkfiber on 18.06.2012 at 18:39

They are technical punk, brah.

Is there even such a genre?

Yes, it exist.

Written by tea[m]ster on 21.06.2012 at 00:19

Written by Zealot644 on 18.06.2012 at 04:25

Your wife doesnt understand why people like metal?

Ha, no, she doesn't like metal at all. I try with her, play it in the car when we are together or play it at home when she is around. About as heavy as she gets is Queensryche's Empire, and that's a very commercial album...

Holy crap! you sound like my dad.







Are you my dad?