Written by [user id=136611] on 21.01.2016 at 01:29

Yeah definitely, nothing wrong with people being only passionate about older stuff, or just familiar stuff. I think people forget that on this site.

Yes, nothing wrong with it. My 'metalhead' friends listen to nothing but the classics and I don't mind, just not for me. However, it is annoying when the old fans claim 'metal' is dying when only their metal is dying.

Written by AngelofDeth on 21.01.2016 at 02:31

However, it is annoying when the old fans claim 'metal' is dying when only their metal is dying.

Yeah true

Written by Spirit of dead on 20.01.2016 at 23:43

Written by M C Vice on 20.01.2016 at 13:17


Could be because the old grandpa bands are still touring recording, so there's no room for new ones to do so. We'll have to wait until the Maidens and Metallicas retire to see if any will take their places.

If the system works, the grandpa bands are useful for giving younger bands exposure as support acts. Better to play in front of 10,000 grandpa metal fans than 100 of your own. As they say, throw enough mud and some will stick.

Yeah, but the point I was making was that the support bands won't become the headliners until there's a vacancy in the however many bands are deemed headliner quality.

Article is partially dead on.

metal is dying a slow death.

people are dropping dead and continuing to do so. furthermore "society" has passed it by, which isn't surprising given metal's largely anti-societal stance. the glory years of the 80s & 90's, and to a lesser extent, the 00's are long gone.

but it's not just a metal problem, it's a music problem in general given the internet overtaking traditional outlets. far easier to be found than ever before, but far less able to make a living, let alone find the $$$ success of older bands.

i honestly don't believe there will ever be another Maiden or Metallica.


metal won't die, though.

it will just drift on in the new information age environment. it will continue to exist, continue to evolve, and continue to be increasingly derivative as well. small clubs and big stationary festivals (i.e. Hellfest, as opposed to touring festivals)...

truthfully it's probably for the best as it won't be an option to make a big living, so it will attract those more concerned with the music and the "art" than the chance of buying sports cars and mansions.





as for oldies, funny to see people dispersing us into two different bins.

i love old music, had seven Elvis disks, can karaoke the fuck out of 80% the song on Frank Sinatra's "Very Good Years", and still think 80's thrash and 88-93 DM is more enjoyable than what's coming out now in those fields. (see also 80's wave smashing modern 'alt-rock'/indie whatever music.)

i also love to check out new music as well.

just because i think certain genres have peaked doesn't limit my ability to enjoy the current.

but it is funny reading thoughts from people who did it all in retrospect rather than a natural development and evolution of time.

Written by BitterCOld on 21.01.2016 at 17:33

BitterCOld's thoughts

The thread should pretty much stop here if you ask me.

Written by M C Vice on 21.01.2016 at 12:07


Yeah, but the point I was making was that the support bands won't become the headliners until there's a vacancy in the however many bands are deemed headliner quality.

There doesn't have to be a vacancy. There just has to be enough fan interest in the band (ie sales, hype etc). Tour promoters are more than happy to have bands do headline gigs once they know that they will confidently fill a venue.

Look at Metallica - supported Ozzy Osbourne in 1986 and then headlined it's own massive tours. Ozzy (or Iron Maiden or Black Sabbath or Motorhead) didn't have to die or retire for that to happen.

Written by BitterCOld on 21.01.2016 at 17:33



-SNIP-

truthfully it's probably for the best as it won't be an option to make a big living, so it will attract those more concerned with the music and the "art" than the chance of buying sports cars and mansions.

Great post overall but I disagree with this one little bit to a degree. Musicians have to eat too and have aspirations of good lives for their families. Being unable to make a decent living might deter some very good musicians from ever taking music up professionally.

People are motivated by more than one thing. Playing music is just one facet of their lives.

Metal in general, regardless of genre, subgenre or no genre is in a state of decline. Everything has pretty much been done and the only thing you see is the same old same old. Very few bands make albums that are worth owning and listening to, old bands or new bands, does not matter. Some bands are trying to change their style and appeal to a different audience, but in general there is not much interest there. Should we be surprised? What do the kids listen today? It sure as fuck is not rock or metal, it is pop, rap or something equally as annoying. Metal did not lose its edge however, the same elements are there, but the interest is lost there. The attention span of an average listener is getting shorter and shorter, which is demonstrated by the pop albums that are going gold or double platinum, opposed to the average "mainstream" metal band that while making money cannot compare. The audience has changed, and the metal scene in general is shit, filled with morons who bicker which genre or band is better or more Kvlt than the other, and on top of it all, the extreme liberalism saturates it, and that is always a retarded bonus.

Metal to be fair was never about being popular and well liked, it was about making a statement and playing your instruments, but in this day and age of technology, stupid kids, brain dead fans and questionable "artists" it is no wonder that shit is the way it is.

So the article has pretty valid points.

I agree with Craig's comments. I feel it will all go on because of the "little guy" mentality. Take the band Rosetta. I actually met them - spent a few good hours together - and learned a lot about what's it like being a small fish in the big sea. Their love of music is their drive. They keep going - not making any money , playing in dumpster fire dives, paying for all their own travel expenses etc. - because "For Love Of The Game". I think bands like these see it as a challenge...challenge accepted. And as long as Bandcamp is still around, metal will flourish...seriously.

Written by Spirit of dead on 21.01.2016 at 23:57

Written by BitterCOld on 21.01.2016 at 17:33



-SNIP-

truthfully it's probably for the best as it won't be an option to make a big living, so it will attract those more concerned with the music and the "art" than the chance of buying sports cars and mansions.

Great post overall but I disagree with this one little bit to a degree. Musicians have to eat too and have aspirations of good lives for their families. Being unable to make a decent living might deter some very good musicians from ever taking music up professionally.

People are motivated by more than one thing. Playing music is just one facet of their lives.

fair dinkum, mate.

funny you clipped the bit about mansions and sports cars, what Dani referenced in the article.

those days are long gone by for metal musicians.

if musicians want to chase material success, metal will simply no longer be the path open to them.

even pop music is suffering thanks to twats who think they deserve free access to everything because having a paper route to fund their album purchases would so suck.


those who want to do it for art will - Enslaved still have jobs when off the road, FFS, and they have hit a certain level of success.

if someone expects to make cashola by making metal, they are fucked. too bad, so sad. to me choosing metal and whining about not making six figures is akin to people spending $50k a semester to go to a liberal arts school studying feminist literature of the pre-Sanskrit era and whining because they can't make ends meet.

know your marketplace.

i type this as someone who pays for albums, even the bandcamp name yer own price ones that start at zero.

it's the way of the internet age. don't blame me for the fall of the RIAA. i just write here.

Written by BitterCOld on 21.01.2016 at 17:33

i honestly don't believe there will ever be another Maiden or Metallica.

metal won't die, though.

Not sure what you mean here - another band named Metallica will soon rise on the scene? Isnt bandnames protected by trademark lawes in capitalism?
If you mean that there wont be another band playing the same music as Metallica - lets hope so as one set of the albums is enough.
If you mean the band Metallica as they where descibed in 1980-2000 media - probably not as that scene stood in relation with tv, radio and big label companys, internet is dictating the world today. The changes in metal probably has more to do with media and economics than anything else.

Media, economics play a part - as does technology.

between the three, you won't get mass exposure, and you won't sell millions of units under the radar to make suits take notice.

I think heavy metal itself is too old and fragmented for any new band to unify the metal masses the same way Iron Maiden or Metallica or Judas Pries did, let alone create the kind of mainstream "non-metal" fan appeal that bands like Metallica had.

Written by [user id=157444] on 22.01.2016 at 12:59

Written by BitterCOld on 21.01.2016 at 17:33

i honestly don't believe there will ever be another Maiden or Metallica.

metal won't die, though.

Not sure what you mean here - another band named Metallica will soon rise on the scene? Isnt bandnames protected by trademark lawes in capitalism?
If you mean that there wont be another band playing the same music as Metallica - lets hope so as one set of the albums is enough.
If you mean the band Metallica as they where descibed in 1980-2000 media - probably not as that scene stood in relation with tv, radio and big label companys, internet is dictating the world today. The changes in metal probably has more to do with media and economics than anything else.

I think he means there will never be another metal band that will be as big as either Iron Maiden or Metallica. Bands that were so big that they became household names and are known by people who have never even listened to metal. Bands that basically define genres and can fill a stadium. Metal will never have any bands like them ever again.

Written by Belegûr on 23.01.2016 at 03:53

Written by [user id=157444] on 22.01.2016 at 12:59

Written by BitterCOld on 21.01.2016 at 17:33

i honestly don't believe there will ever be another Maiden or Metallica.

metal won't die, though.

Not sure what you mean here - another band named Metallica will soon rise on the scene? Isnt bandnames protected by trademark lawes in capitalism?
If you mean that there wont be another band playing the same music as Metallica - lets hope so as one set of the albums is enough.
If you mean the band Metallica as they where descibed in 1980-2000 media - probably not as that scene stood in relation with tv, radio and big label companys, internet is dictating the world today. The changes in metal probably has more to do with media and economics than anything else.

I think he means there will never be another metal band that will be as big as either Iron Maiden or Metallica. Bands that were so big that they became household names and are known by people who have never even listened to metal. Bands that basically define genres and can fill a stadium. Metal will never have any bands like them ever again.

Don't feed the troll ...

Written by AngelofDeth on 23.01.2016 at 11:19

Written by Belegûr on 23.01.2016 at 03:53

Written by [user id=157444] on 22.01.2016 at 12:59

Written by BitterCOld on 21.01.2016 at 17:33

i honestly don't believe there will ever be another Maiden or Metallica.

metal won't die, though.

Not sure what you mean here - another band named Metallica will soon rise on the scene? Isnt bandnames protected by trademark lawes in capitalism?
If you mean that there wont be another band playing the same music as Metallica - lets hope so as one set of the albums is enough.
If you mean the band Metallica as they where descibed in 1980-2000 media - probably not as that scene stood in relation with tv, radio and big label companys, internet is dictating the world today. The changes in metal probably has more to do with media and economics than anything else.

I think he means there will never be another metal band that will be as big as either Iron Maiden or Metallica. Bands that were so big that they became household names and are known by people who have never even listened to metal. Bands that basically define genres and can fill a stadium. Metal will never have any bands like them ever again.

Don't feed the troll ...

I get told not to feed the troll so many times on this site. How many trolls are there???

It's a wonder I even bother posting in the forum at all

Written by Belegûr on 23.01.2016 at 03:53

Written by [user id=157444] on 22.01.2016 at 12:59

Written by BitterCOld on 21.01.2016 at 17:33

i honestly don't believe there will ever be another Maiden or Metallica.

metal won't die, though.

Not sure what you mean here - another band named Metallica will soon rise on the scene? Isnt bandnames protected by trademark lawes in capitalism?
If you mean that there wont be another band playing the same music as Metallica - lets hope so as one set of the albums is enough.
If you mean the band Metallica as they where descibed in 1980-2000 media - probably not as that scene stood in relation with tv, radio and big label companys, internet is dictating the world today. The changes in metal probably has more to do with media and economics than anything else.

I think he means there will never be another metal band that will be as big as either Iron Maiden or Metallica. Bands that were so big that they became household names and are known by people who have never even listened to metal. Bands that basically define genres and can fill a stadium. Metal will never have any bands like them ever again.

As i wrote, that probably has to do with what media dictates our world. Those bands became big when radio and tv was the ruling media. Those are centralized media, internet is not.

The only reason why Metal became popular at any point, is because the media allowed it to happen. Now we have Metal in various forms but it is not in your face 24/7 like the rest of this Pop shit. As much as I disliked the music from the 70's, 80's and parts of the 90's (due to overplay on the radio) that much I liked it, because back in the day at last everyone played an instrument and bands were bands for better or for worse. Today, that is not the case in the age of pre produced rehashed shit and autotune, so now you do not even have to be a Musician to make music, you just need money, some luck or a sponsor and boom you are in. Also, Metal like any other genre of Music was a generational thing. I think and I may be wrong, but we had more Rockers and Metal Heads back then than we do now, and the part of it was a natural transition from the bands their parents listened to which were Pop Rock based to newer rock and Metal. Today there really is no such transition. Last 20-30 years were spent nullifying the effects of playing actual music, and for the good two decades it was nothing but Hip Hop and Pop, and very little this so called "Metal" which was low brow as fuck. So it is not wonder Metal is dying a slow death.

Written by Irritable Ted on 26.01.2016 at 22:01

Depends on the definition of death. If it is death in the mainstream media, then yes its dead. No radio play. No TV exposure. Profile laughed at.

If it is death with mainstream sales. Yes it's dead. No chart entries, not stocked in the high street shops.

Is it dead with the real fans. NO ITS NOT! Metal has always been the rebel. The first thing your parents hated. The thing your trendy friends hated. The thing that was just noise to the elderly (mother in law). That's the point. The thing only you liked. You making your mark on the world. This is me. If you don't like it, I don't care. You against the soulless money grabbing world of Simon Cowell and the like. You against the sheep who only listened to songs because that's what they were told to listen to.

If you want metal to be loved by all. To be on every TV show. Metal musicians to be media stars, then you have missed the point.

I want my metal to be rebellious. I want to be different.

The same can be said about jazz, rock n roll, punk and hip hop. They were rebellious music that "parents hated."

And metal really isn't that rebellious anymore. The death of Lemmy was reported in mainstream media, the current Indonesian PM likes Napalm Death, a member of melodic black metallers, Chthonic just got voted into Taiwan's parliament, Keep of Kalessin tries out for Eurovision and Lordi actually won it. Metal bands regularly crack Billboard 200 and rank high in a number of European countries.

Metal is just part of the music landscape. It stopped being rebellious about 25 years ago with the likes of Metallica, Megadeth, Pantera etc all breaking into the mainstream.


One thing I've noticed at gigs is more and more of the fans are 30+ as opposed to below 25. The fan base is ageing and I don't know if there's as much new blood flowing these days into the genre (or at least going to gigs).

Written by Rasputin on 26.01.2016 at 21:30

The only reason why Metal became popular at any point, is because the media allowed it to happen. Now we have Metal in various forms but it is not in your face 24/7 like the rest of this Pop shit. As much as I disliked the music from the 70's, 80's and parts of the 90's (due to overplay on the radio) that much I liked it, because back in the day at last everyone played an instrument and bands were bands for better or for worse. Today, that is not the case in the age of pre produced rehashed shit and autotune, so now you do not even have to be a Musician to make music, you just need money, some luck or a sponsor and boom you are in. Also, Metal like any other genre of Music was a generational thing. I think and I may be wrong, but we had more Rockers and Metal Heads back then than we do now, and the part of it was a natural transition from the bands their parents listened to which were Pop Rock based to newer rock and Metal. Today there really is no such transition. Last 20-30 years were spent nullifying the effects of playing actual music, and for the good two decades it was nothing but Hip Hop and Pop, and very little this so called "Metal" which was low brow as fuck. So it is not wonder Metal is dying a slow death.

Good point about metal's popularity in 80s/90s being a generational thing. Back when metal started getting true momentum in early 1980s, it was following on from rock n roll, blues rock, hard rock, punk etc. There wasn't any real hip hop or dance music or whatever.

Uh the mid-to-late 70s called to say





the musical competition is hardly the reason why it we'll not have another mega-band.

metal got popular without media helping, in fact they got popular in spite of it... until the media could cash in.

now the environment has changed drastically thanks to the almighty interw3bz. there is no money to be made off bands. 20something years ago DM bands were selling six figures off Earache, Metal Blade and Roadrunner.

Nowadays no one sells six figures.

Agree on the money stuff but it's funny you mention KISS coz their origins were very much hard rock and they worked hard in the underground to get there. Surely ABBA or AOR like Smokey would've been a better example!

Let's also not forget that Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple all did well on the charts back in the early 1970s. In fact they did better than most new bands do today. Then we had punk blow up in late 1970s.

Disco may have dominated but innovative hard rock, heavy metal and punk bands could still smash it out in the mainstream charts despite not much radio support.

I guess you could say innovative heavy music did better on the charts than what it does today. Today it's old metal bands on the charts or new generic stuff. The innovative stuff stays in the underground unlike in the past when it would bubble up into the mainstream.

^ Not everyone thinks it's dead. Read the comments on the first page

"No dance music" begets Disco pic.

the point was Disco was big enough even KISS got involved. it dominated.

metal wasn't huge in the charts at that point, it had been "killed". Sabbath flamed out, Zep likewise. punk wasn't a chart-topper, at least not in the US.

the point is metal survived and evolved despite dominance of another form of music.

by the 80s it was popular enough that media couldn't ignore it. MTV embraced it as it was very visual, ready to go for easy vid content to fill airtime. it got so big it was co-opted and slicked down to sell units via Glam Metal.

Was still big enough Metallica became the biggest band in the world by selling millions even with Glam then Grunge dominating.



the biggest reason it is "dying" (from the mainstream side of things) has fuck all to do with the media avoiding it. it has to do with the fact the money has dried up to the point it will never be financially viable enough to "force" media to give it airplay, let alone try to opt-in to capitalize.

there will never be another Maiden or Metallica selling enough units (making enough $$$) to push it to mainstream consciousness.


people can ret-con it how they like to fit their worldview, me and some of the other long in the tooth folks will just continue to chuckle to ourselves.

I still think metal is too old, too fragmented and too well established to make it big again even if the money was there.

The bits of it that are still evolving (Black and Sludge) are too extreme and too lacking in broad appeal. They don't even necessarily appeal to a lot of metal fans so what chance do they have with your average non-metal fan?

It also doesn't help that hard/alternative rock is even deader. Hard and alternative rock helped keep heavier guitar riff orientated music in the mainstream and acted as a gateway for a lot of metal fans, myself included. It's now quite a big jump going from hip-hop or R&B or indie rock to heavy metal, whereas going from hard/alternative rock to heavy metal was far less of a jump.

Written by BitterCOld on 27.01.2016 at 18:05


the biggest reason it is "dying" (from the mainstream side of things) has fuck all to do with the media avoiding it. it has to do with the fact the money has dried up to the point it will never be financially viable enough to "force" media to give it airplay, let alone try to opt-in to capitalize.

there will never be another Maiden or Metallica selling enough units (making enough $$$) to push it to mainstream consciousness.


people can ret-con it how they like to fit their worldview, me and some of the other long in the tooth folks will just continue to chuckle to ourselves.

I wonder how many of the people saying it's dying and lamenting a lack of new music are the same ones who refuse to pay for music?

Written by BitterCOld on 27.01.2016 at 18:05

the biggest reason it is "dying" (from the mainstream side of things) has fuck all to do with the media avoiding it. it has to do with the fact the money has dried up to the point it will never be financially viable enough to "force" media to give it airplay, let alone try to opt-in to capitalize.

there will never be another Maiden or Metallica selling enough units (making enough $$$) to push it to mainstream consciousness.

people can ret-con it how they like to fit their worldview, me and some of the other long in the tooth folks will just continue to chuckle to ourselves.

Lol, you're ret-conning it all the same... This isn't a discussion where anyone is right or wrong but more about exploring possibilities as to what's going on in the scene and what could happen in the future. Who knows, we may all be wrong and metal will hit the mainstream again shortly, maybe not, it's impossible to say for sure either way.

You bring up bands will never sell enough units to get as big as Maiden/Metallica. But that implies an underlying issue, why aren't bands selling enough units? You're right in saying that media will pay attention when demand is high enough, I agree there, but that leads us to the problem of why is demand down at the moment?

See M C Vice's prior post.

Demand isn't down.

Willingness to pay for it is (aside from Marcel and the vinyl tribe) ...

Written by BitterCOld on 28.01.2016 at 20:12

Demand isn't down.

That's a hard one to quantify especially now that record sales have ceased to be a reliable indicator due to illegal downloading. So we don't know if demand is increasing, decreasing or staying the same.

Written by Karlabos on 20.01.2016 at 13:41

I wonder what will the old time 'heavy metal' fans will do after all the 80s bands stop working, will they just keep listening to the old records over and over again? Will they stop listening to metal and begin following mainstream media music? Will they finally give up on the 80s and acknowledge the existence of modern metal?

Now, that's an interesting point.

Lots and lots of people are stuck in the 80's. Not only in relation to music but with many many things. For example, a guy organized some kind of tour here recently. It was called 80's something (I don't remember the name exactly and it was in French). People dressed like they did in the 80's, with the haircut, spraynet and all. They listened only to 80's music, watched 80's shows, etc, etc.

I find this kind of thing sad and pathetic. Get over it people: the 80's are over! It's even totally ridiculous at times because some people who worship the 80's weren't even born back then. Some people call this kind of attitude nostalgia. I call it refusing change and failure to live with your time.

People have a idyllic, distorted and false vision of the 80's. I was there and I can tell you that life wasn't any better than it is now. Things sucked as much as they suck today. I never longed for and I will never long for that time.

And for a metalhead living here in a small area, things sucked much more in the 80's. I mean, now all I have to do is to turn on my computer and I can find and order all the music I want. In the 80's, it was a pain in the ass to look for new stuff.

I think those who think that Metal is dying are those people who can't look past the old bands and traditional Heavy Metal. You know, those annoying people who think that only old Metal is good and everything since the 90's sucks. If they think like that, it's their own problem. All the old bands will soon be gone. If they can't realize that there is still new awesome albums to listen to, then they only have to listen to their old records or stop listening to Metal, I couldn't care less. Again, it's their problem.

Metal changed with time. It evolved and branched. Some people never accepted it. Sometimes you can see them polluting forums with their bitterness and elitism (the thought that only old Metal is good and true).

Yes, Metal as it was in the 80's is dying. There was good stuff back then but let's face it: there was also lots of mediocrity. I think overall Metal is much better nowadays. I will never regret the 80's.

Metal as a whole is not dying. It is changing. For the best, if you ask me.
And, like the original poster said, extreme Metal is in no way affected by what happens to the old bands, since it's a different kind of music than traditional Heavy Metal.

About 'Big Bands". There will probably never be bands as big as some of the old ones. The reason is simple. They became so big more because of circumstances than actual talent. Let me explain. Some have lots of talent for sure. However, many bands today are more talented than old bands but they will never achieve the same popularity. Why? Because the old bands came at the right place, at the right time.
In other terms, old bands became big not because they were better than today's bands, but because things were different back then.
Do you really think a band releasing an album like "The Number Of The Beast" or "Kill' Em All" would have a big impact on the scene today? No, surely not. Because that was a point in history and we are now past that point.