Written by SilentScream on 01.12.2012 at 22:25
So I take it you are a vegetarian?

A very good point. It irks me no end when pro-lifers go on about how "sacred" life is, but think nothing of animals being tortured and killed for man's greed. I see vivisection and factory farming as far more abhorrent than abortion is. I'm definitely pro-choice, and also don't see abortion as "murder". I am generally against late abortions though, unless of course it's for the sake of saving the mother's life.

The late, great Chuck Schuldiner once said this about abortion:

"It should be legal. If I was a woman surely I would like to have a choice whether to have a child or not. In the U.S. a lot of new-borns are killed because they were unwanted. It is better to solve it immediately when a woman finds out about the pregnancy and she doesn't want a child. Better to go for an abortion than to kill a baby. That is terrible. Men cannot force women to keep a child when they themselves feel they can't."

I think it's really awesome that he tries to see the issue from a woman's perspective, which most men certainly don't do when forming an opinion on the issue.

Written by Angelic Storm on 06.12.2012 at 10:11

Written by SilentScream on 01.12.2012 at 22:25
So I take it you are a vegetarian?

A very good point. It irks me no end when pro-lifers go on about how "sacred" life is, but think nothing of animals being tortured and killed for man's greed. I see vivisection and factory farming as far more abhorrent than abortion is. I'm definitely pro-choice, and also don't see abortion as "murder". I am generally against late abortions though, unless of course it's for the sake of saving the mother's life.

The late, great Chuck Schuldiner once said this about abortion:

"It should be legal. If I was a woman surely I would like to have a choice whether to have a child or not. In the U.S. a lot of new-borns are killed because they were unwanted. It is better to solve it immediately when a woman finds out about the pregnancy and she doesn't want a child. Better to go for an abortion than to kill a baby. That is terrible. Men cannot force women to keep a child when they themselves feel they can't."

I think it's really awesome that he tries to see the issue from a woman's perspective, which most men certainly don't do when forming an opinion on the issue.

I'm a vegetarian and still 100% pro-choice. "Killing" an embryo that barely feels anything is much more humane than letting an animal live a life of torture just because someone thinks it tastes good.

In any case, I believe abortion is the woman's choice. Whenever people ask me if the man should have any say, I always answer "Yea, if he's the one giving birth to it" (which some would argue is the case with pregnant transsexuals). Lately prolifers have really been pissing me off since I know a sad example of someone who's let prolife propoganda ruin her life. I know someone who's a single parent with 2 kids from different fathers (neither of whom pay child support) who got kicked out of her parents' house and is now pregnant with her 3rd kid. Not only is she unable to afford that many children, her health is at risk to the point that she might die if she gives birth. Yet she still refuses to have an abortion because it's "wrong"... It's still her choice, but someone would have to be pretty misinformed to go through with a pregnancy that could kill them just because they're convinced that abortion (or in her case, probably birth control in general) is so wrong.

I honestly don't understand how being vegetarian and being pro-life would even be connected. To me they are different topics.

Written by Angelic Storm on 06.12.2012 at 10:11

A very good point. It irks me no end when pro-lifers go on about how "sacred" life is, but think nothing of animals being tortured and killed for man's greed.

Also... I think my man George Carlin (rip) is necessary for this thread:



Special mention goes to 7:56 where he discuss the so called "sanctity of life" but the whole video nails the issue.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 09.12.2012 at 00:21

I honestly don't understand how being vegetarian and being pro-life would even be connected. To me they are different topics.

I suggest you read FourMechALYX 's post for reference to what we are talking about.

Written by SilentScream on 13.12.2012 at 23:25
I suggest you read FourMechALYX 's post for reference to what we are talking about.

I read it, which makes no difference to what I previously wrote. To me they are different topics and by that I mean it doesn't sound wrong to me if someone is vegetarian/pro-choice...or nonvegetarian/pro-life.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 13.12.2012 at 23:29

Written by SilentScream on 13.12.2012 at 23:25
I suggest you read FourMechALYX 's post for reference to what we are talking about.

I read it, which makes no difference to what I previously wrote. To me they are different topics and by that I mean it doesn't sound wrong to me if someone is vegetarian/pro-choice...or nonvegetarian/pro-life.

To me neither, but she talks of the ''sanctity of life'', that human's ''should not kill''. Thus our comments....

Written by SilentScream on 01.12.2012 at 22:25

So I take it you are a vegetarian?

Sorry I took so long to reply, I'ts a long boring story why I couldn't get on. Yes, I am a vegetarian. I agree that it would be really hypocritical of me if I said that and I weren't.

I'm anti-abortion, but I'm not in favor of banning it, in many situations it's necessary and it's not my body. I just think it should be controlled to prevent it being used for eugenics, and shouldn't be taken casually.

Written by Ganondox on 25.06.2014 at 19:00

I just think it should be controlled to prevent it being used for eugenics, and shouldn't be taken casually.

An abortion is a pretty serious and costly procedure (at least $300). It isn't always covered by insurance and it does have both physical and emotional side effects, so I don't think anyone who does their research or experiences it for themselves would take it casually or see it as a first resort. As a victim of the North American Catholic education system, I wish they would just give people facts on abortion and birth control rather than using scare tactics and shock factor. And they should stop using the argument of "some people abuse it and use it too much, so it shouldn't be allowed for anyone".

Honestly deadone I have no problem with anything you're saying but that future will just never happen.

Sounds like a mix of Gattaca and Aeon Flux though, so that's cool.

Written by deadone on 03.07.2014 at 02:37

So traumatic my wife and I are sticking with 1 kid instead of more. The pregnancy wasn't much fun either.

It'd be fair better if and both mum and dad could have a glass of champagne as the little bundle of joy comes out of some sort of bag with tubes in it instead of 9-ish months of increasing unpleasantness and then 20+ hours of screaming, agony, vomit and not knowing whether everything is alright.

Well, some other people might say it was a beautiful experience (obviously I don't know, but heard it more than once from relatives/friends ). But all pregnancies don't go smoothly for sure...



But on topic, for me abortion depends.

With difficult medical conditions such as severe malformation, danger for the mother and/or child, etc... well, why not. In case of rape, yeah, that too.

For other cases, I know there is no scientific consensus of what moment can we consider a foetus a "real" human being (debate around it all the time)... but when I see 9, 10, 11 or even more week old foetus being aborted coz the parents were simply careless to use protection, I can't help to feel very uncomfortable.

Written by [user id=27368] on 02.07.2014 at 17:42

Written by Ganondox on 25.06.2014 at 19:00

I just think it should be controlled to prevent it being used for eugenics, and shouldn't be taken casually.

An abortion is a pretty serious and costly procedure (at least $300). It isn't always covered by insurance and it does have both physical and emotional side effects, so I don't think anyone who does their research or experiences it for themselves would take it casually or see it as a first resort. As a victim of the North American Catholic education system, I wish they would just give people facts on abortion and birth control rather than using scare tactics and shock factor. And they should stop using the argument of "some people abuse it and use it too much, so it shouldn't be allowed for anyone".

No, I haven't really done any research, because it's not an issue I care much about, I think American politics are too focused and polarized on minor social issues over things which actually matter. I'm pretty okay with the way things are, just as long as Republicans stop killing abortion technicains and molesting women trying to get abortions, and abortions aren't pushed forward as ideal solutions to any broader social issues.

Written by deadone on 03.07.2014 at 02:37

Written by Ganondox on 25.06.2014 at 19:00



I'm anti-abortion, but I'm not in favor of banning it, in many situations it's necessary and it's not my body. I just think it should be controlled to prevent it being used for eugenics, and shouldn't be taken casually.

I'm all for eugenics but certainly not for using abortion to support eugenics programs.

The ideal would be to be able to program defective genes out of the human DNA code. No more hereditary conditions (including potentially terminal cancer and heart conditions) or hereditary birth defects ala Down Syndrome.

I also support licences for parenthood but not for eugenics but more to stop people with substance abuse issues or psychological/personality traits that may lead to abuse. Bare in mind most states have licences for parenthood when it comes to adoption.


Ideal, ideal world would be genetically engineered humans born in artificial wombs with parents who have passed some sort of minimal criteria..

I'm against any negative eugenics, genetic diversity is a good thing, and we are in no posistion to decide what traits are undesirable or not. A gene associated with heart attacks may have some unforseen benefits, for one. As for DS, I'm not sure how you plan on weeding it out genetically due to the way it works, though that may help people with DS who desire to have children, but I'm against aborting DS babies. As for parental licenses, there are huge ethical problems with that (and it's not going to stop psychopaths from breeding), but it would be best to keep children away from substence abusers, at least until they've recovered. It's a huge problem.

Written by deadone on 03.07.2014 at 04:34

Written by Ganondox on 03.07.2014 at 04:22

and abortions aren't pushed forward as ideal solutions to any broader social issues.

God invented B-52s loaded up with tactical nukes and napalm specifically for dealing with broader social issues.

'Murrica!!! TASTE OUR FREEDOM!!

I used to be against abortions, but now i see: regularly i read news about dead (or alive) newborns found in garbage cans, or infants beated to death by their parents-alcoholics. and the most frightening thing: in our country live more orphans than were after world war II. so, i made up conclusion.

Written by deadone on 04.07.2014 at 02:30
Really makes me think parenthood licences are the way to go.

Definitely. People who are not fit to be parents should be prevented from having children. The horrific examples of child abuse just mentioned highlights a point that I made earlier in the thread that some children/babies really would have been much better off not being born at all, than being born into a life of hell. I find it quite sick, that pro-lifers seem to care so much about foetuses, but then seem to give no regard at all to the potential infant's quality of life once it exits the womb. Makes me wonder whether the term "pro-life" should actually apply to these people at all...

Written by deadone on 04.07.2014 at 08:46
Totally agree 100%.

Quality of life is important. I remember an extremely physically disabled kid in France suing his parents for not aborting him as they knew he would be disabled.

Similar arguments exist for euthanasia.

In the end is life worth living if it's constant misery, pain and suffering without respite and without hope?

Quality of life is very important. And that is a point which is all to often neglected in debates about abortion. And yes, that also applies to debates about euthanasia.

And my answer to your question, is absolutely not. If you're getting no enjoyment out of life, then what's the point in living at all? None, in my opinion.

Written by deadone on 04.07.2014 at 02:30

Written by Leni on 03.07.2014 at 12:43

I used to be against abortions, but now i see: regularly i read news about dead (or alive) newborns found in garbage cans, or infants beated to death by their parents-alcoholics. and the most frightening thing: in our country live more orphans than were after world war II. so, i made up conclusion.

People that do awful such things to babies and children need to be dismembered piece by piece.

My wife works for the courts and has seen some terrible cases of child abuse including babies with broken bones that are nearly as old as the baby (basically parents were breaking the kid's bones from day 1). There are some cases she won't even tell me about as they're so gruesome.


Really makes me think parenthood licences are the way to go.

They also need to get rid of all the baby bonus cash payments which the scum liked so much cause they could afford plasma tvs, mobile phones etc.

doesmt your wife violate some laws and oats as cort worker when she is telling you those stories ?

Written by Angelic Storm on 04.07.2014 at 08:29

Written by deadone on 04.07.2014 at 02:30
Really makes me think parenthood licences are the way to go.

Definitely. People who are not fit to be parents should be prevented from having children. The horrific examples of child abuse just mentioned highlights a point that I made earlier in the thread that some children/babies really would have been much better off not being born at all, than being born into a life of hell. I find it quite sick, that pro-lifers seem to care so much about foetuses, but then seem to give no regard at all to the potential infant's quality of life once it exits the womb. Makes me wonder whether the term "pro-life" should actually apply to these people at all...

I once told when we do driuving test before get license, we fail, we cant drive (well soem retards do it anyway, but then its job for ''old bill''
we should have those test before we have a children ,,,, whats the problem

Quote:

Quote:

Quality of life is very important. And that is a point which is all to often neglected in debates about abortion. And yes, that also applies to debates about euthanasia.

And my answer to your question, is absolutely not. If you're getting no enjoyment out of life, then what's the point in living at all? None, in my opinion.

You Win! Flawless Victory! Fatality!



Filicide should be a finishing move in Mortal Kombat. A babality followed by a fatality; talk about cutting-edge and pushing the button.

Well, that's debatable and a matter of perspective.

Written by Angelic Storm on 06.12.2012 at 10:11

If I was a woman surely I would like to have a choice whether to have a child or not.

We do have a choice, it's called contraception. If you don't want a child, use it with confidence. If it fails you it's one thing, but if you don't use it, I don't think you have the right to complain about an unwanted pregnancy.

On the other hand, if you're irresponsible enough to not use contraception if you don't want a child, then I'd argue it would be wise to be handed a child to your care... In the end it's a matter of sexual education, both women and men should be taught from young ages about these things and encouraged to use abortion only as a last last last resort.

Written by [user id=27368] on 02.07.2014 at 17:42

An abortion is a pretty serious and costly procedure (at least $300). It isn't always covered by insurance and it does have both physical and emotional side effects, so I don't think anyone who does their research or experiences it for themselves would take it casually or see it as a first resort.

Actually, in my country it's one of the most used contraceptive methods and a woman has an average of three abortions during her life. I'd dare say it's used waaaay too freely and it's also a result of the lack of proper sexual education.

I don't think abortion should be banned or illegal, I think there are situations where one is necessary (especially when health or psychological issues are involved), but I think it's something that should be avoided as much as possible. Any sort of killing or torment of any live creature (human, fetus or even animal) should be avoided as much as possible and should not be treated lightly, and that stands even more when talking about a creature you brought to life, from your own biological material.