Written by X-Ray Rod on 02.02.2012 at 23:19

Written by Zombie94 on 02.02.2012 at 23:11
There is only one album before De Mysterris and that is Deathcrush, which only has 6 songs, including a drum intro. That's where I get the idea.

But he worked fully on DMDS too, the other guitarist at the time ( Blackthorn) only did a couple of riffs.

Ah I see. I was under the impression that he died before recording of De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas began. In that case he was indeed quite talented because there are some quality riffs on there.

Written by Zombie94 on 02.02.2012 at 23:33
Ah I see. I was under the impression that he died before recording of De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas began. In that case he was indeed quite talented because there are some quality riffs on there.

The recording actually started around 1987 and because of several delays like dead's suicide in 1991 and Euro's death in 1993 the album ended up being released in 94 Pretty much all the material was already done by 1992 or so.

Amusingly my favorite riff in an Emperor song, the opening one that marks the end of "The Oath" and kicks "Ye Entrancemperium" into gear, is one Euro came up with...

This is a random aside, well sort of, but if any of you have the time you should check out Once Upon a Time in Norway and Until the Light Takes Us if you haven't already. The former is all about Mayhem and a lot of it is about Euronymous. The latter follows mostly Fenriz from Darkthrone but spends almost an equal amount of time with Varg prior to his release from prison. Both are very informative and illuminating, but I would caution that Once Upon a Time.. is nowhere near as professionally done, and is sort of biased in favor of Mayhem and Euronymous specifically.

Written by BitterCOld on 03.02.2012 at 00:10

Amusingly my favorite riff in an Emperor song, the opening one that marks the end of "The Oath" and kicks "Ye Entrancemperium" into gear, is one Euro came up with...

Let's not forget his influence in turning Darkthrone into a Black Metal band either. Oh and no one flame me about Transivlanian Hunger being heavily influenced by Varg. I already know...just saying...Euronymous was the one that pushed them through that door in the first place.

Written by IncoherentScream on 03.02.2012 at 00:14

Let's not forget his influence in turning Darkthrone into a Black Metal band either. Oh and no one flame me about Transivlanian Hunger being heavily influenced by Varg. I already know...just saying...Euronymous was the one that pushed them through that door in the first place.

i mentioned the impact of his influencing other young bands (Darkthrone by name) and providing the HQ of the BM Social Scene with the record store about 4 years ago on the first page of the thread.

Anyone should read Metalion The Slayer Diaries to get Jon Kristiansen's perspective on all of this.

Written by I Eat God on 03.02.2012 at 11:56

Written by BloodTears on 26.08.2008 at 22:58

This whole thing is just very curious to me, Varg stabs the other guy and according to the general opinion here, Euro was more influential musically speaking, so basically Varg killed what black metal could've become musically and how it could've grown. So how can one defend Varg? He kills the musical genius and he kills a person, it's detestable!

I'm not voting, I'm just sharing my thoughts on this, based on what I know and what has been discussed here so far.

Simply Because those support Varg don't have a brain ! Most of the time they use their dicks / pussies to think. The judge has brain, so he sent him 18 years.

Wow, that comment was from 2008 And people are still discussing this ahah Well, I still have the same opinion though, although more detached now.

@ I eat God : stop your whining about Euro being dead and Varg being a man who killed him.In either way those two has settled their scores like a men ,one ended up dead the second went to jail.I like the music of both of them and support none of them.
And also i have concluded that you are nothing but a troll ,so i will not feed you anymore , and if you have something against what i wrote ,than go visit Euro's grave or something

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 03.02.2012 at 14:06

@ I eat God : stop your whining about Euro being dead and Varg being a man who killed him.In either way those two has settled their scores like a men ...

You call stabbing someone in the back multiple times "settling scores like a man"? I would call that pure cowardice.

People that kill other people aren't real men

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 03.02.2012 at 14:28

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 03.02.2012 at 14:06

@ I eat God : stop your whining about Euro being dead and Varg being a man who killed him.In either way those two has settled their scores like a men ...

You call stabbing someone in the back multiple times "settling scores like a man"? I would call that pure cowardice.

either way they have settled the thing that was between them once and for all .... its history anyway...
the thing that i find annoying is that both fans of Varg and Euro are still trying to convince each other who is worse of those two.That's pointless if you ask me.

Written by BitterCOld on 03.02.2012 at 00:19

Written by IncoherentScream on 03.02.2012 at 00:14

Let's not forget his influence in turning Darkthrone into a Black Metal band either. Oh and no one flame me about Transivlanian Hunger being heavily influenced by Varg. I already know...just saying...Euronymous was the one that pushed them through that door in the first place.

i mentioned the impact of his influencing other young bands (Darkthrone by name) and providing the HQ of the BM Social Scene with the record store about 4 years ago on the first page of the thread.

Laziness prevented me from going back that far but I'm glad we agree.

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 03.02.2012 at 16:03

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 03.02.2012 at 14:28

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 03.02.2012 at 14:06

@ I eat God : stop your whining about Euro being dead and Varg being a man who killed him.In either way those two has settled their scores like a men ...

You call stabbing someone in the back multiple times "settling scores like a man"? I would call that pure cowardice.

either way they have settled the thing that was between them once and for all .... its history anyway...
the thing that i find annoying is that both fans of Varg and Euro are still trying to convince each other who is worse of those two.That's pointless if you ask me.

I'm not really trying to convince anyone that one is "worse" than the other, and I think anyone who does is sort of missing the point. They were both very psychologically messed up people. Varg still is. But that is what led to the music they created so no harm no foul. My point was that Varg's story is obviously bullshit. His justifications for his actions are ludicrous at best. So he thought Euro kept a shotgun in his room and proceeded to stab him because of that?? No one in their right mind thinks instantly of murder in a situation like that. I think I would try and stop him, probably even beat the shit out of him but stab him when he is unarmed? I think not.

Varg wasn't acting as a real man he was acting as what he was; a psychologically troubled youth. Now, he is a psychologically troubled adult. But again, if asked to determine whom I would lend my support based solely on the music? Euronymous for me hands down. Which now I'm repeating myself....hmmm....

You can't compare the two musically. If we want to compare them by achievements, then Varg will win. He has released more stuff than Euronymous who only had De Mysteriis. However, Euronymous played a bigger role than Varg in the development of black metal. If he hadn't been killed by Varg, we could've been able to compare the duo musically. Outside of music, it's something else... Not really worth debating IMO.

Personally, I choose Varg, because Euronymous had sent death threats to non-tr00 black metal bands, and I believe he's insane enough to really kill them. Moreover, the atmospheric non-tr00 subgenre of black metal is my favorite, and it was heavily influenced by Varg

Euronymous wins because he's dead, and that makes him tr00 black metal grrr. anyone still alive is a lame wannabe black metal poser hippy. so there.

Can I say they both suck, or is that a big no-no in the rules?

Written by Oaken on 08.02.2012 at 23:35

You can't compare the two musically. If we want to compare them by achievements, then Varg will win. He has released more stuff than Euronymous who only had De Mysteriis. However, Euronymous played a bigger role than Varg in the development of black metal. If he hadn't been killed by Varg, we could've been able to compare the duo musically. Outside of music, it's something else... Not really worth debating IMO.

Personally, I choose Varg, because Euronymous had sent death threats to non-tr00 black metal bands, and I believe he's insane enough to really kill them. Moreover, the atmospheric non-tr00 subgenre of black metal is my favorite, and it was heavily influenced by Varg

Let's not get into a debate over "tr00" BM and all...that is all silliness if you ask me anyways. The greatest thing about the early portion of the second wave is that they were discovering the black metal sound and so there really was no "tr00" (which I guess it's only really true for real if you spell it with zeroes or a "v") just a bunch of guys exploring an extreme musical expression in multiple ways.

For the record though, Euronymous didn't just release De Mysteriis Dom Sahtanas. You are forgetting the Deathcrush EP. So if you count the amount of material Varg released before going to prison that only puts him two albums up on Euro. (That is discounting the mini-EP Aske which is now included as part of the self-titled debut LP). Quantity does not equal quality. In the words of Fenriz, a part of this early scene himself; "Euronymous invented this black metal riff. He had this way of playing these chords one after the other and the notes would sort of trail off into each other. It sent chills down your spine."

Also considering that Mayhem was a) the first band to play with corpse paint live, b) Euro pretty much invented the black metal riff and c) they released Deathcrush before Darkthrone and Burzum had released their seminal works, well, I think it's pretty obvious who wins in the "influential" argument.

As far as musically Euro contributed the most while Varg sort of refined the sound further. BUT...if you had read earlier comments some of us agreed that, in our opinion, Euro would have continued to have advanced as an artist and continued to create new and interesting material whereas Varg has been sort of retreading old ground after his video game soundtrack prison albums.

Varg is talented in a sort of technical, "holy shit is this one guy no fucking way it kicks my dick in!" kind of way. Euro had that sort of struggling crazy Mozart shit going on. As I've said before, that sort of genius, to me at least, creates waaaaay more interesting art than the former. To each his own though....

"Yeah, great art is about conflict and pain and guilt and longing and love disguised as sex, and sex disguised as love..." - Lester Bangs

I just wanted to add that after posting on this topic the past couple of weeks that it got me itching to put some Mayhem on the turntable. So I pulled out Live in Leipzig and it just reconfirmed what I've been saying all along. Euronymous was like the Jimi Hendrix of Black Metal in that there was a sort of magic in the way that he played. They share an almost sloppy style despite their talent. Like their emotions were flowing through their instruments not just notes. I know the original argument wasn't "Who is the better guitarist?" Just had this thought pop up in my head while listening and thought fuck it...I'll share it.

Euronymous and Jimi Hendrix in the same sentence is just... wrong.

Written by vezzy on 11.02.2012 at 12:44

Euronymous and Jimi Hendrix in the same sentence is just... wrong.

Well in the aspect that I was comparing them it made sense to me. Both played more with emotion then anything else. That is the kind of guitar player and the kind of songwriter that I prefer to listen to. That's what I was driving at. I wasn't saying that they were equal in skill but since no one ever heard, or rather, there is no recording of Euro playing anything other than metal we can't rule out his ability to play at the level of Hendrix either. Both artist were pushing the limits of the genre they were playing in and trying to get new and interesting sounds out of their instruments. That was the parallel I was illustrating.

Written by Oaken on 08.02.2012 at 23:35
Euronymous had sent death threats to non-tr00 black metal bands, and I believe he's insane enough to really kill them.

Yeah because Varg isn't crazy at all.... Please, what a joke. This part of your post is based only on random speculation plus the fact that you ignore that Varg is clearly off the scale in terms of crazyness compared to Euronymous. Not to mention what a coward scumbag that guy is.

In either way we cant know for sure what happened between them,and whether they were crazy or not....simply because we dont know/knew them in person...now when i see fans arguing about them on forums it makes me laugh ....
"pffttf....FANBOYS!"...

Written by X-Ray Rod on 11.02.2012 at 16:13

Written by Oaken on 08.02.2012 at 23:35
Euronymous had sent death threats to non-tr00 black metal bands, and I believe he's insane enough to really kill them.

Yeah because Varg isn't crazy at all.... Please, what a joke. This part of your post is based only on random speculation plus the fact that you ignore that Varg is clearly off the scale in terms of crazyness compared to Euronymous. Not to mention what a coward scumbag that guy is.

Point taken. Varg is crazy, maybe crazier than Euronymous, and yet he didn't threaten to kill those not "tr00" enough. But if Euronymous had killed non-tr00 black metal band members, then that would have damaged the black metal scene. Black metal is not only about 'tr00ness'. I think if Euronymous had lived, then we would not have seen bands like Deafheaven or albums like Blut Aus Nord's 777 series. And it would suck if that happened.

I love the internet.

Written by IncoherentScream on 11.02.2012 at 07:51

Written by Oaken on 08.02.2012 at 23:35

You can't compare the two musically. If we want to compare them by achievements, then Varg will win. He has released more stuff than Euronymous who only had De Mysteriis. However, Euronymous played a bigger role than Varg in the development of black metal. If he hadn't been killed by Varg, we could've been able to compare the duo musically. Outside of music, it's something else... Not really worth debating IMO.

Personally, I choose Varg, because Euronymous had sent death threats to non-tr00 black metal bands, and I believe he's insane enough to really kill them. Moreover, the atmospheric non-tr00 subgenre of black metal is my favorite, and it was heavily influenced by Varg

Euro would have continued to have advanced as an artist and continued to create new and interesting material whereas Varg has been sort of retreading old ground after his video game soundtrack prison albums.

I disagree. I imagine he would have stuck to his original formula to stay "tr00" without injecting innovation, which is why BM is one of the best metal genres at the moment. It's still going strong because its sound keeps evolving, unlike, let's say, death metal. Personally, I think Euronymous would have dubbed innovative black metal as 'false' even though it could be better than the stuff he plays. Euronymous wanted to create the "Always satanic, bad recording, anti-everything, non-technical never-advancing music". If every black metal band followed that formula, then I think the genre would have died, even with its thriving underground. Not to mention that Euronymous actually ruled the world of black metal. A guy who burned churches wouldn't mind killing "non-tr00" bands who in his opinion ruined black metal.

Written by Oaken on 11.02.2012 at 18:31

Written by X-Ray Rod on 11.02.2012 at 16:13

Written by Oaken on 08.02.2012 at 23:35
Euronymous had sent death threats to non-tr00 black metal bands, and I believe he's insane enough to really kill them.

Yeah because Varg isn't crazy at all.... Please, what a joke. This part of your post is based only on random speculation plus the fact that you ignore that Varg is clearly off the scale in terms of crazyness compared to Euronymous. Not to mention what a coward scumbag that guy is.

Point taken. Varg is crazy, maybe crazier than Euronymous, and yet he didn't threaten to kill those not "tr00" enough. But if Euronymous had killed non-tr00 black metal band members, then that would have damaged the black metal scene. Black metal is not only about 'tr00ness'. I think if Euronymous had lived, then we would not have seen bands like Deafheaven or albums like Blut Aus Nord's 777 series. And it would suck if that happened.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Varg is in fact a murderer - of Euronymous no less! Euronymous may have been crazy but, as you say, he never actually killed anyone.

And are you seriously saying that it's good Euronymous is dead so that you can listen to BAN and Deafheaven? Surely not?

Written by LordFezzington on 11.02.2012 at 20:11
And are you seriously saying that it's good Euronymous is dead so that you can listen to BAN and Deafheaven? Surely not?

Thing is... that I'm pretty sure Euronymous whould have liked the genre to stay as ridiculously underground as possible... thus, making experimentations with genre hardly possible. This is pure speculation but I don't see it as something so unlikely.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 11.02.2012 at 23:11

Written by LordFezzington on 11.02.2012 at 20:11
And are you seriously saying that it's good Euronymous is dead so that you can listen to BAN and Deafheaven? Surely not?

Thing is... that I'm pretty sure Euronymous whould have liked the genre to stay as ridiculously underground as possible... thus, making experimentations with genre hardly possible. This is pure speculation but I don't see it as something so unlikely.

Oh I get that, and I'm sure you're right - I was more picking up on what seemed to be a celebration of Euronymous' death is all. Morbid.

Written by LordFezzington on 11.02.2012 at 23:20
Oh I get that, and I'm sure you're right - I was more picking up on what seemed to be a celebration of Euronymous' death is all. Morbid.

Oh yeah, I didn't reallu notice that part... and I agree with you, it sounds a bit tasteless.