Religion: Double Standards
Original post
Posted by APOHAKC, 08.04.2008 - 15:49
Now to the point, in every day life I see a lot things and contradictories that are pissing me off, whole idea for a thread came when I saw Dutch movie Fitna, you probably already heard about it, it is about Islam, scenarist was accused for hate speech while movie is called racist?! (since when religion and race are connected) and hateful. In the movie, they put strong anti-muslim accent, doesn't matter does I support or not whole concept of the movie, to sum it up, man that made a movie was literally impaled in the media because of the whole project.
Also, we have a bunch of movies that never ever got permission to be shown on tv about anti-judaism, (and please do not invert my words, anti-judaism and anti-semitism is not one the same), they were immediately shown as racist and hateful in the media, not rarely people were even imprisoned for making them.
Now, we have a bunch of anti-Christian movies on tv, that no one never ever bash as racist, that are shown daily on tv, no one ever question religious correctness of those movies, truth, mostly Christian by birth made those movies, but again, as someone declare himself as an anti-Christian what difference does it makes?
Question is, WHY is it ok to bash on Christianity and it is NOT ok to bash on any other religion and immediately it is characterized as hateful speech?
Examples in music, Ukrainian band Nokturnal Mortum had both anti-judaistic and anti-Christian lyrics, no one ever question anti-Christian part cause that's ok, but everyone bitch about anti-judaism?! What's with that?
80% of you are openly anti-Christian, and bash on Christianity on this forum and real life most probably, same as some metalstormers I know, once, I said to one member in real life damn they want to build stupid mosque in the middle of the town and he looked at me like that I said Gods knows what and told me don't be a racist (again?!), but never ever he said anything to me when I dozens of times said that Cathedral in the center of the town should be burned? (yeah, a little of trve metal behavior..)
Once on this forum member said to other member stop with you judaistic crap, I remember that very well, post was deleted and he got warned for racism again, but I also saw DOZENS of time members saying similar things like stop your Christian crap to other members and no one ever got warned for that.
Why is it ok to bitch about Christianity and it is blasphemy to bitch about all other organized religions (especially Islam and Judaism)?!?
Looks like a double standard to me...
| APOHAKC The Bard Posts: 3585  |
 that was not my post, that was a quote 
---- They say that we are gone but I can't let you down The heathen faith will rise again we won't fail now I know we cannot die forever is our time Give my people back to me free from Christianity!!!!
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| Aei Ontos Account deleted |
Aei Ontos
Account deleted Written by Angelique on 22.06.2008 at 22:14 I'm sorry;)
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| Dagorwen Posts: 291  |
Of course there are double standards in our modern society and I find it absolutely unbearable. The reason is perhaps the mix that is currently done between religion and culture: christianity appears as the religion of a culture that used to rule a large part of the world, but it's also a religion that bears the germ of self contradiction, as judaism for instance: those religious education give an important role to criticism, besides, the western christianity has a strong tradition of dolorism, repentance in a "punish-yourself" way  . So The problem is that a large part of the western society is "haunted" by this repentance which is curently mixed with the repentance of being the "colonisator" the "dominator" etc... so most "educated" people deny their culture or are ashamed of some parts of it that became politically incorrect: crusades, colonisation...Thus there is no christian, or even european solidarity, the western culture is as ashamed of itself. The other religions and culture are not, so they defend themselves much better than us. There is also a peacefull tradition in christianity, you just accept and endure the insults, you don't rebel. "Forgive them Lord, yhey don't know what they are doing", Islam has a warrior tradition (Mahomet was a warrior) and for the Jews, you just can't say anything since the Shoa or you're considered as a nazi, they turned their suffering into ideologic weapon. So I think the problem lays in the christian ethic. Even in the crusades, we didn't strike first but our lands were invaded (Spain) or the pilgrims massacred (in the Holy Land).
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| APOHAKC The Bard Posts: 3585 |
Best post ever 
---- They say that we are gone but I can't let you down The heathen faith will rise again we won't fail now I know we cannot die forever is our time Give my people back to me free from Christianity!!!!
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| TOUGHEST MEMBER Posts: 3626  |
The question for the thread topic: why bashing Christianity is accepted but other is not ? Easily to answer. The evolution of the Christianity religion has become saturated. What I mean is about the devoutness of Christianity has been saturated. Christianity is religion of Western culture. But to see more about Western culture, IMO it has been developed as more freedom far beyond the ethic, norms, or standard criterions of the religion and in this case is Christianity. I would like to take evidences to prove my statement, you can see that Christianity bans abortion but nowadays abortion is very common. But to be more exact I would say that Pornography is a very true example to say why Christianity has been saturated. Christianity also ban porn but nowadays porn is vey popular. Monica Belluci has make a half nude photo in a magazine with pregnant. And that triggered a press war between Vatican and that magazine. To say more about the Christianity bashing, they still blaspheme it, bash it, but people accept that such things, because of freedom of speech, or so on... I have a lecturer who is German US, when she taught us history, she also bash christianity but a low level, that "there is no 100% good, or 100% bad so no one go to hell or heaven". From that I would say that religion in this case Christianity has become in saturation. People follow it that as a casual process. Maybe they dont believe it but still join in, for non reason. That lecturer who I mentioned basing Christianity in a low level, still make her sons to follow Protestant and Catholic...so even she dont believe in Christianity, she still let her sons join it, thats prove the joining religion is that a casual process. So Christianity has become saturated in all levels. The movie Da Vinci Code, also is a example of basing Christianity. But here the outcome we can take is that bashing Christianity is a common thing, and accepted. But thats only for Christianity. Other religion such as Buddhism or Islam has evolve differently. Muslim or Buddhist still have different norms and ethic than in Christianity, and I cant conlude that the culture of Islamic country or Buddhist countries in Asia are underdevelop or not but, to one word, these religion still not become saturated. And last words, I would say that I think only metalheads can make a question like that because in metal, there are tons of bands bashing Christianity.
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| Dagorwen Posts: 291 |
Written by APOHAKC on 24.06.2008 at 15:55 thanks (sory for not going further in discussion, the last post is very interesting, but I'm SO low because of my exam failure, I don't have two neurones valid!)
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| Dane Train Beers & Kilts Elite Posts: 8902  |
Written by TOUGHEST MEMBER on 24.06.2008 at 18:35 I just wanted to correct you on a few notions that you have factually wrong. First is that "Christianity" is not against abortion. Many Christians may be against it, but there are many Christians who support it as well. Another aspect is Christianity being a Western religion. There are actually more non-European language speaking Christians and European speaking Christians. Now you did bring up an interesting point about "joining" Christianity. A Christian is someone who is born again and thus follows Christ. Meaning they are born of the Spirit. There are so many people who claim to be Christians but are neither born again nor follow Christ. It is kind of like saying you're a Metalhead and wear a bunch of band t-shirts but never listen to the music.
---- (space for rent)
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| Number Juan Posts: 226  |
The main reason for it is simply because Christianity is the most numerous religion in the world. It contains the most followers, which in turn, causes it to have the most critics and the most defectors as well. Another reason is because Christianity is a world religion unlike Islam or Judaism in the sense that Christianity is not associated with any particular ethnic/cultural groups the way Islam (Arabs/Middle Easterns) or Judaism (Jews, Orthodox Jews, etc) are.
---- A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. - Bertrand Russell
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| TOUGHEST MEMBER Posts: 3626 |
Written by Dane Train on 25.06.2008 at 00:33 Well, I heard that Pope always verbalised that against and encourge people not to abort. I think you are wrong to say that Christianity are not against abortion. You also said that "Many Christian maybe against it", also there are many Christians are not. I just was talking in general level, Christianity truely is agaisnt abortion and suicide. The Western Christianity, I was referring it as the religion for the whole Europe and maybe non Europe, such as Eastern Russia or Eastern Europe. I mean the Jesus religion of Europe: Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, etc... Am I wrong to use the word "Christianity" to refer suming up of those religion.? The last part of your post is not neccessary or important so I dont response...
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| Black Winter Posts: 536  |
Written by Number Juan on 25.06.2008 at 02:44 Arabs constitute only 20% of the world's muslims,the biggest number of muslims are in south east Asia.
---- Once the people decides to live, destiny will definetly obey.. T u n i s i a F r e e !
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| Dane Train Beers & Kilts Elite Posts: 8902 |
Written by TOUGHEST MEMBER on 25.06.2008 at 12:34 What you heard may be true that the Pope encourages people not to have abortions, but the Pope does not speak for every Christian. The Pope is only the head of the Roman Catholic church. He does not speak for the 3/4 of Christians out there. Written by TOUGHEST MEMBER on 25.06.2008 at 12:34 Um...Isn't that what I said?  There are many Christians who appose abortion just as there are many Christians who support it, likewise there are those who are indifferent to the situation.Written by TOUGHEST MEMBER on 25.06.2008 at 12:34 Not wrong, but not right either. That is only a fraction of the whole of Christianity. But Christianity is much larger in "third world" nations than it is in Europe. Also, Faith in Jesus Christ has exploded like Pentecost in China over the past decade. So you were not necessarily wrong, just not informed enough. Written by TOUGHEST MEMBER on 25.06.2008 at 12:34 Actually it is important, because once we actually factor that issue into the equation, the number of those who call themselves Christians greatly reduces. Written by Black Winter on 25.06.2008 at 12:58 As well as in Africa, right?
---- (space for rent)
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| TOUGHEST MEMBER Posts: 3626 |
@Dane Train: I think there's a small difference in our viewpoint of abortion for Christianity. IMO you view and judge the problem for as whole all Chiristians, but as for me I view and judge it as for the whole organization or insitution that regulate it. Firstable, is that Pope the highest positional person in Catholic for global Catholic religion? (of course not all Christianity, thanks for correcting me), so if the Pope's or maybe Vatican opinion are against abortion, why it cannot be the attitude of whole Catholic religion? At least, my point I collect is that Catholic is against abortion. But to be wider, does other Christianiy religion such as Protestant, or Othordox have the opinion against abortion? Problem is if the leaders like Pope in Catholic case, also have attitute toward against abortion, then maybe Christianity is exactly against abortion. But my opinion is based on the thing that is, I take the case of Catholic as example: if Pope is the highest in Catholic so the Catholic people must agree and follow him, so they must be against abortion, but of course thats in theory, maybe they dont follow even they are Catholic followers, but then in procedures, or criterion Catholic is against abortion. I take an other example, if the leaders, such as presidents, prime ministers, are the leaders of a country, so of course his attitude and opinion for global of course can represent for that country in international. If other religion of Christianity, also is against abortion, then I think my statement is right. Problem is that you judge as for whole Christianity, but if so I think there's not any religion which reach the highest level of its criterion which is what I judge based on. Not all muslim no drinking or gampling, not all Christians against the abortion but if you view and judge it for the criterion, ethic of the religion Christianity, then the answer is more general.
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| Black Winter Posts: 536 |
Written by Dane Train on 25.06.2008 at 17:55 yes,but north african countries are arab too.
---- Once the people decides to live, destiny will definetly obey.. T u n i s i a F r e e !
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| Valentin B Iconoclast Posts: 10094  |
Written by Dagorwen on 23.06.2008 at 14:28 that is wrong. pilgrims didn't have the best conditions in the days between the byzantine emperor Justinian and 1099(after 1300 there weren't as many pilgrims or those that went there weren't systematically persecuted), but still they were NOT slaughtered. they actually were so few(they call it the Dark Ages for a reason) that they would have been almost ignored. the bad things started to happen with the arrival of the First Crusade and the real carnage that occured that day. i mean, you might like this lol, in the Temple of Solomon so many people were killed that the soldiers were in blood up to their ankles! also there are later stories and journals of crusaders who were driven mad by hunger and cannibalized people and other shocking events. so the real shit hit the fan with the first crusaders .
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| Freezer Posts: 203  |
Fact is that Europe, fortunately, doesn't "mean" Christianity anymore. In the last 2-3 centuries we have been struggling to leave all that superstition behind and the foundation of nowadays Europe is not religion. Moreover, it is a principle which doesn't pick one religion among the others. Because we are not CREATED equal, we ARE equal As I said in a previous post, the problem is not the fact that Christianity is "attacked", we MUST have the right to criticize every absolutist way of thinking. The same, obviously, goes for Islam and so on
---- We fly through this godless endeavor, we try to explain the black forever
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| APOHAKC The Bard Posts: 3585 |
Maybe Europe is not Christianity anymore, but it is turning into Islam what is equally bad, if not even worst since, AT least Christianity has been since ever. It is not like it will be religion-free or something.
---- They say that we are gone but I can't let you down The heathen faith will rise again we won't fail now I know we cannot die forever is our time Give my people back to me free from Christianity!!!!
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| Marcel Hubregtse Grumpy Old Fuck Elite Posts: 40071  |
Written by Black Winter on 25.06.2008 at 19:57 The country with highest number of muslims in the worlkd is Indonesia. And that number is way higher than the number of muslims in North Africa.
---- Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.) 05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996 
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| APOHAKC The Bard Posts: 3585 |
These are some statistics for these three religion groups, although, they are usually VERY inaccurate, since not 60% of the Russian Christians gives a shit about Christianity or Jews about Judaism.. Muslims http://www.islamicpopulation.com/world_general.html Christians http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_christian.html Jewish http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html
---- They say that we are gone but I can't let you down The heathen faith will rise again we won't fail now I know we cannot die forever is our time Give my people back to me free from Christianity!!!!
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| Freezer Posts: 203 |
Written by APOHAKC on 26.06.2008 at 15:23 I hope it will indeed, I'd rather not fight for Christianity, nor for Islam. I prefer trying to get rid of the both of them
---- We fly through this godless endeavor, we try to explain the black forever
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| Dane Train Beers & Kilts Elite Posts: 8902 |
Written by Freezer on 27.06.2008 at 13:26 Like the Nazis and Soviets did?
---- (space for rent)
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| Aei Ontos Account deleted |
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| Aei Ontos Account deleted |
Aei Ontos
Account deleted Written by TOUGHEST MEMBER on 25.06.2008 at 18:23 Christianity is against abortion if the bible is against abortion. The bible speaks about killing people, but not about killing children in particular. The discussion is for 99% based on the question whether a unborn child is already a human (which I personaly indeed think) or not. As you see, the pope thinks the same as I do that a unborn child is already a human. But the pope thinks that seeds are already human also  .I agree with Dane that it is a matter of personal opinion as the bible is not as clear as we might have wanted it to be.
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| TOUGHEST MEMBER Posts: 3626 |
I agree with that point. The bible is ambiguous about the abortion. But I heard "to follow God, or something like that, we never kill human", or in other words, no suicide or killing unborn child becaue God give them the live, if suice or killing unborn child that means you do reversely or deny which God bless to.
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| Dane Train Beers & Kilts Elite Posts: 8902 |
Written by [user id=30512] on 27.06.2008 at 14:58 I was making an ironic statement as related to this thread's topic. I guess it didn't come across that way, sorry.
---- (space for rent)
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| Freezer Posts: 203 |
Written by Dane Train on 27.06.2008 at 14:13 XD nice joke, fact is that I clearly stated in a previous post that every absolutist way of thinking, including nationalism, communism or whatever, is dangerous. The only difference between them is that politics, at least, tries to work for THIS world, and basing on real things. Oh, I despise dictatorships, theocracies and regimes, just to make everything clear
---- We fly through this godless endeavor, we try to explain the black forever
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| APOHAKC The Bard Posts: 3585 |
I'd rather not put nationalism in that basket, communism and nationalism are very different things anyway, while communism is an ideology most of the western countries use without even knowing nationalism is state of feelings, I am a nationalist and what is bad with that? Many people confuse nationalism and national chauvinism anyway, I don't feel like having such discussion over and over again though
---- They say that we are gone but I can't let you down The heathen faith will rise again we won't fail now I know we cannot die forever is our time Give my people back to me free from Christianity!!!!
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| Varegan Hamranakara Posts: 912  |
I really wonder when i see European anti-Christians,because there is no force to being a Christian in your countries, you all can be a free atheist, nobody wont strangle you for your blasphemous thoughts and beliefs, there is no orthodoxy polices in your streets!!! there is no force for Religion in your colleges, but you still bash on it, look like its just some kind of "Havin Fun" but i haven't seen any band with truly Anti_Islamic lyrics, seems like they are all afraid of Anti-Islamic subject!! because its not like "havin fun together", its a real war, Muslim extremists can be found everywhere and they are all ready to suicide bombing and cutting blasphemer's head off! its order of their religion, (I'm not sure... maybe they just don't want to be racist.) but as a very novice musician, I'm so afraid forming a Anti-Islamic band in future, I don't like to die with a shovel in my headless body's asshole can someone recommend me a Anti-Islamic band, maybe all of what i told was because of my ignorance
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| Sunioj Posts: 3894  |
Written by Varegan on 28.06.2008 at 03:29 Damaar, lebanese black metal. Their demo is quite ok, but they now live in Australia. It seems that its quite common for anti religious bands in religious countries to move away due to ostracization or fear. Just like Melechesh.
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| APOHAKC The Bard Posts: 3585 |
Written by Varegan on 28.06.2008 at 03:29 Yeah, I get your points mate, but for example there are very few Muslims here, and community is weak and not that Orthodox but they are still afraid to disagree with their fews even though no one will cut their head with a shovel as you said, I understand your points and I don't encourage you to bash if you'll end up in unmarked grave, but what about Christian people, if I say Islam or Judaism is bad my friends will say you racist, if I say Christianity is bad they'll say YEAH MAN! That bothers me. I am not Christian, I hate all religion equally. Kid from my sisters school was expelled for saying that Diary of Ane Frank is boring book, that was one of the reasons why I created this thread anyway.
---- They say that we are gone but I can't let you down The heathen faith will rise again we won't fail now I know we cannot die forever is our time Give my people back to me free from Christianity!!!!
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| Dagorwen Posts: 291 |
Written by APOHAKC on 28.06.2008 at 15:11 they were right, the Diary of Anne Francke is one of the most boring books ever! I was just unable to finish it! for the Dark Age: you can't just call 1000 years "dark ages", if you see some gothic statues, some religious poetry, read Hildegard von Bingen, all the romans and epics, you can't call it dark! It wasn't a more cruel time than today, it's just because we come from favorised lands and families taht we believe our world is softer than in the middle age 1000 years! Of course, there were violent times, but also peacefull ones. For the crusades, I always learnt the pilgrims were slaughtered and the womens raped by the muslims, they even destroyed the Holy Sepulture. It wasn't the official army but bands of thieves, pirates etc... so some knights had to protect the pilgrim... (and of course it turned wrong, but at least thjey were proud of what they were, of there culture, their religion...) today it's the "Gay pride" in Paris, we should perhaps make a "christian" or "western pride" to (just a joke, for it would surely turn kkk like)and for me you cant' undersatn Europe without it's christian culture! It should even be written in the european texts
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