He probably should've focused on progressive/technical/power metal a bit...now that I think about it...and if he did, not just have Dream Theater...

I liked it, i thought it was a very straightforward overview, and some very interesting points were raised. It was nothing complex, but thats not what it was all about anyway, it was mainly identifying the pioneers and their views of the culture.

The only really disagreement i see is that lady in the house, i dont agree with most things she says.

Written by totaliteraliter on 17.12.2007 at 01:48

Obviously the shallow documentary...

What did you expect from a 90 minute documentary on metal in general. Such a docu can never ever delve deep into metal (or any other kind of music for that matter) then you'd need a multiple episode series (I am guessing about 30 episodes of 90 minutes each at least)

Hell, I saw Get Thrashed: The Story Of Thrash Metal, which is a 99 minute docu on thrash and that still doesn't go too deep cause lack of time.
All that doesn't make it a bad docu, in the case of Headbanger's Journey, it is quite a good docu from both the cinematic aspect and subject matter as well. Yes, there were some weird little mistakes in there (all of which in the tree diagram btw, which was done by Martin Popoff and not Sam Dunn), but that's what you get when you don't have a team of around 100 experts advising you)

I saw .. it's amazing... I liked it very much... that guy relaly does a deep analysis of why people could dislike metal ... starting his experience like metal head ... unforgetable interviews ... like the one done to Gaahl fo Gorgoroth ...

Written by Ascalon on 26.12.2007 at 20:08

unforgetable interviews ... like the one done to Gaahl fo Gorgoroth ...

And the Mayhem interview at Wacken

That one was quite funny ... gusy from Mayhem are ... energic ... at least ... !! xD ...

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 26.12.2007 at 14:42

Written by totaliteraliter on 17.12.2007 at 01:48

Obviously the shallow documentary...

What did you expect from a 90 minute documentary on metal in general.

My expectations were low to begin with, but the length isn't a problem. I don't see why you need more than 90 minutes to present some interesting insight or to at least make metal look like more than idiot music for social rejects.

Metal is more than music for the socially inadequate, thats exactly what Sam was trying to say. He opened a higher perception through the interviews of former artists, journalists and veteren metalheads not only as a means of challenging the perception of detractors, but also showing that metal can be appreciated by any demographic providing they open their ears. And reffering back to our previouse argument, no I'm not lobbing shit at you for the mere fact that you criticise this documentary, it's your reasons that bother me.

You seem to think that it's wrong for metal to be a positive influence on juviniles and reclusive teenagers and at the same time refuse to see that this documentary is saying more then that, yet-refferincing your use of the word 'shallow'-it's just as 'shallow' and, in fact, even more stupid to criticise metal for being all of the above mentioned. This is why you strike me as a bit of a wanker and a hypocrite and unsure weather you know what your talking about. But oh well, thats politics for you. You have your opinion and I have mine. As long as it's between those lines I can care less.

Written by [user id=26806] on 01.01.2008 at 20:10
Metal is more than music for the socially inadequate, thats exactly what Sam was trying to say. He opened a higher perception through the interviews of former artists, journalists and veteren metalheads not only as a means of challenging the perception of detractors, but also showing that metal can be appreciated by any demographic providing they open their ears.

Exactly, the portrayal gives us metal at its most benign; focusing on the lowest common denominator that has no depth and can appeal to everyone. Hence I use the word apologist, and that's not what I, as a fan of metal, need or want to see.

Written by [user id=26806] on 01.01.2008 at 20:10
You seem to think that it's wrong for metal to be a positive influence on juviniles and reclusive teenagers and at the same time refuse to see that this documentary is saying more then that, yet-refferincing your use of the word 'shallow'-it's just as 'shallow' and, in fact, even more stupid to criticise metal for being all of the above mentioned. This is why you strike me as a bit of a wanker and a hypocrite and unsure weather you know what your talking about. But oh well, thats politics for you. You have your opinion and I have mine. As long as it's between those lines I can care less.

What's this about? I'm criticizing a film, not metal.

As much as I love this film, the one thing I thought was sort of a problem was Sam seemed to shoot himself in the foot with the fan interviews. He talks in the beginning of the film about people dismissing Metalheads as uneducated low lifes, and then he interviews people spout off the F-bomb every five words. Well no wonder people think Metalheads are dumb.

I had a friend of mine watch this film not to long ago and give me his opinion of Metalheads based upon what he saw in this film. Mind you, this guy knew nothing about Metal. After watching the film he was under the assumption that Metalheads are depressive, angry, pissed off, anti-Christian, sex-obsessed people who love to use the word "fuck".

Haha, well as much as I love the word "fuck" he did interview the "wrong people" sometimes.

Written by Dane Train on 03.01.2008 at 19:07


I had a friend of mine watch this film not to long ago and give me his opinion of Metalheads based upon what he saw in this film. Mind you, this guy knew nothing about Metal. After watching the film he was under the assumption that Metalheads are depressive, angry, pissed off, anti-Christian, sex-obsessed people who love to use the word "fuck".

he might get the same from some of the folks on this forum, although perhaps omitting the "sex-obsessed" part.

Written by BitterCOld on 03.01.2008 at 20:09

Written by Dane Train on 03.01.2008 at 19:07


I had a friend of mine watch this film not to long ago and give me his opinion of Metalheads based upon what he saw in this film. Mind you, this guy knew nothing about Metal. After watching the film he was under the assumption that Metalheads are depressive, angry, pissed off, anti-Christian, sex-obsessed people who love to use the word "fuck".

he might get the same from this forum, although perhaps omitting the "sex-obsessed" part.

And he will get that idea from most concerts too, since 90% of the metalheads/metallers are "depressive, angry, pissed off, anti-Christian, sex-obsessed people who love to use the word "fuck"." social not the brightest shining lights, etc.
My God concerts usually are a gathering of brain-dead dumb f****s who have the brain capicity of a drunk amoeba.

Haha, yeah, we probably aren't as smart as we'd like to think we are.

Written by Warman on 03.01.2008 at 20:47

Haha, yeah, we probably aren't as smart as we'd like to think we are.

Exactly

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 03.01.2008 at 20:23

And he will get that idea from most concerts too, since 90% of the metalheads/metallers are "depressive, angry, pissed off, anti-Christian, sex-obsessed people who love to use the word "fuck"." social not the brightest shining lights, etc.
My God concerts usually are a gathering of brain-dead dumb f****s who have the brain capicity of a drunk amoeba.

That is so true. I can't wait to see what sort of morons come out of the wood work next week when I go to see Killswitch Engage. I might need to make a movie "Metal: A Brainless Journey".

Written by Dane Train on 03.01.2008 at 21:10

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 03.01.2008 at 20:23

And he will get that idea from most concerts too, since 90% of the metalheads/metallers are "depressive, angry, pissed off, anti-Christian, sex-obsessed people who love to use the word "fuck"." social not the brightest shining lights, etc.
My God concerts usually are a gathering of brain-dead dumb f****s who have the brain capicity of a drunk amoeba.

That is so true. I can't wait to see what sort of morons come out of the wood work next week when I go to see Killswitch Engage. I might need to make a movie "Metal: A Brainless Journey".

well, go to a brutal death metal show, and you'll see the missing link in abundance, those shows are great for one's low self-esteem.

Geuss I don't have much to expect when I see Megadeth this February, thanks a lot jerks

Seriously though, It really depends on where you go. Here in Amsterdam; Metalheads are few and far between but the one's I have met are either in univerisity or work at stage gigs them selfs. And anyway, I honestly don't believe that the wide majority of Metalheads are the social outcasts many of you describe.

Sure, there might be a few sad little fucks about who use metal to feel more depressed and are fucking stupid enough to wan't to go see a piece of shit band like Killswitch Engage, but their obviously from the later generation when true metal was being more and more distanced from the media. And hell, at least what their listening to now is keeping them from comitting suicide(...most of them) and it's also nice to know that Heavy Metal in general helps people that way.

Why are we fucking talking about this anyway? Do you people honestly go to Metal concerts to find social equallity? And if not then do you honestly believe that your the only people who go to Metal concerts because you fucking enjoy it?

all in all it's a good docu, but his classifications are fucked up hiliarious at times.

Written by [user id=26778] on 07.01.2008 at 02:27

all in all it's a good docu, but his classifications are fucked up hiliarious at times.

And the funny thing is that he didn't do those himself. He got Martin Popoff to do those

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 07.01.2008 at 02:47

Written by [user id=26778] on 07.01.2008 at 02:27

all in all it's a good docu, but his classifications are fucked up hiliarious at times.

And the funny thing is that he didn't do those himself. He got Martin Popoff to do those

I have no idea who Martin Popoff is, but the classifications are just-fucking-lol !

Written by [user id=26778] on 07.01.2008 at 03:25

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 07.01.2008 at 02:47

Written by [user id=26778] on 07.01.2008 at 02:27

all in all it's a good docu, but his classifications are fucked up hiliarious at times.

And the funny thing is that he didn't do those himself. He got Martin Popoff to do those

I have no idea who Martin Popoff is, but the classifications are just-fucking-lol !

He is a well-known metal journalist from Canada who has written quite a couple of nice books on metal. Such as The Top 500 Metal Albums Of All Time, The Top 500 Metal Songs Of All Time. A Collector's Guide To Heavy Metal, the Seventies, the Eighties, the Nineties.

Has anyone ever read a book called Running With The Devil? It was a book written by a non-metalhead sociologist I think that studied metal for a long period of time to write her book. I thought it was the biggest piece of shit I've ever read. Despite making a few fair statements, she went on to interview metalheads from the same sample of kids born into dirt poor, abusive families, often with their parents divorced and massive drug problems. I have no real problem with metalheads that do come from such a background or similar background, but she essentially painted a picture of heavy metal music only attracting people like that to it. Honestly, that is complete and utter crap. As Samuel550 said, most metalheads I know also go to university, have normal families and are generally pretty nice people.

Another thing I remember from the book which I remember laughing really hard at was her description of an Anthrax gig I think, where the singer reportedly swore at the audience and the audience cheered. She said metal audiences glorified violence and vulgarity, and maybe she has a point... but I never thought of it in that way. I've been to concerts where singers came out for encores to call the audience "motherfuckers" but it was all done in joking fashion, so I don't see how the audience is glorifying vulgarity.

That said... Metal: A Headbanger's Journey was done very well... Sam Dunn essentially created a movie to defend certain views of metal. I think his aim was to show how much metal helps people that ARE social outcasts and really have nothing else to turn to besides the music, which I think is great. He had no need to show different types of metalheads, as he himself is an intelligent, talented individual that comes from a fairly normal family background and that's shown in the movie.

Only thing I was disappointed about was not seeing more melodic/power/prog metal bands as someone mentioned. He delved deep into death metal and black metal, but pretty much ignored a lot of other sub genres. I suppose he wanted to concentrate on the more extreme sub-genres that were actually receiving a lot of media coverage at the time.

Written by [user id=28106] on 07.01.2008 at 15:17

Has anyone ever read a book called Running With The Devil? It was a book written by a non-metalhead sociologist I think that studied metal for a long period of time to write her book. I thought it was the biggest piece of shit I've ever read. Despite making a few fair statements, she went on to interview metalheads from the same sample of kids born into dirt poor, abusive families, often with their parents divorced and massive drug problems. I have no real problem with metalheads that do come from such a background or similar background, but she essentially painted a picture of heavy metal music only attracting people like that to it. Honestly, that is complete and utter crap. As Samuel550 said, most metalheads I know also go to university, have normal families and are generally pretty nice people.

Another thing I remember from the book which I remember laughing really hard at was her description of an Anthrax gig I think, where the singer reportedly swore at the audience and the audience cheered. She said metal audiences glorified violence and vulgarity, and maybe she has a point... but I never thought of it in that way. I've been to concerts where singers came out for encores to call the audience "motherfuckers" but it was all done in joking fashion, so I don't see how the audience is glorifying vulgarity.

That said... Metal: A Headbanger's Journey was done very well... Sam Dunn essentially created a movie to defend certain views of metal. I think his aim was to show how much metal helps people that ARE social outcasts and really have nothing else to turn to besides the music, which I think is great. He had no need to show different types of metalheads, as he himself is an intelligent, talented individual that comes from a fairly normal family background and that's shown in the movie.

Only thing I was disappointed about was not seeing more melodic/power/prog metal bands as someone mentioned. He delved deep into death metal and black metal, but pretty much ignored a lot of other sub genres. I suppose he wanted to concentrate on the more extreme sub-genres that were actually receiving a lot of media coverage at the time.

I have those terrible stories about Running With The Devil and therefore still want to read it. Btw it was written by a man, Robert Walser, and not a woman.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 07.01.2008 at 15:26

Written by [user id=28106] on 07.01.2008 at 15:17

Has anyone ever read a book called Running With The Devil? It was a book written by a non-metalhead sociologist I think that studied metal for a long period of time to write her book. I thought it was the biggest piece of shit I've ever read. Despite making a few fair statements, she went on to interview metalheads from the same sample of kids born into dirt poor, abusive families, often with their parents divorced and massive drug problems. I have no real problem with metalheads that do come from such a background or similar background, but she essentially painted a picture of heavy metal music only attracting people like that to it. Honestly, that is complete and utter crap. As Samuel550 said, most metalheads I know also go to university, have normal families and are generally pretty nice people.

Another thing I remember from the book which I remember laughing really hard at was her description of an Anthrax gig I think, where the singer reportedly swore at the audience and the audience cheered. She said metal audiences glorified violence and vulgarity, and maybe she has a point... but I never thought of it in that way. I've been to concerts where singers came out for encores to call the audience "motherfuckers" but it was all done in joking fashion, so I don't see how the audience is glorifying vulgarity.

That said... Metal: A Headbanger's Journey was done very well... Sam Dunn essentially created a movie to defend certain views of metal. I think his aim was to show how much metal helps people that ARE social outcasts and really have nothing else to turn to besides the music, which I think is great. He had no need to show different types of metalheads, as he himself is an intelligent, talented individual that comes from a fairly normal family background and that's shown in the movie.

Only thing I was disappointed about was not seeing more melodic/power/prog metal bands as someone mentioned. He delved deep into death metal and black metal, but pretty much ignored a lot of other sub genres. I suppose he wanted to concentrate on the more extreme sub-genres that were actually receiving a lot of media coverage at the time.

I have those terrible stories about Running With The Devil and therefore still want to read it. Btw it was written by a man, Robert Walser, and not a woman.

Oh shit I got the books confused... the book I was referring to was a completely different one... I can't remember the name for the life of me now. Running With The Devil was another book I read... I never read the entire thing, it was extremely complex and detailed though and specifically concentrated on the musical structures and nothing else. I thought it was a decent book from the first chapter that I read... I was having a hard time following it though haha so incredibly technical in its musical and sociology/media terms.

Written by [user id=28106] on 07.01.2008 at 15:54

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 07.01.2008 at 15:26

Written by [user id=28106] on 07.01.2008 at 15:17

Has anyone ever read a book called Running With The Devil? It was a book written by a non-metalhead sociologist I think that studied metal for a long period of time to write her book. I thought it was the biggest piece of shit I've ever read. Despite making a few fair statements, she went on to interview metalheads from the same sample of kids born into dirt poor, abusive families, often with their parents divorced and massive drug problems. I have no real problem with metalheads that do come from such a background or similar background, but she essentially painted a picture of heavy metal music only attracting people like that to it. Honestly, that is complete and utter crap. As Samuel550 said, most metalheads I know also go to university, have normal families and are generally pretty nice people.

Another thing I remember from the book which I remember laughing really hard at was her description of an Anthrax gig I think, where the singer reportedly swore at the audience and the audience cheered. She said metal audiences glorified violence and vulgarity, and maybe she has a point... but I never thought of it in that way. I've been to concerts where singers came out for encores to call the audience "motherfuckers" but it was all done in joking fashion, so I don't see how the audience is glorifying vulgarity.

That said... Metal: A Headbanger's Journey was done very well... Sam Dunn essentially created a movie to defend certain views of metal. I think his aim was to show how much metal helps people that ARE social outcasts and really have nothing else to turn to besides the music, which I think is great. He had no need to show different types of metalheads, as he himself is an intelligent, talented individual that comes from a fairly normal family background and that's shown in the movie.

Only thing I was disappointed about was not seeing more melodic/power/prog metal bands as someone mentioned. He delved deep into death metal and black metal, but pretty much ignored a lot of other sub genres. I suppose he wanted to concentrate on the more extreme sub-genres that were actually receiving a lot of media coverage at the time.

I have those terrible stories about Running With The Devil and therefore still want to read it. Btw it was written by a man, Robert Walser, and not a woman.

Oh shit I got the books confused... the book I was referring to was a completely different one... I can't remember the name for the life of me now. Running With The Devil was another book I read... I never read the entire thing, it was extremely complex and detailed though and specifically concentrated on the musical structures and nothing else. I thought it was a decent book from the first chapter that I read... I was having a hard time following it though haha so incredibly technical in its musical and sociology/media terms.

If it was a book by a female author you were referring to it might have been Heavy Metal: The Music and Its Culture by Deena Weinstein (who was also interviewed in Headbanger's Journey)

I think it was "Metalheads: <something else>" ... pretty sure it wasn't Deena Weinstein.

EDIT: Found it.... Metalheads: Heavy Metal Music and Adolescent Alienation by Jeffrey Jensen Arnett.

Written by [user id=28106] on 07.01.2008 at 16:37

I think it was "Metalheads: <something else>" ... pretty sure it wasn't Deena Weinstein.

damn, now I wanna know which one it was...

was it: Metalheads: Heavy Metal Music and Adolescent Alienation, but also written by a man.

And I guess it was a guy after all haha

Written by [user id=26806] on 06.01.2008 at 17:57

Seriously though, It really depends on where you go. Here in Amsterdam; Metalheads are few and far between but the one's I have met are either in univerisity or work at stage gigs them selfs. And anyway, I honestly don't believe that the wide majority of Metalheads are the social outcasts many of you describe

I agree, it does depend on where you go. I have seen both extremes. Around here, there are a lot of the braindead sort of Metalheads. Likewise, there are a lot of intellectuals who are Metalheads. On one hand you do have the social outcast type who just wants to get drunk and smoke weed all the time. On the other hand you have people who are college professors and church pastors. But my point is that the movie, Metal: A Headbangers Journey, only displayed the William Murderface type.

Written by [user id=26806] on 06.01.2008 at 17:57

Sure, there might be a few sad little fucks about who use metal to feel more depressed and are fucking stupid enough to wan't to go see a piece of shit band like Killswitch Engage, but their obviously from the later generation when true metal was being more and more distanced from the media. And hell, at least what their listening to now is keeping them from comitting suicide(...most of them) and it's also nice to know that Heavy Metal in general helps people that way.

A couple of quick points here. First, if you want people to take you seriously, clean the language up. That statement make you sound like one of those "sad little f*cks" with the way you are writing it. Second, that is your opinion of KsE. Personally, they're one of my favorite bands and have some amazing songs. Most of the intelligent Metalheads I know are more inclined to go see Killswitch than Mayhem any day. Third, if the media and the rest of society thinks Metalheads are stupid wastes of births, that idea must come from somewhere. As the two old guys here stated, just look around this forum, the number of inane and asinine remarks runs rampant.

Written by [user id=26806] on 06.01.2008 at 17:57

Why are we fucking talking about this anyway? Do you people honestly go to Metal concerts to find social equallity? And if not then do you honestly believe that your the only people who go to Metal concerts because you fucking enjoy it?

What we are talking about is the fact the we felt the movie by Sam Dunn showed Metal fans in a not so glamorous light.