Written by Dane Train on 24.05.2007 at 21:32

Written by Hyvaarin on 24.05.2007 at 14:57

I've not studied it as extensively as you, but I am studying music subcultures/subcultural theory at university, so I'd say I know what I'm talking about (ie. it's not just "yeah man, metal rules, of course it's a subculture!").

Where are you studying, if you don't mind me asking. 'Cause I'd love to bounce ideas off of each other about Metal and culture.

The course I'm doing is "Music Subcultures and the Media", which relates subcultural/scene/neotribe/whatever theory to a few music subcultures, and examines how the influence of New Media affects these issues. Idea bouncing would be bitchin', I'll definitely try to make time for it. I've also gotta write some stuff about a subculture/scene/whatever of my choice (black metal), so once I get some of that stuff done I'll post it here .

Written by Hyvaarin on 25.05.2007 at 07:38

Written by Dane Train on 24.05.2007 at 21:32

Written by Hyvaarin on 24.05.2007 at 14:57

I've not studied it as extensively as you, but I am studying music subcultures/subcultural theory at university, so I'd say I know what I'm talking about (ie. it's not just "yeah man, metal rules, of course it's a subculture!").

Where are you studying, if you don't mind me asking. 'Cause I'd love to bounce ideas off of each other about Metal and culture.

The course I'm doing is "Music Subcultures and the Media", which relates subcultural/scene/neotribe/whatever theory to a few music subcultures, and examines how the influence of New Media affects these issues. Idea bouncing would be bitchin', I'll definitely try to make time for it. I've also gotta write some stuff about a subculture/scene/whatever of my choice (black metal), so once I get some of that stuff done I'll post it here .

Since you are studying Music Subcultures And The Media be sure to check out Dr Keith Kahn Harris - ''From Subculture to Scene': Investigating Extreme Metal'
Keith Kahn Harris is a metal fan and sociologist.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2007 at 10:21

Since you are studying Music Subcultures And The Media be sure to check out Dr Keith Kahn Harris - ''From Subculture to Scene': Investigating Extreme Metal'
Keith Kahn Harris is a metal fan and sociologist.

Words can not express the gratitude I'm feeling right now, Marcel .

Written by Hyvaarin on 25.05.2007 at 11:42

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2007 at 10:21

Since you are studying Music Subcultures And The Media be sure to check out Dr Keith Kahn Harris - ''From Subculture to Scene': Investigating Extreme Metal'
Keith Kahn Harris is a metal fan and sociologist.

Words can not express the gratitude I'm feeling right now, Marcel .

I have the book and it is a very interesting , though hard for me as non-sociologist, read. He also wrote for Terrorizer mag for a couple of years.

Written by Hyvaarin on 25.05.2007 at 11:42

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 25.05.2007 at 10:21

Since you are studying Music Subcultures And The Media be sure to check out Dr Keith Kahn Harris - ''From Subculture to Scene': Investigating Extreme Metal'
Keith Kahn Harris is a metal fan and sociologist.

Words can not express the gratitude I'm feeling right now, Marcel .

Oh yeah and he is mainly focusing on the death metal and black metal subcultures and how scenes function.

Sounds excellent. I had another book of his (with "mediocrity" in the title, I think) recommended to me by my lecturer the other day. Will check both books out as soon as I can .

Written by Hyvaarin on 25.05.2007 at 11:49

Sounds excellent. I had another book of his (with "mediocrity" in the title, I think) recommended to me by my lecturer the other day. Will check both books out as soon as I can .

If you go to his website there's a full bibliogrpahy of his there, be sure to check it out I think there will be loads of other interesting stuff there for you.

Long thread here and I'm too lazy to read through all the posts but I have asome thoughts to share. I definately see metal subculture(similar clothing, some shared common opnions, places where metalheads hang ouy etc. etc.), what I've been thinking is it s music subculture anymore or has it ever been, the reason I ask this that a person who "looks and acts metal" might not be a real fan music instead just being a part of a subculture just for the sake of it. And the most influential people in the music might not be a part of the community at all. So wouldn't it be reasonable to treat the admireres of the music and the people belonging to the metal subculture as separate movements(ofcourse many many people belong to both but not all I'm sure).

Well, I picked the second option, because to me metal, as well as music in general is more than "Just Music." It's a way of life.

If you see metal as a music and nothing more,you just become a metal listener.If you live in metal world you become a metalhead.That's the point for me.

Written by darksun on 26.05.2007 at 20:32

If you see metal as a music and nothing more,you just become a metal listener.If you live in metal world you become a metalhead.That's the point for me.

Wow, I never thought of it that way before but what a great way to sum it up.

I don't really see how metal becomes a way of life (please enlighten me). Metal gives you no code to follow and sets no limits. Still people can be as different as fire and water and still be tied together by metal, so yes, there probably is something about "metal" being some sort of a sub-culture.

@Dr.Rock:thanks dude I am glad i could find some more people for my way
@SirIronMaidenKim I don't think a person who listens to R&B or commercial pop can have ideas like us.Metal helps people -at least me- to have different ideas different attitudes towards things.To keep that soul one should live in a metalic way

Written by darksun on 30.05.2007 at 23:13

@SirIronMaidenKim I don't think a person who listens to R&B or commercial pop can have ideas like us.Metal helps people -at least me- to have different ideas different attitudes towards things.To keep that soul one should live in a metalic way

/rolls eyes.

Not this nonsense again.

How the hell do you know how other forms of music effect other people?

You don't.

Period.

I don't think a Britney Spears fan is interested in wars,violence or politics as much as me.Or i never think that any of them can dare to question life,religion or god.I have several acquaintances around me who are perfectly suited my explanation.

Written by darksun on 31.05.2007 at 00:21

I don't think a Britney Spears fan is interested in wars,violence or politics as much as me.Or i never think that any of them can dare to question life,religion or god.I have several acquaintances around me who are perfectly suited my explanation.

That's the most narrow-minded comment I've seen for a long while.

Written by BitterCOld on 30.05.2007 at 23:58

Written by darksun on 30.05.2007 at 23:13

@SirIronMaidenKim I don't think a person who listens to R&B or commercial pop can have ideas like us.Metal helps people -at least me- to have different ideas different attitudes towards things.To keep that soul one should live in a metalic way

/rolls eyes.

Not this nonsense again.

How the hell do you know how other forms of music effect other people?

You don't.

Period.

Amen. For me metal has given only......music, and that's all. Simple as that, metalheads aren't smarter and better than the rest, they just like to think they(we?) are....

Written by [user id=20369] on 31.05.2007 at 00:34

Written by darksun on 31.05.2007 at 00:21

I don't think a Britney Spears fan is interested in wars,violence or politics as much as me.Or i never think that any of them can dare to question life,religion or god.I have several acquaintances around me who are perfectly suited my explanation.

That's the most narrow-minded comment I've seen for a long while.

yes may be too much narrow-minded i mention about what i have experienced for several times.I just say metal is more than music for me and i am happy in that way.Expectations will always be there i am talking about a general thought.

Metal is definitely More than just music, its the proud feeling you get when u walk into a gig knowing that everyone there is into metal and proud to be so.

Just listen to Manowar's "Die for metal" and you will understand.

Written by darksun on 31.05.2007 at 00:21

I don't think a Britney Spears fan is interested in wars,violence or politics as much as me.Or i never think that any of them can dare to question life,religion or god.I have several acquaintances around me who are perfectly suited my explanation.

Sorry to say this but that is just a plain stupid thing to say. Many of (most of actually) my friends do not listen to or like metal but different pop/emo bands and they're still intelligent people interested in politics and the like...of course people who listen to Britney Spears can care about the subjects you mention...to suggest otherwise is just narrow-minded. If people that listen to pop/emo didn't care...well the world would be a very different place.

He does kind of have a point - unlike lots of other music, metal is implicitly oppositional (and therefore more likely to changes people's ideas, etc.). To suggest that it's the only genre that does this/only metal fans are interested in politics/war/religion/whatever is a bit wrong, though.

Written by Hyvaarin on 02.06.2007 at 16:08

He does kind of have a point - unlike lots of other music, metal is implicitly oppositional (and therefore more likely to changes people's ideas, etc.). To suggest that it's the only genre that does this/only metal fans are interested in politics/war/religion/whatever is a bit wrong, though.

Thank you very much.That was the point i wanted to tell

I think Metal is a culture. If you really like Metal, you will come to do the whole dress/long hair thing.

Again, for how Metal leads us to question religion/politics/wars/other serious matters, I think this happens because some metal bands promote this type of thinking, by producing sounds that are darker, and inspire us to think more about these things. All in all, I think that metal is meant to be more serious music, you usually don't hear metal that sings about pointless things, usually there is a meaning behind them, From Blind Guardian's Lyrics about more epic things to System of a Down, which directly confronts ideas of war and other things. Not much of it is about trivial things like a boyfriend/girlfriend relation, or a basketball game, or even a gang war. Most of it is about more violent, more serious issues, things like Genocide, evil religions, war, etc...

Written by Piro on 03.06.2007 at 02:16

I think Metal is a culture. If you really like Metal, you will come to do the whole dress/long hair thing.

Again, for how Metal leads us to question religion/politics/wars/other serious matters, I think this happens because some metal bands promote this type of thinking, by producing sounds that are darker, and inspire us to think more about these things. All in all, I think that metal is meant to be more serious music, you usually don't hear metal that sings about pointless things, usually there is a meaning behind them, From Blind Guardian's Lyrics about more epic things to System of a Down, which directly confronts ideas of war and other things. Not much of it is about trivial things like a boyfriend/girlfriend relation, or a basketball game, or even a gang war. Most of it is about more violent, more serious issues, things like Genocide, evil religions, war, etc...

there are quite a lot of contradictions in this post..

First of all, metal doesn't make someone dress into metal. It is a choice made by an individual, simply because some metalheads rather don't dress metal.

I think writing lyrics about boyfriend/girlfriend is deeper than writing about genocide, or is that just me?

Metal not about pointless things? what about the lyrics of those so-called Norsecore bands, death metal and the lyrics of quite a few black metal bands?

Concerning the previous posts: there is "good lyrics and good metal" and there is "bad lyrics and bad metal". Just like in any music genre. Lol

Written by darksun on 30.05.2007 at 23:13

@Dr.Rock:thanks dude I am glad i could find some more people for my way
@SirIronMaidenKim I don't think a person who listens to R&B or commercial pop can have ideas like us.Metal helps people -at least me- to have different ideas different attitudes towards things.To keep that soul one should live in a metalic way

Did you know it is possible to listen to R&B/commercial pop and metal at the same time? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Sooo, what people are saying here is,that every politician listens to metal?
Since they wouldn't care as much about war etc if they listened to country/pop etc?
Or are those the "exceptions of the rule"?

Again we've witnessed just how "bad" metal-heads can be.
I think it's weird that people whine about Metal being put in a bad light when some metal heads look down on other genres.
Just 'cos you dislike a genre, doesn't make you superior to it, and it doesn't give you the right to look down on other genres.
(atleast I believe so).

Metal has as much "rubbish" lyrics as any other genre.
Same with "good" lyrics, or lyrics that you can actually identify yourself with.
Christina Aguilera's song "Beautiful" for an example, has a great moral innit, but hey, that doesn't matter does it?
'cos "THERE ARE NO GUITAR SOLOS!? WTF!?" (sorry for caps, just making a statement here)


My God how sad this world would be if everyone listened to Metal, no variety, no "personal" bands, full of "Manowar"ish narrowminded metalheads, claiming their genre is the "tr00" metal.
Then some day, there would be a war between "The Power-Metal state" vs "The Black Metal state" etc etc.
*Sigh*

I would rejoice the day (that'll never come sadly) when people just respect eachothers taste for music, and actually realised every genre has it's "ups and downs" as anything else in this world.


Well, might as well go to bed.

No, I think that Metal simply sounds more serious than other genres do. It's a matter of perspective, and you could argue both ways on it.
@ Blackgirl
Links please?
And, I realises I was wrong about the dress thing, apologies for that.

Written by Piro on 05.06.2007 at 13:37

@ Blackgirl
Links please?
And, I realises I was wrong about the dress thing, apologies for that.

it's Blackgir.
and..link? like I have uploaded my opinion somewhere? My argument is easy to understand, and I don't see how I can clarify my argument with a link.

what about the lyrics of those so-called Norsecore bands, death metal and the lyrics of quite a few black metal bands?

By giving examples of these "Pointless lyrics" you claim them to have. I don't listen to norsecore, so that would help me ( and probably some others) out by giving examples.