Finally figured who ran off with my girl and my accordion..

Sorry, if it's any consolation the girl left me for a German bodybuilder named Hans, and the accordion was flat.

Well, Bertha always had this fetish for "Arnie", guess Hans was the closest she got.

hm that image was kind of unnecessary, don't you think?

Anyway, back on topic I like tensed discussions like this. I don't really have much to add, besides that I would like to see ThrashMetal_Rulz give some valid arguments for his points. It isn't even so bad to dislike a genre because of its fans, or the popularity, but just admit it if that is the reason. Otherwise, explain why you really dislike a certain genre. For now it just sounds like one of the many metalheads who need to copy some personallity from the programmed "how-to-be-a-metalhead".

Hm, that is something I don't like about metal, and I think that grows stronger over the years. Metal is slowly becoming a lifestyle(or already is?) with a certain way to dress, a certain taste in music, trends, and gatherings for metal fans. I hate that, metal should be just a musical genre, not a lifestyle. It would give the listener also a lot more freedom, and trendy behaviour(that is clearly noticeable in this topic) wouldn't be necessary.

Written by AntaeusM on 08.05.2007 at 01:35


Hm, that is something I don't like about metal, and I think that grows stronger over the years. Metal is slowly becoming a lifestyle(or already is?) with a certain way to dress, a certain taste in music, trends, and gatherings for metal fans. I hate that, metal should be just a musical genre, not a lifestyle. It would give the listener also a lot more freedom, and trendy behaviour(that is clearly noticeable in this topic) wouldn't be necessary.

It could still be a life-style but "free" don't you think?
As long as you choose it yourself it doesn't really matter does it?

As long as you don't try to be a "metal-head" stereo-type, I believe a "metal lifestyle" is a great thing

Written by [user id=20369] on 08.05.2007 at 01:38

It could still be a life-style but "free" don't you think?

dream on.. let's define a lifestyle. A lifestyle is simply said a certain way of thinking, dressing, behaviour and spirituality(sometimes) that belongs to that lifestyle. Goths for example are forced to dress according to a dress code, they are also forced to enjoy certain bands.(Still remember laughable comments like "You are no goth, you don't know who the Sisters of Mercy are!). A perfect example why a lifestyle requires a certain music taste. Same for clothes, and thoughts, behaviour etc. Now, if metal becomes like that, and a so-called "free" metalhead says he enjoys Linkin Park. Then it would be only human if plus minus 95% of the metal scene would spit on him because he doesn't behave like the lifestyle. Same for a Christian who tries to play black metal, or a death metal band who sing about pretty flowers. It simply isn't possible, that freedom doesn't exist when it is a lifestyle. That's why metal should stay a genre of music, and not a lifestyle.

Written by [user id=20369] on 08.05.2007 at 01:38

As long as you choose it yourself it doesn't really matter does it?

It doesn't, but I do think that people should develop their own personallities, and their own opinion. However, that wouldn't be natural, would it?

Written by [user id=20369] on 08.05.2007 at 01:38

As long as you don't try to be a "metal-head" stereo-type, I believe a "metal lifestyle" is a great thing

lifestyle creates stereotypes. On what else are stereotypes based on? There are "unique" metalheads, same for any other lifestyle, but they are so rare..

@ Blackgir
I can see we have different views on a "life-style", so I'll just choose to shush, so we should choose to agree, to disagree.

Written by AntaeusM on 08.05.2007 at 01:35

hm that image was kind of unnecessary, don't you think?

Anyway, back on topic

Hm, that is something I don't like about metal, and I think that grows stronger over the years. Metal is slowly becoming a lifestyle(or already is?) with a certain way to dress, a certain taste in music, trends, and gatherings for metal fans. I hate that, metal should be just a musical genre, not a lifestyle. It would give the listener also a lot more freedom, and trendy behaviour(that is clearly noticeable in this topic) wouldn't be necessary.

Yeah, I suppose. Was just gonna post a pic of an accordion, but when I did the google image search, that one showed up and just screamed "POST ME!" (and all her naughty bits are covered) Besides, it might bring a light and amusing end to a heated conversation.

Better a nekkid chick (or guy, for those so inclined) with an accordion than a bunch of f-bombs and insults.

I can replace it, if you'd like.

I also agree with your last point to a bit. While I appreciate metal as a subculture which is greater than just a genre, I do not particularly care for the way that metal culture and metalheads can be every bit as close minded about things as the "mainstreamers." Rules to dictate dress, what is liked, what isn't.

While there might be a lot of open mindedness in the genre - which is largely responsible, in turn, for it's evolution over the last 35 years - there also exists an alarming degree of "we are open minded so long as it conforms to our rules of how things should be done" thought.

As you stated, it's apparent in this thread as well as numerous others.

Screw it. I'm going to Dimmu Borgir later this month. I don't know if they are currently on the acceptable "True Bands" list or not and, frankly, I don't care. I don't have long hair. And I'm not even going to wear black to the show.

Weeeeee.

Take that, True Police.

I actually have no idea if Metal is evolving to the better or worse, I'd probably go with better since I've discovered a lot "young" bands lately which are great. But for bands then, yeah, bands better evolve if one ask me. I've nothing against bands going back to their older days, but the at least need some albums that sound different from the others.

Metal will always be evolving, but I think it needs to keep some of its old qualities. I prefer bands from back then. Check my favorite bands if you dont know what I mean.

hmmm the evolution ov metal.........well metal nowadays is definately more flexible than the old school stuff and much less predictable. But the saddest part is, it [very very generally] has lost its feeling, like 'the metal spirit' is not present is most ov these new-school bands, they don't promote hedonism that much, like it's lost its party spirit,

Written by Silent Creeper on 06.06.2007 at 16:03

I don't consider nu-metal or -core genres (grindcore is not included ) as metal so I don't see why this would be problem. To me they are part of pop/mtv wannabe rock scene.

They most certainly should be counted as sub-genres of metal. They evolved from pre-existing harsher sub-genres of metal. Just because nu-metal and core sub-genre bands appear on MTV doesn't make them any less metal. In every genre of music there has to be an accessible factor that leads people into the genre. I say that nu metal and core bands are great for marketing heavy metal because they bring the curious listener into metal and from there on they interest themselves into the more meaningful, more metallic, more harsh and complex sub-genres of heavy metal. Just because heavy metal eludes into more a commercialized spectrum does not mean that these artists do not touch base with the key reason as to why they are on MTV. True, most core and nu metal listeners will never get it but you cannot blame ignorance on commercialization. No; nu, core and grind should still be counted because they do contain the rawness and emotion and these sub-genres of metal have evolved over the years. Some of us just can't see it, will not except it, ignore it, etc...

Old school for me... 80's and early 90's

Old school metal is great, but i like a lot of new metal bands like Andromeda, Kamelot, Epica, Circus Maximus, etc. They really disearve a chance. I like how metal is evolving bringing fresh bands with their own sound.

The whole metalthing is evolving. In many countries long hair and black stuff and so are much more excepted than in the past, yet not completely of course. If you want to fight against anything and be against anything it needs a lot of creativity, which young commercial metalheads often have not very much. So, they kick against the pricks but don't really kick ass. While many metallisteners aren't really metalheads nowadays because they don't want to change their lives according to their musicstyle. It is just a musical taste.
Some bands now are only playing for the "real metalheads," very underground and such, other bands have an idea where the real money can be found, there where people listen to metal but don't behave like metalheads with dirty long hair and old clothes with holes in it. They have jobs and so they have money. The metalscene thus changes in two direction, a bit a commercial one, with bands like Dimmu, which still rocks, nothing to complaint about that, but they have a commercial sound, and to a deeply underground, rotting, stinking, dirty black way with only view listeners. I think in the future this will get only worse, but I hope that there will be bands coming that make good music, but not to commercial, neither to much underground. A middle group as I would say really.

I would say that metal is evolving, and in some ways this is an improvement.

The focus of the music certainly seems to have expanded from the early days, when much of the subject matter dealt with themes of fantasy (ex. Iron Maiden), working class daily life (ex. Judas Priest) and partying (ex. Motley Crue). Over the last thirty years, we have seen metal become broader in its thematic scope to include philosophy, religion, political issues, folklore, etc. Metal has also become more complex, not just in terms of technical virtuosity of the musicians, but also in terms of the song composition itself.

To be sure, there are styles of metal nowadays that I do not enjoy. However, I recognize that, even in styles of music that I don't much like, there are musicians witrhin that style who are doing something new and innovative. I am able to respect it, even if I don't much like it.

The worst thing that can happen to metal is that it become stagnant. Fortunately, I see no sign of that happening anytime soon.

I personally like the way Metal has evolved. It seems that there's something within the vastness that is the metal for everyone to listen to now, because there seems to be so many genres within Metal now, that all sound different.
Melody - Check!
Orchestras - Check!
Non-Melodic - Check!
Heavyness - Check!
I would go on, but I can't think of anything else at the moment...
Even if you want something thats not so heavy, Metal's earleir stuff, Sabbath, Zeppelin, Glam Metal... Everybody's got something.

And I also agree that Metal has become a lifestyle, but that doesn't mean there's no freedom within it. There's no real specific definition on being Metal. In my friends, we all listen to different types of Metal, and all dress like obvious Metalheads. But we don't all look exactly the same, even though we all dress in black, and mostly have long hair, we still all have different sytles. So I wouldn't say it restricts freeedom at all.

ofc that metal is evolving wintersun just made the best metal style(its not extreme power for me it is wintersun metal)

Heavy metal evolving... now there's an interesting question.

Honestly, I am completely disillusioned with the metal scene nowadays. I don't have that much of a problem with the evolution of the music, as much as I do with the fanbase, who appear to lack morals, common sense or unison. This forum is probably one of the best I've been to, where most posters at least have some part of those aspects I just mentioned. I went on the Metal Archives forum recently and I was half-distraught, half-humoured by some of the posts I was reading. Metal fans just seem to have a lack of respect for anyone they see as having differing views of the world from them. The lack of morals is evident in music piracy and especially in observing the scene in Australia, I know for a fact that fans are often negligent towards the events happening in the metal world and while they choose to listen to the music, they fail to support it in anyway. It's just a lack of commitment that was present in the past in the 70s and 80s etc.

The music itself has evolved in a good way, it now offers a broad range of sub-genres and each sub-genre has more than a few good bands to offer listeners. New technology has allowed bands to create a much richer sound on their albums, which is definitely a large bonus to a genre such as metal. Unfortunately, originality is gone and bands now tend to pick a direction and go with it. It's great to see some bands trying to blend different styles and at least attempt to create something interesting, but too many bands are just following the same old formula and try too hard to be metal and forgetting about the music itself.

In general, I'm pleased with the state of heavy metal now... there've been a number of great albums to be released over the past few years that I have been extremely pleased with. So as long as such bands and albums keep coming, I have no real problem with metal's evolution.

Well, I think that metal, in general, is going in the right direction. Comparing metal nowadays to metal fro the 70s and NWOBM, you can see how far we've come. Of course, there will always be metal that happens to be mainstream-oriented/tainted (glam for the 80s, nu-metal for the 90s, metalcore for the 00s), and quite a few metalheads will always bitch about such genres, but with all the diversity from all the differing styles of metal....well, I can't say I'm pissed by its direction. So long as it remains fresh (like bread...mmm) and progressing (not necesarilly prog metal or w/e), I can be happy. =D

I like the direction it's going. Of course there are generic mainstream bands, but there always have been. There's also tons of really cool different types of metal emerging if you look a bit. I like all the different sub-genres and such coming out, it's made the genre much more dynamic.

The way I see it is you can't possibly make new music without producing a host of imitators. And with the state of commercialized music (radio, music television) most of these are in too much of a hurry to make a cool million that they sacrifice artistic integrity. Once upon a time it was glam rock, yesterday it was alternative rock (so called nu-metal), today it's metalcore. These trends come and go. It's just a part of the natural state of things.

I think Heavy Metal has evolved quite masterfully when compared to other genres: country, rap, and especially punk come to mind. There is not enough breathing room for these genres to get too carried away because of either melodic restrictions or lack of true creative powers. But imagine Black Sabbath's faces if they had heard Dream Theater or Yngwie Malmsteen in 1969! What have we created?!?

I love all different types of heavy metal, as long as they are played well and I can understand what's going on. Certain bands are tough for me to listen to, either because I am not challenged enough, or because of the lack of raw power. But to think it all started with a few bands (Sabbath, Zep, Deep Purple) and has now become what it is today is simply AMAZING to me! And everything in between.. It's just been an enjoyable ride through the years, listening to the ultimate genre of music played in so many different ways by so many different bands and artists. While I'm not a huge fan of some bands/sub-genres, I don't consider any of that Nu-Metal mess to have ruined anything, but rather only added to the collective pool of diversity that is metal. And one good thing that has come of the Nu-Metal: that is one more group of fans to consider metal "cool"! And metal is very cool, as we all know, and the more people that think that, the more people are on the right track, even if their particular brand doesn't quite Kill With Power! Rock on, ALL metal fans. No hate from Trinstar.

I really do like the fact that so many sub-genres have evolved within metal. I'm always able to find some form of metal to listen to that fits the mood that I'm in at the time.

metal will always change and grow. and with every change there are some ups and downs, that's the way it is with all music.

seeing as how metal seems to keep getting only eviller and harder, but now, I'm wondering, CAN metal get any harder than it already is? Riffs are already so fast and technical and lyrics are already so brutal and violent (in deathmetals case). Seriously, have we reached the limit? I think so, but if time can prove me wrong, I'm more than willing to follow.

Written by [user id=23805] on 20.08.2008 at 13:03
Looking at this logically, Slipknot has done far more for the metal scene than any Black or Death band. Whoever's popular, they're the ones making new metalheads. They bring 'em and the underground keeps 'em.

I don't know if I'd really call that a logical conclusion, I'm not so sure that bringing in more people is good (or even bad) for metal.

Written by [user id=23805] on 21.08.2008 at 01:07
Well nothing is 100%, but more people means more chances at life for metal, which means more chances at awesomeness for metal. Logic.

Yeah, but maybe Slipknot only brings in a certain type of person and the negative impact outweighs the positive?

Written by [user id=23805] on 21.08.2008 at 02:41
Well, we may just plain disagree right here, but I don't think there's "certain type of person". After all, I was big into nu-metal for a couple years before expanding into other genres. No groups of people, even slipknot fans, are inhabited by completely like-minded individuals.

The popularity of a band like Slipknot is going to make them known to such a wide variety of people that the people's only common interests may just be the general heaviness of the music. Some might be introduced to metal by the band and find themselves no longer a fan after they discover something more particular to their tastes.

I guess I just haven't heard of anyone who got into metal through Slipknot doing anything useful (although maybe some have and they're just afraid to admit it). But mainly I just don't think bands deserve praise just for being popular when they are doing damage by misrepresenting metal.

Written by [user id=23805] on 21.08.2008 at 20:11
You can't seriously think that having fewer metalheads will increase the genres chances of producing good music, can you?

It's certainly possible. Maybe Slipknot brings in idiots who by their presence in the metal scene drive out people who would otherwise be making quality metal. Maybe the people they bring in have an overall effect on metal that is negative. This is the problem with having bands like Opeth and Slipknot at the forefront of the "metal scene", they represent the things that are wrong with metal and bring people in who are interested in metal for all the wrong reasons. So again, there's no reason to claim anything positive about their popularity, one should continue to condemn mediocrity and praise quality.