Written by Slayer666 on 13.12.2011 at 22:26
Out of curiosity, which albums were those?

Insomnium's Above the Weeping World and Green Carnation's Light of Day, Day of Darkness.

I know, I love Burzum and early Darkthrone and Katatonia and so many other bands you'd think, you really don't think that's a 10? But they're all 9s to me based on these two albums.

Written by BitterCOld on 13.12.2011 at 19:53

In regards to our system vs. youtube, ours is immensely better, even if flawed.

at the very least you are able to look at who voted what for what... V above me and I have very different tastes, so if we vote on the same album the average score won't be great. seeing one of use endorse it while the other dislikes it should be a good picture.

truth be told, i really don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut what most people here think of albums or how they rate them (aside from enjoying nuking the 10's or 1's crowd votes) ... i am far more concerned with the opinions of peoples whose tastes are similar to my own.

i think its best if Metalstorm could add a .5 to every rating after 5 as in 6 - 6.5 - 7 - 7.5...etc
this way it would much more accurate and we'd see a lot less 10's. (at least thats what i think xP)

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 22:37
Ever seen a dude with a side fringe and a metalcore shirt or a similar stereotype and thought, "oh boy, what a douche".

I judge people for falling into stereotypes because they obviously want to fit into a scene. Strength in numbers.

But I don't judge them for their taste in music. That's just stupid. If you wanna listen to all the radio pop and dance music, go for it. If you like country - my least favorite genre of all - go for it.

Written by *!* on 13.12.2011 at 22:44
this way it would much more accurate and we'd see a lot less 10's. (at least thats what i think xP)

I do agree with this to be honest. Sometimes I feel bad giving a 9 to an album that's on the same plain as another 9, because really it's a 9.5, but I can't give it a 10 because it's not fair to my 10s.

I'm sure most people just round up in that situation.

The perfect system (theoretically) would be to type in any decimal point (1.0, 1.1 and above until 10.0). Too detailed and I don't know exactly how it'd be coded though.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 22:42

Insomnium's Above the Weeping World and Green Carnation's Light of Day, Day of Darkness.

I know, I love Burzum and early Darkthrone and Katatonia and so many other bands you'd think, you really don't think that's a 10? But they're all 9s to me based on these two albums.

Green Carnation!!!! *.*


My favorite metal band doesn't have a ten from me yet, so maybe we're more similar than it meets the eye with the ratings. And in answer to the other post, come ON, you must have thought "this person has no taste in music" based on WHATEVER THING at least sometime in your life. If you claim you didn't, you're probably not being 100% honest to yourself.

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 22:48
...at least sometime in your life...

Oh sure, when I was Vezzy's age and I thought I was cool because I listened to rap and everyone else was gay for listening to pop, and when I first got into black metal a year later I thought I was so trve and kvlt. Then I grew up.

I should have said "I no longer judge people for their musical taste because I'm no longer an immature ignorant fuckwad".

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 22:50

Oh sure, when I was Vezzy's age and I thought I was cool because I listened to rap and everyone else was gay for listening to pop, and when I first got into black metal a year later I thought I was so trve and kvlt. Then I grew up.

I should have said "I no longer judge people for their musical taste because I'm no longer an immature ignorant fuckwad".

I kinda meant judge taste and not people, but people with side fringes are douches simply because they can't expect for them to look good with it ever, so I thought, sure, why the hell not, say that

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 22:54
...I kinda meant judge taste and not people...

Ya I don't think I've judged someone for their taste (at least not seriously, I've probably trolled a few people on this site into thinking I hate them personally for listening to power metal or something) in like... 5 years?

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 22:58

Ya I don't think I've judged someone for their taste (at least not seriously, I've probably trolled a few people on this site into thinking I hate them personally for listening to power metal or something) in like... 5 years?

Well no one seriously has, or at least I hope so. I've personally met a shitload of awesome people who wouldn't know good music if it shot them in the face. Hell, some fanatic movie goers could by that logic refuse to talk to me because I almost never watch anything, and if I do, it's only to make a good company to others and I don't give a fuck if it's shit.

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 22:37

I edited my post, so you can see what I meant more clearly.

And still you fail to understand what I meant. xD

Sure, those 3 albums are 10's (perfect), for me only. And in fact, I am extremely isolated in this opinion, specially on MS.
But I still firmly believe that 5, maybe 6 albums is the upper limit to the amount of albums one can like so much to consider them perfect. Anything more than that is, like Troy said, either the person being way too easy to please or simply not knowing how the differentiate the "ZOMFG SO BRILLIANT" from "as close to perfect as it can be".

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 22:42

Insomnium's Above the Weeping World and Green Carnation's Light of Day, Day of Darkness.

Sounds like a recommendation.

Nope, I don't fail. Because, get this:

Written by Slayer666 on 13.12.2011 at 23:07

But I still firmly believe that 5, maybe 6 albums is the upper limit to the amount of albums one can like so much to consider them perfect.

And I, and other people believe otherwise. Just because the topic of discussion is "perfection", and you go with a definition of perfection, that doesn't mean that aren't other ways at defining perfection, just like there are numerous ways of defining "good". Just because "perfection" is the ultimate level of sorts, that doesn't mean there should be a general consensus of what is perfection.

I might be a bit abstract here, but the point is that there isn't any "truth", in the conventional meaning of the world, on what is perfection, and that its definition is bendable, though not by a big extent.

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 23:13

I might be a bit abstract here, but the point is that there isn't any "truth", in the conventional meaning of the world, on what is perfection, and that its definition is bendable, though not by a big extent.

Ah, then that's our problem. I always though "perfect" had a very well defined meaning, which is, to put is bluntly "flawless, impossible to do better".
Can a person really put more than 5-6 albums into such a category (or at least, it's closest equivalent)? Not in mah book, that's just stretching the definition of "perfect" too far, IMO.

Technically perfection is unattainable. But subjectively we look at something like art and rate it.

You two are both right but you're still arguing.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 23:28
You two are both right but you're still arguing.

Yeah, kinda because I'm weird around words (which I DO see as little people, mind you) and I don't like when opinions of certain word meanings are set in stone... I'm trying to persuade him that arguing over "perfect" is equally as rational as arguing over "good"

Edit: And I like to argue with smart people so much that, when I obtain the opportunity, I suck out the living essence of it. Maybe I need therapy...?

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 23:32
"perfect" is equally as rational as arguing over "good"

Arguing over opinions will get you nowhere.

Although, by definition, perfect = flawless, as he said.

It just doesn't necessarily apply to musical tastes since art can't really be critiqued objectively, despite what critics try to make people think.

I mean, you can objectively say "this line is not straight", but you can't objectively say "this crooked line makes this bad", because some people might think the crooked line makes the drawing better.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.12.2011 at 23:34

Arguing over opinions will get you nowhere.

Troy, quick, this scores you 10 points for your Hogwarts house of choice: What do people on this (and other) forums usually do?


And not arguing over what albums are perfect, but what "perfect" is

And we search for truth...

I agree with MoraWintersoul mostly, I believe that you should not set values to how many "perfect" albums you think there should be, but judge the album on how it makes you feel. And if many albums make you feel many times like you love the music, then be thankful that you love music so much.

To Troykilljoy:

It sounds like you rate your albums by the ones you have heard so far. I rate my albums by how much I enjoy it at the time, and if I really fuckin enjoy it to the point where I appreciate the "perfection" the artists took their time to create, I'm going to give it a 10.

...music is fun.

I would give Wintersun's album a 10 but I know Jari could of spent a few more hours perfecting a track to make it a little bit better.

Written by Milena on 13.12.2011 at 23:32

I'm trying to persuade him that arguing over "perfect" is equally as rational as arguing over "good"

But there is a difference...
Ok, I'm probably boring every living thing in a 50 mile radius now, but I'll be quick.

Arguing over good is pointless, yes. There is no definite truth, no one can possibly sit down and make a definitive list of what is good and what isn't.
But "perfect" implies it's the ultimate degree of "good". Depending on if I like, say, Metalcore, I can call that genre either good or bad, and there will be good and bad albums. However, perfect Metalcore albums are the select handful, the ones so good that they cannot be improved upon, basically the person's absolute favorites. As soon as there is more than a few of those, they are no longer special, and thus not perfect anymore.

I'm kinda tired, so I doubt I managed to properly get my point across. But whatever, maybe I'll re-type the whole thing tomorrow.

Written by Slayer666 on 13.12.2011 at 23:55

But there is a difference...
Ok, I'm probably boring every living thing in a 50 mile radius now, but I'll be quick.

Arguing over good is pointless, yes. There is no definite truth, no one can possibly sit down and make a definitive list of what is good and what isn't.
But "perfect" implies it's the ultimate degree of "good". Depending on if I like, say, Metalcore, I can call that genre either good or bad, and there will be good and bad albums. However, perfect Metalcore albums are the select handful, the ones so good that they cannot be improved upon, basically the person's absolute favorites. As soon as there is more than a few of those, they are no longer special, and thus not perfect anymore.

I'm kinda tired, so I doubt I managed to properly get my point across. But whatever, maybe I'll re-type the whole thing tomorrow.

Nah, you don't have to, since I didn't really mean that. I meant that people's standards of perfect can be, not completely but in similar fashion, vary as much as people's standards of what is good. And that arguing over the meaning of THOSE WORDS is equally acceptable.
Hell, I'd probably yawn through those Cradle Of Filth albums and you'd find no appeal in Sieges Even whatsoever, so I didn't mean that.

Written by jadawal on 13.12.2011 at 23:45
It sounds like you rate your albums by the ones you have heard so far.

Well ya, I'm not gonna rate albums I haven't heard. :/

That's called vote abuse. Which is why this thread exists in the first place.

Haha, I mean you sort of hold a slot for "perfect 10" albums. When you hear another that's better than the original, would that album then become the 10 and the former 10 become a 9?

Written by jadawal on 14.12.2011 at 00:15
Haha, I mean you sort of hold a slot for "perfect 10" albums. When you hear another that's better than the original, would that album then become the 10 and the former 10 become a 9?

Not necessarily. I mean, Be'lakor's Stone's Reach was a 10 for me at one point, but it didn't have the same draw as my other 10s, so I dropped it to a 9. This year I almost gave Woods of Desolation's Torn Beyond Reason a 10 - but again, compared to my other 10s, I didn't feel like it stacked up.

Now if I come across another album that I think compares to my 10s, I'll have no problem scoring it accordingly. In fact, some of the 9s I doled out could be bumped at a later time. For instance, Edge of Sanity's Crimson, Bolt Thrower's Those Once Loyal, Katatonia's Brave Murder Day - but these are more like 9.5s for me.

Which brings up the .5 vote suggestion again.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.12.2011 at 00:20

Not necessarily. I mean, Be'lakor's Stone's Reach was a 10 for me at one point, but it didn't have the same draw as my other 10s, so I dropped it to a 9. This year I almost gave Woods of Desolation's Torn Beyond Reason a 10 - but again, compared to my other 10s, I didn't feel like it stacked up.

Now if I come across another album that I think compares to my 10s, I'll have no problem scoring it accordingly. In fact, some of the 9s I doled out could be bumped at a later time. For instance, Edge of Sanity's Crimson, Bolt Thrower's Those Once Loyal, Katatonia's Brave Murder Day - but these are more like 9.5s for me.

Which brings up the .5 vote suggestion again.

If you think about it, having a choice to vote 9.5 would probably close to half the amount of 10s.

I switch my votes after time also, as my feeling towards them change over time. But if I had to compare them to every other release I would have to do a lot of editing once a new and "better" album was released, which to me, makes no sense. But that's how the system works I guess: all the different kinds of people unite around the world to assign a numerical value to albums to create a mean value for the sole purpose (maybe) of letting other people know if the album is "good" or not.

The .5 suggestion is awesome, it would solve a lot of my worries about uneven eights and whether I'll drop something to a seven or up it to a nine. 9.5's would also be awesome to have, my tens are mostly just tens but if I could have that extra .5, my nines would be in so much better order. But compared to the number of people that would actually use it seriously, how complicated is to code it?

I have to confess that my album votes are pretty shitty. I am a lot more inclined to vote or review an album that I really like or dislike than something that I find just "meh". But even with that being said I still disagree with about 90% of my votes, hence why I stopped voting a while back.

I guess I just dislike rating systems all together. I rarely pay attention to them anyway, even a bad review (and the comments) tells a lot more anyway