Indeed, one of the many similarities between the mainstream pop scene and metal scene is the sexual imagery attached to success. (I believe there's a topic about this somewhere, possibly created by deadone if memory serves.) Just look at all the female-fronted gothic metal bands or your typical female musician - usually on the skinnier side, well-endowed, caked in makeup, and donning various types of revealing clothing.

I'm not saying women don't have the right to look that way. But something tells me it's less about the quality of the music at that point and more about the image of the women involved with said music.

I mean when your vocalist does a nude photo shoot to boost publicity... it says a lot about what your band is really selling.

Written by [user id=136611] on 26.06.2014 at 21:24

So...fat chicks in the metal scene must feel shit when the look up to chicks in metal bands, as it seems chicks only get into metal bands by being super hot.

Angela Gossow hot? The one in Madder Mortem? The ones in SubRosa? In After Forever?

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.06.2014 at 21:51

Written by [user id=136611] on 26.06.2014 at 21:24

So...fat chicks in the metal scene must feel shit when the look up to chicks in metal bands, as it seems chicks only get into metal bands by being super hot.

Angela Gossow hot? The one in Madder Mortem? The ones in SubRosa? In After Forever?

of course not every single metal band in the world..

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.06.2014 at 21:51

Angela Gossow hot? The one in Madder Mortem? The ones in SubRosa? In After Forever?

But most of the times they pick super hot chicks for their bands, these four you mentioned were founders of their bands themselves I think, they weren't just a member.

There are plenty of people who think the women Marcel mentioned are hot. Attraction is a little more subjective but you can still make the case that the majority of these women in metal bands are hyper-sexualized.

Written by angel. on 26.06.2014 at 22:23

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.06.2014 at 21:51

Angela Gossow hot? The one in Madder Mortem? The ones in SubRosa? In After Forever?

But most of the times they pick super hot chicks for their bands, these four you mentioned were founders of their bands themselves I think, they weren't just a member.

Angela Gossow joined Arch Enemy after the third album. Dunno about the Madder Mortem girl the others were indeed founders.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 26.06.2014 at 21:40

I mean when your vocalist does a nude photo shoot to boost publicity... it says a lot about what your band is really selling.

i can"t understand people who listen to something because of the look of the band

if you want something nice to look at there are people specialized at that
and if you want something nice to listen to there are people specialized at that

so why listen to crap just because the people that made it look a certain way?

Written by theFIST on 26.06.2014 at 23:58

i can"t understand people who listen to something because of the look of the band

if you want something nice to look at there are people specialized at that
and if you want something nice to listen to there are people specialized at that

so why listen to crap just because the people that made it look a certain way?

That's not his point. The point is that is used as a publicity to reach new markets and new listeners. Because everyone knows that if you see a thumbnail about a new band releasing an album depicting a half-naked hot-ass mama, you have a gazillion more chances to click on it. It works the same way for videos, album covers, and everything. It's a fact, nudity and hawtness catches the eye and the beholder's curiosity. I didn't think something like that had to be explained.

Written by Ilham on 27.06.2014 at 00:08

That's not his point. The point is that is used as a publicity to reach new markets and new listeners. Because everyone knows that if you see a thumbnail about a new band releasing an album depicting a half-naked hot-ass mama, you have a gazillion more chances to click on it. It works the same way for videos, album covers, and everything. It's a fact, nudity and hawtness catches the eye and the beholder's curiosity. I didn't think something like that had to be explained.

I got your point Ilham, but for some bands that doesn't even work either, like Butcher Babies, Huntress and some other ones... their music is not good at all no matter what kind of image they're trying to market with.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.06.2014 at 22:46

Angela Gossow joined Arch Enemy after the third album. Dunno about the Madder Mortem girl the others were indeed founders.

yes but now she's known as one of the main managers of the band,and also Madder Mortem's lady(Agnete) was always their vocalist from the first day that they formed this band.

Written by angel. on 27.06.2014 at 11:01

I got your point Ilham, but for some bands that doesn't even work either, like Butcher Babies, Huntress and some other ones... their music is not good at all no matter what kind of image they're trying to market with.

Sure, but the simple fact that you know about them and tried their music proves the point. The quality has nothing to do with marketing, you can market shit as well as gold exactly the same way.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 26.06.2014 at 22:36

There are plenty of people who think the women Marcel mentioned are hot. Attraction is a little more subjective but you can still make the case that the majority of these women in metal bands are hyper-sexualized.

Exactly. I've seen lots of guys saying that they find Angela to be hot. And yep, I think the majority of women in metal bands are hyper-sexualised.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 26.06.2014 at 21:40

Indeed, one of the many similarities between the mainstream pop scene and metal scene is the sexual imagery attached to success. (I believe there's a topic about this somewhere, possibly created by deadone if memory serves.) Just look at all the female-fronted gothic metal bands or your typical female musician - usually on the skinnier side, well-endowed, caked in makeup, and donning various types of revealing clothing.

I'm not saying women don't have the right to look that way. But something tells me it's less about the quality of the music at that point and more about the image of the women involved with said music.

I mean when your vocalist does a nude photo shoot to boost publicity... it says a lot about what your band is really selling.

Most the bands with female vocalists are actually pretty good, the problem isn't so much that the music isn't being sold, but that the music can only be sold if the singer is hot, for the most part. It's hurting women in the metal scene if they don't look the part for one reason or another.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.06.2014 at 21:51

Angela Gossow hot?

of course she is ...

Written by Troy Killjoy on 26.06.2014 at 21:40

Indeed, one of the many similarities between the mainstream pop scene and metal scene is the sexual imagery attached to success. (I believe there's a topic about this somewhere, possibly created by deadone if memory serves.) Just look at all the female-fronted gothic metal bands or your typical female musician - usually on the skinnier side, well-endowed, caked in makeup, and donning various types of revealing clothing.

I'm not saying women don't have the right to look that way. But something tells me it's less about the quality of the music at that point and more about the image of the women involved with said music.

I mean when your vocalist does a nude photo shoot to boost publicity... it says a lot about what your band is really selling.

Totally agree. I generally dislike the fact that you get a chick in the band, just to get some cleavage in your band photo shoots.

It's also one of the reasons I respect women like Laura (kylesa), Mlny Parsonz and the Subrosa ladies a lot more. I like the fact that they don't harp on them being women and just play music.

Talking about image, this is quite important for a lot of the bigger labels. They do take band image very seriously, so if the band looks great in pictures, but the music isn't great, they'll still sign them, coz they know they can sell them. I don't really see this as a negative thing as labels aren't really providing charity. They're trying to run a business as well.

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 27.06.2014 at 15:44

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.06.2014 at 21:51

Angela Gossow hot?

of course she is ...

if you're into she-males

It seems most of us are saying the same thing, but I would like to point out that I was clearly generalizing when talking about the marketing of women in metal bands - or in any band for that matter. While there are plenty of labels that tend to highlight bands with the hyper-sexualized frontwoman, there are bands that include female members (some of which are made up completely of females) that are judged more for their music than the appearance of the musicians. Since we're discussing Angela Gossow - it can be argued that she was used as a marketing gimmick as the band members (as in, the founders and songwriters) tend to be pushed to the background more so than your average musicians being overshadowed by the vocalist simply because she has boobs. And it's not like she was one of those barbie doll singers typically found in the gothic metal scene, either. But she's fit, she's blonde, and despite what Marcel will try to convince you of, generally considered a very attractive woman. The Amott brothers know this, which is why they replaced her with Alissa White-Gluz - seemingly better known for her blue hair and photo shoots than her work as a vocalist.



That said, in a genre where women are still a minority and more or less underrepresented, people (reviewers, fans, bystanders) still feel the need to point out when a band has any female members and that tends to get more focus during discussions about the music than the music itself. I find a lot of metalheads are (sometimes inadvertently) sexist in this regard unfortunately, but at least some people here seem to understand the nature of the business.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 27.06.2014 at 16:22

It seems most of us are saying the same thing, but I would like to point out that I was clearly generalizing when talking about the marketing of women in metal bands - or in any band for that matter. While there are plenty of labels that tend to highlight bands with the hyper-sexualized frontwoman, there are bands that include female members (some of which are made up completely of females) that are judged more for their music than the appearance of the musicians. Since we're discussing Angela Gossow - it can be argued that she was used as a marketing gimmick as the band members (as in, the founders and songwriters) tend to be pushed to the background more so than your average musicians being overshadowed by the vocalist simply because she has boobs. And it's not like she was one of those barbie doll singers typically found in the gothic metal scene, either. But she's fit, she's blonde, and despite what Marcel will try to convince you of, generally considered a very attractive woman. The Amott brothers know this, which is why they replaced her with Alissa White-Gluz - seemingly better known for her blue hair and photo shoots than her work as a vocalist.



That said, in a genre where women are still a minority and more or less underrepresented, people (reviewers, fans, bystanders) still feel the need to point out when a band has any female members and that tends to get more focus during discussions about the music than the music itself. I find a lot of metalheads are (sometimes inadvertently) sexist in this regard unfortunately, but at least some people here seem to understand the nature of the business.

I heard that Angela hand picked Alissa, being their manager and all, not the Amott brothers. Anyway, while I do consider her to be hotter than Angela, she's the favorite female vocalist of a friend of mine, and she's a heteroromantic girl, so I don't think her attractiveness is her only asset. Which leads to the paradox that if you aren't hot and dressing seductively no one will pay attention to you, but if you are hot then everyone says you're only popular because of your looks regardless of your actual talent, it's a no-win situation.

Written by Ganondox on 27.06.2014 at 16:37
I heard that Angela hand picked Alissa, being their manager and all, not the Amott brothers. Anyway, while I do consider her to be hotter than Angela, she's the favorite female vocalist of a friend of mine, and she's a heteroromantic girl, so I don't think her attractiveness is her only asset.

So replace what I said about the Amott brothers with Gossow - either way, they capitalized on the popularity of an attractive female vocalist to further increase the band's relevance since by all accounts they were considered to be going downhill. Angela manages the band and obviously wants to ensure Arch Enemy is as profitable as possible for all involved, and what better way to do it then to hire someone like Alissa?

Of course this is all a matter of speculation, but it's hard not to put the pieces together without getting the same puzzle over and over. It comes down to sex and the marketing of it. Your friend may think of her as the best vocalist in the history of vocalists but that doesn't change the fact that she has clearly been given extra attention from the media simply because of her appearance.

Maria Brink is another prime example of this. Here's some semi-NSFW shots to "promote the band" she's in: http://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Maria-Brink-Butt.jpg http://i2.listal.com/image/1546850/600full-in-this-moment.jpg

Written by Troy Killjoy on 27.06.2014 at 16:46

Written by Ganondox on 27.06.2014 at 16:37
I heard that Angela hand picked Alissa, being their manager and all, not the Amott brothers. Anyway, while I do consider her to be hotter than Angela, she's the favorite female vocalist of a friend of mine, and she's a heteroromantic girl, so I don't think her attractiveness is her only asset.

So replace what I said about the Amott brothers with Gossow - either way, they capitalized on the popularity of an attractive female vocalist to further increase the band's relevance since by all accounts they were considered to be going downhill. Angela manages the band and obviously wants to ensure Arch Enemy is as profitable as possible for all involved, and what better way to do it then to hire someone like Alissa?

Of course this is all a matter of speculation, but it's hard not to put the pieces together without getting the same puzzle over and over. It comes down to sex and the marketing of it. Your friend may think of her as the best vocalist in the history of vocalists but that doesn't change the fact that she has clearly been given extra attention from the media simply because of her appearance.

Maria Brink is another prime example of this. Here's some semi-NSFW shots to "promote the band" she's in: http://www.metalsucks.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Maria-Brink-Butt.jpg http://i2.listal.com/image/1546850/600full-in-this-moment.jpg

I can't stand Maria Brink's vocals, they remind me too much of Ke$ha and shitty nu metal singers. Meanwhile, I actually think Alissa is pretty good singer. The Agonist is also actually a pretty unique band in terms of harmonic composition, and makes for some pretty good melodeath/metalcore. Her being attractive and sexualized and all probably helped the band get more successful than it would be otherwise, but focusing on that just discredits the band when they legitimately something.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.06.2014 at 16:01

if you're into she-males

im not!...maybe...none of your business still like her though....

Troy you totally said all that must have been said in the best way and you pointed out very important aspects of the female vocalists like Alissa and other ones, thanks a lot.

Troy definitely hit the nail on the head with his last couple of posts in this thread. All the points he made were spot on.

Coincidentally the pic I posted of Alissa is also used in an article more or less preaching the same things I posted earlier. Quite a good read for anyone interested in the feminist side of the metal scene: http://mastersofmetal.org/?p=1539

Sorry, it was a bit late, but I just saw this comment and had to say something...

Written by Ragana on 05.08.2010 at 15:47

I don't consider Portugal to be in the Mediterranean...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mediterranean_countries

I like how Troy is unimpressed by the compliments .

Nice read.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 28.06.2014 at 01:45

Coincidentally the pic I posted of Alissa is also used in an article more or less preaching the same things I posted earlier. Quite a good read for anyone interested in the feminist side of the metal scene: http://mastersofmetal.org/?p=1539

Excellent article, but that's what I was saying.

Written by Ganondox on 28.06.2014 at 08:19
Excellent article, but that's what I was saying.

I don't think at any point we disagreed on the topic at hand, we were just approaching it from a slightly different angle.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 28.06.2014 at 08:27

Written by Ganondox on 28.06.2014 at 08:19
Excellent article, but that's what I was saying.

I don't think at any point we disagreed on the topic at hand, we were just approaching it from a slightly different angle.

Oh, haha, guess I just slightly misinterpreted what you were saying.

My good friend Bryan wrote that article just recently, I am glad to see it's gotten spread around so much. He more or less nails it on the fucking head, there were incidents on another forum of discussion which left us (me and some other MoM guys) with a terrible aftertaste. That articles addresses it perfectly

Written by LascaillesShroud on 28.06.2014 at 09:17
My good friend Bryan wrote that article just recently, I am glad to see it's gotten spread around so much. He more or less nails it on the fucking head, there were incidents on another forum of discussion which left us (me and some other MoM guys) with a terrible aftertaste. That articles addresses it perfectly

After I posted that link to Alissa's photo shoot a staff member here shared your article on his Facebook page and mentioned something about a friend of yours writing it. Small world. Hopefully more people spread it around because it really does highlight all the key points of sexism and related issues in the metal scene faced by women for reasons typically beyond their control. Yet for some reason a lot of fans don't seem to think it's an issue in need of being discussed.

I have faith though. If metalheads can be accepting of Rob Halford's sexual preferences, Dee Snider's cross-dressing habits, and Manowar's, uh, Manowar, then we should be able to work towards being a more female-friendly culture, one that promotes the music based on the talent of the women involved but also one that doesn't judge said women for their appearances - "good" or "bad".