Religion: Double Standards
Original post
Posted by APOHAKC, 08.04.2008 - 15:49
Now to the point, in every day life I see a lot things and contradictories that are pissing me off, whole idea for a thread came when I saw Dutch movie Fitna, you probably already heard about it, it is about Islam, scenarist was accused for hate speech while movie is called racist?! (since when religion and race are connected) and hateful. In the movie, they put strong anti-muslim accent, doesn't matter does I support or not whole concept of the movie, to sum it up, man that made a movie was literally impaled in the media because of the whole project.
Also, we have a bunch of movies that never ever got permission to be shown on tv about anti-judaism, (and please do not invert my words, anti-judaism and anti-semitism is not one the same), they were immediately shown as racist and hateful in the media, not rarely people were even imprisoned for making them.
Now, we have a bunch of anti-Christian movies on tv, that no one never ever bash as racist, that are shown daily on tv, no one ever question religious correctness of those movies, truth, mostly Christian by birth made those movies, but again, as someone declare himself as an anti-Christian what difference does it makes?
Question is, WHY is it ok to bash on Christianity and it is NOT ok to bash on any other religion and immediately it is characterized as hateful speech?
Examples in music, Ukrainian band Nokturnal Mortum had both anti-judaistic and anti-Christian lyrics, no one ever question anti-Christian part cause that's ok, but everyone bitch about anti-judaism?! What's with that?
80% of you are openly anti-Christian, and bash on Christianity on this forum and real life most probably, same as some metalstormers I know, once, I said to one member in real life damn they want to build stupid mosque in the middle of the town and he looked at me like that I said Gods knows what and told me don't be a racist (again?!), but never ever he said anything to me when I dozens of times said that Cathedral in the center of the town should be burned? (yeah, a little of trve metal behavior..)
Once on this forum member said to other member stop with you judaistic crap, I remember that very well, post was deleted and he got warned for racism again, but I also saw DOZENS of time members saying similar things like stop your Christian crap to other members and no one ever got warned for that.
Why is it ok to bitch about Christianity and it is blasphemy to bitch about all other organized religions (especially Islam and Judaism)?!?
Looks like a double standard to me...
| APOHAKC The Bard Posts: 3585  |
Well, Christianity is a great part of Europa (Islam and Judaism are not, unless we don't take Christianity as Judaic sect as some people do.) and as so it had great impact on European culture, almost everything worth something here was built or created (written) by Christianity's influence, but that does not mean they are right with their teachings.
---- They say that we are gone but I can't let you down The heathen faith will rise again we won't fail now I know we cannot die forever is our time Give my people back to me free from Christianity!!!!
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| Freezer Posts: 203  |
Written by APOHAKC on 28.06.2008 at 15:31 indeed, the fact that a lot of great architecture had the chance of being built and that SOME arts have been encouraged, doesn't mean that everything is good :p
---- We fly through this godless endeavor, we try to explain the black forever
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| Dagorwen Posts: 291  |
Written by APOHAKC on 28.06.2008 at 15:31 of course, it's not a matter of teaching but of culture: I mean, if a country wants to joins Europe, it should have to be part of that culture to, or Europe doesn't mean anything... but I'm going a little bit off thread, sory..
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| belisarius Posts: 222 |
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| Varegan Hamranakara Posts: 912  |
Written by APOHAKC on 28.06.2008 at 15:11 why they call you are a racist  religions does not depends on races, especially Islam!!! is the last religion and have been descended for all humanity (as Muslims and Quran say),even though Islam and Judaism bother more than any other religions in my opinion!!! but all religion deserves hate equally, but these two deserves more hate. I'm not goin to take my band (in future) out of my country anyway, I will do this in Iran or i will not even think about it!!!
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| Black Winter Posts: 536  |
It's true that considering anti-Islam racism is mostly wrong,but believe there is a reason for such a confusion,it's a common belief in the west that most of muslims are middle easterners or arabs,when anti-islamist criminals target a potentially arab person,they don't ask him before if he were arab or muslim,they just attack him because he 'looks' muslim,have anyone seen he movie "This Is England"?that gives a thought about what I am talking about. Written by Varegan on 28.06.2008 at 03:29 Well Epica have many anti-Islamic lyrics,but still they did a concert here in Tunisia Written by Varegan on 28.06.2008 at 03:29 I don't know why you take every chance to spread these lies about Islam,keep doing it,and I will keep correcting it. 
---- Once the people decides to live, destiny will definetly obey.. T u n i s i a F r e e !
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| Varegan Hamranakara Posts: 912 |
its not lies!!! I'm sure you know what i mean. its exactly written in Quran, Allah have ordered Believers to cut off blasphemers heads off.  now I'm goin to listen to Epica!!! because thats so Anti-Islamic!!! ROFL
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| Hamird Lieutenant Posts: 2564  |
For make sure that Gorothtim's statement is right, look at Salman Rushdie's life! Khomeiny commanded every Muslims to kill him, anywhere that they found him! and until now there were some Muslim youth who tried to kill him, but it wasn't succeed. And about Epica, be sure that until now, no one realized that what are their lyrics about? if they'll understand, they react just like to other art which are not suitable for Islam... This religion can kill any time, it just needs a Fetva (commandment by a high rank religious man) then you can do anything you want! 
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| Number Juan Posts: 226  |
Written by Black Winter on 25.06.2008 at 12:58 When it comes to the statistics, I stand corrected but it is true that when it comes to discussions about Islam (especially in the West), people usually associate Islam with Middle Eastern Muslims and in order to not sound discriminatory against Middle Easterns/Arabs, they avoid criticizing Islam.
---- A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. - Bertrand Russell
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| Black Winter Posts: 536 |
Gorothrim,man!I have one verse for you that describes how muslims should deal with people like rushdie,but if you want to tell me what you exactly mean about these orders in the Quran,I will be grateful that you mention them in islam thread: "You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones."(16-125) @hamird but you keep forgetting that khomeini does in no way represent muslims or islam,he represents a group of shiites in iran,how can you (plural) make his statements look like a reference in islam?and if it was really an order,why did no major mufti make this fatwa to kill somebody,Alkaradawi is the most respected mufti,he is strongly against these violent acts,Al Azhar in egypt is also a very respected institution in the muslim world,they also are against any of these forms of violence;and one must be a maniac to listen to an underground fatwa and base on it some very serious act like killing,you know that killing in Islam is one of the Kabair(major sins).I mean come on!killing somebody for what he says about Islam!?we have an arab proverb that says in some way "the clouds will never be affected by dogs bark" And be sure that we had many discussions in tunisian forums about Epica's lyrics and that did not stop us from being at their concert. @Number Juan yes I agree,I've watched some shows and I saw that attitude.
---- Once the people decides to live, destiny will definetly obey.. T u n i s i a F r e e !
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| Dagorwen Posts: 291 |
Written by Varegan on 29.06.2008 at 02:08 so will I 
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| Black Winter Posts: 536 |
Written by Dagorwen on 29.06.2008 at 13:48 
---- Once the people decides to live, destiny will definetly obey.. T u n i s i a F r e e !
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| Aei Ontos Account deleted |
Aei Ontos
Account deleted Written by Dagorwen on 29.06.2008 at 13:48 Saviour Machine has a great song: The sword of Islam: (just a small part of the lyrics) Quote: It is not really a metalsong, it is called theatre rock, it has something of gothic. listen or download it here: http://www.great-mp3-2008.com/saviour_machine_legend_-_part_i/
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| Varegan Hamranakara Posts: 912 |
Written by [user id=30512] on 29.06.2008 at 14:48 I need something so brutal, something like Anti-Islamic 1349 , I don't mean Epica and such rock shits!!!
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| TOUGHEST MEMBER Posts: 3626  |
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| Varegan Hamranakara Posts: 912 |
Written by Black Winter on 29.06.2008 at 12:23 damn!! you forced me to pick up my old Quran again from W.C (I keep it there for fun) Allah says:"so if meet blasphemers, cut their heads off as much as you can,(kill a lot of them)...so strait the siege's ring" Muhammad-4 I'm not sure about that translation, but surely it says the purpose! now Im goin to put it back in w.c and keep headbanging with Epica thats so brutal and anti-islamic 
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| Hamird Lieutenant Posts: 2564 |
Written by Black Winter on 29.06.2008 at 12:23 I see what you say!! you must be born in Saladin Ayubi's era who world seen Real Muslims in that time. But you are a real Muslim and a pure one, but you shouldn't look at your self. Muslims are so nasty right now, in view of many people. I don't know what has made this to Muslims but today Muslims are Khomeini's party, Ben Ladan's Party and so on! You are (real muslim isolated) See my point? I understand you, because there are some people like you in my relatives. But you cannot defend Islam today, because what you say make +1 point in other religion's people and what poser muslims do make -9 points. so I'm sorry for Islam which is completely destroyed but posers.
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| Hamird Lieutenant Posts: 2564 |
Written by Varegan on 29.06.2008 at 18:32 Sina, I recommend you to listen to Manipulation by Six Feet Under (in their Warpath album) That is a nice song, and interesting that was my first Death Metal songs ever heard. and I became interested in Death Metal because I've that song. it's about manipulation of religion! also a passable video for that song has been made.
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| APOHAKC The Bard Posts: 3585 |
Written by Varegan on 28.06.2008 at 22:27 Because people are stupid mate, people are stupid as shit. It is sensitive here though, Sers (Christians) and Muslims have wars for 500 years and more, so for saying bad things about Islam people could love you or hate you if they are liberals, i hate both of them, and those people that would love me would change their mind the very same time they ask me about Christianity. I read Kuran and Bible both, I can't decide which one is better fairytales collection, Talmud is the worst though.
---- They say that we are gone but I can't let you down The heathen faith will rise again we won't fail now I know we cannot die forever is our time Give my people back to me free from Christianity!!!!
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| Black Winter Posts: 536 |
Written by Hamird on 29.06.2008 at 21:35 I agree with most of your post,I am aware of it,islam has unfortunately become the religion of violence,ignorance,terrosrism,retardment,and believe me I have a real hard time talking to some muslims who endorse some really extreme and ignorant thoughts,and they label me as indiectly as blasphemer(I am sure they would've said the word if it wasn't illigal to say,people go to jail in Tunisia for calling someone a blasphemer),it saddens me,but I know for certain that Islam is not to blame,muslims are crap,yes,but this religion,this Quran,man,is great,and it will always be,and there are truly devoted people out there who try to enlighten muslim minds,bring them back to the correct track. Written by Varegan on 29.06.2008 at 19:07 see,Gorothrim,you must've (or let's suppose that you did) forgot something,Do never translate incomplete verses,there is the translation of the full 4th verse: "If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste." so you can see,the verse talks about the state of war..when muslims are already in war,okay.
---- Once the people decides to live, destiny will definetly obey.. T u n i s i a F r e e !
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| Mosquiller Posts: 188  |
http://www.metal-archives.com/release.php?id=32930 . . . [Master] torture, -------- Allah, -------- burn down Mecca, -------- and, -------- make, -------- him eat all the, -------- muslims, [Servant] I shall burn down Mecca, -------- and make him eat all the muslims, . . . Wormphlegm, 2001 - In An Excruciating Way Infested With Vermin And Violated By Executioners Who Practise Incendia. @ Gorothrim : most of persian black bands have hatred towards religion A...N Spirits : http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=34354 Beaten Victoriouses : http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=39819 De Mysteriium : http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=120334 Halla : http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=111613 Midgard : http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=17916
---- Written by Konrad on 10.12.2009 at 22:41
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| AiwiAstwihad AiryanaKhvarenah Posts: 1421  |
@ ÆSHMA wow...that's great!!! thanX for your information. Written by APOHAKC on 30.06.2008 at 00:35 Quran is more a terrorizing book than a fairytail !!!but its part which describe heaven and hell can be good fairytailes... Written by TOUGHEST MEMBER on 29.06.2008 at 19:01 yep, it is. and at the end of the song there is an indication to Bahisht as a reward to muslim fighters. Written by Varegan on 29.06.2008 at 19:07 that statement is enough to be killed!!! no need to form an anti-islamic band. dige khunet halale = you deserve death now
---- You who will come to the surface
From the flood that's overwhelmed us and drowned us all Must think, when you speak of our weakness in times of darkness That you've not had to face
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| AiwiAstwihad AiryanaKhvarenah Posts: 1421 |
@black winter i don't want to turn this topic to a place for this Fu**ing relligion and be off-topic but as you started advertising it here, i put the response here: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Apostle and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution or crucifixion of the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land : that is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter. 5:33 Therefore when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight) smite at their necks; at length when ye have thoroughly subdued them bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah He will never let their deeds be lost. 47:4 * even if it's just in the case of war, the act of fighting those who disagree you is ridiculous and primitive. and there is no evidance in this vessel that this is a defensive war!!!! ...But if they turn renegades seize them and slay them wherever ye find them? and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. 4:89 ...therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them ; and against these We have given.you a clear authority. 4:91 But when the forbidden months are past then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. 9:5 O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites and be firm against them. Their abode is hell an evil refuge indeed. 9:73 Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil: so fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan. 4:76 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." 8:12 as i said before (in islam topic), i value your moderated beliefes but you cant apply it to islam, whether you like it or not islam is the relligion of blood, sword and terrorization. in addition to Rushdi's case, you certainly remember Theo van Gogh's murder in 2004. Mohammed Bouyeri, a Dutch citizen murdered him while he was bicycling to work. He shot him 8 times with an HS 2000 handgun, then cut Van Gogh's throat, nearly decapitating him, and stabbed him in the chest. Two knives were left implanted in his torso, one attaching a five-page note to his body. The note threatened Western governments, Jews and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (who went into hiding). he did this Although he was born in Amsterdam and was well-educated!!!! and you certainly remember Ayaan Hirsi Ali's case !!! and you certainly remember how muslims reacted to those cartoons published in denmark. and etc...
---- You who will come to the surface
From the flood that's overwhelmed us and drowned us all Must think, when you speak of our weakness in times of darkness That you've not had to face
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| Varegan Hamranakara Posts: 912 |
Written by Mosquiller on 30.06.2008 at 01:24 that was so brutal !!! thanks man.
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| APOHAKC The Bard Posts: 3585 |
btw, did not knew Iran is so hard core as Gorothrim described, I thought it is more civilized (religious) than Afghanistan Indonesia, I used to know guy from Iran before I lost contacts, from his stories it looked as some descent place where religion does not play such a huge role as in some other Islamic countries
---- They say that we are gone but I can't let you down The heathen faith will rise again we won't fail now I know we cannot die forever is our time Give my people back to me free from Christianity!!!!
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| Hamird Lieutenant Posts: 2564 |
Written by APOHAKC on 30.06.2008 at 13:43 Yes, we have such hard lives here  but there's one thing: if you don't get in political matters you will live almost safe! because here when people be against the politics, government use religion as a weapon and bycote them! here religion works for politics!!And thats why still Islamic Republic is strong! they call enemies of their own, the enemies of God!
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| Varegan Hamranakara Posts: 912 |
Written by Hamird on 30.06.2008 at 13:49 it means "stay Secluded and shut up or come and lick my testicles and pay your offering to my god"
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| AiwiAstwihad AiryanaKhvarenah Posts: 1421 |
Written by Varegan on 30.06.2008 at 19:42 simply the golden rule is: whatever you say, your majesty. then, they may let you breathe (under their supervision, of course!!), but not more than needed!!!
---- You who will come to the surface
From the flood that's overwhelmed us and drowned us all Must think, when you speak of our weakness in times of darkness That you've not had to face
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| Twilight IntepridTraveler Posts: 1178  |
I share the feeling of Aronax Of Steel. But here's what I think: Christianity has been bashed for a long time already. Monty Python's Life of Brian has been quite a landmark concerning this. But there were a lot of Christians against this movie and wanted it to be banned. Islamic countries weren't much involved with the Western world back then but now they are getting more and more involved, especially the media. I think Christians care less about their religion being bashed because people have been doing that for a long time already and that's why freedom of expression is generally more accepted by them. But most Islamic people aren't familiar enough with it. That's why they still protest against any kind of expression that's bashing them. I think it's this difference of experience with freedom of expression with both religions that cause people to make unfair decisions about what to call racism and what not. Just my two cents.
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