I'd have to go with Dimmu Borgir, although I didn't like Death Cult, their albums before that were pretty sick. I like Cradle of Filth too, but they just sound a little overplayed for me.

Dimmu Borgir are good but Cradle Of Filth are one of my favourite bands so i'll go with them.

And I never really got this whole "COF are false bm" thing...They just arn't a black metal band, they don't try to be, and they don't say they are. Some of their older stuff can be considered BM perhaps but even then it was differant from the rest of the genre. A band has to progress otherwise they just get boring. I personally love Cradle, and Nympthetamine isn't as bad as everyone says, it was a hell of a lot better than Damnation and a Day...

Okay rant over

I went with DB hands down, although i like both bands. CoF has a few strong albums, but i have DBs entire discography, and frankly, they progressed and transformed their music into one of the commanding authorities on Medolic Black Metal. Match up band member for band member, and their really is no contest, in either singular talent or synergy between band members. Dont forget, most "CoF Fans" didnt get into them until they heard Damnation and a Day, an album that they were given an overtly huge budget on, and they used it to hire a choir and orchestra to beef up the album overall. I encourage every fan of that album to listen to Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia, and compare/contrast. You'll find that talent shines through instead of just really good production.

And another thing, by what basis can you just label DB as a sellout BM band? is it because they have been around for 13 years and have over 10 cds? or because over the years they evolved their talent as a group and transformed their metal from a raw undeveloped sound to a very unique, distinguishable sound that they have today? help me here people, im lost. Sellout is such a derogitory word, and i maintain that it doesnt quite fit with DB.

Although I am fans of both bands, I prefer Dimmu. Also a friend of mine met Dani Filth one time and he said he was a cunt. Also this same friend was in a record store looking at Cradle records and Nick Barker was in there as well. He came up to my friend and told him not to buy the Cradle record because they were cunts. This was when Nick Barker was still drumming for Cradle!!!!!!!

I like Dimmu Borgir more. They have some really great songs,some of them are even touching musically. Cradle Of Filth has more gothic elements and I never found gothic to be attractive in any way. But CoF has some good songs on earlier records,my favorite from them is "A Gothic Romance". They name of the song is...Whatever,but I like the actual song,the music in it.

Well...I've never liked any of Dimmu Borgir's music after Enthrone Darkness Triumphant, and concerning the shockingly terrible new Cradle of Filth album that is just coming out....I think Cradle won as the sellout. Their new music is NOT AT ALL Cradle of Filth, they are defenitely not black metal in Thornography. Nothing like their best and earlier stuff...my favorite has to be Dusk and Her Embrace. But Thornography is very monotonous and far from reaching what they COULD do; clearly, they've tried to be able to be played on the radio or something. Cradle is definitely the sellout...MUCH more than Dimmu.

And even one of the members in Cradle said in an interview that "We were never black metal...just wore the corpse paint."

Written by [user id=16737] on 01.10.2006 at 05:54

And even one of the members in Cradle said in an interview that "We were never black metal...just wore the corpse paint."

Hmm, well maybe they're trying to distance themselves from it now, but around the time of the first album they certainly considered themselves Black Metal in interviews, and they were considered by others as such. Whatever we think of them now, when Principle came out it was something really unique and special (although it hasn't aged very well).

@Usurpus: That was quite an amusing anecdote!

Written by [user id=16737] on 01.10.2006 at 05:54

And even one of the members in Cradle said in an interview that "We were never black metal...just wore the corpse paint."

I actually provided a link to an old interview in another thread where Dani said that they were a black metal band. I don't feel like searching for it though.

Actually, who cares if CoF are Black metal or not? I know they aren't and I don't care if they are sellouts. I love their music and that's the only thing that matters. And I love Dimmu Borgir, could easely voted for them too but CoF means more to me.

I could care less about selling out bands. I like Dimmu Borgir & i also like Cradle Of Filth, & will never consider them sellouts. Hell i dont even consider Metallica sellouts.

I dont know if this has been posted but here is a interview taken right off of Cradle of Filths site:

2. Would you still consider yourselves a black metal band?
Yes and no. Doesn't really help does it?
Yes in context of retaining the same fire inside as when the band first formed and in pertaining to the atmospherics of the music, no in relation to the narrow-mindedness of the current scene. I mean it used to be much more diverse back in the glory days of Cacophonous, Osmose and Deathlike Silence, what with bands as far-flung as Necromantia (no guitars, just bass), Equimanthorn and Neptune Towers (wierd ambience) right through to Impaled Nazarene (who were kinda punk influenced originally) and Immortal. Now the scene feels a lot like a prison with everyone still trying to retain their purity despite the scene having broken down aeons ago.
We'd rather be known as solely "Cradle Of Filth' i think, rather than be hampered by stupid genre barriers used by 'scenesters' to hem bands in to their own projected ideals.


I dont care if DB or CoF have changed their style, but if anyone has listened to CoF & DB since the start they have really ivolved & also grown a bigger audience. I dont know what else to say only that to me DB & CoF are two great bands which im proud to say im a Fan

I'm a fan of both bands, but I voted Cradle Of Filth.
Are CoF Black Metal actually? No. Are Dimmu Borgir Black Metal actually? Yes.
Are CoF Sellout more than Dimmu Borgir? Yes.
So I had to make a choice... A very hard choice.
I choose Cradle cause I excite myself every time I listen to them, especially the pre-Nymphetamine albums.
Ok, Nymphetamine and Thornography aren't great albums, but all the other albums defeat the entire Dimmu discography, that I love as a girl anyway... Don't kill me for this choice but CoF win!

We are fans of both, but Cradle def has our vote. Dimmu just seems a little fake to us. Plain as that.

Written by [user id=17658] on 09.11.2006 at 17:46

We are fans of both, but Cradle def has our vote. Dimmu just seems a little fake to us. Plain as that.

What do you mean by "we"?

And how does Cradle not seem fake, but Dimmu does? Have you heard new Cradle of Filth?

What we mean by "we" is we are a band only using one username

Well..dont know, we just like Cradle better.
But their new album isn't that good compared to their others buts still pretty good.

I can listen to every Dimmo album, but I like just some CoF records.....so, Dimmu Borgir wins.

Dimmu, cradle of filth is just terrible, atleast dimmu didnt start trying to use clean vocals. they made an attempt to stay true.

dimmu, because youi cant really call cradle black metal! and dimmu did at one point have a true sound, and have at least stayed relatively pure.

"dimmu, because youi cant really call cradle black metal!"

That's your reason?? Cradle Of Filth are NOT black metal period!

I find Dimmu borgir's music,lyrics and vocals better than that of CoF. And i don't think dimmu borgir are great posers as CoF (please correct me if I am wrong anywhere). Dimmu Borgir lyrics are certainly meaningful and easy to understand than CoF lyrics, isn't it? However I don't know about the lyrics of newly released Dimmu Borgir albums. CoF doesn't seem to be much serious in composing quality songs and lyrics. Cof might have a strong fan base, and maybe their albums sell quite a lot because of their large no. of fans; but having a large no. of fans and a high selling rate of albums doesn't always mean that a band has good music and lyrics.Also, I don't like Cof music videos I have watched, especially the video of 'from the Cradle to enslaved'.Cof has released unnecessarily some collection albums, and I think they were good in their initial sound, as in "the Principle of Evil Made Flesh".I don't like Dani's vocals at all.
I like the old Dimmu Borgir. I wish Dimmu Borgir would do something to get rid of the title of 'sellouts' which they have now.

I dont like Dimmu's more recent BM attempts, but I must say, their symphonic passages are addicting IMO.

really I love both bands but as for sellouts i can't agree with that I mean yeah Dimmu was on Ozzfest which is suprising and Cradle being signed on to Roadrunner for there three lastest cds, but all in all the different sounds is a good thing because having a same sound over and over again gets fucking boring

I have another thing to say, if a band starts to sell more cds because of their popularity thats pretty fucking good cause that means they are a badass band, i mean I see tons of Cradle posers all the fucking time who think Nymphetamine is there first cd then I see the people who were Dimmu shit just to look tough so no one will mess with them but really all in allif a band starts selling more cds that means they are good.........not true for a band like Slipknot cause a bunch of emo fuckers randomly started to like Vol. 3, like some of the self-titled and won;t even touch Iowa

Written by [user id=13780] on 23.11.2006 at 06:52

I have another thing to say, if a band starts to sell more cds because of their popularity thats pretty fucking good cause that means they are a badass band, i mean I see tons of Cradle posers all the fucking time who think Nymphetamine is there first cd then I see the people who were Dimmu shit just to look tough so no one will mess with them but really all in allif a band starts selling more cds that means they are good.........not true for a band like Slipknot cause a bunch of emo fuckers randomly started to like Vol. 3, like some of the self-titled and won;t even touch Iowa

You should post that on "Nu metal - a controversial subject", I think your point of view would be fresh there.

Written by [user id=13780] on 23.11.2006 at 06:52

I have another thing to say, if a band starts to sell more cds because of their popularity thats pretty fucking good cause that means they are a badass band, i mean I see tons of Cradle posers all the fucking time who think Nymphetamine is there first cd then I see the people who were Dimmu shit just to look tough so no one will mess with them but really all in allif a band starts selling more cds that means they are good.........not true for a band like Slipknot cause a bunch of emo fuckers randomly started to like Vol. 3, like some of the self-titled and won;t even touch Iowa

Man, this is the biggest pile of shit I've seen in a post in awhile.

I doubt anyone would look tough because of a dimmu shirt. And music can't be graded regarding it's sales, that's stupid.

I wonder though, on what basis are Dimmu and CoF regarded black metal sell-outs. From what i understand, they once played black metal...and now they don't. By that reasoning, i could also call Sentenced a death metal sell-out...I simply don't get it. I don't even consider Metallica to be a thrash sell-out...they simply chose a new direction. One paved by fame and fortune.

Now that that's over with, i'll completely narrow down the talk to the two bands specified in the poll. I voted for this poll a long time ago, but i think i didn't bother to reply. And i don't even remember for whom i voted, but one thing is clear: the bands belong to two sort of different music types, so it's pretty much the same as asking "which do you like more: Vader or Nile?". I like some of Dimmu's older stuff and i like some of their new creations. Don't really fancy the Stormblast remaster though. Every song on the original CD sounded much better. There was a slowish song there that i really really enjoyed and on the remaster i didn't even recognize ANY parts of the song that i liked. That just pisses me off.
I'm more familiar with Cradle of Filth. I think i have heard most of their albums and while i do enjoy their mid-aged songs like "Her Ghost in the Fog" and "Beneath the Howling Stars", i don't mind the stuff they did on Nymphetamine and especially Thornography. Some songs on their latest LP contain extremely annoying parts, but that is not present on all of the songs and they have a nice catchy tune in most of T.'s songs.

So well, taking into account what i just wrote, i think i voted for CoF.

Written by Vunts on 23.11.2006 at 17:05

I wonder though, on what basis are Dimmu regarded black metal sell-outs.

I asked the same question on a previous page, but no one answered. I just don't understand how Dimmu Borgir are sellouts. However, I do think that CoF are massive sellouts, not just because they signed to Roadrunner Records, but because they changed their once distinct and creative sound into generic shitty music. Thornography pretty much defines what it means to be a sellout.

and for the Metallica comment, I think they sold out waaaay before St. Anger, but that's a different conversation.

Well from these two bands of course Cradle Of Filth will be my choise much better sell-outs

Written by Dangerboner on 24.11.2006 at 01:37

Written by Vunts on 23.11.2006 at 17:05

I wonder though, on what basis are Dimmu regarded black metal sell-outs.

I asked the same question on a previous page, but no one answered. I just don't understand how Dimmu Borgir are sellouts. However, I do think that CoF are massive sellouts, not just because they signed to Roadrunner Records, but because they changed their once distinct and creative sound into generic shitty music. Thornography pretty much defines what it means to be a sellout.

and for the Metallica comment, I think they sold out waaaay before St. Anger, but that's a different conversation.

Metallica turned shitty on Master of Puppets and sold out big time on the self-titled fifth album.

Although I don't like any cradle of filth and am not too fond of newer Dimmu neither band sold out. But evolved in a natrual way.

Written by Dangerboner on 24.11.2006 at 01:37

I asked the same question on a previous page, but no one answered. I just don't understand how Dimmu Borgir are sellouts. However, I do think that CoF are massive sellouts, not just because they signed to Roadrunner Records, but because they changed their once distinct and creative sound into generic shitty music. Thornography pretty much defines what it means to be a sellout.

'damanation and a day' is probably cradle's most creative work (though not their best). they did change their approach to music and it is clear that they did this for the sake of gaining more commercial success. however, they show a different style on each album and have remained fresh and creative throughout their career. id say thats better than some bedroom darkthrone-clone releasing the same album of someone elses ideas over and over

haha their last two albums are far from fresh dude. I would disagree that Damnation and a Day is their most creative work, but I didn't consider them selling out when they released that album. They changed their sound (for the worse) back when they released Cruelty and the Beast and it can be argued that they sold out at that point, but I would disagree with that. Yeah, they keep on changing their sound, but since they aren't a Darkthrone clone and made uncompromised, unique music, I don't think they have an excuse for releasing their last two albums.