Written by Destryphior on 17.09.2006 at 18:25

@Draklar, That's kind of dumb too, does the genre make differnece, I listen to music because it's good not because iof it's genre...

Well, not everyone have time and/or money to experiment within genres that they don't like in general. Possibly no will either if they feel best with the music they listened to before.

Most bands have samples on the net, people make recomendations, by asking and talking you discover many new bands... Anyway my point was that music isn't worse because it's Power metal or anything else...

Some do have samples, of course. But as far as this case (Children Of Bodom) goes, I couldn't find any.
And as for recommendations, I think it would be better if people recommended COB in case of
"Recommend me some non-cheesy power metal"
Rather than
"Recommend me some good melodeath metal"

And I never said any genre is worse than another. Just that fans of death metal aren't very likely to be into bands like COB.

@Draklar: I'm a Death Metal Fan and I love CoB

Bah, I had a feeling someone would take my last statement out of context.

Judging by your profile, you're also a Heavy Metal fan, which puts into doubt that you actually dislike power metal (but yeah, I don't know that for sure).
If you'll go one page back, I'm talking about death metal fans, who actually dislike power metal.

Written by [user id=1868] on 09.09.2006 at 15:08

Written by [user id=5431] on 09.09.2006 at 12:34

Yes, but it's not what Dragonforce play (that's jsut power metal but faster)

From wiki:
"Their second release, Sonic Firestorm saw the arrival of ex-Bal-Sagoth drummer Dave Mackintosh. The blast beat style of drumming, normally confined to the death metal and hardcore genres, was adopted into DragonForce's playing, giving support to their newly born extreme power metal genre. Sonic Firestorm featured more complex guitar parts, as well."

Soanta Arctica's drumming is as fast as Dragonforce and no oen calls theme xtreme. Dragonforce just call themselves that because they want to get attention as their music is far too generic, predictable and bland to stand out.

Uhm, which Sonata Arctica songs contain blastbeats? I don't recall hearing those in their music. And the stuff from them that I have, have really generic power metal drumming...

Hehe.....really, really generic power metal drumming.

I think "Extreme Power metal" bands are the MID TERM, 2 cheezy to be death metal, and doesnt follow power metal's basic rules....

extreme power metal has nothing to do with death metal, nor in the case of CoB and the other bands, nor in the case of Dragonforce.

Um, IMO Power metal with harsh vocals would be a better description for CoB than Extreme power metal... Kalmah could be called extreme, can't find the extreme part in CoB...

Well, saying extreme power metal is not very clear. We could say DragonForce is extreme power metal, because they play extremely fast. This would be right IMO.

To say that CoB is power metal but with a different touch (voice and lyrics) I'd use a combination of death and power... Power death metal? Melodic death metal?

It's hard to explain, really.

I don't see this wrongly named genre stuff as such a bad thing. When someone says extreme power metal I at least think straight away bands like Wintersun, CoB, Norther, Kalmah, etc.. For someone who hears that name first time may found it quite odd, yes, but I'd say that it would be foolish to not to check it out before judging, right?

Yeah, but then again "power metal with harsh vocals" would have the same effect on you, right? And it would be much less confusing.

Calling CoB Melo-Death is like calling it Poetic Albino Chick Metal, it doesn't say shit, at least not anything true... It is the listeners of metals that make up the names of genres so it's we who decide what to call things and by following some rules it's easier to seperate different bands, therefore it's up to us... It seems like some people don't have clear for themselves what melo-death is and for them it should be best to update their information...

Written by Escapist on 18.09.2006 at 19:32

Well, saying extreme power metal is not very clear. We could say DragonForce is extreme power metal, because they play extremely fast. This would be right IMO.

There is more to extreme than just playing fast.

I think there are a lot of other factors that make 'extreme' music 'extreme' :

dark subject matter,

production should be a little/LOT rough - it shouldn't sound pristine, plastic, and packaged for mass consumption

'negative' emotions/empathy associated with the music,

Extreme music should be a complete package that challenges convention and adopts a rebellious stance. When I think of "extreme" I think primarily of Death, Black, and Grind - music which is offensive by it's very nature. Nothing about Dragonforce is particularly rough or offensive. To me it just sounds overproduced, plastic, and mastubatory.

They play quickly - so perhaps "Speed power metal" might be a more accurate descriptor, if you feel the need to separate them from the rest of the power metal pack... as if Metal needs more sub-sub-subgenres to differentiate any band that sounds even remotely, slightly different from those playing primarily the exact same stuff.

In Germany this musical term is not usual. To my mind there
is no 'Extreme Power Metal' because bands like Children of
Bodom are Melodic Death bands and not power metal bands
which are extreme.

Children of Bodom is rooted in Death and Black, but they play
a very fast and melodic version of these genres. So it's called
melodic death...

I rate this term as stupid...

... and calling CoB black metal is wise, eh? btw there's a site wich actually calls CoB heavy black. lol.

No I haven't called them black, but there early demo tapes (you might know them)
from the "InEarth" times are rooted in black metal. The CoB we know today or better
we know from Something Wild in '97 is NO black metal of course.

But what I wanted to say was, that they're historical not rooted in power, but in black
and death...

yeah but a bands roots dont have to have anything to do with the music they wind up playing, for example Therion had their roots in deathmetal, but nowadays nobody would associate them with deathmetal

I don't get this root thing. what CoB material we ever heard was nothing near black metal. nor in the roots, nor in the branches, leaves etc.

they have demo stuff from before they were called Children Of Bodom which does resemble melodic blackmetal in some ways

Written by Bas on 25.09.2006 at 23:22

they have demo stuff from before they were called Children Of Bodom which does resemble melodic blackmetal in some ways

That's right. It's difficult to explain myself in this case. In germany the term "extreme power metal" does not exist in anyway.
Relating to the Metalstorm databank you define Finntroll as Extreme Folk Metal. To me (to germans) it is simply Folk Metal.
And Children of Bodom is (in all german metal magazines) defined as Melodic Death...
But definitions are overestimated... The most important thing is, that CoB rules

I don't care if they were Inearthed before. I was talking about the band Children Of Bodom. they changed the name for a reaon: the 2 bands are not one and the same. just like their style.

Written by [user id=3005] on 02.09.2006 at 19:22

I just sayed that vocal style is irrelevant in defining(which is theoretically impossible) a genre .

I disagree. Vocals are just another instrument, no doubt about it. So we should count vocals as an extreme element, in our case.

Written by Bas on 01.09.2006 at 21:50

well Children Of Bodom IS powermetal, no matter what Laiho says, he is a musician, not a professional music critic, and musicians dont neccessarily have to know much music theory to be good musicians, and they dont at all have to be able to define metal genres to be good musicians

I absolutely agree. Musicians themselves are the most subjective persons in defining genres. It is like when some girl thinks about herself she is ugly, but all other people can see she is not. So who would you say is true?

Written by Damnated on 01.09.2006 at 23:39

It is power metal, but calling it extreme is just stupid. They should call it the new wave of pwM or something like that.

At least when you say 'extreme power metal' I can imagine what it is. When you say 'new wave of power metal' I have no idea what do you mean, unless I know the band. It's like the cathegories I can see in my metal magazine - 'extreme psycho core/metal' or 'freaky funky core' ... wtf is that? Saying 'extreme power' or 'melodic death' is much clear imo.

Written by marinBG on 01.09.2006 at 21:39

And I really don't think that Children Of Bodom and Manowar for example should be both counted in the same cathegory...

Nor do I. 'Cause: 1) Manowar are not power metal. Imo they are heavy metal. 2) COB are not pure power metal (and they aren't pure black metal either).
That's why this 'EXTREME power metal' genre. You can call COB extreme power metal, so they won't be in the same cathegory as Blind Guardian and they also won't be in the same cathegory as Vader, for example.
You can also call them 'melo-death' and I will not argue. [But it doesn't mean that epm is the same genre as mdm of course!]
I myself call them extreme power because I have no problem with power metal [I like it]. They are somewhere between power (e.g. keyboards) and death (e.g. vocals) imo. And it is upon you whether you want to put them to 'extreme power' or 'melodic death' or somewhere else. They have elements of both genres in their music.

The borders between genres aren't always clear, like for example in biology. They are also not sure whether some creatures are still plants or already animals... It's the same endless discussion.

Btw, what about calling this genre COB metal ? They are the best example of it

Written by [user id=16656] on 26.09.2006 at 11:14

At least when you say 'extreme power metal' I can imagine what it is. When you say 'new wave of power metal' I have no idea what do you mean, unless I know the band. It's like the cathegories I can see in my metal magazine - 'extreme psycho core/metal' or 'freaky funky core' ... wtf is that? Saying 'extreme power' or 'melodic death' is much clear imo.

but dragonforce or dragonpower is also extreme power metal. and they don't play the music Bodom does.

btw, I didn't got any notifications...

Written by Damnated on 26.09.2006 at 16:10

Written by [user id=16656] on 26.09.2006 at 11:14

At least when you say 'extreme power metal' I can imagine what it is. When you say 'new wave of power metal' I have no idea what do you mean, unless I know the band. It's like the cathegories I can see in my metal magazine - 'extreme psycho core/metal' or 'freaky funky core' ... wtf is that? Saying 'extreme power' or 'melodic death' is much clear imo.

but dragonforce or dragonpower is also extreme power metal. and they don't play the music Bodom does.

btw, I didn't got any notifications...

In this case I can agree with the term "Extreme Power Metal", because
DragonForce is evidently Power Metal, but they are much faster, much
more complexe and above all more virtuous then classic Power bands.

To come again back to the InEarth and Children of Bodom discussion:
You cannot ignore InEarth when listening to CoB, because they are an-
chored in InEarth. Only the fact that the switched their bandname does
not mean that they are a different or an other band!

there are too many cases when the name change was because the band decided to continue with another direction in music. and this is also the case of Bodom/Inearthed. from this we end up saying that every project of a musician has to be between the borders of one genre.

Written by Damnated on 26.09.2006 at 19:48

there are too many cases when the name change was because the band decided to continue with another direction in music. and this is also the case of Bodom/Inearthed. from this we end up saying that every project of a musician has to be between the borders of one genre.

I thought the name change was because of their former label and
based on the fact, that their material would not sell well when they
are named "InEarth"... But maybe you are right

Written by Damnated on 26.09.2006 at 07:36

I don't care if they were Inearthed before. I was talking about the band Children Of Bodom. they changed the name for a reaon: the 2 bands are not one and the same. just like their style.

But a lot of the Inearthed material was very similar to CoB's (early) music. Elements of CoB are present in the deathier stuff, and the later Inearthed material is practically pure CoB (consider that riffs in 'Talking of the Trees' were used in 'Mask of Sanity').